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NFT: Knicks Chat: KOQ/Spurs fit?

DanMetroMan : 1/20/2017 9:15 am
Gasol is going to miss significant time with a bone break so the Spurs reportedly are looking for a big via trade. I'm not sure KOQ for what is currently the 29th pick in the draft is even a deal I would make.

-Booker 21, 8 and 7 last night

-Jokic 35, 12 and 4 with 2 blocks... beast

-Old friend David Lee 10 and 16

-Towns 37 12 and 5

-DeAndre Jordan 29 and 16 (averaging 18 and 18 over his last 5 games)

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If Rose drating of 114  
dep026 : 1/21/2017 11:12 pm : link
is "ATROCIOUS"

How would you cal Rubios at 110? Awful? Terrible? Disgraceful? You cant call it one of the best in the league (which you have done before). You cant call it good. you cant even call it average.

So Rubio cant shoot, defend, or be used in crunchtime. He can pass, that we ca nagree with.

Rose shoots  
dep026 : 1/21/2017 11:14 pm : link
nearly 9% better from the floor Than rubio and is shooting 85% from the line. A lot of guards would kill to shoot 46% from the floor.
And one thing about rubios and roses  
dep026 : 1/21/2017 11:20 pm : link
defensive ratings..... Rubio plays for a MUCH better defensive (albeit awful Head coach) and much better defending teammates.
Anyway I am out....  
dep026 : 1/21/2017 11:32 pm : link
Learned a lot tonight.
You are literally  
Sgrcts : 1/21/2017 11:55 pm : link
cherry picking a bunch of info for things that you think benefit your argument, even when they don't.

Just out of curiosity- are your Rose underoos Knicks blue and orange or Bulls Red and black?
RE: And one thing about rubios and roses  
Sgrcts : 1/21/2017 11:57 pm : link
In comment 13335200 dep026 said:
Quote:
defensive ratings..... Rubio plays for a MUCH better defensive (albeit awful Head coach) and much better defending teammates.


Rubio has a positive 4 net rating, Rose has a negative 9.
RE: College bball/tank alert:  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 2:18 am : link
In comment 13335055 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
OG Anunoby (Indiana) out for the season - knee surgery. Projected lottery pick and a favorite of mine for the Knicks in the 10-15 range.


I really think he needs to stay in school. It was crazy watching him his freshman year-he didn't play much but he would do crazy things that would make you fawn over him.

Year 2 he's taken a bigger role but I honestly still have no idea what he is as a player. He has some of the craziest dunks I've seen, but he also has head scratching plays. Is he a small ball 4? He certainly can defend 3, maybe 4 positions. But he isn't a notable rebounder. He has shown range but he's far from a reliable shooter at all. He's really strong, but when he posts up he's mechanical and attacks the rim with blinders on which leads to turnovers.

I've watched almost every single game he's played and I still don't know what to come up with. Sometimes I think he's going to be Kawhi. Other times I think he's going to be Stanley Johnson. The ceiling is high but the floor can be low if he enters the league when he's not polished like Noah Vonleh. For his sake, I hope he stays for at least another year.
Dep crapped on rose  
hitdog42 : 1/22/2017 7:22 am : link
On the bulls the last several years.
So this desire to defend him now is odd.
RE: Dep crapped on rose  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 8:01 am : link
In comment 13335252 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
On the bulls the last several years.
So this desire to defend him now is odd.


Because he played poorly. He shot a ton of 3s and never looke for his pull up jumper. He was shooting 4-5 threes a game and shooting them poorly. This year he is attacking and doing much better.
i think i want rose traded  
nygiants16 : 1/22/2017 8:30 am : link
juat so i dont have to read these threads anymore..
16  
Carl in CT : 1/22/2017 8:33 am : link
I agree. They turn into some nerd wannabe whose never played the game but can read spreadsheets. It's ridiculous.
I love  
Jon in NYC : 1/22/2017 8:43 am : link
that my Rose for Rubio proposal inspired a total Dep + Kmed meltdown.
RE: i think i want rose traded  
BigBlueShock : 1/22/2017 8:48 am : link
In comment 13335264 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
juat so i dont have to read these threads anymore..

These Knicks threads are like something out of Groundhog Day. Every day I click on them and every day it's the same exact arguments going down. Nobody is ever going to change anyone else's mind so I'm not sure what repeating the same nonsense over and over and over again has accomplished.

Oh well, sorry to interrupt. Now back to your regularly scheduled Rose debates...
At what point will we start looking to move guys?  
Keith : 1/22/2017 9:05 am : link
Knicks currently sit with the 11th worst record. I guess it has to start with the melo trade. Is Phil just letting the frustration rise to put more pressure on melo?

You'd rather teams call us with interest(I think we have some guys teams would want), just announce that everyone is available and let teams call us.
Sorry boys....  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 9:06 am : link
I am trying to rectify the situation. I asked Eric to add a calculator function to BBI so when the game is going on, we can calculate how one is playing.
Rose's defense on the  
Enzo : 1/22/2017 9:09 am : link
on the game winning 3 was....something. Such a dumb player.
RE: At what point will we start looking to move guys?  
nygiants16 : 1/22/2017 9:10 am : link
In comment 13335281 Keith said:
Quote:
Knicks currently sit with the 11th worst record. I guess it has to start with the melo trade. Is Phil just letting the frustration rise to put more pressure on melo?

You'd rather teams call us with interest(I think we have some guys teams would want), just announce that everyone is available and let teams call us.


thevsad part is the 8th place team only has 21 wins..

the bucks have lost 4 in a row..

knicks win 2 and they are tge 8th seed, its crazy
RE: Sorry boys....  
Sgrcts : 1/22/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13335283 dep026 said:
Quote:
I am trying to rectify the situation. I asked Eric to add a calculator function to BBI so when the game is going on, we can calculate how one is playing.



Yet I literally asked you by the eye test what specifically makes Rose a vastly superior player to the garbage Rubio and you just replied with more stats.

And Carl, I can assure you my physical conditioning would disgrace yours. Some of us can not be afraid of math and at the same time, be real live physical humans who play sports and stay active.
lol  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 9:13 am : link
its like people dont understand what helpside defense is. Please inform me who is responsible for the roll guy on the high screen?
30 combined shots  
Enzo : 1/22/2017 9:15 am : link
for KP and Melo. 26 shots for Rose. Selfish....
RE: RE: Sorry boys....  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13335297 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13335283 dep026 said:


Quote:


I am trying to rectify the situation. I asked Eric to add a calculator function to BBI so when the game is going on, we can calculate how one is playing.




Yet I literally asked you by the eye test what specifically makes Rose a vastly superior player to the garbage Rubio and you just replied with more stats.

And Carl, I can assure you my physical conditioning would disgrace yours. Some of us can not be afraid of math and at the same time, be real live physical humans who play sports and stay active.


Ive answered it many times already. You see what you want to see. And it usually involved formuals. Rose is asked to carry a much bigger load and is better at it. Rubio on an all-star team can be functionable (odd that he sucks with a team full of talent though.)
RE: RE: At what point will we start looking to move guys?  
Keith : 1/22/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13335291 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13335281 Keith said:


Quote:


Knicks currently sit with the 11th worst record. I guess it has to start with the melo trade. Is Phil just letting the frustration rise to put more pressure on melo?

You'd rather teams call us with interest(I think we have some guys teams would want), just announce that everyone is available and let teams call us.



thevsad part is the 8th place team only has 21 wins..

the bucks have lost 4 in a row..

knicks win 2 and they are tge 8th seed, its crazy


We can't be delusional enough to not see the opportunity here, right? We took a shot, this team won't work. The talent is there, but it's clear the problem goes deeper. At this point, we are closer to the bottom, so flip the script and embrace that. We've done it before.
Melo 4-18  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 9:19 am : link
in the last two games in the 2nd half.

Oofa....
28 steals for Rose  
Enzo : 1/22/2017 9:20 am : link
on the season. He's played more mins than every other guard on the team, yet 3 other guards have managed more steals. Is he even trying out there on defense? Lazy...
Melo has 18 blocks on the year  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 9:25 am : link
when will he ever contest a shot? We know it wont be with the game on the line against a 6'0 guard.
The Knicks are just lost on defense.  
Keith : 1/22/2017 9:30 am : link
Guys have no idea who to pick up. Too often we have 2 players covering the same guy and leaving someone open. Too often when we get picked, the other guy doesn't close off the drive. Too often we sag off good shooters to clog the lane and it leaves the 3 wide open. The problem is coaching too.

I know there are certain posters who want to be right so bad so they look to point at rose, who isn't a very smart defender, but he gives effort. I'll take that any day over melo who is the one constant on 10 years of bad defenses. You cannot win with melo as a key player, especially not now where he's lost so much offensively.
RE: i think i want rose traded  
bceagle05 : 1/22/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13335264 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
juat so i dont have to read these threads anymore..


Amen, brother.
RE: RE: At what point will we start looking to move guys?  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13335291 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13335281 Keith said:


Quote:


Knicks currently sit with the 11th worst record. I guess it has to start with the melo trade. Is Phil just letting the frustration rise to put more pressure on melo?

You'd rather teams call us with interest(I think we have some guys teams would want), just announce that everyone is available and let teams call us.



thevsad part is the 8th place team only has 21 wins..

the bucks have lost 4 in a row..

knicks win 2 and they are tge 8th seed, its crazy


Doesn't help that they blew all the easy games on the schedule. These next 5 games are rough with 4 on the road and the one home game being against Charlotte. Before the tread deadline next month they play the Cavs, Thunder and Spurs with the Lakers, clips and nets mixed in.

I'm not sure how bad things have to get before Phil is forced to make changes.
All aboard! #KnicksTank  
Giantology : 1/22/2017 10:43 am : link

RE: Melo has 18 blocks on the year  
Deej : 1/22/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13335307 dep026 said:
Quote:
when will he ever contest a shot? We know it wont be with the game on the line against a 6'0 guard.


Man, your need to bash Melo whenever a bad word is said about Rose is neurotic.
RE: RE: Melo has 18 blocks on the year  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13335374 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13335307 dep026 said:


Quote:


when will he ever contest a shot? We know it wont be with the game on the line against a 6'0 guard.



Man, your need to bash Melo whenever a bad word is said about Rose is neurotic.


Its odd that you havent picked up what I am doing.
Not to get involved in this petty back and forth,  
Keith : 1/22/2017 11:15 am : link
but to be fair to dep...the same people that constantly bash Rose(whether its warranted or not) are the same ones that constantly defend melo. IMO, Melo is the biggest problem on this team so I think it's fair for people who defend Rose to then say that. Rose has his problems, but he's been a key player on a lot of good defenses. Melo has never been that guy. So when the defense looks like it does, why does Melo get a pass? He is a major problem on this defense and "hiding" him at the 4 is going to make it worse.
by the way  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:16 am : link
Melo, right now, may be the most overrated player in sports - just not in the NBA today. It will be an absolute crime if he makes the AS team.
RE: Not to get involved in this petty back and forth,  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13335381 Keith said:
Quote:
but to be fair to dep...the same people that constantly bash Rose(whether its warranted or not) are the same ones that constantly defend melo. IMO, Melo is the biggest problem on this team so I think it's fair for people who defend Rose to then say that. Rose has his problems, but he's been a key player on a lot of good defenses. Melo has never been that guy. So when the defense looks like it does, why does Melo get a pass? He is a major problem on this defense and "hiding" him at the 4 is going to make it worse.


Didn't the 2013 Knicks have a top 3 defense?

Anyways I don't want to get involved in this endless debate. I think I'm an anamoly from the group you're calling out. Fuck Melo AND fuck Rose. Now both can go kindly fuck off on to other teams.
You guys are going to be highly  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:23 am : link
disappointed when Rose signs a 4 year deal with you guys in the offseason. He wont get the max. But he will get close to it.
RE: You guys are going to be highly  
Jon in NYC : 1/22/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13335394 dep026 said:
Quote:
disappointed when Rose signs a 4 year deal with you guys in the offseason. He wont get the max. But he will get close to it.


0 chance that happens. He may be 3 years to line up with Noah and Lee. But they wont max him at 4.
Anyone catch the Spurs game  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 11:25 am : link
yesterday? The MVP is a stats driven award and although Harden has been unreal this season Id be hard pressed to think why Kawhi doesn't deserve the award. He won't rack up 50 point games or triple doubles but night in, night out he knocks down shots with efficiency and maintains being the best defensive player in the league.

On a side note, did the Spurs really find their future starting PG with another late 1st rounder? Murray has been legit in the 2 games he's started. He's extremely quick and slippery, an absolute killer in transition.
RE: RE: You guys are going to be highly  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13335396 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13335394 dep026 said:


Quote:


disappointed when Rose signs a 4 year deal with you guys in the offseason. He wont get the max. But he will get close to it.



0 chance that happens. He may be 3 years to line up with Noah and Lee. But they wont max him at 4.


Ok, I can buy that. But he is either going to be a Knick or Bull, and I dont see the Bulls happening.
RE: RE: RE: You guys are going to be highly  
Jon in NYC : 1/22/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13335399 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13335396 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13335394 dep026 said:


Quote:


disappointed when Rose signs a 4 year deal with you guys in the offseason. He wont get the max. But he will get close to it.



0 chance that happens. He may be 3 years to line up with Noah and Lee. But they wont max him at 4.



Ok, I can buy that. But he is either going to be a Knick or Bull, and I dont see the Bulls happening.


Why? There are plenty of teams that would sign him. It just depends on what he wants and if he realizes that he isnt getting MVP money.
Oh I think he will have a lot of suitors  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:35 am : link
I just see him only go to those 2 places.
RE: Oh I think he will have a lot of suitors  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13335405 dep026 said:
Quote:
I just see him only go to those 2 places.


More I look at teams the more I can see Rose getting the max.

Sacramento: Total Kings move. Gay is leaving and they have max money to throw around and then some. He'd certainly cause hype there and he's actually levels better than anything the Kings had at PG since like Tyreke Evans.

Dallas: they are only at $60M in cap space and will be looking to move on from Williams (at least as a starter)

Orlando: looking for a PG, have max money.

Miami: if they move Dragic they will have like $70M in cap space and would need a PG. Think he'd be a good fit next to Whiteside too. When he drives in and takes two defenders he has the best cleanup Big to put away anytime he misses.

Denver: not likely but they could move a player to clear space. Mudiay sucks but their team is good. Plus, rose could be really good off the ball with Jokic feeding him back cuts.
RE: RE: Oh I think he will have a lot of suitors  
dep026 : 1/22/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13335414 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13335405 dep026 said:


Quote:


I just see him only go to those 2 places.



More I look at teams the more I can see Rose getting the max.

Sacramento: Total Kings move. Gay is leaving and they have max money to throw around and then some. He'd certainly cause hype there and he's actually levels better than anything the Kings had at PG since like Tyreke Evans.

Dallas: they are only at $60M in cap space and will be looking to move on from Williams (at least as a starter)

Orlando: looking for a PG, have max money.

Miami: if they move Dragic they will have like $70M in cap space and would need a PG. Think he'd be a good fit next to Whiteside too. When he drives in and takes two defenders he has the best cleanup Big to put away anytime he misses.

Denver: not likely but they could move a player to clear space. Mudiay sucks but their team is good. Plus, rose could be really good off the ball with Jokic feeding him back cuts.


The slight problem is these teams will draft PGs if they are available, thus making Rose or any other PG not worth the money. The Kings are interesting since they may lose their pick.
FOrgot the most obvious of them all  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 11:46 am : link
The Nets.
I think resigning here is most likely  
Deej : 1/22/2017 11:47 am : link
because he's here and we're dumb money. But a team like Sacramento could easily save our asses on this.
RE: Anyone catch the Spurs game  
Sgrcts : 1/22/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13335398 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
yesterday? The MVP is a stats driven award and although Harden has been unreal this season Id be hard pressed to think why Kawhi doesn't deserve the award. He won't rack up 50 point games or triple doubles but night in, night out he knocks down shots with efficiency and maintains being the best defensive player in the league.

On a side note, did the Spurs really find their future starting PG with another late 1st rounder? Murray has been legit in the 2 games he's started. He's extremely quick and slippery, an absolute killer in transition.


I'm pretty much the biggest Kawhi fan around but he's not the best defensive player in the league. That goes to Rudy Gobert.
Dep  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 12:03 pm : link
yeah I was thinking that. Dallas may be just good enough to not land one of the premier PGs.

Nets don't have their pick, if the kings get high enough of a pick to get a PG that means the sixers would just swap with them.

The magic won't even be in the top 10. Nuggets will make the playoffs. Rose would be fun to watch in Denver too. From a fan perspective that's where I'd want him to go. Mudiay is just a shitty rose in like every respect so getting Rose would be a clear upgrade to their team.

NO would be an interesting destination if they don't keep Holiday.

The Lakers if they lose their pick?

There will be like 5-6 teams I think that would be in the market for a PG even after you account for the 5 PGs in the draft that would deter teams from splurging on one.
RE: RE: Anyone catch the Spurs game  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13335426 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13335398 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


yesterday? The MVP is a stats driven award and although Harden has been unreal this season Id be hard pressed to think why Kawhi doesn't deserve the award. He won't rack up 50 point games or triple doubles but night in, night out he knocks down shots with efficiency and maintains being the best defensive player in the league.

On a side note, did the Spurs really find their future starting PG with another late 1st rounder? Murray has been legit in the 2 games he's started. He's extremely quick and slippery, an absolute killer in transition.



I'm pretty much the biggest Kawhi fan around but he's not the best defensive player in the league. That goes to Rudy Gobert.


How's best perimeter defender?
Rose is getting  
Sgrcts : 1/22/2017 12:18 pm : link
A Rondo type deal- 2 years maybe with an option at 10-12 million.
RE: Rose is getting  
Jon in NYC : 1/22/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13335431 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
A Rondo type deal- 2 years maybe with an option at 10-12 million.


I think that's a pipe dream too. I say 3-60.
RE: RE: Rose is getting  
giantsfan44ab : 1/22/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13335432 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13335431 Sgrcts said:


Quote:


A Rondo type deal- 2 years maybe with an option at 10-12 million.



I think that's a pipe dream too. I say 3-60.


And I'll say 3-75 or 4-100
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