many of you were all over Jordan Raanan for suggesting the Giants were only carrying over 1.8M and saying they had $11M to carry over, does anyone have a source that shows $11M?
This graphic from the NFLPA seems to support Jordan.
Holy crap too, look at SF, JAX, and TEN, high draft picks, tons of space carried over, things in the NFL can turn around quickly.
Link to NFLPA twitter - (
New Window )
Now, the Jags/Titans are in good shape as they seemed to have hit on some good young players the last few seasons and are starting to form solid cores. If they make a few good FA signings, they could be the 2017 Raiders, though the jury is still out on whether Bortles is a legit NFL QB.
It was both IIRC.
OTC now has the Giants projected at around 23M for 2017 and I could have sworn it was 32M a couple days ago, I wonder if the Giants had a transaction.
the Redskins are projected on OTC to have around $60M in cap space.
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
The minimum is league wide and it's "cash" spent rather than "cap dollars". Overthecap has some articles on the difference between these terms.
Google it, There is a floor, but it's complicated, the salary floor is a cash floor, not cap, and it's an average of a few years (this years cap is expected to be $170M FYI) and you need to spend 89% of the cash floor over the prior 3 years or something like that.
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
I wasn't saying he broke anything. I was saying he reported it, and posters on here criticized him for being wrong.
Link - ( New Window )
If they don't specifically cover the Giants then they automatically hate the giants.
It's actually pathetic.
A couple teams tanking for a season or two and then using the assets (high picks/extra cap space) to rebuild and turn things around is preferable to overpaying for aging/declining talent and still being shitty.
I saw that, but I wasn't sure where the money even goes. Does the penalty, if there even is one, go to the NFLPA in general? retired players fund? seems like a very soft floor with no real ramifications.
What I interpreted in regards to Raanan's numbers is that he is accurate for the most part, he is just not adding in the "estimated cap" for next year he is doing it with the current cap. (its projected to increase by at least 10 million)
sportrac.. cap coarryover is on the bottom. - ( New Window )
Always good to see you back..Hopefully for longer periods..Quick question: IYO, do we have a legit shot at keeping both Hankins and JPP(even with a possible top 3-5 DE contract) and would that be a problem moving forward in wrapping up Pugh et al? Do you prefer either of Hankins or JPP if we only opted to keep one? Finally, Impact on signing a Zeitler for example and a solid TE?
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
Yes, that is listed publicly, but you have to remember, the Giants are apparently required to file all contracts directly with Raanan, so this information that's available to the great unwashed like us can't possibly be as valuable.
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This is common/public knowledge. Ranaan didn't break anything. It's available for free for anyone that wants to know about it.
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
Yes, that is listed publicly, but you have to remember, the Giants are apparently required to file all contracts directly with Raanan, so this information that's available to the great unwashed like us can't possibly be as valuable.
Seriously, you guys are funny. I posted the public link for people on this site yesterday. And people still didn't want to believe me.
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In comment 13331323 Optimus-NY said:
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This is common/public knowledge. Ranaan didn't break anything. It's available for free for anyone that wants to know about it.
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
Yes, that is listed publicly, but you have to remember, the Giants are apparently required to file all contracts directly with Raanan, so this information that's available to the great unwashed like us can't possibly be as valuable.
Seriously, you guys are funny. I posted the public link for people on this site yesterday. And people still didn't want to believe me.
LOL. busted by the man himself. you take more crap on here than you deserve, at least IMO. but as someone else said Giants fans are harder on the media for some reason than most fans.
And an entire team save for 3-4 players. ANd a change in culture. They always have cap space.
OTC is more accurate in my experience than sport trac.
In the end I don't care who is right, if I had to pick it's whoever says the Giants have the most space.
but at some point a source will be right and the Giants will conduct transactions.
Can't sign everyone you want.
I ask that because I could have sworn with jtgiants started his thread, that OTC had the Giants with 34M in projected cap space for 2017 and today they have them projected at 23M.
could explain the difference.
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The penalty is only for not reaching the minimum cash spending floor. The penalty is monetary and nothing more.
Always good to see you back..Hopefully for longer periods..Quick question: IYO, do we have a legit shot at keeping both Hankins and JPP(even with a possible top 3-5 DE contract) and would that be a problem moving forward in wrapping up Pugh et al? Do you prefer either of Hankins or JPP if we only opted to keep one? Finally, Impact on signing a Zeitler for example and a solid TE?
What up Doc? How are you? I've been following things, but just posting less due to me being on the other side of the world working and some personal issues (divorce). Great questions. Where to begin? Off the top of my head I think the prudent thing to do cap-wise, would be to adapt a long-term strategy. If you think short-term, sure you can sign Hankins and JPP, but you're going to have problems signing our young players down the line.
Going back to 2000, the NYG don't re-sign their 1-technique DTs, starting w/Cornelius Griffin. After he signed with the Skins, the Giants opted not to re-sign Barry Cofield & Linval Joseph. Now it's Hankins's turn. I think the Giants will only sign one, w/JPP being the guy. It all is going to depend on the agent. I want to do some HW on that and get back to you. The NYG smartly name a price range and don't go above it after they determine it.
I'd start negotiation w/JPP's agent now and see what can be done. I'd prefer not to franchise him, but it's certainly an option if you want to keep both players. I think JPP is the guy you have to think about first. If he signs a decent contract then I believe that things will flow off of that. Believe it or not, I actually think that JPP's injury near the end of this past season is a blessing in disguise for the NYG negotiations-wise because they can work some incentives into their offer more realistically based off of performance than before.
You have to remember that Arizona offered JPP more money last off-season (I think $1 million more). He opted not to go. I think he'll sty here if things are close. I could see a team in Florida coming after him (**Coughlin**ahem, ahem). He's from there and there's no state income tax there, so there's his incentive. He's their linchpin though.
Negotiations will reveal all. I'd like to sign JPP and JH, but I think the prudent thing is to sign one. The Giants can replace him more easily with a cost-controlled player than they can the other guys on the roster in Free Agency. You've got ODB Jr. and Pugh coming up. I think the Giants will need to save every dollar to sign them. There are other options in the draft (remember that the Giants found Cofield in the 4th round) and in secondary free agency (Domata Peko from the Bungles for instance, even though I'd rather stear clear of him).
I'd prefer JPP if I had to choose between he and Hankins. I'd rather go that route and then allocate funds for a two-way TE like Jermaine Gresham and RG Kevin Zeitler. I think that would be money better spent. Keeping that in mind, the Giants would then need to look for another OL and DT in the first 3 or 4 rounds of the draft this year. It's a hard decision, but off the top of my head, I'd probably go in that direction.
I want to do more HW about it and tell you more though. Too much money has been dished out for DTs in previous years. Let's see what the market bears for Hankins and how the negotiations go with JPP. A best case scenario would be the Gants signing JPP to an incentive laden deal, and Hankins not garnering the attention his agent would like him to.
I think JPP plus Gresham at TE and a guy like Zeitler at RG is a better allocation of funds than JPP plus Hankins. I think Big Hank will get a deal from someone he can't refuse (Coughlin?). Let's see.
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The penalty is only for not reaching the minimum cash spending floor. The penalty is monetary and nothing more.
I saw that, but I wasn't sure where the money even goes. Does the penalty, if there even is one, go to the NFLPA in general? retired players fund? seems like a very soft floor with no real ramifications.
Good question. I'll ask Jason Fitzgerald at OTC or Joel Corry when I get around to it.
I don't care either way, I don't need to defend anyone, just saying could be more cordial and maybe members of the media would interact more. Regardless of what some people say they do have more insight than us fans normally do.
here was your post:
jordan raanan
jtgiants : 1/17/2017 9:30 am
his cap numbers in todays article are wrong. he has us with only a 1.8 million carry over from last year. its more like 11 million. he says were only 20 mill under cap. its not accurate. he needs to read spotrac whos numbers are spot on. its an honest mistake but wanted to point it out
I ask that because I could have sworn with jtgiants started his thread, that OTC had the Giants with 34M in projected cap space for 2017 and today they have them projected at 23M.
could explain the difference.
Not sure about a single transaction or even $10M total, but Cruz earned $3M in weekly roster bonuses and DRC $500k for reaching 5 INTs. Plus, JPP had up to $1.7M in incentives that he could've earned (all data per OTC). If these were not-likely to be earned incentives, then they would not have counted towards the cap initially, but would be in the latest updates to the numbers.
If all the above were earned (don't think JPP reached all of his incentives), then that would explain ~$5M of the difference. It's quite possible a few other players had small incentives as well that added up to the other $5M.
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the Giants conducted a transaction recently that cost $10M in 2016 cap space?
I ask that because I could have sworn with jtgiants started his thread, that OTC had the Giants with 34M in projected cap space for 2017 and today they have them projected at 23M.
could explain the difference.
Not sure about a single transaction or even $10M total, but Cruz earned $3M in weekly roster bonuses and DRC $500k for reaching 5 INTs. Plus, JPP had up to $1.7M in incentives that he could've earned (all data per OTC). If these were not-likely to be earned incentives, then they would not have counted towards the cap initially, but would be in the latest updates to the numbers.
If all the above were earned (don't think JPP reached all of his incentives), then that would explain ~$5M of the difference. It's quite possible a few other players had small incentives as well that added up to the other $5M.
Look at the transactions page provided by BBI. There are 16 transaction for signing new players since 1/9. These contracts may not have been available to overthecap/sptrac. IIRC Overthecap had the Giants with 37 players signed. Noew there are 56. Each contract could be for 450-650K.
That may be the difference people are looking for.
totally fair question. no doubt about it.
I do believe the NFLPA is probably more accurate than either Schefter or Sport trac. And I think therealmf could be right all the futures contracts ate into the carryover and that explains the 11m to 1.8M carryover discrepancy.
Here was a sizing up of the Giants cap situation after last season's spending spree.
With the current cap space estimate of $23 million, Fitzgerald said the Giants still have more money than most teams, despite their big spending to start free agency.
“They should still be around the top 10 in cap room despite all the spending,” Fitzgerald said. “The Giants had huge cap room to start the year so they still have plenty to spare.”
GiantsWire: How much cap space do the Giants have left. - ( New Window )
That is exactly correct. It was added in the latest CBA changes, likely pushed for by the players association.
Here was a sizing up of the Giants cap situation after last season's spending spree.
With the current cap space estimate of $23 million, Fitzgerald said the Giants still have more money than most teams, despite their big spending to start free agency.
“They should still be around the top 10 in cap room despite all the spending,” Fitzgerald said. “The Giants had huge cap room to start the year so they still have plenty to spare.” GiantsWire: How much cap space do the Giants have left. - ( New Window )
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In comment 13331323 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
This is common/public knowledge. Ranaan didn't break anything. It's available for free for anyone that wants to know about it.
NFLPA public salary cap report - ( New Window )
Yes, that is listed publicly, but you have to remember, the Giants are apparently required to file all contracts directly with Raanan, so this information that's available to the great unwashed like us can't possibly be as valuable.
Seriously, you guys are funny. I posted the public link for people on this site yesterday. And people still didn't want to believe me.
I'm not doubting the veracity of your numbers - they're consistent with the NFLPA site, plus I never had reason to doubt the numbers themselves.
I'm just busting your stones about the contract comment you made - it had nothing to do with the accuracy of your actual numbers.
I hope they don't turn out to be the Jags of last season, getting all the hype for the draft picks and FA signings but it seems like Mariota is another stratosphere as a QB compared to Bortles.
What I interpreted in regards to Raanan's numbers is that he is accurate for the most part, he is just not adding in the "estimated cap" for next year he is doing it with the current cap. (its projected to increase by at least 10 million) sportrac.. cap coarryover is on the bottom. - ( New Window )
It was $11 mill last year.
Cruz would save around 7.5.
Vereen isn't getting cut.
However, the last column does not add up....I got
154,943,004, which results in 12,377,155 for rollover to 2017....I wonder if the numbers are off because of all the "futures" signings.....