I ask because if the TE had speed and the ability to be a pass catching weapon, would you draft him high, even if his blocking skills are terrible ?
I agree that a 2-way ability is the best. However, my question pertains to how important is the blocking, if the TE has all-pro catching ability.
Also - how do you think the Giants view this? Would they pass on a pass catching TE just because of poor blocking ability ?
It matters but nobody is passing over a guy with perceived high level talent.
Because that has worked so well with Donnell, Tye, Robinson, etc. It isn't that easy.
You have to want to block. You can teach the technique, but to put your grill in there and do it....that's just desire, and sacrifice.
That's why guys today can't do it......they are exposed to it at the college level. Spread offenses, it's more catching the ball and getting into space.
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And teach him to block
Because that has worked so well with Donnell, Tye, Robinson, etc. It isn't that easy.
I wouldn't know, but would you agree with Papa's statement that many of the prime TEs in college do not really block, that, that's what colleges are turning out now?
Agreed, it's cyclical, like most things.
Even QBs aren't huddling and calling plays....everything is no huddle, calling at the LOS, and spread formations.
Eventually, someone will start going back to the "old" way....have success..and it will trend back that way.
Always does.
So yes it's very important and that's why true 2 way TE's are so hard to find...
There are very few TE's in the league that are two way TE's......we need a TE that is good, at least in either aspect....we have neither......
A guy like Tye can get you YAC if he is open on a seam pass....a short pass pattern and he gets you nothing, because he is so slow out of a break, and then accelerating again....
Adams looks more fluid, but what will he be like if he bulks up more? And can he bulk up? I will say one thing for him, he did not miss blocks like the other guys, he just didn't have the bulk to be effective doing it....
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And teach him to block
You have to want to block. You can teach the technique, but to put your grill in there and do it....that's just desire, and sacrifice.
That's why guys today can't do it......they are exposed to it at the college level. Spread offenses, it's more catching the ball and getting into space.
Blocking for a TE in football is analogous to a forward
or center in basketball rebounding. You have to want to do it, have the desire and chutzpah!
As others have mentioned, spread offenses in college,
have decreased the in line blocking. They are not polished
as blockers coming out now. I cringe when I hear the expression, 'he is a willing blocker', translation,
he can't block.
The Giants offense still lacks an official identity. I'd love a play maker at TE and would teal with a lack of blocking, but I'd also sign up for Shiancoe v 2.0 who you never have to worry about when running the ball and over time can possibly develop into a weapon.
Giants have had nothing like either of the above in what seems like ages (really since Shiancoe left I guess). We've seen glimpses here and there with Boss or Ballard, but injuries or overall lack of talent got the best of both of them.
I haven't studied the players enough. Obviously you have Howard and Njoku (sp.). I know Howard is regarded as the better blocker but Njoku or Njoko seems to have a better built lower body.
One thing that really bothered me and I don't know if bothered is the right word but that is all I can come up with. Why wasn't Beatty used as a blocking TE? The majority of our runs this year were inside the tackles. Our tackles were so poor at blocking that we were never able to get the edge of any defense. A TE plays a huge part in that as well. We never made the defense defend us sideline to sideline. That is one great thing about Chip Kelly and why guys like Coughlin and Belichick respect him. You can argue how Kelly runs his up tempo offense but there is a mentality behind it. It is about tiring out the opposing defense. It is about stretching oit the defense and creating gaps in the run game and in the coverage. It is making a defense defend sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the end zone. We fell way short in this area.
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And teach him to block
Because that has worked so well with Donnell, Tye, Robinson, etc. It isn't that easy.
These are actually poor examples in fairness. None of them were noteworthy when they came onto the team. They were all more known for being athletic than for actually being good receiving tight ends.
It isn't as if the Giants drafted someone like Zach Ertz or
Tyler Eifert and failed to incorporate them into the offense. We haven't had any tight end on the roster with that level of talent since Jeremy Shockey.
This is the same mistake they made for years with the LB corps.
They need to stop doing this. Bite the bullet and go get a real tight end for once.
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This is the same mistake they made for years with the LB corps.
They need to stop doing this. Bite the bullet and go get a real tight end for once.
Good point. When they had pluggers like Ballard, Boss and even Bear Pascoe they were able to make them into useful players because they were FOOTBALL PLAYERS, not wannabe Olympians. The "JPP of TE" types never amount to anything.
I also agree that we need a better approach in terms of how we acquire these guys
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caliber tight ends and it has failed time and time again.
This is the same mistake they made for years with the LB corps.
They need to stop doing this. Bite the bullet and go get a real tight end for once.
Good point. When they had pluggers like Ballard, Boss and even Bear Pascoe they were able to make them into useful players because they were FOOTBALL PLAYERS, not wannabe Olympians. The "JPP of TE" types never amount to anything.
Wasn't that when we also had the TE coach whose name escapes me that went to the Cowboys? That was a huge loss, imo.
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In comment 13333816 Brown Recluse said:
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caliber tight ends and it has failed time and time again.
This is the same mistake they made for years with the LB corps.
They need to stop doing this. Bite the bullet and go get a real tight end for once.
Good point. When they had pluggers like Ballard, Boss and even Bear Pascoe they were able to make them into useful players because they were FOOTBALL PLAYERS, not wannabe Olympians. The "JPP of TE" types never amount to anything.
Wasn't that when we also had the TE coach whose name escapes me that went to the Cowboys? That was a huge loss, imo.
yeah that too. Good old Mike Pope. Developed UDFA (Mowatt), 4th round pick (Bavaro), 7th Round Pick (Cross), 5th Round pick (Boss) UDFA (Ballard) and a castoff 6th round pick (Pascoe) into at minimum useful, and in some cases exceptional players.
Who is the last real 2 way TE drafted - K. Rudolph
J. Reed is 240 lbs - he lines up off the LOS when he is in the game. None of the Eagles TE block. Atlanta TE dont block, Fleener in NO doesn't block, J. Cook does not block, G. Olson, E. Ebron, etc, etc.
The issue is really how the Giants see the TE - if they keep trying to find a 2 way TE they are going to find it late in the draft or UDFA. If they want to get a receiver first, they are going to have to use a higher pick. That is where those guys are drafted.
Howard looks the part but plays less than he looks. The Miami TE is 240 lbs - he is not playing in the NFL on the LOS
They aren't a priority because they spread people out in college, so the pro offense is almost extinct.
He's well past his prime, but Vernon Davis was a good blocker as well.
It matters but nobody is passing over a guy with perceived high level talent.
^This.
He's well past his prime, but Vernon Davis was a good blocker as well.
Vernon is good at both.. I don't know why he hasn't succeded in the Pro's.. but when he flashes he looks unstoppable.. How can the redskins, Pats and Steelers have multiple TEs better than our best?
We can't even teach our linemen to block.
As far as the need for a blocking TE, it didn't seem necessary for the Chargers and Saints all these years. But ironically, it seems like Seattle is paying the price right now for Jimmy Graham's lack of blocking ability.
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So with that said, does anyone not think this oftense would function a lot better with a good blocking TE, with Will Johnson at FB, with a couple of free agent OL and a big back (not RJ) to pound the ball?
Aside from Myers being incapable of blocking, he was also not a good receiver. He could sit down in the zone and catch a pass if everybody ignored him, but he couldn't break free from tight coverage nor fight for the ball and win.