for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Raanan: Where do the Giants go at offensive tackle?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/19/2017 7:55 am
Jordan discusses options...
Where do the Giants go at offensive tackle? - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: Riley Reiff  
Johnny5 : 1/19/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13332111 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13332107 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


has played both LT and RT. The article states he's only a RT. He actually played only this past season at RT and the other four of his career on the left side. He has been inconsistent on both sides from what I have read. He could be a calculated risk. Whitworth's age scares me. He's the type of player the Giants would sign and then he would all of a sudden become injury prone.



Whitworth doesn't scare me. He plays 16 games a season and has only been injured where he counldn't play in 2008 and 2013. You know who scares me is Pugh. The guy has only played 16 games his rookie year. Every year since then, he misses games. Yet, everyone on BBI wants to extend him.

I hear you but that's a tough assessment based on what happened this year, with the way he got hurt. That can happen to anyone on a football field at anytime.
If Beatty ends up being a reliable starter  
phil in arizona : 1/19/2017 12:06 pm : link
for someone next season I'm going to stick a pillow over my head and suffocate myself.
someone *else*  
phil in arizona : 1/19/2017 12:07 pm : link
.
RE: Amazing...been calling for the Giants to go after  
djm : 1/19/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13332102 That’s Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
Joe Thomas since last summer...now everyone else seems to be on board (Jordan not the first to suggest this). Guess we here at BBI are just dummies.


Yes. You are clearly ahead of the curve here.
RE: Again after OL  
djm : 1/19/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13332116 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
#2 WR is the weakest position on O. On D it all depends what we do with our DL free agents


WR is not even close to the weakest position on this team. OL, RB, TE then WR. And i'd put defensive help ahead of WR assuming the lose one of JPP or Hankins or Robinson.
Tough spot for a LT  
JonC : 1/19/2017 12:27 pm : link
No obvious strong answers via UFA, and unlikely a draft pick at #23 will be any better than EF.

Which leaves me thinking EF will continue at LT, unless they somehow pull off a trade.
is it remotely possible  
djm : 1/19/2017 12:31 pm : link
that DRC is dangled as trade bait to a team that maybe wants to move one of its tackles? Sounds nuts...rarely happens...but it does happen from time to time and maybe there's a match out there. I'd consider trading DRC for an equally talented tackle of similar age. Why not...I love DRC but if you could turn him into a tackle you'd have to consider it. You'd be robbing peter to pay paul in some ways, but the cupboard wouldn't exactly be bare in the secondary.
one part of the DRC rumor last Spring was  
JonC : 1/19/2017 12:32 pm : link
he was dangled for an OT.
RE: If Beatty ends up being a reliable starter  
Beer Man : 1/19/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13332482 phil in arizona said:
Quote:
for someone next season I'm going to stick a pillow over my head and suffocate myself.
Could possibly happen. I've said this in the past on other threads, but I always got the impression that Mac didn't want Will B. back on the team, but Jerry felt he had to add him given the OL situation and not many options left. It seemed like Mac wasn't going to play him unless he absolutely had to. I don't know if any of that is true, it was just my reading between the lines.
JOE  
djstat : 1/19/2017 12:42 pm : link
THOMAS
in a weak FA market for LT  
old man : 1/19/2017 12:47 pm : link
and an even worse draft, I can see JR overpaying in FA or trading up in desperation for Robinson, even a slipping Robinson, or jumping on a unknown,healthwise, Ramcyk.
RE: Flowers at guard?  
Beer Man : 1/19/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13332260 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
I thought that in the West Coast offense, a guard needs to be able to pull and move. I don't see Flowers doing that well. His strength is in pushing straight ahead.
I think it has more to do with the zone blocking type running game the Giants have been using for years. The West Coast Offense is more about passing, and uses short passing routes over running the ball. Macs O implements both.
Giants have to go FA or Trade  
nicky43 : 1/19/2017 1:14 pm : link
They won't get the caliber they need in the draft where they pick.

Bite the bullet, spend big on a great LT, move Flowers to the right side (and pray).
RE: I've been a proponent of signing Whitworth for 2-3 year contract.  
clatterbuck : 1/19/2017 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13332103 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
BB'56 had a thread yesterday evening that ended up being deleted. I mentioned the history of Whitworth and his situation with the Bengals. Basically, they have drafted younger players, but their inability to develop and unseat Whitworth has led their front office to kicking the can on Whitworth. Last year was one year deal. The year before that he was coming off a 2 year deal. He has to realize this is his last contract. I just hope their young talent has developed enough for the Bengals to not offer another piecemeal contract. He likely will want to stay with the Bengals as he has played for them his entire career, but absent a contract from them, he should be our primary target.

Move Flowers to the right side. It's worth an effort in OTA's to see if he can handle RT, but I think he would be better suited at RG to protect against the speed on the outside. A draft prospect, Lamp, would likely be there for us to pick. Let the Flowers, draft pick, and Hart decide how the right side shakes out. For insurance, I would bring back Newhouse as depth.


Seem to recall Lomas Brown did OK as a veteran LT stop-gap. Maybe Whitworth could provide similar value.
good point about Lomas Brown clatterbuck. I'd rather do that than  
Victor in CT : 1/19/2017 1:31 pm : link
reach for an OL who isn't worthy of the pick.
RE: RE: I'd take a gamble on Matt Kalil  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/19/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13332335 BillKo said:
Quote:


If Garett Bolles is great, who cares??? OL play until an advanced age anyway, esp if they are advanced (or, as you say, "great"!)


Reese appears to love drafting VERY young guys. Eli Apple was 20 when they drafted him. Odell and Hankins are still 24 years-old. Flowers is still 22.
Lomas Brown had about 18 games left in him when NYG signed him  
djm : 1/19/2017 2:02 pm : link
wish it was 19.
RE: RE: RE: Riley Reiff  
GiantTerp79 : 1/19/2017 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13332463 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13332111 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13332107 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


has played both LT and RT. The article states he's only a RT. He actually played only this past season at RT and the other four of his career on the left side. He has been inconsistent on both sides from what I have read. He could be a calculated risk. Whitworth's age scares me. He's the type of player the Giants would sign and then he would all of a sudden become injury prone.



Whitworth doesn't scare me. He plays 16 games a season and has only been injured where he counldn't play in 2008 and 2013. You know who scares me is Pugh. The guy has only played 16 games his rookie year. Every year since then, he misses games. Yet, everyone on BBI wants to extend him.



Reese has a ton of work to do. Pugh may be another Beatty deal. He's been better than Beatty but too often hurt. And with so little depth they may over pay him for continuity. There isn't a guy on the OL
who is an no briane keeper. To have one of the worst OLs
Four years running is sad when you have a pocket like QB in Eli. They need 3 OLs out of the draft. 2 in the first four sounds Where I don't care and at least one FA starter. Reese has failed for 9 years at finding any. It should scare us fans.


Totally agree that Reese has missed on EVERY lineman he's taken except Richburg, he will be a good center for us. You can't ignore that Pugh was a first Rd draft pick that was supposed to be our RT initially but the scouts all said his arms were too short and now he's our LG, and as you mention he has not played 16 straight games so nice his rookie year. That said, Pugh should be paid like a starting guard and losing him would only hinder the team. I think getting Whitworth solves two major issues: a starting caliber LT to stay healthy and protect Eli and someone to mentor a young LT we draft either this year or next. Don't know if we can afford Whitworth and Reiff but that would solidify an OL Resse has treated like middle school science experiment....and he definely is no scientist.
Ideal line for me would be  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2017 2:18 pm : link
Kalil-Pugh-Richburg-Zeitler-Flowers
RE: Ideal line for me would be  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13332815 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Kalil-Pugh-Richburg-Zeitler-Flowers


Isn't Kalil a physical breakdown waiting to happen?
RE: RE: Ideal line for me would be  
GiantTerp79 : 1/19/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13332822 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13332815 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Kalil-Pugh-Richburg-Zeitler-Flowers



Isn't Kalil a physical breakdown waiting to happen?


Pretty sure he had hip surgery this year and he had another hip surgery previously.
Look...if OT is that weak in this particular draft  
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2017 2:32 pm : link
then there really shouldn't be opposition to finding a FA guy for a year or two to fill in at LT until we draft the right guy.

Anybody supporting Flowers line up there again for game 1 next season is over-thinking this one...
RE: RE: Ideal line for me would be  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13332822 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13332815 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Kalil-Pugh-Richburg-Zeitler-Flowers



Isn't Kalil a physical breakdown waiting to happen?

There's no real evidence to suggest he misses games or is constantly injured. He had the hip this past season and that's been about it. Started every game in career before that.
I find it hilarious  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2017 2:42 pm : link
that everyone wanted Okung and Clady, two guys that are far more oft injured than Kalil...but now everyone doesn't want Kalil. Strange, really.
RE: I find it hilarious  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13332871 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that everyone wanted Okung and Clady, two guys that are far more oft injured than Kalil...but now everyone doesn't want Kalil. Strange, really.


If he had two hip surgeries, THAT would be troubling
Can't find anything about a hip  
ryanmkeane : 1/19/2017 2:54 pm : link
surgery he had before this one. Nothing in college, nothing in the pros. Could be wrong though..
RE: Can't find anything about a hip  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13332899 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
surgery he had before this one. Nothing in college, nothing in the pros. Could be wrong though..


Me too
Here  
Anakim : 1/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
Matt Kalil's injuries by year in the NFL
Link - ( New Window )
if Kalil's body checks out  
JonC : 1/19/2017 4:04 pm : link
he's the guy I'd take a chance on.
RE: if Kalil's body checks out  
Anakim : 1/19/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13333013 JonC said:
Quote:
he's the guy I'd take a chance on.


Agreed. I mean he's not that good to begin with, but it's literally the best of all possibilities...which is sad.
When healthy he was very good  
JonC : 1/19/2017 4:08 pm : link
He's just not been able to stay healthy. A man his size could continue to have leg issues, but I'd give a long look.
RE: When healthy he was very good  
Anakim : 1/19/2017 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13333019 JonC said:
Quote:
He's just not been able to stay healthy. A man his size could continue to have leg issues, but I'd give a long look.



We discussed this a couple of days ago, Jon. Aside from his rookie year, Kalil hasn't been very good at all.
Injuries  
JonC : 1/19/2017 4:22 pm : link
mang. The talent is there ...
or you could say the talent was there  
JonC : 1/19/2017 4:23 pm : link
and needs to be newly demonstrated now, of course.
It seems pretty clear to me that without  
SomeFan : 1/19/2017 5:11 pm : link
a refurbish of the O-line at the tackles and a MUCH better TE, we will have the same shitty level of performance on offense next year. It wasn't like injuries did us in.

We also would benefit from a RB that is big and/or strong and runs with a 'tude. Despite this being a passing league, every time the Giants have won or been in the SB, they have had kick-ass RBs. Perkins is a decent player but we need a two-headed RB these days.

Also, another WR with some size would be nice, though we may be able to get by with what we have at WR.
Kalil is just a name. Never a standout player.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/19/2017 5:18 pm : link
.
I realize Whitworth isn't young.  
Diver_Down : 1/19/2017 5:27 pm : link
And he obviously is only a stop-gap measure to provide reliable protection for Eli's blindside. He doesn't have a recent injury history and still at the top of his game evidenced by his selection to the Pro Bowl in his later years (2012, 2015, and 2016).

The last time the New York Football Giants sent a tackle to the Pro Bowl was in 1994 with Jumbo Elliot.
Where do the Giants go at OT?  
johnboyw : 1/19/2017 7:39 pm : link
Well let's put it this way, there aren't as many viable options this year as there were last year to fix the tackle problem. If Reese had the balls to admit his mistake of trying to make Flowers a LT last year and signed a real LT (I.e. Okung, Clady, Penn, Monroe, etc) and moved Flowers to RT, all we would be talking about doing this year is replacing Jerry (Zeitler, Warmack, Leary). A much easier task. But Reese screwed up and you are probably looking at new people at three spots to fix this. And it won't come from the draft because it's not a great year for OL and they take too long to develop anyway. And on top of that it will take a while for a new group to become cohesive and effective.
Kareem McKenzie  
jacob12 : 1/19/2017 8:01 pm : link
In 2010 Pro Football Focus picked Kareem as 1st team All Pro.They said McKenzie was the best offensive tackle in football, and easily the best run blocker.I do not think most Giant fans realize how much we miss Kareem.
RE: RE: See, this is where Raanan disappoints a bit  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2017 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13332310 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 13332094 jcn56 said:


Quote:


A lot of chest puffing on the other thread about inside sources and access we don't have. All well and good when it's about the salary cap (for which there are plenty of public sources to accurately pull apart data), but here's where some insider knowledge would come in handy.

Instead, a puff piece that tells us what we already know: Flowers has disappointed, the Giants tried to pick up a tackle (for the right side) unsuccessfully, and a list of the guys available this season.

The reality of the newspaper business is that
1) sometimes a beat reporter has to file a story when there's no news, because that's what his editor wants; and
2) reporters and editors can't assume that everybody is as well-informed about the Giants as a BBI reader; so
3) reporters write stuff they've written before, not because they're lazy, but because reporters and editors assume not everyone read the earlier stories, and if they did, readers may not remember them.

So sometimes you're going to read stuff that bores you or strikes you as a "puff piece," but you're not the intended audience.

All very fair points.


Raanan works for ESPN.
RE: Giants have to go FA or Trade  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2017 8:27 pm : link
In comment 13332661 nicky43 said:
Quote:
They won't get the caliber they need in the draft where they pick.

Bite the bullet, spend big on a great LT, move Flowers to the right side (and pray).

This is not meant to disagree with your opinion, but who are those great LTs to even consider spending big on? It's an incredibly thin market.
RE: Kareem McKenzie  
81_Great_Dane : 1/19/2017 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13333289 jacob12 said:
Quote:
In 2010 Pro Football Focus picked Kareem as 1st team All Pro.They said McKenzie was the best offensive tackle in football, and easily the best run blocker.I do not think most Giant fans realize how much we miss Kareem.
Boy, I sure do. Having a great run-blocking RT is a huge advantage, and he was that.
RE: RE: Giants have to go FA or Trade  
Diver_Down : 1/19/2017 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13333338 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13332661 nicky43 said:


Quote:


They won't get the caliber they need in the draft where they pick.

Bite the bullet, spend big on a great LT, move Flowers to the right side (and pray).


This is not meant to disagree with your opinion, but who are those great LTs to even consider spending big on? It's an incredibly thin market.


Have you not bothered reading my comments on Whitworth? By all measures, he still plays at the pinnacle of his trade. He's healthy and doesn't miss games. Been voted to pro bowl with his recent play (2012, 2015, 2016) and will likely sign for 9/mil year.
RE: Covering his ass....  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2017 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13332365 Doomster said:
Quote:
“Ereck has played basically every snap since he has been here. He is an early-out junior, still a young player, but it is time for him to show us the fruits of being a first-round draft pick, and I still think he has a chance to do that,” general manager Jerry Reese said after the season.

“Is he the left tackle? Should he be in a different position? We will evaluate that. But I do think that he is a big, strong kid who has a chance to be a really good player."


Yes, Reese, you know he isn't a LT......and now you are hoping that he can just be an average RG/RT......not good for a #9 pick....

As for the piece itself, it is nothing but fluff.....Raanan probably got the idea by reading BBI....

Why do you bother to follow this team if you only read the most absolute negative interpretation? Or in this case, a more negative interpretation than the actual words even suggest?
RE: RE: RE: Giants have to go FA or Trade  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2017 9:50 pm : link
In comment 13333395 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13333338 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13332661 nicky43 said:


Quote:


They won't get the caliber they need in the draft where they pick.

Bite the bullet, spend big on a great LT, move Flowers to the right side (and pray).


This is not meant to disagree with your opinion, but who are those great LTs to even consider spending big on? It's an incredibly thin market.



Have you not bothered reading my comments on Whitworth? By all measures, he still plays at the pinnacle of his trade. He's healthy and doesn't miss games. Been voted to pro bowl with his recent play (2012, 2015, 2016) and will likely sign for 9/mil year.

I'm absolutely in favor of pursuing Whitworth, but I wouldn't consider him a "spend big on a great" LT. He has a fantastic track record. And a dusty birth certificate. I would gladly - GLADLY - cheer his addition to the roster, but he's a stopgap. Maybe it's just semantics, but I don't consider a stopgap solution to be "spend big on a great LT."
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants have to go FA or Trade  
Diver_Down : 1/20/2017 7:01 am : link
In comment 13333456 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13333395 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13333338 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13332661 nicky43 said:


Quote:


They won't get the caliber they need in the draft where they pick.

Bite the bullet, spend big on a great LT, move Flowers to the right side (and pray).


This is not meant to disagree with your opinion, but who are those great LTs to even consider spending big on? It's an incredibly thin market.



Have you not bothered reading my comments on Whitworth? By all measures, he still plays at the pinnacle of his trade. He's healthy and doesn't miss games. Been voted to pro bowl with his recent play (2012, 2015, 2016) and will likely sign for 9/mil year.


I'm absolutely in favor of pursuing Whitworth, but I wouldn't consider him a "spend big on a great" LT. He has a fantastic track record. And a dusty birth certificate. I would gladly - GLADLY - cheer his addition to the roster, but he's a stopgap. Maybe it's just semantics, but I don't consider a stopgap solution to be "spend big on a great LT."


Got you. Just a matter of semantics. I admitted above that he would only be a stop gap signing. But I also realize that he would instantly be our best LT in 20+ years. For such a storied franchise in one of the largest markets, I find it troublesome that we continue to field such mediocrity with our OL.
I wouldn't sign a 36 yr old, who knows when his play jsut  
PatersonPlank : 1/20/2017 11:25 am : link
drops off a cliff.

I'd probably go draft again, picking Ramczyk in Rd 1 (if his hip is ok'd by doctors) or Bolles in Rd 2 or 3 (this may be the best option frankly).

What about Beatty? Is he done or was this season a redshirt season (so to speak)? If he can return to just what he was, which was an avg or slightly above average LT, that would help dramatically. We wouldn't have to use a draft pick.
If nothing else ...  
Beer Man : 1/20/2017 3:05 pm : link
Now that Jerry has stated that the team will re-evaluate where Flowers plays, that should remove the issue that scared off all FA OTs last year.
I've been upset...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/20/2017 4:17 pm : link
the Giants didn't bring in better competition for LT. Mostly because they appeared to tell FA's that there wasn't an open competition for the spot, and that they would be signing to play RT.

I've been critical of the Giants for this, but it doesn't mean I've given up entirely on our OT's. They are way too young to write off altogether. Here's what I'm really hoping for.

1. The Giants sign a capable set of OT's - don't need to be all-pros.
2. Flowers/Hart win the starting jobs in camp and play well all season.
RE: I've been upset...  
jcn56 : 1/20/2017 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13334396 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
the Giants didn't bring in better competition for LT. Mostly because they appeared to tell FA's that there wasn't an open competition for the spot, and that they would be signing to play RT.

I've been critical of the Giants for this, but it doesn't mean I've given up entirely on our OT's. They are way too young to write off altogether. Here's what I'm really hoping for.

1. The Giants sign a capable set of OT's - don't need to be all-pros.
2. Flowers/Hart win the starting jobs in camp and play well all season.


I think it's more complicated than just open competition. The difference in salary between LT and RT is significant. How do you sign an FA and tell them it's open competition? If anything, you'd have to pay them like an LT and then slot them in at RT if they come up short. Then, you're paying a premium for a guy technically playing out of position.

With the benefit of hindsight it looks bad, but I think the Giants made the right call. They had Flowers, who had an up and down rookie year starting at LT from day one, and figured he would progress. They brought in vet tackles (both RT and LT), with the intent of having them start at RT and the backup option of sliding them over to the left should Flowers falter. They balked because of the difference in compensation.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner