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Hall, Sensabaugh, Wade are all FAs/CB Targets

adamg : 1/22/2017 6:45 am
Just looking at the FAs of 2017...

Besides Zak DeOssie needing a new contract and the obvious need of a cover LBer, the thing that stuck out to me was that beyond Apple, Jenkins, and DRC, we don't have any CBs on the roster (unless you count Donte Deayon and Michael Hunter from the PS).

Are there any draft picks or FAs you guys think we may, should, or could target?
And yet ...  
FStubbs : 1/22/2017 6:55 am : link
... people want us to cut DRC.
I think there are some good late round CBs in this draft that  
No Where Man : 1/22/2017 7:00 am : link
could fill back-up roles.
RE: And yet ...  
Tuckrule : 1/22/2017 7:04 am : link
In comment 13335246 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... people want us to cut DRC.


That isn't the case. When drc signed cap experts looked at his contract and figured he would be cut going into 2017 especially after the drafting of Apple. Now, that seemed to change based on drcs play. I highly doubt he'll be cut to save money. He's worth the extra money spent
A team shouldn't rely on this approach  
robbieballs2003 : 1/22/2017 7:06 am : link
But I feel we can bring in some latter round picks and/or undrafted guys that can give us the production. Wade is very limited and it showed against GB. Sensabaugh was solid for us but nothing great. Hall really didn't provide anything for us at corner but was solid as a safety. These are all fringe players and nothing to get caught up in. However, we do need to find some younger, more athletic players back there. I did like Hall's leadership though.
RE: RE: And yet ...  
robbieballs2003 : 1/22/2017 7:08 am : link
In comment 13335248 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In comment 13335246 FStubbs said:


Quote:


... people want us to cut DRC.



That isn't the case. When drc signed cap experts looked at his contract and figured he would be cut going into 2017 especially after the drafting of Apple. Now, that seemed to change based on drcs play. I highly doubt he'll be cut to save money. He's worth the extra money spent


His play was never in doubt. He has been a stud since the day he arrived here. There was speculation about him not playing through some injuries.
RE: A team shouldn't rely on this approach  
adamg : 1/22/2017 7:18 am : link
In comment 13335249 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But I feel we can bring in some latter round picks and/or undrafted guys that can give us the production. Wade is very limited and it showed against GB. Sensabaugh was solid for us but nothing great. Hall really didn't provide anything for us at corner but was solid as a safety. These are all fringe players and nothing to get caught up in. However, we do need to find some younger, more athletic players back there. I did like Hall's leadership though.


I agree completely. Wade and Sensabaugh are both close to 30 already too (I was surprised by that; I thought Sensabaugh was younger than that, but he turns 29 in November; Wade turns 28 in August). And I don't think Hall showed enough to warrant a second shot.

I think it makes sense to go younger in FA, UDFA, and late round picks for depth. Thankfully, we have the best CB trio in the division by far (maybe the whole NFC).

I don't know names of guys who might be good targets though.
....  
Toth029 : 1/22/2017 7:35 am : link
I disagree about Hall. I think he should be used mostly in the exotic dime packages and as a safety otherwise. He made big plays this season despite being inactive a bit because of reasons we haven't heard from.

I hope they do move on from Wade. Enough already. He did make a few plays but he made more bad ones and is constantly beaten in coverage.

They may have DRC, Apple and Jenkins, but they need a true slot guy.
RE: ....  
adamg : 1/22/2017 7:45 am : link
In comment 13335253 Toth029 said:
Quote:
I disagree about Hall. I think he should be used mostly in the exotic dime packages and as a safety otherwise. He made big plays this season despite being inactive a bit because of reasons we haven't heard from.

I hope they do move on from Wade. Enough already. He did make a few plays but he made more bad ones and is constantly beaten in coverage.

They may have DRC, Apple and Jenkins, but they need a true slot guy.


What you said about Wade could be said about Hall. Hall missed 4 weeks because they gave up on him in the slot and decided to put him at FS. He was serviceable there, but he's toasted. I'd look elsewhere.

DRC plays the slot now. They need any CB bodies. Jenkins and DRC both went out and showed how good depth would be a huge value. These guys who are FAs struggled as a whole.
RE: I think there are some good late round CBs in this draft that  
Beer Man : 1/22/2017 8:02 am : link
In comment 13335247 No Where Man said:
Quote:
could fill back-up roles.
According to the talking heads, CB is one of the deep positions in this draft. Agree with you that there could be some great value at CB well into the draft
If we have room,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/22/2017 8:25 am : link
I'd certainly would bring back Sensabaugh and Hall..Wade? He was better than in 2015, but how much and what do the Giants feel about him moving forward?
Giants need to move on from Wade  
Jimmy Googs : 1/22/2017 8:28 am : link
he is way too easily beaten.

Sensabaugh make the cut though, barely...
We need  
Doomster : 1/22/2017 8:29 am : link
another corner/slot corner because of DRC....not because of his playing ability, but because if he has to leave the game, for whatever reason, that is the area they will attack, as Rodger's did....

We also need a free safety.....there is no guarantee that Darian can stay on the field.....there better be a better backup plan in place than Adams, who was just a body out there.....Berhe and the other Thompson, are not the answer....You replace Hall if someone beats him out for the position(backup).....

RE: RE: ....  
Toth029 : 1/22/2017 8:50 am : link
In comment 13335254 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13335253 Toth029 said:


Quote:


I disagree about Hall. I think he should be used mostly in the exotic dime packages and as a safety otherwise. He made big plays this season despite being inactive a bit because of reasons we haven't heard from.

I hope they do move on from Wade. Enough already. He did make a few plays but he made more bad ones and is constantly beaten in coverage.

They may have DRC, Apple and Jenkins, but they need a true slot guy.



What you said about Wade could be said about Hall. Hall missed 4 weeks because they gave up on him in the slot and decided to put him at FS. He was serviceable there, but he's toasted. I'd look elsewhere.

DRC plays the slot now. They need any CB bodies. Jenkins and DRC both went out and showed how good depth would be a huge value. These guys who are FAs struggled as a whole.

The only bad play I recall Hall did in the 2nd half when he was playing FS was the angle on the TD pass to Brown that he got just barely over Jenkins. It could've been an easy pick.

But his negatives were nowhere even close to Wade's.
I wouldn't mind if all 3 returned  
RetroJint : 1/22/2017 9:21 am : link
Wade finished on a decidedly sour note so it's almost a universal judgment that he should go. However, remember that many of those college corners available in later rounds this spring will never last in the NFL as long as Wade has. He's proven durable. He contributes on specials. As a rule , you want to turn over your depth with younger players while sprinkling in a Hall or two for seasoning .

When I look back on '16, none of these guys disturbed me. They all contributed toward wins . Wade made a big special teams miscue in the loss to the Redskins. However, that loss was basically entirely on Eli. Wade was also awful against the Vikings but he had plenty of company in that game.
Retro  
robbieballs2003 : 1/22/2017 9:42 am : link
Wade has made some plays when called upon but to play the style of defense we want he is a poor fit and I hope we move on. He cannot matchup in man to man in the slot. Therefore, Spags has to change the whole defense around to hide him making the overall defense not play up to their potential. Yes, Spags mixes up his coverages very well between man and zone but being able to matchup opens up the whole playbook. Imo, Spags never really matched up his DBs with receivers. He used to keep them on one side of the field. This year was different. He had a player in Jenkins who was able to do that. That also allowed Apple more time on the field because he didn't have to worry about Apple going against the opponents top WR. DRC provided so much flexibility in this secondary.

I like Wade as a player. He has a ton of heart. With that said, it is just a bad fit for us right now. We need to improve on the athletic ability. Playing man coverage is very easy mentally as opposed to knowing zones and route concepts. So, it should be easier to find a player with some skill than can provide us more skill at the position.
Let me clarify this  
robbieballs2003 : 1/22/2017 9:44 am : link
When I say he never really matched up his secondary I mean in the past. This year he absolutely did. When he had Webster and Madison they stayed on their respective sides.
3 guys who are JAGs but could make contributions  
Ivan15 : 1/22/2017 9:50 am : link
Hall seemed okay as backup safety but shaky at CB. Doesn't make mistakes. Hard to evaluate his contribution as a vet. Reached his expiration date. May be okay for one more year.

Sensabaugh may have a good skill set but appeared slow to react. Is the allure here that he got a hefty contract from another team? Played better late in the year. Was he slow to learn assignments? Probably okay to sign for one or two year contract at fair price but look for a replacement quickly.

Wade was shaky and inconsistent. Did he mprove a lot in second year with team? If not, move on.
RE: I wouldn't mind if all 3 returned  
crick n NC : 1/22/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13335306 RetroJint said:
Quote:
Wade made a big special teams miscue in the loss to the Redskins. However, that loss was basically entirely on Eli.


To say one player cost a team the game seems short sighted, weren't you a coach?
Another thing I will say about Wade  
robbieballs2003 : 1/22/2017 9:56 am : link
I think he'd be a great fit for Carolina's D. Aggressive tackler, tough kid.
Wade needs to go  
Jay on the Island : 1/22/2017 10:39 am : link
Sensabaugh should be re-signed to a 1 year deal for the veteran minimum. I would like to see Hall brought back for one year to provide depth at safety. Let both players compete for a roster spot in camp along with a draft pick at CB.
RE: And yet ...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/22/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13335246 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... people want us to cut DRC.


I don't think they want him cut so much as they believe he might be cut.

Imo DRC really took ownership of the slot role, and at this point I think the Giants will keep him in that role.

As others have said, what they need is depth beyond the big 3. Perhaps a vet. Drafting another CB somewhere in the range of round 3 to 5 wouldn't surprise me either.
RE: And yet ...  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/22/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13335246 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... people want us to cut DRC.


Nobody wanted to cut him. Speculation about him as a cap hit due to his age, him always being banged, and cap hit up made that a topic. Sadly even w limited snaps he got dinged in he most important game of the year. For all the questions about Apple if the Giants don't pick him that D wouldn't have. Deb nearly as good. DRC isnt going anywhere this year.
cna we get McBride back  
spike : 1/22/2017 11:44 am : link
to replace Wade?
I wouldn't mind if all of them left.  
yatqb : 1/22/2017 1:22 pm : link
Not hating on them, just feeling that the replacements for them are available both in the draft and even in late FA signings (just like we got Hall and Sensabaugh, the latter in season).

As much as we need help on O, I could see us drafting a CB as early as the 2nd round as a way to acquire DRC's eventual replacement.
I'm sure we'll draft a CB at some point  
The_Boss : 1/22/2017 1:37 pm : link
I just hope it's not until the 3rd round at earliest. Yes I'm aware it all depends on where/how they have prospects graded, but I just believe with 3 good starting caliber cb's already on the roster, a top pick cb would be a poor use of resources, especially considering our lack of talent along the OL, at TE, at WR, at RB, and at LB.
RE: cna we get McBride back  
Jimmy Googs : 1/22/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13335413 spike said:
Quote:
to replace Wade?


Same kind of dog, just with different fleas...
RE: RE: RE: ....  
adamg : 1/22/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13335277 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 13335254 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13335253 Toth029 said:


Quote:


I disagree about Hall. I think he should be used mostly in the exotic dime packages and as a safety otherwise. He made big plays this season despite being inactive a bit because of reasons we haven't heard from.

I hope they do move on from Wade. Enough already. He did make a few plays but he made more bad ones and is constantly beaten in coverage.

They may have DRC, Apple and Jenkins, but they need a true slot guy.



What you said about Wade could be said about Hall. Hall missed 4 weeks because they gave up on him in the slot and decided to put him at FS. He was serviceable there, but he's toasted. I'd look elsewhere.

DRC plays the slot now. They need any CB bodies. Jenkins and DRC both went out and showed how good depth would be a huge value. These guys who are FAs struggled as a whole.


The only bad play I recall Hall did in the 2nd half when he was playing FS was the angle on the TD pass to Brown that he got just barely over Jenkins. It could've been an easy pick.

But his negatives were nowhere even close to Wade's.


Hall had some blown coverages at FS. But comparing him at FS rather slot CB versus Wade isn't valid imo. Hall was worse than Wade in the slot by far. And I also thought Adams was better at FS than Hall.

Hall had two big plays (the FF and pick - which would have been had by Jenkins if he wasn't in the area because the throw was so bad), but other than that, he was noticeable for his mistakes. Adams wasn't. And Wade for the most part was a more solid contributor than Hall overall.

I was hoping this wouldn't be a shit on Wade thread, but any time his name comes up, people jump on that. I was hoping people would discuss FAs and draft picks. Guess that's too much to ask for.
RE: And yet ...  
Devon : 1/22/2017 7:04 pm : link
In comment 13335246 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... people want us to cut DRC.


It's not so much want as there's very clearly been smoke from the team, dating back to last offseason, that it's a real possibility for whatever reason.

It's something that should be taken into consideration when discussing what the team will or should do this year.
As I recall, they didn't give up on Hall  
Matt M. : 1/22/2017 9:05 pm : link
They were converting him to FS and having him work exclusively on that. DRC played the slot all year when both he and Apple were healthy. They wanted Apple in the .ore natural outside spot.
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