NFT: Knicks Chat: KOQ/Spurs fit?

There's no way on Earth Riles does that first one.

In comment 13334193 Deej said:
[quote] if we could geta top 3 pick. Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox -- give me any of them. Use the #2s to get some gritty wing defenders. You have a team. [/quote

I like that...there are about 11 shittier teams than the Knicks at this moment. Knicks need to chop into that -- 4-5 teams are within striking distance and that's not counting the sixers who are charging. Let's get to 5-6 range please.

Tank.

In comment 13334217 DanMetroMan said:

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1. Melo and Jennings to Miami for Dragic, Winslow and Ellington 2. Melo, Jennings, Ndour for Gibson, Mirotic, Rondo and a 2017 #1 3. Melo, Plumlee for Love/Liggins 4. Melo, Plumlee for Jordan, Bass and Anderson 5. Melo, Ndour, Plumlee for the Nets 1st, Crowder, Jerebko, Crowder (I'd do #5 in a millisecond, I suspect Ainge would hang up the phone). I'd do #2 as well, I'd probably do #3 because we get younger but our defense... yikes. Melo and Griffin seem like a terrible fit to me.

Yes
Yes
No
Why waste our time
Yes(although we can only take 1 crowder)

In comment 13334221 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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There's no way on Earth Riles does that first one.

Most realistic would probably be the Bulls and Cavs deals. None are likely though.

and even that is far fetched.

is expiring, Mirotic isn't that good and will be an RFA and the Bulls want to be rid of Rondo. I think the Bulls one is the only true "hmm might make SOME sense" move

I think you do Melo for Love in a heartbeat, and then flip Love quickly. Love is a more valuable asset due to age, NTC status, and good play this season.

theory the Bulls could see Wade/Melo/Butler as a trio they can try and win without having to give up anything "big" for a Carmelo Anthony (currently the Bulls pick 14th and Melo likely helps their pick fall into the late teens/20's

think the Lakers would be in on Love, they are being tied to every "star" and Love is from there.

going to trade Anthony, getting anything less than a lottery pick is pretty poor. I think Melo still demands a really good return, he's shown he still has the ability to put up 40 on any given night. I wouldn't just trade him for basically the 25th pick and a few guys. Makes no sense to me.

In comment 13334234 Deej said:

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I think you do Melo for Love in a heartbeat, and then flip Love quickly. Love is a more valuable asset due to age, NTC status, and good play this season.

Fair point if the goal is to then flip Love, but then they'd just do a 3 way and get the assets themselves.

In comment 13334249 ryanmkeane said:

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going to trade Anthony, getting anything less than a lottery pick is pretty poor. I think Melo still demands a really good return, he's shown he still has the ability to put up 40 on any given night. I wouldn't just trade him for basically the 25th pick and a few guys. Makes no sense to me.

Well yeah, except for the fact that he has 0 40-point games this season. Anthony is not what he used to be. He's a good shooter who still takes bad shots and doesn't help out a ton elsewhere. He doesn't have a lot of value at all. Then factor in that he has a NTC and can block anything and you can't be picky in what you get.

In comment 13334235 DanMetroMan said:

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theory the Bulls could see Wade/Melo/Butler as a trio they can try and win without having to give up anything "big" for a Carmelo Anthony (currently the Bulls pick 14th and Melo likely helps their pick fall into the late teens/20's

That is a terrible trio that just doesn't fit together, especially without a PG that can distribute.

getting suspended, I think the Melo/Love thing would have happened by now. Some of us were talking about that going back well over a year. Just made so much sense for everyone.

In comment 13334258 Keith said:

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In comment 13334249 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Well yeah, except for the fact that he has 0 40-point games this season. Anthony is not what he used to be. He's a good shooter who still takes bad shots and doesn't help out a ton elsewhere. He doesn't have a lot of value at all. Then factor in that he has a NTC and can block anything and you can't be picky in what you get.

Christ dude, sorry. Will you settle for 35...36? He just put up 25 points in a quarter.

saying Anthony has hardly any value at all?

In comment 13334265 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 13334258 Keith said: Quote: In comment 13334249 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Well yeah, except for the fact that he has 0 40-point games this season. Anthony is not what he used to be. He's a good shooter who still takes bad shots and doesn't help out a ton elsewhere. He doesn't have a lot of value at all. Then factor in that he has a NTC and can block anything and you can't be picky in what you get. Christ dude, sorry. Will you settle for 35...36? He just put up 25 points in a quarter.

Yeah and he was terrible the other 3 quarters. He's just not that guy anymore. Where do I get off saying that? I guess I just live in reality.

In comment 13334230 DanMetroMan said:

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is expiring, Mirotic isn't that good and will be an RFA and the Bulls want to be rid of Rondo. I think the Bulls one is the only true "hmm might make SOME sense" move

that Bulls trade would be awful. I'd rather just keep Melo. Rondo has negative value at this point. If the Bulls just wanted to trade him by himself they'd have to attached at least a #1 to get someone to swallow his contract for next season. Sot that leaves you with Gibson and Mirotic...both of whom need to be signed? Pass.

Yeah that's a terrible trade for both parties.

Just replace Morris with Melo in the starting lineup.

Maybe Melo, KOQ for Mahinimi, oubre and a 1st. Not really much value but id consider compared to half of those proposed deals.

And if Orlando is that desperate for a PG I'd try flipping Rose to Orlando and maybe get Hezonja and some other misfits. He doesn't solve their shooting issues but Rose is more than a few steps up from Payton.

In comment 13334288 giantsfan44ab said:

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Maybe Melo, KOQ for Mahinimi, oubre and a 1st. Not really much value but id consider compared to half of those proposed deals.

I wouldnt give KOQ for that package, let alone Melo and KOQ. Honestly, I'd have to think pretty hard about whether I'd give Plumlee for that package. I dont like Mahinimi's contract, especially with a potentially untradable Noah already here. That would be like 33 million or so for Noah and IM to play center (when you already have Willy and KP) -- blech.

Step 1: Unload Rose and Courtney Lee

Rose and Lee for Jeff Green (expiring, salary filler), Hezonja and Vucevic.

Reason Magic would do it is if they are looking to trade a first rounder and Vuc to get dragic (who I don't think is anymore of a "true" point guard than either Payton or Rose). IMO rose is better than dragic but anyways they get a solid SG option in addition and the Knicks get a young prospect in Hezonja and clear $15M a year in future cap space.

Step 2: Unload Noah

Trade Noah for Rubio and Muhammad.

Don't have to spend $150M in the offseason on a mediocre PG when we can get a slightly below average one for less than half the annual value.


Step 3: Unload Melo

Melo, Holiday and KOQ for Mahinimi (salary filler), Oubre, Nicholson and a 1st.

This is really a last resort trade and it would be 40 cents on the dollar. The first isn't going to be that great. Nicholson is just salary filler. Oubre is a 20 year old wing. This just allows the Knicks to hit the reset button and get SOMETHING out of getting rid of Melo. And yeah I know, we throw in KOQ but I honestly don't know if Washington would trade away a prospect and a first round pick without getting some depth. I think they would agree to it but who knows. It allows the Knicks to tank for maybe a top 6-7 pick.


So in summary, we would have 3 young wing players (Oubre, Muhammad, Hezonja), Vucevic, Nicholson, Mahinimi and Rubio. Pretty much just rearranging options in the frontcourt but we clear a lot of salary in the front court and get some prospects, and tank. It's also ideal for having Rubio. You got two bigs that can space the floor. Not good for defense but rebounding wouldn't be an issue. Ideally we'd flip Vucevic sooner or later to allow more time for Willy at C.

In comment 13334335 Deej said:

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In comment 13334288 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: Maybe Melo, KOQ for Mahinimi, oubre and a 1st. Not really much value but id consider compared to half of those proposed deals. I wouldnt give KOQ for that package, let alone Melo and KOQ. Honestly, I'd have to think pretty hard about whether I'd give Plumlee for that package. I dont like Mahinimi's contract, especially with a potentially untradable Noah already here. That would be like 33 million or so for Noah and IM to play center (when you already have Willy and KP) -- blech.

You wouldn't flip plumlee for Oubre?

Our team would be:

PG: Rubio, Jennings, Baker
SG: Hezonja, Oubre
SF: Kuz, Muhammad, Nicholson
PF: KP, Vuc, Green
C: Willy, mahinimi, plumlee

Plus 2 first rounders and maybe get a couple of 2nd rounders to sweeten the deal.

Just ballparking the salaries going forward:

Between Rubio, Vuc, Mahinimi and Nicholson that's a little less than $50M a year. Let's just give Shabazz $10M a year for now. KP, Willy, Hezonja, Oubre, and Kuz would be around $15-20M.

So we'd be at less than $80M in cap so room to give out a max. I don't think it would be hard to find a team that would take Vuc as a scoring big off the bench.

In comment 13334362 giantsfan44ab said:

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You wouldn't flip plumlee for Oubre?

I would. But the offer you laid out had us taking back a massive contract with Oubre. Im not sure Oubre and a late #1 is worth it for that contract. I really dont like that contract for the Knicks, if they're stuck with it (not clear to me whether it can be moved).

In comment 13334383 Deej said:

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In comment 13334362 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: You wouldn't flip plumlee for Oubre? I would. But the offer you laid out had us taking back a massive contract with Oubre. Im not sure Oubre and a late #1 is worth it for that contract. I really dont like that contract for the Knicks, if they're stuck with it (not clear to me whether it can be moved).

Well In conjunction with the other moves I laid out we'd be around the same cap number going forward. But we'd have Rubio so in essence that's $30M a year we don't have to spend on rose or jrue holiday.

If the Knicks wanted to rebuild, Carmelo Anthony would consider waiving his no-trade clause.
"I have the power, but still I would talk to [the front office]," Anthony said. "We would be in communication if they feel like they want to go in a different direction, they want to start rebuilding for the future. If they tell me they want to scrap this whole thing, yeah, I have to consider it." All this said, he said his family loves it in New York and his son goes to school in NYC, so he may not waive it even if the Knicks rebuild.

In comment 13334235 DanMetroMan said:

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theory the Bulls could see Wade/Melo/Butler as a trio they can try and win without having to give up anything "big" for a Carmelo Anthony (currently the Bulls pick 14th and Melo likely helps their pick fall into the late teens/20's

If im in the Knicks I'm doing this in a heartbeat. Gibson would be a perfect defensive 4 next to KP at 5. Rondo is fully guaranteed and can be waived. Mirotic- who cares. Grabbing an extra 1st rounder would be nice.

Trading Melo changes the course of the team for the future and not for the now. You can then truly run the offense around KP- especially in crunch time. You get Willy minutes while he struggles on defense because its all about developing him. And most importantly your improving your draft spot to hopefully get another young stud.

Not a huge mistake by the Knicks, but a mistake. Is Plumlee really more important?

In comment 13334676 manh george said:

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Not a huge mistake by the Knicks, but a mistake. Is Plumlee really more important?

Plumlee is not the marginal roster player, and he played very well vs. BOS. I struggle to understand why Randle getting a 2nd 10 day contract from a very bad team is evidence that guys we've wanted and had around all season are worse than him.

There is an awful lot of hand ringing over the 15th spot on the roster. History shows these debates generally were overwrought.

Chris Paul is out for 2 months. Clippers season most likely done even if they make playoffs would probably play GS or Spurs in first round
CP3 may not resign with Clips and exercise his ETO
Trade CP3 for Rose straight up
Salaries work
CP gets to play with Melo and most likely signs max with Knicks
Rose helps salvage clips season and clips under no obligation to resign him


Makes sense

In comment 13334716 Earl the goat said:

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Chris Paul is out for 2 months. Clippers season most likely done even if they make playoffs would probably play GS or Spurs in first round CP3 may not resign with Clips and exercise his ETO Trade CP3 for Rose straight up Salaries work CP gets to play with Melo and most likely signs max with Knicks Rose helps salvage clips season and clips under no obligation to resign him Makes sense

it is actually not a crazy idea and would actually be a smart move for the clippers..

they then resign blake...

there would have to be draft picks sent from the knicks

In comment 13334719 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13334716 Earl the goat said: Quote: Chris Paul is out for 2 months. Clippers season most likely done even if they make playoffs would probably play GS or Spurs in first round Wow NYGiants. It's nice to agree on something I'd send draft picks as long as it's not this years pick We desperately need to hit a HR and get a stud to play with KP in years to come CP3 Melo KP Lottery pick This would make for a formidable lineup 2018. And throw in my nan Kooz CP3 may not resign with Clips and exercise his ETO Trade CP3 for Rose straight up Salaries work CP gets to play with Melo and most likely signs max with Knicks Rose helps salvage clips season and clips under no obligation to resign him Makes sense it is actually not a crazy idea and would actually be a smart move for the clippers.. they then resign blake... there would have to be draft picks sent from the knicks

In comment 13334719 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13334716 Earl the goat said: Quote: Chris Paul is out for 2 months. Clippers season most likely done even if they make playoffs would probably play GS or Spurs in first round CP3 may not resign with Clips and exercise his ETO Trade CP3 for Rose straight up Salaries work CP gets to play with Melo and most likely signs max with Knicks Rose helps salvage clips season and clips under no obligation to resign him Makes sense it is actually not a crazy idea and would actually be a smart move for the clippers.. they then resign blake... there would have to be draft picks sent from the knicks

Are you guys seriously stating the Clippers should trade a top 10 player in the entire NBA for a not top 15 PG in the entire NBA as a real trade? I don't even know where to start, except the Clippers wouldn't do that unless KP was in the trade. Rose brings them the same exact outcome in the playoffs as fat Ray does. If they wanted to trade CP3 there would be 15 other teams with way better offers. CP3 can get the most money from the Clippers so he 98% will resign with them.

Rose for CP3 would easily be the worst trade in NBA history if it happened.

you are signing both cp3 and blake to huge max contracts and basically saying this is your team for thennext 5 years?

i am not saying the clips would do it, but you can see why they would do it, especially if knicks add in picks, the clips are baren and their future is not so bright...

also no not 15 teams would offer something better because there is no guarantee he would resign with that team..

stop with the Rose for Paul nonsense.

FFS.

he would be the player who would put you in purgatory. A 7/8 seed for the next 3-4 years.

trade injured players.

In comment 13334818 giantsfan44ab said:

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trade injured players.

you can the team receiving injured player would have to rescind physical...

If Chris Paul isn't gonna work then why downgrade him to Derrick Rose and become a borderline 8 seed instead of a 4 seed?

Detroit Pistons president-coach Stan Van Gundy denied an ESPN report that there are currently trade discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves involving point guard Reggie Jackson. In a series of texts to the Free Press, Van Gundy said the organization doesn’t “have a single thing under consideration.” ESPN.com, citing unnamed sources, is reporting a Jackson-for-Ricky Rubio multiplayer swap has been discussed.

In comment 13334735 nygiants16 said:

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you are signing both cp3 and blake to huge max contracts and basically saying this is your team for thennext 5 years? i am not saying the clips would do it, but you can see why they would do it, especially if knicks add in picks, the clips are baren and their future is not so bright... also no not 15 teams would offer something better because there is no guarantee he would resign with that team..

Ok so just to clarify- the Knicks would give middle of the road 1st round picks and Derrick Rose for a top 10 player, and the Clips couldn't find 15 deals better then that?

And the Knicks are a team CP3 would be a lock to resign with? Why would he want to stay here?


No, I can't think of literally a single reason the Clippers would do that. The Celtics would 100% offer both Nets picks for CP3. Rose is 100% valueless in any trade, especially with the Clippers. It makes zero sense for them. Less then zero. Worse then a fantasy trade.

The Celtics would give 2 potential #1 overall picks for a 32 year old PG when their PG is 27 and going to be on the MVP ballot...

he is out for 2 months and on an expiring comtract..

and you dont think he would be a lock to resign with the knicks? one of his best friends plays on the knicks...

again i said IF the clippers thought about trading him it could be an option..

It is really crazy how quickly that clippers team is going to fall and how long it will take for them to rebuild and they won nothing..

is there another superstar in the nba that somehow does not get killed for never winning anythong like cp3? people call melo a loser and should look for a team to win on...cp3 has done nothing..

the clippers are capped out even if they let 1 of cp3 or blake go and they have 0 draft picks in this upcoming draft..

In comment 13334927 giantsfan44ab said:

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The Celtics would give 2 potential #1 overall picks for a 32 year old PG when their PG is 27 and going to be on the MVP ballot...

That's fine but no one in the NBA thinks IT is a top 10 player. Everyone in the NA thinks CP3 is. Additionally, guarantee that the presence of IT will not stop the Celtics from drafting Fultz as the #1 pick.

In comment 13334949 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13334927 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: The Celtics would give 2 potential #1 overall picks for a 32 year old PG when their PG is 27 and going to be on the MVP ballot... That's fine but no one in the NBA thinks IT is a top 10 player. Everyone in the NA thinks CP3 is. Additionally, guarantee that the presence of IT will not stop the Celtics from drafting Fultz as the #1 pick.

That's fine. As well as they should. Never hurts to have young guns in the pipeline.. Is the difference between CP3 being the 10th best player and Thomas being the 20th best player worth 2 Markelle Fultz plus an additional $34M a year (difference between what Thomas is making next year and what CP3 will be making next year)?

Plus how many more years will CP3 be better than thomas? Like 2? I don't think the Celtics would trade CP3 for thomas straight up simply because of age of salary. CP3 was never good enough to win more than one playoff series in his prime. Being the team that gives CP3 his next contract will have the same issues as the team that gives Drew Brees his next contract.

for Rubio who says no?

In comment 13335005 Jon in NYC said:

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for Rubio who says no?

Knicks front office, most Knicks fans and anyone who has a clue.

In comment 13335012 Keith said:

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In comment 13335005 Jon in NYC said: Quote: for Rubio who says no? Knicks front office, most Knicks fans and anyone who has a clue.

Why? Rose is good but he's not worth twice what Rubio making + Shabazz