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Is Bromley ready to replace Hankins?

Matt in SGS : 1/19/2017 12:54 pm
In the offseason, we will all be focused on the JPP drama. And the anticipated cuts/salary reductions for guys like Cruz, Vereen, JT Thomas, etc. Of course, we will be looking at free agents, trade market, and the draft.

But one of the biggest decisions for the Giants will be what to do with Hankins. If you followed the Reese plan around DTs the past few years, his motto has been to draft a DT to trail behind starting DT who is approaching free agency. He did it with Barry Cofield, where he first tried (and almost) traded him to the Saints, only to leave as a free agent and swap in Lindval Joseph. Similarly, as Joseph approached free agency, the Giants had Hankins in the wings ready to take his position.

Now we have the similar set up, Hankins, who turns 25 in March, and was healthy for a full season, hitting free agency. Behind him was Jay Bromley, who after an embarassing off-season scandal, seemed to play pretty well when he was called upon. The entire DL played much better in 2016, as we all know. So the question is, do the Giants think the Hankins' play in 2016, where he was very active, including playing at DE on some pass rush formations, a result of the other talent around him, specifically a space eater like Snacks next to him, or did he hold his own and the Giants are looking at someone ready to take the next step in his prime.

And how much did the play of Bromley factor into their decision. I don't have the PFF grades available on him (and yes, we crap on PFF, but teams do use it), but I recall seeing his name up there in the higher graded groups after a few games this year. And by the eye test, he looked to play much better this year when called upon.

So the question is, do the Giants look to retain Hankins and give him a fairly sizable contract, or do they let him go and slot in Bromley and look to draft another DT this year and prepare for the cycle to repeat again.
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RE: Absolutely not.  
njm : 1/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13332874 TMS said:
Quote:
Bromley was over drafted and is not starter material. The Linval joseph mistake repeated.


I think the Vikings would beg to differ.
Comparing apples to oranges  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/19/2017 3:18 pm : link
As a DT, I do not believe that Hankins is anywhere near the player that JPP is as a DE.

My order is JPP as a must-sign, Hankins as desireable but you place a value on him and do not go above it.
strength in the middle, DT is a critical position  
gtt350 : 1/19/2017 3:30 pm : link
must sign Hankins. Hankins and Snacks anchor the whole D
.  
Go Terps : 1/19/2017 3:34 pm : link
I don't know, but I know I believe the Harrison/Hankins combo was the #1 reason for the success on defense.
There seems to be  
Pete in MD : 1/19/2017 4:25 pm : link
a number of good interior d-linemen set to hit free agency this off-season, many of them in their 20's. Hopefully that will suppress the market somewhat.
I don't think you can get kill the Bromley pick  
djm : 1/19/2017 4:37 pm : link
even if he ends up as a JAG from now until his last game getting a rotational DT in round 3 is good work. OF course some will kill Reese because he didn't draft Joe Klecko...but that's fine.
I think some people are evaluating Hankins play this past season  
Mason : 1/19/2017 5:14 pm : link
but are using Snacks as evidence. IMO Hankins did not have a great season at all. I expected a lot more sacks with the addition of Snacks who commanded double teams. Many times the reason why the DL was unable to rush the passer was because Hankins was handled with simply a center/RG. Also when it was time to rush the passer in the 4th quarter he was taken out and Bromley inserted along with rotational DEs.
JPP  
AcidTest : 1/19/2017 5:26 pm : link
and Hankins are going to command a lot of money in FA. More than Reese might be willing to spend. JPP is 29, has had back injuries, and is missing most of his right hand. Hankins is a DT, and as others have said, the one constant with Reese is that he drafts a new one every few years. Considering he's done well in replacing DTs in the draft, he may well feel like he can do so again. Especially since Thomas showed a little something in the few snaps he got.
My mentality is that  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2017 5:40 pm : link
We already have Snacks as a big salary run stuffer. Hankins does not provide enough push in the pass game.

I agree that JPP is a necessity and Hankins is desired. Yes, we would like to keep all of our players. Part of our run defense was also the improved play of our linebackers. That is a chicken an egg scenario though. Did our LBs play better because of our DL? Yes. Did our DL benefit from having better LB play? Maybe.

Still, going back to what I mentioned earlier, our push up the middle was gone for long stretches throughout games. A lot of our sacks were coverage sacks. So, not only do I believe that we need JPP, I also feel that we need another true pass rusher on the edge. Getting that Villanova kid in the second would be great. It doesn't have to be him but someone like him. Let him develop under Vernon and JPP on a cost controlled contract. When it is time for him to get paid then one of JPP and Vernon's contracts will be up if not both. This would allow us to really just pressure with 4 with having a nice rotation to keep our DEs fresh. JPP and Vernon are going break down real fast if they play as many snaps as they played this year. They need help.

With that in mind, Hankins cannot get big money. I think like all of out other DTs that have left they. Need to have a price and they need to stick to that. However, unlike some of our other DTs, I don't think the market will be that great for Hankins. I hope I am right.

Another poster brings up a good point about Snacks and his backup. Who would it be? Well, as much as I agree that Hankijs would be that guy I still dont 5hink that warrants a huge contract. We can say the same about Manning's backup, Beckham's backup, etc. If that happens you just have to roll with the bodies you have.

I would say JPP is priority number 1 and Hankins would be number 2B at a certain price range while being able to upgrade our OL as 2A. We don't have to go after the big fish in FA along the OL but we need an upgrade.
As Snacks said earlier in the year  
xwreckingxcrewx : 1/19/2017 5:42 pm : link
Unless you know specifically how the Giants want the DT's to play and what the game plan is, you can't evaluate a DT. For instance, I assume the game plan was to NOT to rush Rogers from the DT postion, BUT to instead, simply get a push and maintain lane discipline, which they accomplished.

What do the Giants want out of the DT position? I am not in the front office but I assume that the number 1 goal is stop the run and to get a push up the middle versus the pass and in this regards, the Giants had two reliable DT's that accomplished this.

I wouldn't overpay for Hankins, but I believe Hankins has the attributes desired by the Giants and those attributes may be hard to replace. Snacks cost a lot for a reason.
Bromley  
Les in TO : 1/19/2017 6:05 pm : link
to Hankins is a big drop off. I
Hard to figure who calls the personnel  
TMS : 1/19/2017 6:09 pm : link
decisions on this team. Since Reese claims it is a consensus decision. Letting Joseph ( who is good as Snacks) go for a very reasonable contract was a bad decision by the consensus. Drafting Bromley 2/3 rounds early is apparently also a consensus decision. So why do we need a Gm ? BS
The biggest thing about Hankins that I'd hate to lose out on  
adamg : 1/19/2017 6:20 pm : link
is the fact he's only 25. He's got his best football in front of him. That in itself is a lot of value to leave on the table. Plus, he's probably at his lowest value in terms of how analytics view him as he might ever be. In other words, signing him now might be the best bargain you can get on a guy like Hankins entering his prime.

I also want to throw out there that Snacks has said on at least two occasions that Hanks hasn't reached his potential AND that his physical potential is much higher than Snacks himself. He said something to the effect of 'I'm jealous of Hanks and want him to get better because he has more innate talent than me.' That makes me hesitant to just drop him in lieu of JPP.
NO  
old man : 1/19/2017 6:34 pm : link
And you don't let Hank walk, have someone locked up in FA at 4:00pm the first day of FA, or unless you are assured to draft Leonard Williams, Aaron Donald, or of that level, or gambled you would and did.
Hankins is young and a stud. His whole career is ahead of him  
PatersonPlank : 1/19/2017 7:09 pm : link
Why let him go? Why is the attitude of some that we should let a player go when they get good? Pay them.
What salary would people be comfortable with?  
WillVAB : 1/19/2017 8:12 pm : link
RE: Hankins? Because I don't feel like he'd get a ton on the open market. If I had to guess, 6-7 mil per.
RE: Hard to figure who calls the personnel  
djm : 1/19/2017 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13333182 TMS said:
Quote:
decisions on this team. Since Reese claims it is a consensus decision. Letting Joseph ( who is good as Snacks) go for a very reasonable contract was a bad decision by the consensus. Drafting Bromley 2/3 rounds early is apparently also a consensus decision. So why do we need a Gm ? BS


Joseph was never as good as snacks and never will be as good as snacks.
Cmon. Move on already the guy left the Giants three years ago.
To keep the Giants dominant they have to pay  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 1/19/2017 8:54 pm : link
The dominant players. OV did next to nothing when JPP went down. Hankins had a subpar and injury ridden 2015. In 2016 with a dominant DT next to him he still never regained 2014 form. Giants should pay a ton for him.
The only way I see them keeping both  
DavidinBMNY : 1/19/2017 10:14 pm : link
Is if they clean out a lot of veterans and eat some dead moneymaker. That means Jennings, vereen, Harris, Cruz are gone.

I would be OK with thathe although I would prefer to franchise Jpp vs. A long term deal. I don't love this most recent I jury and he has a long history of injuries now.
RE: To keep the Giants dominant they have to pay  
Mason : 1/20/2017 1:34 am : link
In comment 13333374 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
The dominant players. OV did next to nothing when JPP went down. Hankins had a subpar and injury ridden 2015. In 2016 with a dominant DT next to him he still never regained 2014 form. Giants should pay a ton for him.



That's the thing that bothered me all season. I was fully expecting to see a return of the 2014 version of Big Hank but for whatever reason he had issue with rushing the passer in 2016 like he did in 2015. But like someone mentioned maybe that's what Spags wanted since under Perry he rushed a lot more. I don't really want to see him walk though. Giants have to pay to keep them both.
RE: To keep the Giants dominant they have to pay  
area junc : 1/20/2017 10:19 am : link
In comment 13333374 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
The dominant players. OV did next to nothing when JPP went down. Hankins had a subpar and injury ridden 2015. In 2016 with a dominant DT next to him he still never regained 2014 form. Giants should pay a ton for him.


Wow - someone actually watches the games and comes up with an accurate assessment. Nice job - and I'll throw Mason in there too for agreeing.

The frustrating thing is that 2014 season: that's his upside. But he was known as a lazy player with weight issues at OSU and for whatever reason, he was unable to duplicate the '14 season in a contract year playing between 2 All Pros. Personally, I'd rather get a pass rusher at the 3 - nobody's running the ball with OV/Snacks/JPP up front. I don't really care who the other DT is.
RE: What salary would people be comfortable with?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/20/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13333311 WillVAB said:
Quote:
RE: Hankins? Because I don't feel like he'd get a ton on the open market. If I had to guess, 6-7 mil per.


I'd be willing to bet he gets at least 8. He will likely get somewhere between 8 and 9 imv.

Hankins is more replaceable than JPP. I'm expecting someone to overpay Hankins, I just don't see the Giants matching the market with so much cash tied up in the DL already.

JPP gets paid, Hankins leaves imo.

RE: RE: To keep the Giants dominant they have to pay  
David in LA : 1/20/2017 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13333620 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 13333374 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:


Quote:


The dominant players. OV did next to nothing when JPP went down. Hankins had a subpar and injury ridden 2015. In 2016 with a dominant DT next to him he still never regained 2014 form. Giants should pay a ton for him.




That's the thing that bothered me all season. I was fully expecting to see a return of the 2014 version of Big Hank but for whatever reason he had issue with rushing the passer in 2016 like he did in 2015. But like someone mentioned maybe that's what Spags wanted since under Perry he rushed a lot more. I don't really want to see him walk though. Giants have to pay to keep them both.


Both of you are spot on. Hankins is severely overrated around here. Good player, but he only has 1 very good season under his belt. Disappeared without JPP last year, and he was talking big this year about getting 16 sacks. JPP's are much harder to come by, and those are the guys you pay. Hankins is still important to what we do, but we've had a lot of success in refilling the cupboard at the DT position.
You can tell who doesn't know  
Giants2012 : 1/20/2017 8:25 pm : link
this was Hank's first year in a different position.
RE: younger, stronger, healthier  
Milton : 1/20/2017 9:00 pm : link
In comment 13332748 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
3 reasons you keep Hankins and let JPP walk. The 4th ($$) is a bonus reason.
Impact plays is the reason you keep JPP over Hankins.
JPP first  
GeoMan999 : 1/20/2017 9:16 pm : link
The positive impact of having JPP together with OV versus OV alone was evidenced this year. OV suffered greatly once JPP went down. JPP is a given.

RE: Not in my mind. Bromley's decent rotational DT,  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/20/2017 9:55 pm : link
In comment 13332616 yatqb said:
Quote:
but Hank was half of the reason teams could no longer run up our gut at will.

This. I don't know what Reese will do, but re-signing Hankins would be my first priority.
Gut feeling is Bromley is way too big of a drop-off from Hankins  
Jimmy Googs : 1/21/2017 8:59 am : link
It was so pleasurable watching our guys stop the run this year, even with our avg band of linebackers.

Reese would put that at risk for what?

If Bromley was good enough then you would have seen a real rotation in there at some point last season, and we didn't...
You don't break up arguably the best DT tandem in the league  
Big Blue '56 : 1/21/2017 9:05 am : link
that helped in a big way, us becoming one of the better Ds overnight (helped, I didn't say exclusively) for the CHANCE that, "there are other DTs out there that can be just as effective with Snacks." Not at Hankins' age..
I also struggle to think Hankins will get top-tier money  
Jimmy Googs : 1/21/2017 9:12 am : link
I realize with 31 other clubs, some team could get irrational but he is a bit more subdued in his performance to think he could anchor a line. We already know he can't.

But we do know he does a good job, in area we just fixed...

I think Robert Thomas  
area junc : 1/21/2017 6:36 pm : link
could fill in OK. I like him more than Bromley. He's got power.
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