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NFT: Bradley/Chelsea Manning sentence commuted

Dunedin81 : 1/17/2017 4:46 pm
Will be released in May. Julian Assange had pledged to face trial if Manning received clemency, whether or not this commutation will qualify remains to be seen. Refraining from editorial comment but it is a consequential story.
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How can we be taken seriously about national security  
buford : 1/17/2017 6:42 pm : link
and hacking and Russia/Wikileaks? Absurd.

Also the commutation of meth and crack dealers who had gun charges on their sheets. I guess we don't care about gun violence either.
Saves the military the costs  
HomerJones45 : 1/17/2017 7:07 pm : link
of multiple surgeries, drug costs and psychological care and the lawsuit when the suicide succeeds.

I wouldn't count on any of these outside friends footing the bill for any of this. Manning out of jail is no longer useful to any of them.
Well Wikileaks  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/17/2017 7:16 pm : link
Said Assange would agree to US extradition.

Let's see if that weasel lives up to his promise. I wouldn't hold my breath.
RE: Well Wikileaks  
Deej : 1/17/2017 7:36 pm : link
In comment 13330367 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Said Assange would agree to US extradition.

Let's see if that weasel lives up to his promise. I wouldn't hold my breath.


There are no charges against him in the U.S.
The Cartwright pardon was arguably more consequential...  
Dunedin81 : 1/17/2017 7:41 pm : link
As for Manning, folks who lionize this piece of crap as some sort of standard bearer for transparency are ridiculous. Even the most hardcore libertarian generally understands that clandestine operations undertaken in war, and the individuals we partner with to accomplish them, should remain secret.
Deej, I'm aware  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/17/2017 7:42 pm : link
But Wikileaks tweeted this out on the 12th:

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case

I'd love for him to be sent to Sweden.
They were just discussing this on the news ...  
Beer Man : 1/17/2017 7:44 pm : link
One of the interesting points made was that it would now be difficult to prosecute Julian Assange. The reasoning was that if you give a free pass to the guy that stole national secrets, can you do much more to the guy that published them.
RE: Deej, I'm aware  
Deej : 1/17/2017 7:45 pm : link
In comment 13330388 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But Wikileaks tweeted this out on the 12th:

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case

I'd love for him to be sent to Sweden.


Well Wikileaks/Assange are full of shit then. The DoJ's case doesnt exist and is therefore not unconstitutional. It struggle to understand what he could be charged with.
RE: Manning's sentence was absurdly long  
section125 : 1/17/2017 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13330326 NYerInMA said:
Quote:
Glad to see she's getting a break.


As opposed to capital punishment? Right. 35 years for leaking info that the Taliban used to kill informants, people thought to be informants (fit the description) and others.
The President kinda crapping on the recent wikileaks complaints, no?

Releasing low level non-violent drug offenders is one thing. Commuting this POS's sentence is another.
RE: Well Wikileaks  
BillKo : 1/17/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13330367 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Said Assange would agree to US extradition.

Let's see if that weasel lives up to his promise. I wouldn't hold my breath.


Correction, let's see if that complete douchbag continues to lie, or comes clean.
Eli must be so happy!  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2017 7:49 pm : link
Congratulations to the whole Manning family!
I think Bill L nailed it  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/17/2017 7:55 pm : link
seriously, I'm OK with it. She needs to go away.
And it's worth it to put Assange to the test  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/17/2017 7:56 pm : link
'
I thought  
blueblood'11 : 1/17/2017 7:58 pm : link
Political threads were frowned upon in BBI? Having said that I have no comment on the subject. Too add to that our politics are enough to make all Americans sick.
RE: Snowden was a helluva lot more of a whistleblower than Manning  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13330311 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Manning simply released a shitload of classified material indiscriminately because he was pissy about the army not accommodating his gender change.

Ultimately I'd suggest that Manning got a commutation while Snowden didn't get a pardon because Manning embarrassed the Bush administration while Snowden embarrassed Obama's.



+2
Snowden can't get a pardon  
eclipz928 : 1/17/2017 8:15 pm : link
because he hasn't even been prosecuted yet. If he didn't run off to Russia, of all places, he probably would have caught a break.
Don't forget the domestic terrorist who also got a pass  
weeg in the bronx : 1/17/2017 8:16 pm : link
Oscar Rivera. Manson next?
RE: Snowden can't get a pardon  
Greg from LI : 1/17/2017 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13330432 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
because he hasn't even been prosecuted yet. If he didn't run off to Russia, of all places, he probably would have caught a break.


You don't have to be prosecuted to be pardoned.
RE: RE: Deej, I'm aware  
section125 : 1/17/2017 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13330393 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13330388 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


But Wikileaks tweeted this out on the 12th:

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case

I'd love for him to be sent to Sweden.



Well Wikileaks/Assange are full of shit then. The DoJ's case doesnt exist and is therefore not unconstitutional. It struggle to understand what he could be charged with.


Probably (similar to possessing stolen goods) publishing national secrets; holding or accepting secret information. Publishing classified or secret is a crime.
This is absolutely disgraceful........  
Dry Lightning : 1/17/2017 9:16 pm : link
What could be the possible motivation to release such traitorous vermin? A sick decision which is a deliberate slight to all good, loyal Americans, but especially those brave people who gave their lives to protect the secrets that this disturbed piece of shit gave away.
so upset about leaking  
bbfanva : 1/17/2017 9:26 pm : link
to Wikileaks.. that he rewards the most damaging leaker he could find.
RE: This is absolutely disgraceful........  
Sec 103 : 1/17/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13330545 Dry Lightning said:
Quote:
What could be the possible motivation to release such traitorous vermin? A sick decision which is a deliberate slight to all good, loyal Americans, but especially those brave people who gave their lives to protect the secrets that this disturbed piece of shit gave away.

+1
RE: RE: RE: Deej, I'm aware  
montanagiant : 1/17/2017 11:49 pm : link
In comment 13330440 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13330393 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13330388 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


But Wikileaks tweeted this out on the 12th:

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case

I'd love for him to be sent to Sweden.



Well Wikileaks/Assange are full of shit then. The DoJ's case doesnt exist and is therefore not unconstitutional. It struggle to understand what he could be charged with.



Probably (similar to possessing stolen goods) publishing national secrets; holding or accepting secret information. Publishing classified or secret is a crime.

He claims the US is wanting to charge him with espionage or other serious crimes for releasing top secret info. This could get interesting if he does it come here after Friday and how or new Prez handles it
RE: Snowden was a helluva lot more of a whistleblower than Manning  
RC02XX : 1/17/2017 11:52 pm : link
In comment 13330311 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Manning simply released a shitload of classified material indiscriminately because he was pissy about the army not accommodating his gender change.

Ultimately I'd suggest that Manning got a commutation while Snowden didn't get a pardon because Manning embarrassed the Bush administration while Snowden embarrassed Obama's.


There was absolutely nothing whistleblower about Snowden. He was driven by ego and as much pissiness about his lowly situation as a burning altruistic. And of all the data he stole and leaked, less than 5% had anything to do with domestic collection. He divulged far more damaging intelligence to our adversaries than Manning did. And same goes for Cartwright, who should have known better and also divulged some of the most sophisticated capability information in the name of playing the game in the national capitol region with anonymously sharing information with journalists.

As far as Manning goes, she was absolutely wrong in her nativity and disturbed rationalizing of her actions. But I am far less bothered by her commutation than about Cartwright. And fuck Snowden.
RE: RE: This is absolutely disgraceful........  
montanagiant : 1/18/2017 12:22 am : link
In comment 13330574 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 13330545 Dry Lightning said:


Quote:


What could be the possible motivation to release such traitorous vermin? A sick decision which is a deliberate slight to all good, loyal Americans, but especially those brave people who gave their lives to protect the secrets that this disturbed piece of shit gave away.


+1

So be worth it to you guys then if Assange lives up to his word and comes in to the USA. Wikileaks has divulged 1000's times more secret info
Deej this is purely off my memory but wasn't there  
bhill410 : 1/18/2017 12:35 am : link
A fair amount of legislation or talk at the time of charging foreign citizens for violating our laws of posting classified documents on servers that availed themselves to the US public. I say that because I remember thinking that seemed a bit of a reach and frankly a bit arrogant by the US. However I want to say it has manifested itself in several other areas such as copyright in recent years. I suppose to a certain extent it's not inconsistent with prosecuting under the fcpa or U.K. Bribery act in that you are going after people for conduct occurring in other jurisdictions (specifically U.K. Bribery where you don't even need to be a U.K. Company or have a U.K. Office).
My comment should have said...  
RC02XX : 1/18/2017 12:44 am : link
Nothing altruistic.

Damn autocorrect.
RE: This is absolutely disgraceful........  
huygens20 : 1/18/2017 1:56 am : link
In comment 13330545 Dry Lightning said:
Quote:
What could be the possible motivation to release such traitorous vermin? A sick decision which is a deliberate slight to all good, loyal Americans, but especially those brave people who gave their lives to protect the secrets that this disturbed piece of shit gave away.


Good loyal Americans do not indiscriminately launch drone strikes that accrue immense collateral damage.

This is something that Obama had to go in and completely fix.
RE: The Cartwright pardon was arguably more consequential...  
huygens20 : 1/18/2017 2:00 am : link
In comment 13330384 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
As for Manning, folks who lionize this piece of crap as some sort of standard bearer for transparency are ridiculous. Even the most hardcore libertarian generally understands that clandestine operations undertaken in war, and the individuals we partner with to accomplish them, should remain secret.


You cannot go around canoeing people on the battlefield without consequences.

Bush learned that with Manning
And Obama will learn it soon.
I believe this is a disgrace  
The 12th Man : 1/18/2017 12:00 pm : link
so now we are commuting people who give away our secrets. Just wait 2 days left for more drug dealers and spys to get released from jail.
I'm most disturbed about the commutation of Rivera's  
Section331 : 1/18/2017 12:41 pm : link
sentence. That POS's actions led to the deaths of a number of innocent people. Similar to how GHWB pardoned that POS Orlando Bosch.

Manning deserved to serve time, but 35 years was extreme imo.
RE: I'm most disturbed about the commutation of Rivera's  
buford : 1/18/2017 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13331203 Section331 said:
Quote:
sentence. That POS's actions led to the deaths of a number of innocent people. Similar to how GHWB pardoned that POS Orlando Bosch.

Manning deserved to serve time, but 35 years was extreme imo.


Extreme? He took a plea to escape treason charges and a death sentence. He got off easy. And he would have been eligible for parole.
RE: My comment should have said...  
BMac : 1/18/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13330686 RC02XX said:
Quote:
Nothing altruistic.

Damn autocorrect.


I thought you were very altruistic.
To the surprise of no one...  
Dunedin81 : 1/18/2017 1:47 pm : link
Assange says the commutation does not meet his criteria and will not surrender himself.
Link - ( New Window )
It's so precious to see  
Mr. Bungle : 1/18/2017 1:55 pm : link
how some posters need to cram the masculine pronoun into a post as many times as possible.
RE: It's so precious to see  
Dunedin81 : 1/18/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13331395 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
how some posters need to cram the masculine pronoun into a post as many times as possible.


It's also precious to see that people are more concerned about Manning's gender decision than about national security and the lives his disclosures put at risk.
RE: RE: It's so precious to see  
Mr. Bungle : 1/18/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13331402 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 13331395 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


how some posters need to cram the masculine pronoun into a post as many times as possible.



It's also precious to see that people are more concerned about Manning's gender decision than about national security and the lives his disclosures put at risk.

Please point out who is.
Manning and Snowden aren't the same  
Heisenberg : 1/18/2017 2:06 pm : link
Manning had lower clearance and stuck around for prosecution.

Snowden had a higher level of clearance and ran to fucking Russia.
Bradley Manning leak did not result in deaths by enemy forces, court hears - ( New Window )
But that's not what that said...  
Dunedin81 : 1/18/2017 2:14 pm : link
that testimony didn't say nobody died as a result, it said they couldn't specifically identify someone whose death was attributable to Manning. It's also in their interest to minimize the fallout of a leak like this.
RE: RE: It's so precious to see  
The 12th Man : 1/18/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13331402 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 13331395 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


how some posters need to cram the masculine pronoun into a post as many times as possible.



It's also precious to see that people are more concerned about Manning's gender decision than about national security and the lives his disclosures put at risk.


Bingo! You nailed it right on the head! If this individual was not a transgender he would not be commuting the sentence.
I'm more concerned that  
Beer Man : 1/18/2017 2:21 pm : link
we may see a pardon for Bo Bergdahl.
RE: RE: RE: It's so precious to see  
Dunedin81 : 1/18/2017 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13331434 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13331402 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


In comment 13331395 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


how some posters need to cram the masculine pronoun into a post as many times as possible.



It's also precious to see that people are more concerned about Manning's gender decision than about national security and the lives his disclosures put at risk.



Bingo! You nailed it right on the head! If this individual was not a transgender he would not be commuting the sentence.


I have no opinion on that. I'm talking about the commentary, here and elsewhere.
The President is on saying the sentence  
The 12th Man : 1/18/2017 2:35 pm : link
she received was a tough sentence. He made sure he used the pro-noun she several times. This is a disgrace what he has done. Military people must be sick to their stomach over this decision. Even his Secy of Defense is against this.

He also said he does not pay much attention to Assange's tweets. Yeah now that the election is over he could care less.
RE: I'm more concerned that  
njm : 1/18/2017 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13331440 Beer Man said:
Quote:
we may see a pardon for Bo Bergdahl.


Considering that there is no doubt that soldiers were killed and wounded in the search for him that would surpass Marc Rich as the most egregious abuse of the pardon power in my lifetime.
RE: RE: I'm more concerned that  
Dunedin81 : 1/18/2017 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13331477 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13331440 Beer Man said:


Quote:


we may see a pardon for Bo Bergdahl.



Considering that there is no doubt that soldiers were killed and wounded in the search for him that would surpass Marc Rich as the most egregious abuse of the pardon power in my lifetime.


Officially the posture is the same as with Manning, "no evidence that...." but unofficially a number of individuals have named people whose deaths are indirectly attributable to the hunt for him. The difference is that with Manning you're talking about sources and partners, much of that is going to be classified or the consequences difficult to attribute, so you're not likely to have people jumping up and down and saying otherwise.
RE: RE: RE: I'm more concerned that  
RC02XX : 1/18/2017 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13331495 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
Officially the posture is the same as with Manning, "no evidence that...." but unofficially a number of individuals have named people whose deaths are indirectly attributable to the hunt for him. The difference is that with Manning you're talking about sources and partners, much of that is going to be classified or the consequences difficult to attribute, so you're not likely to have people jumping up and down and saying otherwise.


Eh...who knows what happened as result of Manning's actions. It's all speculations with regards to his impact on sources, etc. I'm sure our own actions (or inactions) with regards to how we just used and discarded many of our local interpreters in Iraq and Afghanistan resulted in more people (who helped us out) getting killed than any action Manning took. What most likely resulted from Manning's actions was it gave our military, agencies, and foreign policy black eyes to the public and our foreign partners.
RE: RE: I'm more concerned that  
bradshaw44 : 1/18/2017 3:29 pm : link
In comment 13331477 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13331440 Beer Man said:


Quote:


we may see a pardon for Bo Bergdahl.



Considering that there is no doubt that soldiers were killed and wounded in the search for him that would surpass Marc Rich as the most egregious abuse of the pardon power in my lifetime.


I bet he does get pardoned. And the argument is that there is no proof that anyone was injured directly while searching for him.
RE: RE: RE: I'm more concerned that  
njm : 1/18/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13331549 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:


I bet he does get pardoned. And the argument is that there is no proof that anyone was injured directly while searching for him.


I'd say the odds are against it.
I don't think Bergdahl gets pardoned  
Greg from LI : 1/18/2017 4:07 pm : link
.
RE: Manning and Snowden aren't the same  
Beer Man : 1/18/2017 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13331413 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Manning had lower clearance and stuck around for prosecution.

Snowden had a higher level of clearance and ran to fucking Russia. Bradley Manning leak did not result in deaths by enemy forces, court hears - ( New Window )
Snowden was never going to get a pardon from this President anyway. Obama was pissed that the guy let the cat out of the bag about the NSA program to collect phone record meta-data on all Americans.
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