for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

3 aggressive moves Giants should consider in off-season

Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 2:53 pm
I'll preface by saying that scenarios #2 and #3 are obviously unlikely as trades in the NFL are somewhat of a rarity. My point of this, is that even 1 of these moves would be a major win. Scenario 1 is probably the most possible as they have the $$ to make a play for Jeffery...whether they will is anybody's guess. I think any of these (just 1)of these moves helps the franchise going forward. And is a good "long term" move. Would be interested in people's "serious" thoughts on this.

1) Make a big push and sign Alshon Jeffery. He's a big physical target who is a legit #1 and all pro type receiver if he has a viable QB. He immediately improves the offense by taking pressure of Odell and provides quality and physical blocking on the perimeter which will help the run game. He's the kind of WR that this offense has been missing.

2) Make a trade for a legit left tackle. I'm talking about a Terron Armstead type of player. It looks like there is only 1 maybe 2 legit starting LT's in this year's draft. I broached the subject the other day. He had a pretty serious knee injury this year and was forced to go on IR after week 3 of this year. They had just signed him to a 5 year $65 million contract. No idea how the Saints feel about the performance of their offensive line after he left, and no idea how his recovery has been, but would they consider dealing him for a 1st or 2nd round pick? I would trade our 1st pick of the 2018 draft for him. He's 25 ...could be a major building block and the Giants can afford his contract. They can finally move Flowers to RT or RG. Again, wouldn't be able to get him and Jeffery....1 or the other. Are there any other possible LT's out there that teams might be willing to trade? Teams that are in cap trouble and looking for relief.

3) Trade for Jimmy Garropolo. Its no secret the Giants are thinking about replacing Eli in the next 2-3 years. Brady will probably play longer than Eli, which means New England might be up for dealing him. I'd much rather go for Garropolo vs. any QB that's forecasted in the draft over the next 2 years. He's a great fit for the west coast offense and is in some ways a poor man's Aaron Rogers. Bring him in to be Eli's backup in the 2017, give him an extension and give him the reigns in 2018. Again, I would trade a high 2018 draft pick for him. I think he's that good and would be a great fit for New York.

Thoughts?


Uhhhh  
superspynyg : 1/17/2017 2:55 pm : link
No
No
No


I do not want to trade away our whole draft this year and prob next year for Garapolo and a LT.

Jeffrey is not worth it based on his injury history.
BUT out of those 3 options  
superspynyg : 1/17/2017 2:56 pm : link
singing Jeffrey is best one.
RE: Uhhhh  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13330003 superspynyg said:
Quote:
No
No
No


I do not want to trade away our whole draft this year and prob next year for Garapolo and a LT.

Jeffrey is not worth it based on his injury history.


I'm not talking about trading our draft. But a 1st or 2nd round pick for a 6-9 year starting caliber LT or a potential franchise QB is worth a 1st round pick. See Eli Manning.
.  
Josh in the City : 1/17/2017 2:58 pm : link
Yes
No
No
Armstead?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/17/2017 2:59 pm : link
Quote:


no idea how his recovery has been, but would they consider dealing him for a 1st or 2nd round pick?



This makes no sense Andy..You'd trade a 1 or 2 for him coming off a surgery even the Giants don't know all that much about? Even if they physically check him out, how do they really know how he'll play with the knee..At what level?
I have a feeling the Eagles are gonna make a run  
The_Boss : 1/17/2017 2:59 pm : link
At Alshon. They are in ok cap space ($9.2 million), their GM is aggressive, and they need a WR badly.

With limited options in FA and the draft, JR is going to have to be creative in upgrading our #1 priority: OL.
RE: Armstead?  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13330010 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:


Quote:




no idea how his recovery has been, but would they consider dealing him for a 1st or 2nd round pick?





This makes no sense Andy..You'd trade a 1 or 2 for him coming off a surgery even the Giants don't know all that much about? Even if they physically check him out, how do they really know how he'll play with the knee..At what level?


Obviously his medicals would need to check out...cmon.
Is it really "no secret" that the Giants are "trying" to replace Eli  
regulator : 1/17/2017 3:00 pm : link
in the next 2-3 years? News to me.

I don't realistically see any of these things happening, but you're right in that they'd be awfully aggressive for this team. The Giants would have to pay a king's ransom for a young, upper-echelon LT, which would likely include at least one first round pick, and the Giants do not easily part with those.

Alshon Jeffrey would be a nice pickup, and I agree with the idea of pursuing someone with his skill set. Still, I think it would be a bit of a luxury to invest a lot of $$$ into a FA WR with Beckham's contract coming due in a few years and other glaring needs elsewhere that will cost a premium to fill. Maybe if the contract was structured in such a way that we front-load a lot of the money in the first two years so as to avoid a massive cap hit (or be able to cut without much penalty) if it will take a moonshot to sign Odell.
maybe. no. hell no.  
Victor in CT : 1/17/2017 3:00 pm : link
1) Jeffrey fits the mold physically. Would need to know more about him re the suspension.

2) not trading a #1 for a guy coming off of serious knee surgery

3) Garropolo won't come cheap, and he's already sat for 3 years, so why would he come here and sit for 3 more. Makes no sense at all.
RE: I have a feeling the Eagles are gonna make a run  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13330011 The_Boss said:
Quote:
At Alshon. They are in ok cap space ($9.2 million), their GM is aggressive, and they need a WR badly.

With limited options in FA and the draft, JR is going to have to be creative in upgrading our #1 priority: OL.


LT's are getting harder and harder to find....which is why I think you have to be aggressive and make a trade.
All these Patriot backups  
Beer Man : 1/17/2017 3:00 pm : link
seemed to be over-hyped, get traded for premium draft picks, and go on to be bust.
Garoppolo  
pjcas18 : 1/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
makes no sense.

He's got one year left under contract and then would need to be re-signed while Eli is not cuttable.

then by the time Garoppolo is your starter he's in his 6th year in the NFL.

Doesn't make sense.
RE: maybe. no. hell no.  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13330014 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
1) Jeffrey fits the mold physically. Would need to know more about him re the suspension.

2) not trading a #1 for a guy coming off of serious knee surgery

3) Garropolo won't come cheap, and he's already sat for 3 years, so why would he come here and sit for 3 more. Makes no sense at all.


Victor. The medicals for Armstead would obviously have to be favorable. Garropolo wouldn't sit for 3...he'd sit for 1.
RE: Garoppolo  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13330017 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
makes no sense.

He's got one year left under contract and then would need to be re-signed while Eli is not cuttable.

then by the time Garoppolo is your starter he's in his 6th year in the NFL.

Doesn't make sense.


Would probably be on the hook for Eli's last year....but it is what it is. If he regresses more this year...he's not going to play anyway. The idea would be to bring Garropolo in and sign him to an extension.
RE: Uhhhh  
Elisthebest : 1/17/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13330003 superspynyg said:
Quote:
No
No
No


I do not want to trade away our whole draft this year and prob next year for Garapolo and a LT.

Jeffrey is not worth it based on his injury history.

The chances of anyone not named Eli Manning being the starting QB in 2018 are slim and none. Not to mention that BB would ever do a trade that could potentially help the Giants.
Garoppolo  
pjcas18 : 1/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
cannot really sit for one year.

in 2018 he'd be a UFA and Eli is not cuttable.

So either you franchise Jimmy G at 20M and have ~43M tied up in QB's or you cut Eli for the 9.8M cap savings.

Garoppolo would really need to sit for 2 years to make it work, but then he'd be under contract at high $$ for one on your bench.

Just doesn't work.

I'd rather make a draft day trade for Josh Rosen or a QB like him.

RE: RE: maybe. no. hell no.  
Victor in CT : 1/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13330022 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 13330014 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


1) Jeffrey fits the mold physically. Would need to know more about him re the suspension.

2) not trading a #1 for a guy coming off of serious knee surgery

3) Garropolo won't come cheap, and he's already sat for 3 years, so why would he come here and sit for 3 more. Makes no sense at all.



Victor. The medicals for Armstead would obviously have to be favorable. Garropolo wouldn't sit for 3...he'd sit for 1.


I seriously doubt Eli won't be playing and starting in 2018 for the Giants. Same for 2019 for that matter.
For year 2017 - I don't think there are any legitimate starting LTs  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
in this draft. Maybe a later year with development.

And if there are, this premium position is going single digits in the draft.

I have no problem with moving Flowers, if he is indeed not the LT, but we must not spend to fix a problem which is not a problem if it has been fixed internally.

Alshon Jeffery is the right player, but are we chasing a chimera. Is he really going to be allowed to be a UFA. Clearing that hurdle, are one of the teams that have almost literally no star power going to allow us to sign him for dollars that JR can stomach?

JPP is not worth the sun, moon and stars, but he is worth a star contract. Fact of the matter is that he was a better player than Vernon all year, and my point is not to denigrate OV or his contract. I like the kid from ND, but he is way over-rated at present on this site.
RE: RE: Uhhhh  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13330027 Elisthebest said:
Quote:
In comment 13330003 superspynyg said:


Quote:


No
No
No


I do not want to trade away our whole draft this year and prob next year for Garapolo and a LT.

Jeffrey is not worth it based on his injury history.


The chances of anyone not named Eli Manning being the starting QB in 2018 are slim and none. Not to mention that BB would ever do a trade that could potentially help the Giants.


BB isn't going to be emotional about what team he deals with. Patriots make trades all the time...and they like high draft pick trades.
RE: Garoppolo  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13330029 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
cannot really sit for one year.

in 2018 he'd be a UFA and Eli is not cuttable.

So either you franchise Jimmy G at 20M and have ~43M tied up in QB's or you cut Eli for the 9.8M cap savings.

Garoppolo would really need to sit for 2 years to make it work, but then he'd be under contract at high $$ for one on your bench.

Just doesn't work.

I'd rather make a draft day trade for Josh Rosen or a QB like him.


That's why I'm saying, bring Garroplo in and sign him to an extension right away.
RE: RE: Uhhhh  
njm : 1/17/2017 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13330007 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 13330003 superspynyg said:


Quote:


No
No
No


I do not want to trade away our whole draft this year and prob next year for Garapolo and a LT.

Jeffrey is not worth it based on his injury history.



I'm not talking about trading our draft. But a 1st or 2nd round pick for a 6-9 year starting caliber LT or a potential franchise QB is worth a 1st round pick. See Eli Manning.


A 1st AND a 2nd in this years draft MIGHT get you Garapolo OR an OLT. To get both you'll be discussing 2018 and possible 2019 picks.
RE: RE: Garoppolo  
pjcas18 : 1/17/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13330035 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 13330029 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


cannot really sit for one year.

in 2018 he'd be a UFA and Eli is not cuttable.

So either you franchise Jimmy G at 20M and have ~43M tied up in QB's or you cut Eli for the 9.8M cap savings.

Garoppolo would really need to sit for 2 years to make it work, but then he'd be under contract at high $$ for one on your bench.

Just doesn't work.

I'd rather make a draft day trade for Josh Rosen or a QB like him.




That's why I'm saying, bring Garroplo in and sign him to an extension right away.


I think that's too much money tied up in QB's. I can see the Giants and Eli parting ways in 2019, but not before.

In the 2018 off-season the Giants get their Eli replacement, and I'd be aggressive then whether it's draft trade, whatever (like they were with Eli). Not with a 27 year old "rookie" (which is really what Garoppolo will be in a couple years).
these are all terrible options  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/17/2017 3:14 pm : link
please...
Brutal  
JonC : 1/17/2017 3:15 pm : link
Tres no's.
Jeffery  
pjcas18 : 1/17/2017 3:15 pm : link
wouldn't be a bad move, but I doubt they sign him with the other holes.

I think he'd be a good fit.

injuries main concern.
If Brady plays poorly Sunday  
joeinpa : 1/17/2017 3:21 pm : link
It will be three play off clunkers in a row. Belichick s history shows he s not keeping any player a season too long. I don t think he trades Garopollo
I give you credit for trying to fix the things that are  
The 12th Man : 1/17/2017 3:21 pm : link
some what broken on this team. That said I hate all 3 of these scenarios. No need to trade for a QB that is unproven except for 4 games this year. I believe the last thing we want is to sign a big time WR knowing we still have to sign OBJ. Get a veteran WR that will help OBJ,but not one that has him question what they might do with him. As for the LT I say look at Leary from the Cowboys to help solidify the OL.
No, probably no, no......  
BillKo : 1/17/2017 3:24 pm : link
.....I question the WRs effort (and smarts) when I have watched him play.

Starting LTs are like pitching, you aren't getting one.......except an aging one, which probably still costs too much.

As far as the QB, the asking price is wayyy to high. Plus.....you'll have a player sitting another three years. Better to draft and groom.
holy shit this is an awful thread  
jlukes : 1/17/2017 3:24 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Garoppolo  
Andy in Boston : 1/17/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13330042 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13330035 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


In comment 13330029 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


cannot really sit for one year.

in 2018 he'd be a UFA and Eli is not cuttable.

So either you franchise Jimmy G at 20M and have ~43M tied up in QB's or you cut Eli for the 9.8M cap savings.

Garoppolo would really need to sit for 2 years to make it work, but then he'd be under contract at high $$ for one on your bench.

Just doesn't work.

I'd rather make a draft day trade for Josh Rosen or a QB like him.




That's why I'm saying, bring Garroplo in and sign him to an extension right away.



I think that's too much money tied up in QB's. I can see the Giants and Eli parting ways in 2019, but not before.

In the 2018 off-season the Giants get their Eli replacement, and I'd be aggressive then whether it's draft trade, whatever (like they were with Eli). Not with a 27 year old "rookie" (which is really what Garoppolo will be in a couple years).


and who's to say Eli doesn't take a pay cut at some point? If performance has anything to do with it...he should absolutely take a paycut.
Andy, you're too wedded to your theory.  
Victor in CT : 1/17/2017 3:45 pm : link
1) Garropolo will cost high picks. The Giants still need to fill too many holes to give up high picks for a backup, which is what Garropolo would be for 3 years, despite your protests to the contrary.
2) He's an "old rookie" as others have pointed out
3) also as others have pointed out, Pats backups who get traded generally suck when they leave the Belichick academy.
4) why would Eli take a pay cut when he is still their best option? Which he will be unless he gets seriously injured.
My guess is none of your wishes come true.  
Section331 : 1/17/2017 3:54 pm : link
Alshon Jeffrey will cost a ton, he'll likely be the highest paid WR in FA this year. Given that we will have to pony up a small ransom to resign Odell, I can't see the FO committing that much of the cap to 2 WR's.

NO isn't letting Armstead go. And even if they were, you're going to give up a 1st round pick? How are you getting Garappolo? I think Reese will pursue an OL in FA, and maybe a OLT, but it will be someone at less of a premium.

NE's asking price for Garappolo will start at 2 1st rounders. There are too many needs on the roster to give up premium picks.
Jimmy G played one,  
Doomster : 1/17/2017 4:06 pm : link
I repeat one whole game this year, and for that you are going to give 2 #1's? Crazy....I wouldn't even give one #1 for him.....he is a product of their system, take him out of it and you have another possible Matt Cassel scenario....

I did not like the effort from Alshon in games I saw....

Get a LT? Absolutely.....
Forget the idea of trades  
tomjgiant : 1/17/2017 5:00 pm : link
they are not going to happen.Signing a high priced WR is not going to happen either.
The last thing this offense needs...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/17/2017 5:09 pm : link
is another WR.

Yes, clearly adding talent at WR would make the offense more powerful. But there are much higher priorities.

Let's think about what defenses did to us this year. They dared us to run the ball against their six man fronts. They kept two safeties deep out of respect for our receivers.

How exactly is another WR going to change any of that?

What we need is a way to bring a safety down into the box. We need to show that we can run against six and seven man fronts effectively, so that the 8th man has to come down. Once that happens we already have enough talent to win at WR.

No thanks to a high-dollar WR. Spend your limited budget on fixing the 7 positions on offense that should threaten a six man front.
As others have said, Andy, I think it's a problem to sign a FA  
yatqb : 1/17/2017 5:43 pm : link
like Jeffery with OBJ's contract coming down the line. He'd be too expensive, and is also too injury prone. And there are tons of good receivers in this draft.

And I'd never give up a 1 and 4 for Garoppolo (which the Pats have set as the price) when Eli has at least a few years remaining on the team.



This isn't Madden.  
drkenneth : 1/17/2017 6:41 pm : link
.
As much as we would like Alshon Jeffery in blue  
Jimmy Googs : 1/17/2017 7:56 pm : link
he will cost a ton, and out of our price range for a #2 WR.

Your other two moves are not helpful to the team.



None of those things has even a remote chance of happening.  
Torrag : 1/17/2017 8:02 pm : link
...
RE: The last thing this offense needs...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/17/2017 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13330232 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
is another WR.

Yes, clearly adding talent at WR would make the offense more powerful. But there are much higher priorities.

Let's think about what defenses did to us this year. They dared us to run the ball against their six man fronts. They kept two safeties deep out of respect for our receivers.

How exactly is another WR going to change any of that?

What we need is a way to bring a safety down into the box. We need to show that we can run against six and seven man fronts effectively, so that the 8th man has to come down. Once that happens we already have enough talent to win at WR.

No thanks to a high-dollar WR. Spend your limited budget on fixing the 7 positions on offense that should threaten a six man front.

Dan, that's an excellent point. Upgrading at WR alone is not the panacea. And you're absolutely correct that we need to fix the run game (and, by extension, the OL overall), which will force opposing defenses out of the 2-deep which effectively forces our passing game to stay underneath the zone.

That said, I do believe we need a big, physical receiver (at either WR or TE) to complement Beckham and Shepard. Because if we only solve for the running game and succeed at drawing a safety down into the box (or keeping a 3rd LB on the field), opposing safeties will still roll toward Beckham.

I think we should supplement our WR corps through the draft again (they're just too expensive to buy on the open market). I think Bucky Hodges would be a perfect fit in terms of size, potential and skill set - at a minimum, he's an immediate red zone threat.
Make a trade  
Simms11 : 1/17/2017 8:54 pm : link
for Joe Thomas.....that's who we should be trading for, if we want to be aggressive.
The Browns are so far away  
grizz299 : 1/17/2017 9:27 pm : link
that that alone shoul make Thomas expendable.
Wow Garapolo?  
Carl in CT : 1/17/2017 9:32 pm : link
He is a product of the system. I wouldn't give up more than a 3 or 4 for him. Pass!
RE: The Browns are so far away  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/17/2017 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13330575 grizz299 said:
Quote:
that that alone shoul make Thomas expendable.

And yet they have so much cap room that they have no incentive to trade him except for a legitimate return. He's not an impending free agent and keeping him doesn't impede their ability to sign/re-sign anyone they want.
Eli is entering the last 2 years of his HOF career  
greatgrandpa : 1/17/2017 10:06 pm : link
signing his successor two years early makes no sense from a cap standpoint this off season. Next season yes. I must admit that Mcadoo was disappointing to me this year (yes I am aware of their record). He has a HOF QB, one excellent slot and one great outside receiver. The RBs were OK for the most part (Perkins shined I thought) and the line was decent at pass pro and below average at run blocks. Overall that's enough to work with to score at least 20 points in a game which the team did not average. The defense carried the team and the numbers bear this out. The offense looked uncomfortable and predictable. The defense was aggressive and unpredictable. That can win games in the regular season but not the playoffs. Coaches must take the players they have (although Rainey and Donnell are a mystery as roster places) and work to create mismatches (eg Perkins or Shepard in space). I didn't see that in the offensive game plans. Eli is not very mobile now and next year he will be even less so. They need two maulers G and T, a TE and a workhorse back next season to draw safetys in (which in turn helps Odell and Shep). With their cap room and cuts they can probably get this done and keep one of Hank or JPP. Just my opinion.
I'm not sure what to make of this thread  
Rjanyg : 1/17/2017 10:22 pm : link
Jeffrey has issues staying healthy and didn't he get into trouble with th NFL? He will cost a fortune as well.

Armstead is a talent but trading for him? What will that take? A 1st and 2nd round pick?

Garapolo? Trade again?

We have a couple years before we need to find Eli's transition QB.

When you only have two WR's,  
Doomster : 1/18/2017 11:06 am : link
and no TE's, you don't think this offense needs another WR?

yes, the OL has to be fixed.......but that third go to guy spreads the defensive backfield...Cruz/King/Lewis was a joke that defenses covered with one guy....

If you marginally fix the OL(you can't fix it all), and give Eli more time, if they take away OBj and SS, you still need that third receiver, which we don't have....


This offense is more than a couple of players away, from respectability....one WR won't fix it.....but it is needed...
RE: When you only have two WR's,  
Dan in the Springs : 1/18/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13331034 Doomster said:
Quote:
and no TE's, you don't think this offense needs another WR?


In the NFL - you always need WR. It's just behind the many other needs of the offense. I think you could almost make a case that the bigger need for 2017 is backup QB, and that's saying something.

Back to the Corner