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* Given: JPP franchise tag will cost $17M ....

Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 3:37 pm
* Given: Giants have 28 cap cushion ....

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/12/giants_jason_pierre-paul_franchise_tag_2017.html

(Will not likely sign 2017 franchise tag)

* Given : Victor Cruz will cost $9.4M

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/victor-cruz-8203/

* Given: JPP proved that he can still play at a high level (NFC player of week)

* Given: Cruz had best YPC average on team (15+)

* But, Giants defense was STILL dominant after JPP went to IR, this season

* But, even though Cruz showed he can still play, he's lost a step and his natural position is now manned by a terrific young player (Shepard)

With the money saved how about if we do the following:

- Go after and get big, fast receiver Alshon Jeffrey ( to compliment OBJ)

- Trade Victor (and our #3 pick) to the Browns for Joe Thomas

- Secure Hankins to multi-year deal

- Secure multi-year deals for other key players (like OBJ)

OK, gentlemen; thoughts, comments critiques ....

I wonder if anyone would give us a 7th for Cruz  
Go Terps : 1/19/2017 3:40 pm : link
I don't see us making a big splash addition to the OL. I think they'll sign JPP and a lesser name OL (like the guard from Dallas). I don't expect huge additions, and this FA market doesn't seem nearly as good as last year's.
Given:  
Giants56 : 1/19/2017 3:41 pm : link
Victor Cruz has negative trade value
VC has absolutely no trade value  
aquidneck : 1/19/2017 3:42 pm : link
No team is going to give you anything at all for the right to overpay him.
RE: I wonder if anyone would give us a 7th for Cruz  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2017 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13332972 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I don't see us making a big splash addition to the OL. I think they'll sign JPP and a lesser name OL (like the guard from Dallas). I don't expect huge additions, and this FA market doesn't seem nearly as good as last year's.


I agree, and we cant spend on anyone just to fill a hole, that's how bad teams stay bad.
Cruz has little to no trade value  
giants#1 : 1/19/2017 3:43 pm : link
.
I like getting  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/19/2017 3:45 pm : link
A big WR and a LT and locking up players for the future...

Not sure if your scenario plays out though
This  
Old Dirty Beckham : 1/19/2017 3:47 pm : link
JPP wont play for on the tag this is nonsense. I don't care what he says.

If the Giants slap JPP with the tag he'll either hold out and miss camp and then play or he'll sign a long term deal. He's not going to turn that money down. Let's be real.
Manny  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2017 3:50 pm : link
your starting to lose it in your old age brah!
RE: This  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13332987 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
JPP wont play for on the tag this is nonsense. I don't care what he says.

If the Giants slap JPP with the tag he'll either hold out and miss camp and then play or he'll sign a long term deal. He's not going to turn that money down. Let's be real.


Only a moron would have us believe they'd eschew the 17 million FT and sit out 10 games..Not happening. Hoping the FT isn't happening either
Our offensive line is THE reason we didn't advance ....  
Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 3:54 pm : link

The defense is fixed, we need a REAL left side tackle, a REAL tight end, a REAL wide-out receiver (opposite OBJ) ....

All of those needs may have to come out of free agency.

JPP has PROVEN that he can still play at a ver high level and is EAGER to get paid (like he did before he blew off his fingers)

THAT is reality.
You're getting ZERO..  
BillKo : 1/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
for Victor Cruz.

Any other way you slice it, you're just kidding yourself.
Cruz and a three...  
BillKo : 1/19/2017 3:56 pm : link
for Thomas.

Do you think that's actually fair?

Look at it from Cleveland's perspective.
.  
Danny Kanell : 1/19/2017 4:15 pm : link
Manny being Manny.
RE: Cruz and a three...  
HoustonGiant : 1/19/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13333005 BillKo said:
Quote:
for Thomas.

Do you think that's actually fair?

Look at it from Cleveland's perspective.


If you could get Thomas for that, it would be a miracle!!!

Cruz will be around league minimum for some other team next year.
RE: This  
geelabee : 1/19/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13332987 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
JPP wont play for on the tag this is nonsense. I don't care what he says.

If the Giants slap JPP with the tag he'll either hold out and miss camp and then play or he'll sign a long term deal. He's not going to turn that money down. Let's be real.


No brainer...it puts the Giants in a position to trade JPP for picks in case talks break down or they can't come to a deal...the dumbest thing the Giants can do is watching the 3rd best overall DE talent thats relatively young go sign in Dallas (or a # of other teams) for absolutely nothing...I am hoping the Giants and JPP come to an agreement otherwise want to see the Giants get the maximum # of picks possible as a return for JPP leaving.
RE: Our offensive line is THE reason we didn't advance ....  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/19/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13333002 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

The defense is fixed


Assuming this going into next season is very risky.

I bet you were one of those that probably said the offense was a given for 2016 after the final game of the 2015 season and we saw what happened.



RE: RE: Our offensive line is THE reason we didn't advance ....  
Go Terps : 1/19/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13333059 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 13333002 Manny in CA said:


Quote:



The defense is fixed



Assuming this going into next season is very risky.

I bet you were one of those that probably said the offense was a given for 2016 after the final game of the 2015 season and we saw what happened.




This X a million.
Cruz is done  
giantgiantfan : 1/19/2017 4:47 pm : link
he has no trade value, if the Giants were to outright cut him he'd get signed for the vet minimum and have to battle for a roster spot. That's what he is at this point.

JPP must be resigned. Hankins probably needs to be resigned as well. Some of you say we can stick Bromley or Thomas next to Snacks, but what if Snacks goes down? Then your DTs are Bromley + Thomas, and if you didn't resig JPP either you are looking at Okwara + Bromley + Thomas + OV. Say hello to 2015 again.

Put money in the lines.
What if we package Cruz with Nassib and  
Mad Mike : 1/19/2017 4:50 pm : link
the first rd pick we got from New Orleans? There's got to be some nice value to be had for that.
ballpark estimate  
Rocky369 : 1/19/2017 5:06 pm : link
that's probably worth a second rounder back to NO
RE: RE: Our offensive line is THE reason we didn't advance ....  
giantsfan44ab : 1/19/2017 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13333059 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 13333002 Manny in CA said:


Quote:



The defense is fixed



Assuming this going into next season is very risky.

I bet you were one of those that probably said the offense was a given for 2016 after the final game of the 2015 season and we saw what happened.




Yup. I genuinely believe we had the best defense this season. This stuff doesn't stay tcomsistent year to year. Don't think we'all be bad by any means but we can't ignore it. There are holes in the defense and it will show up next year if nothing is done.
Cruz  
AcidTest : 1/19/2017 5:28 pm : link
is done. He'll likely be cut, and not get more than the vet minimum and a camp invite as someone said.

I wouldn't pay JPP $17M a year.
Cruz had a high YPC  
MetsAreBack : 1/19/2017 5:34 pm : link

...in part because he caught only 54% of the targets thrown his way.
If Bromley is so good  
greatgrandpa : 1/19/2017 5:38 pm : link
Why didn't he beat out Big Hank this year? If Reece repeats his Linval mistake...
Could Cruz have more value than we think-  
xwreckingxcrewx : 1/19/2017 5:49 pm : link
but as a slot receiver? Giants don't need a slot receiver, but other teams do- could Cruz still be that guy?

Would BBI trade Flowers for Thomas? Giants get the LT they need- albeit at a higher salary....Browns get a still VERY YOUNG football player that they can develop and take a chance on. I don't think I would trade Flowers for Thomas, but I think I'd make that deal if I was the Browns.
The Defense Thrives by stopping the run  
Bluesbreaker : 1/19/2017 5:53 pm : link
And Rushing the Passer He has become an inspiration and
a Leader the pass Rush declined after he left and was
non existent in the playoffs .
RE: Could Cruz have more value than we think-  
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13333155 xwreckingxcrewx said:
Quote:
but as a slot receiver?


Not more than I think...
It's all about money, and fithe gigantic holes we have on offense ....  
Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 7:48 pm : link

(I listed them).

It wouldn't surprise me to see JPP in the Pro Bowl,next year, but can we afford him ?

If we can make him someone else's problem by trading him for draft picks (right after we offer him a franchise deal - $17M, and he rejects it). That would be a win, I agree.

We might have to eat some dead money by dumping Cruz (if indeed we can't trade him), but we desperately need a compliment to OBJ, that other team respect.
RE: It's all about money, and fithe gigantic holes we have on offense ....  
Diver_Down : 1/19/2017 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13333274 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

(I listed them).

It wouldn't surprise me to see JPP in the Pro Bowl,next year, but can we afford him ?

If we can make him someone else's problem by trading him for draft picks (right after we offer him a franchise deal - $17M, and he rejects it). That would be a win, I agree.


If he rejects the deal and doesn't sign the FT, how do you propose trading a player's rights that's not under contract?
It's all about money, and fithe gigantic holes we have on offense ....  
Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 8:12 pm : link

(I listed them).

It wouldn't surprise me to see JPP in the Pro Bowl,next year, but can we afford him ?

If we can make him someone else's problem by trading him for draft picks (right after we offer him a franchise deal - $17M, and he rejects it). That would be a win, I agree.

We might have to eat some dead money by dumping Cruz (if indeed we can't trade him), but we desperately need a compliment to OBJ, that other team respect.
RE: It's all about money, and fithe gigantic holes we have on offense ....  
aquidneck : 1/19/2017 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13333274 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

(I listed them).

It wouldn't surprise me to see JPP in the Pro Bowl,next year, but can we afford him ?

If we can make him someone else's problem by trading him for draft picks (right after we offer him a franchise deal - $17M, and he rejects it). That would be a win, I agree.

We might have to eat some dead money by dumping Cruz (if indeed we can't trade him), but we desperately need a compliment to OBJ, that other team respect.


I think you're thinking about this wrong, Manny. JPP is not under contract. If you franchise him at $17mm, the team that trades for him is on the hook for the money. Not going to get ANY draft choices in this scenario.

If I'm a team that wants JPP, I bid against the Giants. I don't give up draft choices for the privilege of paying him top dollar.
I stand corrected .....  
Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 9:16 pm : link
Aquidneck.
If I'm jpp  
DavidinBMNY : 1/19/2017 10:17 pm : link
I run to the bank with my one and a 1/2 hands and sign that $17 million check.
Last week I set the initial over/under number of JPP threads  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 1/19/2017 10:49 pm : link
before he signs a contract at 60. I'm going to up that to 75.
RE: I wonder if anyone would give us a 7th for Cruz  
Giants2012 : 1/19/2017 10:57 pm : link
why would a team trade a 7th for a questionable receiver making approx $9 million?

Maybe, as some have suggested ....  
Manny in CA : 1/19/2017 11:38 pm : link

Best thing to do is let him test the waters; we might get him, anyways say for $14M (or less).

He's very talented (and probably very determined to cash-in big) because as he's stated he's "proven" himself.

I just don't want the Giants thinking it's "the end of the world" if can't get him back.
It is the end of the world if they let JPP go.?  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 1/20/2017 1:45 am : link
Teams spend years looking for one defensive playmaker and we have two bookends and we let one go?

That hurts the other DE, as well. If you have two, and you let one go, well, they can only double team one of the ends. JPPs eight passes batted away at the line of scrimmage and his blocked field goal are all the result of his being a superb athlete. Vernon had eight of his eight and 1/2 sacks during the 12 games that JPP played in.

Five defensive starters make first or second AP All-Pro, and we're going to let a previous 1st team All-Pro go? Add JPP and Apple to those five and we might have one of the great defenses in NFL history.

We have to face Dak twice a year and go through Rodgers again to get to the Super Bowl. We have no one remotely close to replacing JPP. Nobody dreamt that we would be blessed with all three of Reese's free agent signings turning into All-Pros, or that Collins would wipe away his first season and look like a player builder.

Sorry for the rant, but I survived the 17 year period of no post-season with the Giants, and everything changed when they just drafted one player: LT.
JPP  
Percy : 1/20/2017 10:10 am : link
Might be the year to part ways with him if the Giants can trade up for either of the top two DE picks in the draft (assuming those DEs do as well in the Combine as their playing careers suggests they should). Quelle surprise, eh?
JPP  
stretch234 : 1/20/2017 10:37 am : link
If the franchise cost is 17M which is guaranteed, it makes it much easier to view a 4 year contract with 30-32 guaranteed.

They do not let DE's go. They held on to Osi and Tuck who 32 & 31. JPP will play 2017 at 28
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