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The name I keep coming back to is Alex Van Pelt, currently the quarterbacks coach of the Green Bay Packers. Why Van Pelt? Because of his connection to McAdoo in Green Bay, his experience with the offense the Giants run, and because a coordinator job seems to be the next logical move for him. Van Pelt was offensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills in 2009, taking over right before the beginning of the season. He has been in Green Bay since 2012, first as running backs coach and then as quarterbacks coach after McAdoo left for the Giants. So, Van Pelt has an existing relationship with McAdoo, several seasons of having coached in the Green Bay/New York scheme and a year of play-calling experience. Van Pelt also has the endorsement of Packers’ quarterback Aaron Rodgers: "We’ve worked together for a few years now, and I just have a lot of respect for him as a coach, as a person, as a confidant. He’s a great game day manager, giving me exactly what I need and nothing more. ... He’s a great coach. There’s no reason why his name shouldn’t be about there for coordinator spots right now." I’m not endorsing or recommending Van Pelt to replace Sullivan, just pointing out that he seems like a logical candidate should the Giants want to move in a new direction. |
I assume his job was largely watching film and assisting McAdoo prepare a game plan for upcoming opponents. Can anyone looking at it from the outside know if he did a good job or not?
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
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do as regards Sullivan. But, it has been discussed a lot (PC, OC duties and so on) on here.
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
It wouldn't necessarily have happened yet. What if, for argument sake, Van Pelt was Ben's choice? He's still in the playoffs with the Pack..
His name is Mike Sullivan. Secondly to pin the failures of Tampa Bay as all being on him when he actually had a productive season with Josh Freeman as QB is short sighted
Sullivan isn't a WCO guy.
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In comment 13333275 Big Blue '56 said:
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do as regards Sullivan. But, it has been discussed a lot (PC, OC duties and so on) on here.
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
It wouldn't necessarily have happened yet. What if, for argument sake, Van Pelt was Ben's choice? He's still in the playoffs with the Pack..
Do teams not fire HCs or coordinators until a guy becomes avaliable? No. Coaches are let go if they are not wanted. It helps them land a job. It isnt how the Giants work. That would be a complete dick move to release Sullivan this late after most jobs are filled.
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In comment 13333280 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 13333275 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
do as regards Sullivan. But, it has been discussed a lot (PC, OC duties and so on) on here.
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
It wouldn't necessarily have happened yet. What if, for argument sake, Van Pelt was Ben's choice? He's still in the playoffs with the Pack..
Do teams not fire HCs or coordinators until a guy becomes avaliable? No. Coaches are let go if they are not wanted. It helps them land a job. It isnt how the Giants work. That would be a complete dick move to release Sullivan this late after most jobs are filled.
For all we know, he's been told his new assignment is to return to being Eli's QB coach.
Valentine presented a valid opinion on a possible new OC, made a logical if not compelling point and that's what I'd prefer to discuss, not whether they would already have done it which you state as fact or that, iyo, it would be a dick move without knowing, if any private arrangements have been made.
I'm more willing to give McAdoo a pass than Sullivan considering McAdoo had good or decent offenses two years in a row.
While McAdoo may call plays in game, Sullivan is responsible for everything else from scouting defenses to prep work and in game adjustments.
Sullivan screamed last resort or the unfortunate "familiarity" hire the Giants turn to a little too often when they can't find the right fit or the guys they want go elsewhere. Sullivan was clearly not at the top of the list for OC.
Because the offense was awful this year and he has no experience in the offense McAdoo wants to run. Perhaps McAdoo wants to give up play calling but won't do it unless he has someone as OC who has experience in the offense he wants to run.
I dont know how much of the problem was sullivan this year, but we had better personnel on offense in 2016 than we did in 2015 and the offense was significantly worse.
I don't know how timing works, if it's always immediately after the season or if they take some time to debrief, but I could see some shakeups or at least I wouldn't be surprised either way.
I'm more willing to give McAdoo a pass than Sullivan considering McAdoo had good or decent offenses two years in a row.
While McAdoo may call plays in game, Sullivan is responsible for everything else from scouting defenses to prep work and in game adjustments.
Sullivan screamed last resort or the unfortunate "familiarity" hire the Giants turn to a little too often when they can't find the right fit or the guys they want go elsewhere. Sullivan was clearly not at the top of the list for OC.
Boom. Agree 100%. Just an odd hire.
You can't tell me we shouldn't be exploring a new OC if one is available that BM feels can make a difference.
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until he went to Tampa, and pretty much everything he's touched since has turned to crap. I have no idea how much of that was his fault, but I think he needs another success on his resume really fast or he's going to look like football's embodiment of the Peter Principle -- a coach who was promoted to his level of incompetence.
His name is Mike Sullivan. Secondly to pin the failures of Tampa Bay as all being on him when he actually had a productive season with Josh Freeman as QB is short sighted
I'm not pinning the failures at Tampa Bay on him. But you know, in the NFL like in any business, a hot talent can cool off fast without continuing success. It happened to Spags. It happened to Jim Fassel (yeah, I know, there's more to it than that). It's a performance business, and for a coach, the performance is really how well the players play. If you coach great and they play bad, you're screwed.
Sullivan was TB OC in 2012 & 2013. Both TB and NYG offenses, who were running similar/same systems crashed in 2013. Both were good in 2012.
Again- Not sure what he adds as an OC.
I'm more willing to give McAdoo a pass than Sullivan considering McAdoo had good or decent offenses two years in a row.
While McAdoo may call plays in game, Sullivan is responsible for everything else from scouting defenses to prep work and in game adjustments.
Sullivan screamed last resort or the unfortunate "familiarity" hire the Giants turn to a little too often when they can't find the right fit or the guys they want go elsewhere. Sullivan was clearly not at the top of the list for OC.
Spot on.
Van Pelt seems like a much better fit if the Giants can cut ties with Sullivan.
It may not be fair but it does make sense. McAdoo needs a foil, some one who can challenge him, offer alternatives, and innovate. Sullivan has neither the experience nor the knowledge of the WCO to play that role. Coughlin was an experienced offensive minded coach who could challenge Mc Adoo and offer alternatives even if he wasn't a WCO mind. Sullivan may not be the main problem but he probably isn't the solution either.
I assume his job was largely watching film and assisting McAdoo prepare a game plan for upcoming opponents. Can anyone looking at it from the outside know if he did a good job or not?
That's typically the OQC role. I think people are assuming that Sullivan had a relatively small role in the game plan because BMc called the plays. But if that's the case, it still doesn't serve as an endorsement of Sullivan. Either he did a poor job, or his role was far below his title. And it's very possible that it's both.
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In comment 13333280 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13333275 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
do as regards Sullivan. But, it has been discussed a lot (PC, OC duties and so on) on here.
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
It wouldn't necessarily have happened yet. What if, for argument sake, Van Pelt was Ben's choice? He's still in the playoffs with the Pack..
Do teams not fire HCs or coordinators until a guy becomes avaliable? No. Coaches are let go if they are not wanted. It helps them land a job. It isnt how the Giants work. That would be a complete dick move to release Sullivan this late after most jobs are filled.
How many OC jobs are filled? Unless you think he's a HC candidate. I can't see that being remotely realistic.
Quote:
do as regards Sullivan. But, it has been discussed a lot (PC, OC duties and so on) on here.
With that in mind, it's worthy of discussion imv, whether based in reality or not, much like our FA leanings..
1. If it was going to happen then it would have happened already.
2. If McAdoo hired him then he is not going to be fired since McAdoo basically ran the offense and knew what Sullivan would bring to the table.
3. If McAdoo didn't hire him then he will not have the ability to fire him.
I don't see a rational situation where Sullivan wpuld be let go.
They would not have done it yet if Van Pelt was the choice. GB is still in the playoffs.
He's the boogie man for all the people who want to give McAdoo a total pass. Like he was sabotagingthe offense. McAdoo's side of the Ball was a disaster. Somehow a guy who didn't make the play calls, didn't make roster decisions or position choices needs to go.
Like McAdoo? The reason the Giants won was the D. When McAdoo was was given Total control of the offense it fell apart. Now the Mara's love McAdoo but if the offense is upgraded and the play calling, player development and results still suck why is it Sullivan who's at fault? He's not the guy making all the major decisions on the offense.
The amount of "gossip" or conjecture it has generated is Phenomenal.
....and still no one really knows "anything for sure.
My hat's off to you gentlemen in making a huge something from absolutely nothing.
Reading all this with a cynical eye..it becomes hilarious.
Thank you for an entertaining read.
You offered nothing but speculation........I learned nothing about the Giants
but I had a good time.
The amount of "gossip" or conjecture it has generated is Phenomenal.
....and still no one really knows "anything for sure.
My hat's off to you gentlemen in making a huge something from absolutely nothing.
Reading all this with a cynical eye..it becomes hilarious.
Thank you for an entertaining read.
You offered nothing but speculation........I learned nothing about the Giants
but I had a good time.
Instead of being a wiseacre, why not address the speculation. That's all that it is..A discussion exercise in the qualifications of Alex Van Pelt. Would it be a good fit? How's his resume? Does it stack up?
We speculate about and discuss FA, what the draft might bring, etc..None of it is anything more than that. No one's saying what McAdoo will or will not do. We have no idea, but we can speculate and discuss. That's what we do here
Seriously though, the only way Sullivan should leave if he chooses to.
Big Blue Blogger : 1/11/2017 9:32 am : link
...the big question is what comes next. One obvious candidate is Alex Van Pelt, who worked alongside McAdoo in Green Bay and succeeded him as QB coach. I don't know what kind of relationship they have, or how well regarded Van Pelt is in the McCarthy tree.
Mike McCarthy runs his offensive staff as a braintrust (with himself at the top), and rotates the coaches through different roles. Van Pelt has previously coached the Green Bay RBs, and divided his time between WRs and QBs in 2015. He's not all that high on the official org chart, with AHC-Offense Tom Clements and OC Edgar Bennett outranking him. So Sullivan's job would be a clear promotion.
Van Pelt's one season as Offensive Coordinator in Buffalo was a mess, but so was the whole team. Van Pelt replaced Turk Schonert just before the start of the season, and Dick Jauron was fired in November. (Our old friend Perry Fewell took over, earning respect around the League for his work as Interim HC on a sinking ship.) The next year, he seems to have done a pretty good job with Josh Freeman in Tampa, though I think he was still around when Freeman regressed in 2011.
I'm sure there are other, stronger possibilities. If McAdoo were reaching back to his roots, though, Van Pelt would rate an interview.
Damn - I may have dislocated my shoulder while patting myself on the back. ;o)
Seriously, though - I remember playing this "six degrees of separation" game whenever Coughlin had a vacancy to fill. Often it worked (Hufnagel, Gilbride, Merritt, Sullivan, Palmieri, Fewell, etc.); just as often it didn't, but even in some of those cases, Coughlin was reported to have unsuccessfully pursued a past subordinate.