Tim Raines, in his 10th and final year of eligibility, appears likely to gain election along with Jeff Bagwell when the Baseball Writers' Association of America voting is announced Wednesday night. Ivan Rodriguez, eligible for the first time, and Trevor Hoffman also could make it.
But along with focusing on the electees, many will study the vote totals of tainted stars Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
Bonds, a seven-time MVP who holds the season and career home run records, received 36.2 percent in his initial appearance, in 2013, and 44.3 percent last year. Clemens, a seven-time Cy Young Award winner, has risen from 37.6 percent in 2013 to 45.2 percent last year.
This year, Bonds was on 63.2 percent of the 234 ballots obtained by Ryan Thibodaux and posted on his Hall of Fame vote-tracker, and Clemens was on 62.4 percent. That is just over half the expected total, so both project likely to fall short of the 75 percent needed.
Manny Ramirez, however, appears to be viewed differently.
Suspended twice for drug violations after testing with penalties began in 2004, he was tracking at 23.9 percent in his first ballot appearance. Lonk - ( New Window )
He wasn't a HOFer in his first 9 years of eligibility, but all of a sudden is in his 10th (and final) year?
Bonds and Clemens will (unfortunately) get in next year. Verducci was on Dan Patrick this morning and said that of the 12 first year voters this year, ELEVEN voted for both guys.
The new guard (rightly or wrongly) just doesn't give two shits about PED's
He wasn't a HOFer in his first 9 years of eligibility, but all of a sudden is in his 10th (and final) year?
Bonds and Clemens will (unfortunately) get in next year. Verducci was on Dan Patrick this morning and said that of the 12 first year voters this year, ELEVEN voted for both guys.
The new guard (rightly or wrongly) just doesn't give two shits about PED's
Didn't Rice get in his last year on the ballot? It's stupid. I can see leaving a guy off if you use up your 10 spots on more worthy players and then voting for the guy the next time if you have the room, but Jim Rice is a clear case of people (not sure who, specific media people like Gammons?) lobbying for a player who probably is deserving of the hall of good, not the hall of fame.
Clemens and Bonds are Hall of Famers. They deserve to be in and eventually they will be. If Bagwell and Raines go in how the hell can you keep Bonds out?
Advanced Metrics: Borderline HOFer at best Eye Test: One of the scariest hitters I've ever seen and No Doubt 1st ballot
I definitely believe that advanced metrics tell you A LOT when it comes to baseball. But Vlad is a guy who is clearly not a Hall of Famer if you just look at the metrics.
But when I have kids, I'm going to tell them about the guy who could hit anything within 10ft of the strike zone. The guy who could turn a liner to RF into a bang-bang play at 1st base with his cannon of an arm.
Vlad really makes me question my principles and feel like a hypocrite. I shit on the voters who put Jim Rice in despite his far from HOF numbers because "he was so scary at the plate". And now I feel the same way as they did about Vlad.
Advanced Metrics: Borderline HOFer at best
Eye Test: One of the scariest hitters I've ever seen and No Doubt 1st ballot
I definitely believe that advanced metrics tell you A LOT when it comes to baseball. But Vlad is a guy who is clearly not a Hall of Famer if you just look at the metrics.
But when I have kids, I'm going to tell them about the guy who could hit anything within 10ft of the strike zone. The guy who could turn a liner to RF into a bang-bang play at 1st base with his cannon of an arm.
Vlad really makes me question my principles and feel like a hypocrite. I shit on the voters who put Jim Rice in despite his far from HOF numbers because "he was so scary at the plate". And now I feel the same way as they did about Vlad.
Here is the link to Ryan Thibodeaux's updated excel with all pubicly available ballots
[url]https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!8063&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AAAsz3uDsmqy_Vw[/url]
I also recommend this annual HOF podcast between Joe Posnanski (whom I consider the best sportswriter in America) and Michael Schur (KenTremendous from Fire Joe Morgan, showrunner and "Mose" of The Office, creator/showrunner of Parks and Recreation and The Good Place)
I disagree. Bagwell was a more dominant player and perhaps the fifth best first baseman of all-time after Gehrig, Musial, Fox, and Pujols, with Pujols being the only other first baseman to play in the last 50 years.
I disagree. Bagwell was a more dominant player and perhaps the fifth best first baseman of all-time after Gehrig, Musial, Fox, and Pujols, with Pujols being the only other first baseman to play in the last 50 years.
Again, I am not a an advanced stat guy.... but you would take bags over Frank Thomas? Thats a tough sell for me.
I disagree. Bagwell was a more dominant player and perhaps the fifth best first baseman of all-time after Gehrig, Musial, Fox, and Pujols, with Pujols being the only other first baseman to play in the last 50 years.
I'm sure my father would go after you for saying Bagwell was better than McCovey who played in Candlestick.
Thomas and Bagwell are inextricably linked and I find it absurd that they weren't inducted in the same year and beyond absurd that Biggio went in first.
As far as Thomas vs. Bagwell-- both were fantastic offensive players. But Frank Thomas only played 970 games at first (~6 full seasons) whereas Bagwell played 2111 games at first (~13 full seasons).
Thomas and Bagwell are inextricably linked and I find it absurd that they weren't inducted in the same year and beyond absurd that Biggio went in first.
As far as Thomas vs. Bagwell-- both were fantastic offensive players. But Frank Thomas only played 970 games at first (~6 full seasons) whereas Bagwell played 2111 games at first (~13 full seasons).
I believe Bags would have been a DH too in the AL. Wasnt Bags the one who couldnt throw the ball to save his life?
I never saw McCovey play, but looking at his numbers, it seems that he lacked the consistency that Bagwell had and he rated worse defensively (but again I never saw him play). There is also a huge difference in their stolen base numbers.
I know I may be in the minority, but I'm a rockythompson fan...aside from turning into a raving lunatic any time the Yankees come up, always thought he was good people
Oh, and Piazza was on the juice since he was in the minors. Sam Champion can tell you about his roid rages
via advanced metrics? His WAR is at least in the wheelhouse (if a little low - albeit with a shorter career than many above him), his OPS certainly rates, his OPS+ is again in the wheelhouse, for a time he was a threat on the bases, he's a career .318 hitter, an MVP with 4 top-4 finishes and a 6th place finish during the most impressive offensive era in league history. His bat is HOF-caliber, his arm was fearsome, the real black mark is his defense after Age 30 (when he was largely a DH anyway).
Dune, Jaffe lays out the advanced stats case on Guerrero here
Basically, while he could steal bases he wasn't an efficient thief over his career, and despite his incredible arm he was a poor RF overall who also DHed for a big chunk of his career.
As I tend to be skeptical of WAR due to its heavy reliance on questionable defensive metrics, I think Vlad belongs. His performance at the plate was good enough to merit induction. Link - ( New Window )
that Raines and Bagwell will get in. I'm surprised that no one cares about the PED questions surrounding Pudge whose career arc and massive weight loss offer far more evidence of doping than say Piazza or Bagwell.
And while I'm disappointed that Edgar and Mussina won't get elected this season, I like that they are trending in the right direction. At least it indicates that Edgar will likely get in before Ortiz gets in and that voters will recognize how obviously deserving Mussina is.
Who turned the other way when PEDs took over the sport, it would be hypocritical to keep the players out he used to improve baseball's financial standing and popularity
but nobody knows what to make of Coors. It seemed like every year in that era the Rockies had 3 guys hitting 40 HRs, or at least 3 guys hitting 30 HRs, including guys like Helton, Bichette, Vinny Castilla and Gallaraga posting near-Hall of Fame numbers (hell, Preston bleeping Wilson hit 36 HRs). I don't think there is anything profoundly irrational about being a little timid, but at the end of the day he belongs.
that Raines and Bagwell will get in. I'm surprised that no one cares about the PED questions surrounding Pudge whose career arc and massive weight loss offer far more evidence of doping than say Piazza or Bagwell.
Pudge was on that crazy Rangers team with Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro and I believe Canseco. Thst team was so blown up it was sponsored by Michelin.
Walker was breaking out in Montreal before going to the Rockies
His last season as an Expo, 1994 (shortened, obviously), he posted a .322/.394/.587 line in 103 games. Of course Coors boosted his numbers, but I believe he would have been terrific anywhere. Unlike, say, Bichette. He also had a great all-around game.
What probably hurts him the most is that, like Bernie Williams, he had a bunch of nagging injuries over the years and generally missed at least 20-30 games most seasons. His counting stats aren't as impressive as you'd think for that reason.
this process will look very different starting next year
when each of these "voters" has to publish their list. I'm going to love watching some of these homers get flayed publicly when they don't vote for Rivera or Jeter the first go around.
See you in the funny papers Rog.
Though it sounds like Bonds/Clemens will be elected in 2018/19 if they keep trending.
Bonds and Clemens will (unfortunately) get in next year. Verducci was on Dan Patrick this morning and said that of the 12 first year voters this year, ELEVEN voted for both guys.
The new guard (rightly or wrongly) just doesn't give two shits about PED's
Nerd it up
Bonds and Clemens will (unfortunately) get in next year. Verducci was on Dan Patrick this morning and said that of the 12 first year voters this year, ELEVEN voted for both guys.
The new guard (rightly or wrongly) just doesn't give two shits about PED's
Didn't Rice get in his last year on the ballot? It's stupid. I can see leaving a guy off if you use up your 10 spots on more worthy players and then voting for the guy the next time if you have the room, but Jim Rice is a clear case of people (not sure who, specific media people like Gammons?) lobbying for a player who probably is deserving of the hall of good, not the hall of fame.
:(
rockythompson
I think it's been confirmed that it's Seths wife, actually
No, it's the sixtysomething year old child, Rocky Thompson
Eye Test: One of the scariest hitters I've ever seen and No Doubt 1st ballot
I definitely believe that advanced metrics tell you A LOT when it comes to baseball. But Vlad is a guy who is clearly not a Hall of Famer if you just look at the metrics.
But when I have kids, I'm going to tell them about the guy who could hit anything within 10ft of the strike zone. The guy who could turn a liner to RF into a bang-bang play at 1st base with his cannon of an arm.
Vlad really makes me question my principles and feel like a hypocrite. I shit on the voters who put Jim Rice in despite his far from HOF numbers because "he was so scary at the plate". And now I feel the same way as they did about Vlad.
Eye Test: One of the scariest hitters I've ever seen and No Doubt 1st ballot
I definitely believe that advanced metrics tell you A LOT when it comes to baseball. But Vlad is a guy who is clearly not a Hall of Famer if you just look at the metrics.
But when I have kids, I'm going to tell them about the guy who could hit anything within 10ft of the strike zone. The guy who could turn a liner to RF into a bang-bang play at 1st base with his cannon of an arm.
Vlad really makes me question my principles and feel like a hypocrite. I shit on the voters who put Jim Rice in despite his far from HOF numbers because "he was so scary at the plate". And now I feel the same way as they did about Vlad.
I would take Vlad in my HOF before Jeff Bagwell.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18473918/transparency-make-hall-fame-voting-whole-new-game
Here is the link to Ryan Thibodeaux's updated excel with all pubicly available ballots
[url]https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!8063&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AAAsz3uDsmqy_Vw[/url]
You can follow his updates on Twitter https://twitter.com/NotMrTibbs
I also recommend this annual HOF podcast between Joe Posnanski (whom I consider the best sportswriter in America) and Michael Schur (KenTremendous from Fire Joe Morgan, showrunner and "Mose" of The Office, creator/showrunner of Parks and Recreation and The Good Place)
http://joeposnanski.com/the-hall-of-fame-poscast//
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jposnanski
Here is a FiveThirtyEight article discussing Thib's data as it pertains to Clemens and Bonds
Barry Bonds And Roger Clemens Are Benefiting From Public Hall Of Fame Ballots
Again, I am not a an advanced stat guy.... but you would take bags over Frank Thomas? Thats a tough sell for me.
Cruzin is rockythompson.
I'm sure my father would go after you for saying Bagwell was better than McCovey who played in Candlestick.
As far as Thomas vs. Bagwell-- both were fantastic offensive players. But Frank Thomas only played 970 games at first (~6 full seasons) whereas Bagwell played 2111 games at first (~13 full seasons).
As far as Thomas vs. Bagwell-- both were fantastic offensive players. But Frank Thomas only played 970 games at first (~6 full seasons) whereas Bagwell played 2111 games at first (~13 full seasons).
I believe Bags would have been a DH too in the AL. Wasnt Bags the one who couldnt throw the ball to save his life?
Quote:
Is Cruzin Seth?
Cruzin is rockythompson.
How did I miss this? Hey rockyt!
I know I may be in the minority, but I'm a rockythompson fan...aside from turning into a raving lunatic any time the Yankees come up, always thought he was good people
Oh, and Piazza was on the juice since he was in the minors. Sam Champion can tell you about his roid rages
As I tend to be skeptical of WAR due to its heavy reliance on questionable defensive metrics, I think Vlad belongs. His performance at the plate was good enough to merit induction.
Link - ( New Window )
And while I'm disappointed that Edgar and Mussina won't get elected this season, I like that they are trending in the right direction. At least it indicates that Edgar will likely get in before Ortiz gets in and that voters will recognize how obviously deserving Mussina is.
Here's a good breakdown arguing that if you vote for Vlad, you have to vote for Walker.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-you-vote-for-vlad-you-have-to-vote-for-walker/ - ( New Window )
Pudge was on that crazy Rangers team with Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro and I believe Canseco. Thst team was so blown up it was sponsored by Michelin.
What probably hurts him the most is that, like Bernie Williams, he had a bunch of nagging injuries over the years and generally missed at least 20-30 games most seasons. His counting stats aren't as impressive as you'd think for that reason.
Hell, they let Ruth in, after eating all those hot dogs....