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NFT: Knicks @ Celtics 7:30 PM

ryanmkeane : 1/18/2017 1:34 pm
Porzingis returning?
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RE: RE: Noah passing  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13332915 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13332892 Deej said:


Quote:


so often he flares out to accept a pass beyond the 3 point line. What the fuck is the point of this. What happens is they leave him open by 10 feet, you have 5 defenders guarding 4 guys, and there isnt space to do much.

Notably, they are NOT using him as a triangle big, taking passes in the post with his back to the basket.



I feel like this is the offense they are running, not what Noah wants to do. Almost every half court set starts with a big at the top of the key and they just hand him the ball to get the offense started.


Which would be "fine" if he either had some sort of offensive game to keep defenders honest or the Knicks ran more motion in their offense.
RE: this is like the 5th or 6th  
djm : 1/19/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13332259 Enzo said:
Quote:
different ailment to affect Noah already this season. Good thing he changed the culture though!


Looks bad...when you're right you're right. You can stop reminding us every day!

For the record I went nuts to a friend I work with when he told me they signed Noah. HE was high on it. I said why and he's always banged. He talked me off the ledge and then I bought in came here and fought the good fight. I still like that he's here in the locker room with KP as a shitty insurance policy but early returns look pretty bleak. Oh well...Knicks would suck anyway even if they didn't sign him. Tank...draft a stud...that's all I got.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13332917 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13332902 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


think the Knicks would be just as good (if not better) with Porzingis backed up by KOQ, Willy and Plumlee vs. what they have done to this point. I'm not even sure Plumlee is a significant downgrade from Noah. He couldn't possibly chip in 5 and 9 or close to it?



Cmon. The dude has more minutes on a bus than he does with the knicks. This is a ridiculous take, IMO.


You don't think Plumlee just based on his size could grab 8 rebounds tonight if given 25 minutes? I'm not suggesting he's a good player (he's not). I'm saying there isn't much lost with KP/KOQ/WIlly/Plumlee. Noah's passing/rebounding isn't irreplaceable.
I do like the idea of Noah coming off the bench  
djm : 1/19/2017 3:13 pm : link
whatever..with the Knicks I feel like I am better off buying into the suck. They deliver suck so consistently over the years. But I can't help but root for them. I enjoyed last night's win...but they are probably better off losing out unless they can really save the season and battle toward 500 record. Not even sure that's worth much but with the young players, losing can be toxic.
Willy should be getting 20-25 minutes a game.  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 3:13 pm : link
He produces when he gets that. *one day* I can actually see him as a staple starter next to KP.
RE: Josh Benjamin- Forbes  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13332884 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
"Simply put, Knicks president Phil Jackson has no choice. He has to re-sign Rose to a max contract this summer. The NBA salary cap will rise above $100 million this summer and, according to Spotrac, New York only has $77.2 million in active contracts for next season. Keeping Rose is a tough decision since he is already making $21.3 million in 2016-17, the final year of his contract, but he has earned that sum tremendously."

my eyes!
RE: RE: Josh Benjamin- Forbes  
djm : 1/19/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13332895 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13332884 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


"Simply put, Knicks president Phil Jackson has no choice. He has to re-sign Rose to a max contract this summer. The NBA salary cap will rise above $100 million this summer and, according to Spotrac, New York only has $77.2 million in active contracts for next season. Keeping Rose is a tough decision since he is already making $21.3 million in 2016-17, the final year of his contract, but he has earned that sum tremendously."



Counterpoint: He has a choice, and the better choice is not to bog the team down with a risky, massive Rose contract when signing Rose doesnt move them realistically any closer to title contention.


"they have no choice but to sign player X to max" --how many times have we heard THAT one before?!!

No. Just no.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:16 pm : link
just noticed the Celtics stashed Yabusele in China. He's averaging 20.5 points 9 boards 2 assists, 39% from 3. Hard to judge Chinese stats when Jimmer is averaging 37 and 7 though...
Willy has always been productive.  
bceagle05 : 1/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
Even in a limited role with Real Madrid - he had games where he got 10 minutes of action and gave you 6 points and 4 rebounds. His game is just so freaking smooth for a big man.
RE: Willy should be getting 20-25 minutes a game.  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13332925 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
He produces when he gets that. *one day* I can actually see him as a staple starter next to KP.


He's basically the perfect example of why it's tough to develop young players as you try and win games. His defense clearly isn't ready but how does it "get good" without playing games?
RE: I  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13332931 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just noticed the Celtics stashed Yabusele in China. He's averaging 20.5 points 9 boards 2 assists, 39% from 3. Hard to judge Chinese stats when Jimmer is averaging 37 and 7 though...


i think anyone here could average 10 points in the chinese league
Jeremy  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:21 pm : link
Tyler is also in China averaging 20 and 10 despite coming off the bench...
it sucks that Phil  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 3:22 pm : link
was dead set on his ancient offense that "needs" to employ two traditional bigs. KP/Melo at the 5/4 surrounded by shooters isn't going to remind anyone of the Bad Boy Pistons on defense, but it would have likely represented their best chance at being competitive this season.

Regardless, here's what I would propose going forward:
Starters: KP/Melo/Kuz/Jennings/Lee
Bench: Rose/Noah/Holliday

Rose's ballhog act works better off the bench at this point of his career IMO, if at all. Lance can ride the bench. Willy gets the shaft but he can fill in for Noah who's always hurt and KP when he gets in foul trouble.
RE: RE: Noah passing  
Deej : 1/19/2017 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13332915 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13332892 Deej said:


Quote:


so often he flares out to accept a pass beyond the 3 point line. What the fuck is the point of this. What happens is they leave him open by 10 feet, you have 5 defenders guarding 4 guys, and there isnt space to do much.

Notably, they are NOT using him as a triangle big, taking passes in the post with his back to the basket.



I feel like this is the offense they are running, not what Noah wants to do. Almost every half court set starts with a big at the top of the key and they just hand him the ball to get the offense started.


Yeah, I just dont understand what the plan is on offense. Noah seems really ill-suited to play in an offense where the #1 and #2 options, Rose and Melo, both stand around waiting for the ball to come to them. Neither move to take a pass. KP isnt a "cutter" and is often in wait for spot up mode (or at least move in a set area angling to open a passing lane for a jumper).

It's really just a bunch of pieces with no organizing concept other than hero ball. The offense ends up "working" (15th in PP possession) I think mostly because you have 3 supernaturally talented scorers in Melo, Rose, and KP.
Maciej Lampe  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:24 pm : link
is averaging 23 and 12, Randolph Morris 22 and 9

It's like a Knicks graveyard over there
I was so fired up  
bceagle05 : 1/19/2017 3:29 pm : link
about Maciej Lampe back in the day.
RE: RE: RE: Noah passing  
Keith : 1/19/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13332944 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13332915 Keith said:


Quote:


In comment 13332892 Deej said:


Quote:


so often he flares out to accept a pass beyond the 3 point line. What the fuck is the point of this. What happens is they leave him open by 10 feet, you have 5 defenders guarding 4 guys, and there isnt space to do much.

Notably, they are NOT using him as a triangle big, taking passes in the post with his back to the basket.



I feel like this is the offense they are running, not what Noah wants to do. Almost every half court set starts with a big at the top of the key and they just hand him the ball to get the offense started.



Yeah, I just dont understand what the plan is on offense. Noah seems really ill-suited to play in an offense where the #1 and #2 options, Rose and Melo, both stand around waiting for the ball to come to them. Neither move to take a pass. KP isnt a "cutter" and is often in wait for spot up mode (or at least move in a set area angling to open a passing lane for a jumper).

It's really just a bunch of pieces with no organizing concept other than hero ball. The offense ends up "working" (15th in PP possession) I think mostly because you have 3 supernaturally talented scorers in Melo, Rose, and KP.


Agreed. I'm often watching and wondering what the plan is. They rely on Rose, Melo or KP to beat their man off the dribble almost the whole game. Their guard dribbles the ball up the court, hands it to the big at the top of the key and they give it back to the guard, set a pick and go from there.
RE: I was so fired up  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13332954 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
about Maciej Lampe back in the day.


I was working at a summer camp that summer and had to miss the draft for parents night. My friends would keep me updated. We supposedly liked Lampe at #9, when we landed both he and Sweetney I thought we hit a home run....
2003 draft  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:40 pm : link
Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Wade

Kaman, Josh Howard, Ridnour, TJ Ford, David West, Diaw, Barbosa, Korver, Mo Williams, Collison, Steve Blake, Hinrich, Perkins, Delfino, Zaza and yet the Knicks ended up with 2 absolute zeroes lol
Thoughts on Rose for Rubio/Muhammed(or a better piece)?  
Keith : 1/19/2017 3:41 pm : link
If melo isn't going anywhere, theres no point in breaking everything down, so accumulate assets where you can. Rubio is not very good, but his contract is reasonable and he can distribute. Muhammed or another piece, would be an asset.

Thoughts?
Knick fans were giddy  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 3:44 pm : link
for Lampe and Milos...and even Slavko who was like 7-6. But then Isiah got hired, immediately cut Slavko, and included Lampe and Milos in the Marbury deal and that was the end of that.
That draft  
Deej : 1/19/2017 3:44 pm : link
Weird, I also remember where I was for that pick (firm event with a TV on). That pick is like our Kennedy assassination moment.

Felt like an 8 player draft and we had pick 9. I think I was hoping on Kaman, because I liked that he could shoot with both hands.
RE: 2003 draft  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13332971 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Wade

Kaman, Josh Howard, Ridnour, TJ Ford, David West, Diaw, Barbosa, Korver, Mo Williams, Collison, Steve Blake, Hinrich, Perkins, Delfino, Zaza and yet the Knicks ended up with 2 absolute zeroes lol

true, but Sweetney wasn't a bust due to a lack of talent.
Vranes  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:47 pm : link
plays in... Iran. Averaging 11 and 10 with 3 blocks
Rubio is a guy I think you need to see play  
Deej : 1/19/2017 3:48 pm : link
30 times to really assess whether he is worth having a PG who cant shoot a lick on a long deal. Can you play Rubio and Noah at the same time?
RE: RE: 2003 draft  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13332985 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13332971 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Wade

Kaman, Josh Howard, Ridnour, TJ Ford, David West, Diaw, Barbosa, Korver, Mo Williams, Collison, Steve Blake, Hinrich, Perkins, Delfino, Zaza and yet the Knicks ended up with 2 absolute zeroes lol


true, but Sweetney wasn't a bust due to a lack of talent.


Nope but he weighed like 400 pounds, lost weight and then gained a bunch back. To be out of the league at 24 is pretty bad. He recently talked about his food addiction. His dad died right before he joined the Knicks and he thinks that basically messed him up to the point he never responded.
RE: Rubio is a guy I think you need to see play  
Keith : 1/19/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13332992 Deej said:
Quote:
30 times to really assess whether he is worth having a PG who cant shoot a lick on a long deal. Can you play Rubio and Noah at the same time?


Probably not, but now that Noah is coming off the bench, he'll play more with Jennings.

RE: I  
Bill L : 1/19/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13332931 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just noticed the Celtics stashed Yabusele in China. He's averaging 20.5 points 9 boards 2 assists, 39% from 3. Hard to judge Chinese stats when Jimmer is averaging 37 and 7 though...
I read a recent scouting report on him. The conclusion was that he would definitely play with the Celtics next season as opposed to being stashed again. Might get minutes, might not. The report was much higher on Zizic who is supposedly doing very well against higher competition in Turkey despite being young for the league. Good potential as a rim protector. Report said that also will definitely be in Boston and he has a chance for significant minutes.
trade machine madness:  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 4:04 pm : link
Knicks get: Dragic/Rubio
Wolves get: Noah
Heat get: Rose/Shabazz

come on Thibs, help us out!
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13333007 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13332931 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


just noticed the Celtics stashed Yabusele in China. He's averaging 20.5 points 9 boards 2 assists, 39% from 3. Hard to judge Chinese stats when Jimmer is averaging 37 and 7 though...

I read a recent scouting report on him. The conclusion was that he would definitely play with the Celtics next season as opposed to being stashed again. Might get minutes, might not. The report was much higher on Zizic who is supposedly doing very well against higher competition in Turkey despite being young for the league. Good potential as a rim protector. Report said that also will definitely be in Boston and he has a chance for significant minutes.


I saw Yabusele play a bit in summer league. Sort of had the Draymond Green vibe but there is only 1 Draymond Green so who knows?
RE: trade machine madness:  
Deej : 1/19/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13333012 Enzo said:
Quote:
Knicks get: Dragic/Rubio
Wolves get: Noah
Heat get: Rose/Shabazz

come on Thibs, help us out!


I believe the Heat want a lot more for Dragic than Shabazz and an expiring.
RE: RE: trade machine madness:  
Enzo : 1/19/2017 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13333020 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13333012 Enzo said:


Quote:


Knicks get: Dragic/Rubio
Wolves get: Noah
Heat get: Rose/Shabazz

come on Thibs, help us out!



I believe the Heat want a lot more for Dragic than Shabazz and an expiring.

oh yeah it's wishful thinking. And nobody, not even Thibs, is taking Noah's deal. I do think if the Heat end up deciding to move Dragic, they're going to end up getting back less than what they gave up to get him. There's just not a huge market for PG's these days.
RE: Thoughts on Rose for Rubio/Muhammed(or a better piece)?  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13332973 Keith said:
Quote:
If melo isn't going anywhere, theres no point in breaking everything down, so accumulate assets where you can. Rubio is not very good, but his contract is reasonable and he can distribute. Muhammed or another piece, would be an asset.

Thoughts?


I'd do it. Rubio doesn't exactly hurt our tanking cause and it's a better alternative to paying twice as much for rose over the next 3 years. Muhammad may not be more than a rotational piece but I believe he was miscast in a MIN.
RE: Rubio is a guy I think you need to see play  
Aspano! : 1/19/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13332992 Deej said:
Quote:
30 times to really assess whether he is worth having a PG who cant shoot a lick on a long deal. Can you play Rubio and Noah at the same time?


This is what I was thinking. Can you actually have a decent lineup with two guys who are black holes on offense, and 3 elite or near elite scorers?
I posted this on the Sixers thread  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 4:22 pm : link
But here's another trade machine idea (not Knicks related)

Celtics get: Whiteside and James Johnson
Sixers get: Dragic, Amir Johnson and Josh Richardson
Heat get: Okafor, Jaylen Brown, Stauskas, Henderson and Rodriguez. Maybe a lottery protected 1st rounder or two.
Man,  
Keith : 1/19/2017 4:50 pm : link
I'm glad you're not a gm!
My real feelings on Rubio  
Deej : 1/19/2017 5:09 pm : link
are that I havent seen him enough to assess whether his defense and running an offense to counter against his poor shooting.

Putting that aside, I'm probably interested in a Rubio this offseason if we dont land a PG in the draft (or if we land a project PG) and decide to keep Melo and not tank. Strikes me as a not massive risk given the cap, with a decent amount of upside. Maybe the mix of offensive talent here suits Rubio better.
RE: Man,  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13333088 Keith said:
Quote:
I'm glad you're not a gm!


:)
RE: My real feelings on Rubio  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13333108 Deej said:
Quote:
are that I havent seen him enough to assess whether his defense and running an offense to counter against his poor shooting.

Putting that aside, I'm probably interested in a Rubio this offseason if we dont land a PG in the draft (or if we land a project PG) and decide to keep Melo and not tank. Strikes me as a not massive risk given the cap, with a decent amount of upside. Maybe the mix of offensive talent here suits Rubio better.


Oh my feelings to get Rubio IS to tank (or at least acquire a young piece). I'm not a fan of Rubio but I don't think he's a bad player. He's a stopgap PG who ideally is a backup on a good team. A guy who can spark an offense with bench players.

Also I'd want him as to prevent us giving $150M to either Rose or Holiday.
He'd be a good option for "tanking". He gets other players involved.
Rubio would probably be good for Porz  
dep026 : 1/19/2017 5:37 pm : link
but Rubio is useless with Melo.
Jimmy Butler named ECF All-star  
dep026 : 1/19/2017 5:40 pm : link
starter. He must have pulled passed Love at the end. I imagine it would be...

Irving/Lowry
James/Giannis/Butler

as the EC starters
RE: RE: RE: I  
TyreeHelmet : 1/19/2017 5:44 pm : link
In comment 13332922 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13332917 Keith said:


Quote:


In comment 13332902 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


think the Knicks would be just as good (if not better) with Porzingis backed up by KOQ, Willy and Plumlee vs. what they have done to this point. I'm not even sure Plumlee is a significant downgrade from Noah. He couldn't possibly chip in 5 and 9 or close to it?



Cmon. The dude has more minutes on a bus than he does with the knicks. This is a ridiculous take, IMO.



You don't think Plumlee just based on his size could grab 8 rebounds tonight if given 25 minutes? I'm not suggesting he's a good player (he's not). I'm saying there isn't much lost with KP/KOQ/WIlly/Plumlee. Noah's passing/rebounding isn't irreplaceable.


This is spot on about Noah/ Plumlee. Only thing Noah does better is handle the ball and pass. But as stated earlier, his passing is pointless because he isn't a threat. Plumlee atleast sets good screens.

The Knicks are such a lost cause. Jealous of seeing teams like the Sixers start to gel and our roster is all over the map. I'd love to see Willy and KP develop with some other young guys.
RE: Jimmy Butler named ECF All-star  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 5:44 pm : link
In comment 13333140 dep026 said:
Quote:
starter. He must have pulled passed Love at the end. I imagine it would be...

Irving/Lowry
James/Giannis/Butler

as the EC starters


Was calling you earlier Dep!

It's way back now But I was essentially saying with gay out and and the Kings embarking on a rough 8 game road trip it looks like Philly could be owning the Kings pick over the bulls
All star team should have a center  
Deej : 1/19/2017 5:46 pm : link
center and small forward are not the same position. Whereas SG and SF are pretty close.

If you dont have to have a center, might as well just say top 5, any position.
RE: RE: Jimmy Butler named ECF All-star  
dep026 : 1/19/2017 5:48 pm : link
In comment 13333150 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13333140 dep026 said:


Quote:


starter. He must have pulled passed Love at the end. I imagine it would be...

Irving/Lowry
James/Giannis/Butler

as the EC starters



Was calling you earlier Dep!

It's way back now But I was essentially saying with gay out and and the Kings embarking on a rough 8 game road trip it looks like Philly could be owning the Kings pick over the bulls


Sorry! Wife is preggo with a bad case of the flu and had bball practice.

And I saw that with the Kings. so does this mean the 76ers can have 3 lottery picks?
gratz in advance dep  
Deej : 1/19/2017 5:52 pm : link
your first?
Change  
DanMetroMan : 1/19/2017 5:58 pm : link
Of plans. KP in the lineup tonight
RE: RE: Josh Benjamin- Forbes  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/19/2017 6:01 pm : link
In comment 13332926 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13332884 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


"Simply put, Knicks president Phil Jackson has no choice. He has to re-sign Rose to a max contract this summer. The NBA salary cap will rise above $100 million this summer and, according to Spotrac, New York only has $77.2 million in active contracts for next season. Keeping Rose is a tough decision since he is already making $21.3 million in 2016-17, the final year of his contract, but he has earned that sum tremendously."


my eyes!


The Knicks giving Rose a max contract would finally be the thing to make me stop watching this team. I've stuck with them through a LOT of horseshit, but that would be too much.
RE: RE: RE: Jimmy Butler named ECF All-star  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 6:03 pm : link
In comment 13333153 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13333150 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13333140 dep026 said:


Quote:


starter. He must have pulled passed Love at the end. I imagine it would be...

Irving/Lowry
James/Giannis/Butler

as the EC starters



Was calling you earlier Dep!

It's way back now But I was essentially saying with gay out and and the Kings embarking on a rough 8 game road trip it looks like Philly could be owning the Kings pick over the bulls



Sorry! Wife is preggo with a bad case of the flu and had bball practice.

And I saw that with the Kings. so does this mean the 76ers can have 3 lottery picks?


Sorry to hear hope all is wel brother.

And nah, the sixers have swap rights if the Kings pick falls in the top 10.
gotcha  
dep026 : 1/19/2017 6:05 pm : link
...
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