NFT: Knicks Chat: KOQ/Spurs fit?

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with 2 more years?

In comment 13335015 Keith said:

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with 2 more years?

To tank? To have a player who will involve the younger guys? To not invest $150M on a PG that will have us picking in the 10-15 range instead of the top7-8?

The Knicks don't have to give rose 150M. So you are suggesting that Jackson should trade for a spar player with a worse contract to protect himself from signing rose?

Now if Minny was to include an asset that useful to the Knicks, it might make sense(assuming the main goal of trading melo is accomplished).

Lesser.

pretty much. Rubio has 2 years left. Jennings won't command that much but will probably be looking for a 4 year deal. Holiday and Rose making $30M a year is a situation I don't want to be a part of.

getting a young asset is why I'd do it. Not even a big Muhammad fan but it would be nice to have 1 useful wing player under the age of 25.

He said Rubio for rose straight up and I don't see how that makes logical sense.

In comment 13335024 Keith said:

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He said Rubio for rose straight up and I don't see how that makes logical sense.

Well if you look at any reported Rubio rumor they are attaching Muhammad to him because they aren't going to pay Muhammad when they're going to have 3 future max players, 2 at the wing spots.

i would do rubio and mohammed for rose..

mohammef goves you a nice bench piece...

rubio is still young and could be a stop gap for time being if knicms draft a pg

"if it was his bench, everybody would be sitting their ass down"

OG Anunoby (Indiana) out for the season - knee surgery. Projected lottery pick and a favorite of mine for the Knicks in the 10-15 range.

In comment 13335055 bceagle05 said:

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OG Anunoby (Indiana) out for the season - knee surgery. Projected lottery pick and a favorite of mine for the Knicks in the 10-15 range.

if the knicks do not make the playoffs and keep melo i want bridges, i think he is the perfect fit with melo at the 4 and kp at 5..

unless one of the top pgs drop of course

Definitely has more trade value then Derrick Rose. The only way the awol es do that is if they're really concerned with the salary dump. Even if you mistakenly think Rose is somehow a better player then Rubio(which he isn't), Rubio is an excellent defensive and passing PG on an incredibly cheap contract. Rose is a soon to be FA who thinks he's getting the max. The Knicks would easily do that deal and the Wolves wouldn't. Rose single above average NBA skill has no use on a team wth 3 high usage players who all excel at that same skill, getting to the hoop.

If so, is just like to say that Noah is Fucking USELESS!

why Kuz was sent back to the bench?

allowed to shove melo up and down the court?

.

Yeah, let's leave Booker alone behind the arc.

he still thinks Rubio is better than Rose. Just laughable at this point.

For the fuckin win!

.

.

dep would appear within two minutes.

In comment 13335146 bceagle05 said:

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dep would appear within two minutes.

good thing I wasnt responding to you fucknuts.

this balances out the win in Boston the other night.

"All I want is a top 8 pick, a top 8 pick, a top 8 pick."

The rest of the team can go take a hike.



Get draft picks and get younger. Give me a Shved-like reason to watch these games so I don't have to watch these heartbreaking games anymore.

#TryLikeHellToTradeNoah
#TradeLee
#TradeMelo
#DraftPicks
#CapSpace
#Porzingus
#Get2OnesForOQuinn

''Twas a joke, boss.

In comment 13335154 bceagle05 said:

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''Twas a joke, boss.

shit, should have called you deeznuuts then. My apologies.

In comment 13335141 dep026 said:

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he still thinks Rubio is better than Rose. Just laughable at this point.

Lets see-

Better defender: Rubio by a country mile.
Better passer: Rubio by a country mile.
Better court awareness: Rubio by a country mile.
Better rebounder: Rubio by a lot.
Better scorer: Rose by a country mile.


Stats Rubio/Rose.

Orating: 114/105
Drating:110/114
PER: 14.6/16.6
WS: 2.7/1.5
WS/48: .110/.056
BPM: .5/-2.1
VORP: .8/0
RPM: 1.58(12th in PG)/-2.61(60th in PG)
Projected year end WARP: 6.7/-1.2

Yes, totally laughable, besides the fact that literally every single metric besides PER, which doesnt take defense into account thinks Rubio is a FAR better player, and Rose has literally one above average NBA skill.

It's 100% plausible you cant build a winning team with Rubios flaws, which I wouldn't even argue. However, its 100% likely you cant build a winning team with Rose's, so either way Rubio is a far better player.

Go ahead though, tell me more about calculators and mathizhard but your eyes are so much better, yet you cant give me any actual eye reasons why Rose is worse.

last sentence should read why Rose is better.

Interesting that rose is averaging more rebounds per game this year. Hmmm, those damn stats.

Rubio passes and defends better (even though his defense has been average at best this year.) Rose shoots and demands a helluva lot more attention than Rubio on offense. Rose's offense is so much better than anything Rubio does better its not even funny.

Who's PER is better this year? Here's a hint Rubio is 30th ranked PG. Which is bottom of the barrel of point guards in the league.

the TWolves have far more talent surrounding Rubio than the Knicks do and they still completey suck ass. Probably because their PG is one of the worst in the league.

Why does Baker need to play the entire 4th quarter? He was minus 7.

Lee doesn't need to play 35+ minutes. Holiday and Hernangomez need consistent minutes.

In comment 13335160 dep026 said:

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Interesting that rose is averaging more rebounds per game this year. Hmmm, those damn stats. Rubio passes and defends better (even though his defense has been average at best this year.) Rose shoots and demands a helluva lot more attention than Rubio on offense. Rose's offense is so much better than anything Rubio does better its not even funny. Who's PER is better this year? Here's a hint Rubio is 30th ranked PG. Which is bottom of the barrel of point guards in the league.

Rubio is a better rebounder by rebound %.

And yes Rubios PER is worse- which I pointed out, but PER doesnt take defense into account really. And way to point out ONE stat, which I included out of 9, all of which Rubio demolishes Rose in.

In comment 13335161 dep026 said:

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the TWolves have far more talent surrounding Rubio than the Knicks do and they still completey suck ass. Probably because their PG is one of the worst in the league.

Yea, not because they are the youngest team in the league or anything basically.

31.9 minutes and averages 4 rebounds. The other plays 31.6 minutes and averages 3.9. We all know I cant work calculators, but to me that doesnt seem like Rubio is a better rebounder by "a lot". To me, it seems like they are about equal.

And the majority of your stats you "showed" are team related stats that include O/D rating, which is based on team success and your teammates play. Are you going to argue that Rubio plays with LESS talent than Rose?

Rubio plays with two very good wing post defenders and two uber-athletic wings, and his rating is still terrible. Also, when we are discussing PLAYER evaluation, its usually good to use Player efficieny rating, which Rubio is awfl.

Some other advanced stats where rose is superior?

EWA
VA
USG (where Rubio I believe is the worst PG in the NBA)
TO% (where Rose is one of the best in the league)

In comment 13335166 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13335161 dep026 said: Quote: the TWolves have far more talent surrounding Rubio than the Knicks do and they still completey suck ass. Probably because their PG is one of the worst in the league. Yea, not because they are the youngest team in the league or anything basically.

Lavine, Towns, and Wiggins are all playing extremely well. I dont see where Age is an issue. I do see where the PG is a problem though.

I said nothing about any Rubio/Rose trade or evaulation before sgcrts brought up his love for Rubio. ;)

In comment 13335168 dep026 said:

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31.9 minutes and averages 4 rebounds. The other plays 31.6 minutes and averages 3.9. We all know I cant work calculators, but to me that doesnt seem like Rubio is a better rebounder by "a lot". To me, it seems like they are about equal. And the majority of your stats you "showed" are team related stats that include O/D rating, which is based on team success and your teammates play. Are you going to argue that Rubio plays with LESS talent than Rose? Rubio plays with two very good wing post defenders and two uber-athletic wings, and his rating is still terrible. Also, when we are discussing PLAYER evaluation, its usually good to use Player efficieny rating, which Rubio is awfl. Some other advanced stats where rose is superior? EWA VA USG (where Rubio I believe is the worst PG in the NBA) TO% (where Rose is one of the best in the league)

No, RPM is NOT AT ALL a team related stat. Neither is WS, BPM, or really any of them. Not at all.

VA and EWA are basically the same stat. Usage is not something that helps your case at all, since Rose is a high usage player and not an efficient one. Rose does have one of the best TO% in the league, but thats a lot easier when you rarely pass. His assist % is 69th in the league, whereas Rubio's is 19th.

So basically your case by statistics is non existent, so whats your case by the eye test?

PER is STRICTLY a box score stat, so it doesnt penalize bad defenders or help good defenders that much. That is a factual statement that is unarguable.

I've already stated that its entirely possible neither are winning players, and if you think Rubio is a trash player, yet there is much evidence he is a better player then Rose, what does that make Rose as a player? Even if you think Rose is better, its literally impossible to make an argument he is on some other level of player then Rubio. So by default, that makes Rose a trash player. I'm entirely uninvested in Rubio as a player, so calling him trash is fine with me as long as it comes with the agreement that Rose is also a trash player.

He played AWESOME at the end of that game though!

Harden, Westbrook, Cousins, Embiid, Derozen, Thomas, Wall, Davis, James, Lillard. Seems like the best players raise to the top when they are used/needed more.

So what do we have with Rubio again? A well below average offense player (as by PER) and an average defensive player (as by his defensive ranking). All in all, one of the worst starting PGs in the league.

about either player, but its clear as day that Rose is a better player, and its not particularly close either.

who is an amazing passer and such a glorious defender, with a very nice contract..... wouldnt you think the TWolves would want to keep him with all the talent they have rather than getting rid of him?

If they are looking to get rid of him, its because of 1 reason and 1 reason he only. He isnt good.

In comment 13335184 dep026 said:

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who is an amazing passer and such a glorious defender, with a very nice contract..... wouldnt you think the TWolves would want to keep him with all the talent they have rather than getting rid of him? If they are looking to get rid of him, its because of 1 reason and 1 reason he only. He isnt good.

Thats your defense when the guy you are defending was literally just traded for what YOU call a bunch of garbage, and both his new team and the fans of his new team are dying for him to be traded or just off the team in general?

In comment 13335179 dep026 said:

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Harden, Westbrook, Cousins, Embiid, Derozen, Thomas, Wall, Davis, James, Lillard. Seems like the best players raise to the top when they are used/needed more. So what do we have with Rubio again? A well below average offense player (as by PER) and an average defensive player (as by his defensive ranking). All in all, one of the worst starting PGs in the league.

Again, I don't think you understand what usage means. It is not a stat that has any reflection on how you are playing by itself.

Also, Rubio is not "well below average" by PER, since 13-15 is considered the PER of a rotation player.

And what do we have with Rose again? An average at best scorer with no other NBA skills and ATROCIOUS defense, literally one of the worst defenders at his position in the league.

Its truly unreal your deep man love for Derrick Rose.

In comment 13335191 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13335184 dep026 said: Quote: who is an amazing passer and such a glorious defender, with a very nice contract..... wouldnt you think the TWolves would want to keep him with all the talent they have rather than getting rid of him? If they are looking to get rid of him, its because of 1 reason and 1 reason he only. He isnt good. Thats your defense when the guy you are defending was literally just traded for what YOU call a bunch of garbage, and both his new team and the fans of his new team are dying for him to be traded or just off the team in general?

Difference is the Bulls were going nowhere fast and the Wolves are loaded with young and upcoming talent. You and I both agree Rose's contract gives him no trade valllue. Rubio has a cheap contract - and yet they still want to get rid of him.

And yes... Grant and Lopez are garbage. If Rubio's strengths are as great as they say they are (his defense isnt) then Minny would have no reason to trade him since what they need is defense and a passer.

Dude, Rubio sucks and has for years. Rose has at least shown all-star type play for at times this year. Rubio has never showed it.