sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
RE: RE: If it's to get an asset or get rid of Noah's contract
sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
The problem is you need to trade Dieng too, cause his contract is terrible too. I will never get why they signed him to an extension in the first place.
he is a nice role player, but not what the Twolves need.
RE: RE: If it's to get an asset or get rid of Noah's contract
sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
from what i read twolves want a stop gap point guard to start until dunn is ready, apparently they dont like rubio,s fit..
noah could be the veteran presence they are lacking and with towns and dieng he doesnt have to play big minutes...
rubio and mohammed for noah and jennings and one of thos years 2nd? have to assume knicks have to send a draft pick to take on noah
RE: RE: RE: If it's to get an asset or get rid of Noah's contract
sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
The problem is you need to trade Dieng too, cause his contract is terrible too. I will never get why they signed him to an extension in the first place.
he is a nice role player, but not what the Twolves need.
Would they have to immediately? They aren't anywhere near the cap now and by the time they have to pay Wiggins and Lavine most of their big man contracts will be off the books. In other words, they will have $30M+ in cap space even if you assume Lavine and Wiggins are each getting max contracts.
Dont think theyd have trouble getting a team like the Lakers or the Nets to take on Dieng and maybe get a pick back in the process.
pekovic mohammed rubio for lance jennings and noah
Not sure if they would want to take on more long term salary than they are giving away. They could just pay Shabazz slightly more than LT if that were the case.
pekovic mohammed rubio for lance jennings and noah
Not sure if they would want to take on more long term salary than they are giving away. They could just pay Shabazz slightly more than LT if that were the case.
for whatever reason he refuses to stick with his man on defense and he can't rebound in traffic anymore. On the offense end he is chucking up bricks from difficult spots.
watching under the basket as Miles slams it back in.
Lee guarding PG is a death wish.
Melo is just feeding Indy back the ball on offense with lazy passes.
Fuck this team.
Melo has done nothing wrong this game. His pass to KP was PERFECT. He didnt roll. Porz has been the worst player in the stadium tonight, and that includes fans.
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
Well he gets pushed around by guards in the post. He cant be healthy.
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
because a point guard can push him around
That's the insane part. How the hell are they pushing him out the paint???
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
Right, all KP.
how can you possibly be watching this game and say kp is not killing the team?
It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
Right, all KP.
how can you possibly be watching this game and say kp is not killing the team?
I never said KP wasn't killing this team. But to say he's the sole reason they've sucked tonight is a farce. Yeah, he's off to a rough start offensively. But even if he makes half we are still losing we are still losing. And that with him altering at least three shots while on defense. This team is awful. None of them play any defense. They don't know who the hell to pass to or if someone will pass to them, and none can score outside of Melo so far.
Yes, KP hasn't been good. Neither has the rest of the team. It's not all on KP.
The Knicks must have taken in some of Indy's "entertainment"
He's got explosiveness and moves you don't see from many PGs. I wish he'd attack more and use that floater less but maybe he's afraid of getting hurt again. I don't know but he's still got moves.
RE: That's right Willy when they put a little guy on you
He's got explosiveness and moves you don't see from many PGs. I wish he'd attack more and use that floater less but maybe he's afraid of getting hurt again. I don't know but he's still got moves.
he said he added the floater when he first hirt his knee so he didnt always have to go to the rim
also it allows him to avoid taking contact every drive
Part of it is probably because he's a rookie, and part of it is because he's coming from a league that plays far less games in a season, and he wasn't playing starter minutes there either.
They're managing his minutes cautiously like they did with KP because he's never had to play this many games before in a single year.
not sure why, got halfway through and read how pitiful the Knicks were playing and thought, I'll go to NBA.com and check the score. So fourth quarter, 6 minutes left, and they are up 10???? WTF??
but I just love Willy's game. His post game is a thing of beauty and his passing is pretty damn good too, especially that swing pass out of the post to Holiday for the corner three. In a different era you could've run your whole offense through him in the post.
but I just love Willy's game. His post game is a thing of beauty and his passing is pretty damn good too, especially that swing pass out of the post to Holiday for the corner three. In a different era you could've run your whole offense through him in the post.
There's been a small revival with it with guys like Draymond and Julius Randle (although he starts at the top of the key).
If that interests you I'd watch Nikola Jokic highlights. He runs the offense out of the high posts and drops passes in the bucket to cutters like he's tom Brady.
I thought jahlil Okafor would be able to do that but passing is not one of his strengths to say the least inthe NBA.
We know he's not soft when healthy. He's not strong but he's been a very physical player and if that's gone there's something wrong.
I agree he's been a physical player and that's now lacking, which is worrisome. He seemed in good spirits on the postgame and chalked it up to his still being rusty after the layoff. But if there is something wrong, I wouldn't have a problem with shutting him down, at least for long enough to let the achilles heal beyond any doubt.
Wasn't enough, Dennis Smith dropped 32 and beat Duke in Cameron Indoor.
His jump shot looks more than legit. Drained contested 3 pointers and his drives to the rim remind me of Derrick Rose with his ability to convert scoop shots in traffic. Link - ( New Window )
Wasn't enough, Dennis Smith dropped 32 and beat Duke in Cameron Indoor.
His jump shot looks more than legit. Drained contested 3 pointers and his drives to the rim remind me of Derrick Rose with his ability to convert scoop shots in traffic. Link - ( New Window )
There was a piece last week suggesting Smith had the highest upside (lowest floor) of the big 3.
You know a trade is coming. I'm not sure how much the Korver trade helps. He hasn't looked good since he got there and at 36 years old, is clearly on the decline. Could have used that pick and Dunleavy's salary for something else. They are definitely playing with fire with no backup PG especially with Kyrie's injury history.
As a Knicks fan I hope a mega trade involving Melo is in the works but I know its unlikely. Regardless, I would be shopping Love like crazy. I think they could definitely find someone or a few players who fit a lot better than Kevin Love.
- he's not 4th overall pick good but Cody Zeller has become a nice player. Last night 13 and 9 with 2 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks 11 and 7 with 1 block 1 steal on 59% from the field on the season
-Dedmon 10 and 8, 1 block 1 steal, 1 assist. Has been a really nice signing for SA. Really liked him as a backup big for the Knicks.
-Dejounte Murray is actually getting serious burn for Pop and has played very well recently. Any doubt he's the next Spurs "find"?
-Austin Rivers last 5 games 19 and 4 on 49% from the field, 40% from 3
Parker+ Giannis combined for 60 points, 15 rebounds 10 assists, 5 blocks on 22 of 36 in an upset of the Rockets
-Terrence Jones 36 and 11 as the Pelicans beat the Cavs without Anthony Davis
You know a trade is coming. I'm not sure how much the Korver trade helps. He hasn't looked good since he got there and at 36 years old, is clearly on the decline. Could have used that pick and Dunleavy's salary for something else. They are definitely playing with fire with no backup PG especially with Kyrie's injury history.
As a Knicks fan I hope a mega trade involving Melo is in the works but I know its unlikely. Regardless, I would be shopping Love like crazy. I think they could definitely find someone or a few players who fit a lot better than Kevin Love.
I suspect they trade for someone like Deron Williams.
- he's not 4th overall pick good but Cody Zeller has become a nice player. Last night 13 and 9 with 2 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks 11 and 7 with 1 block 1 steal on 59% from the field on the season
-Dedmon 10 and 8, 1 block 1 steal, 1 assist. Has been a really nice signing for SA. Really liked him as a backup big for the Knicks.
-Dejounte Murray is actually getting serious burn for Pop and has played very well recently. Any doubt he's the next Spurs "find"?
-Austin Rivers last 5 games 19 and 4 on 49% from the field, 40% from 3
Parker+ Giannis combined for 60 points, 15 rebounds 10 assists, 5 blocks on 22 of 36 in an upset of the Rockets
-Terrence Jones 36 and 11 as the Pelicans beat the Cavs without Anthony Davis
It is amazing that the Spurs keep finding these guys and developing them. I really hope they find out a way to beef up their roster to make a run at the Warriors.
Duncan, David Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Pop and Buford all in the HOF with Leonard another potential HOFer down the line with Alridge having a shot as well. Pretty nuts.
You could probably make a trade work basketball wise
are HOFers? Don't you have to win MVPs or at least come close in multiple years to be a HOFer?
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
The basketball HOF tends to be much more liberal with induction
are HOFers? Don't you have to win MVPs or at least come close in multiple years to be a HOFer?
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
To be Manu is a hall of famer. Remember its the basketball HOF, not the NBA, so you have to account for his international success with Argentina.
RE: The basketball HOF tends to be much more liberal with induction
are HOFers? Don't you have to win MVPs or at least come close in multiple years to be a HOFer?
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
4 NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
2 NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
EuroLeague champion (2001)
EuroLeague Finals MVP (2001)
All-EuroLeague First Team (2002)
Italian Cup MVP (2002)
2 Italian League MVP (2001, 2002)
2 Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004)
Diamond Konex Award (2010)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
You probably know more about this than me Dan, so if they are HOFers, then I guess that's that. Just seems crazy to me that a guy could never be in the NBA mix, never be a all-nba first teamer and be in the HOF even with the international stuff.
Career highlights and awards
4 NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
NBA Finals MVP (2007)
6 NBA All-Star (2006, 2007, 2009, 20122014)
3 All-NBA Second Team (20122014)
All-NBA Third Team (2009)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2002)
NBA Skills Challenge champion (2012)
NBA Shooting Stars champion (2006)
FIBA EuroBasket MVP (2013)
2 FIBA EuroBasket Top Scorer (2011, 2013)
2 FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2 Euroscar Award (2007, 2013)
2 L'quipe Champion of Champions (2003, 2013)
Basketball reference puts Parker's HOF probability at 93.9%
Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
You probably know more about this than me Dan, so if they are HOFers, then I guess that's that. Just seems crazy to me that a guy could never be in the NBA mix, never be a all-nba first teamer and be in the HOF even with the international stuff.
Basketball HOF just isn't treated in the same way the others are (I'll defer to others on the hockey HOF because I really don't know/pay much attention to it) but the basketball HOF puts a lot of emphasis on winning/impact.
'What makes the Basketball Hall of Fame unique is that it isnt just a Hall of Fame for NBA achievements. Contributions to the game of basketball through the NBA, ABA, international competition, or college are weighed when determining a candidates worthiness.
Even if Ginobilis NBA statistics make him look like one of the inferior members of the Hall of Fame, his contributions to basketball as a whole have been immense.
Sarunas Marciulionis is in the Hall of Fame despite averaging only averaging 12.8 points per game in the NBA and never making an All Star team. His greatest accomplishments came while playing internationally, and if Marciulionis is Hall of Fame worthy, then certainly a guy like Ginobili is." Link - ( New Window )
'What makes the Basketball Hall of Fame unique is that it isnt just a Hall of Fame for NBA achievements. Contributions to the game of basketball through the NBA, ABA, international competition, or college are weighed when determining a candidates worthiness.
Even if Ginobilis NBA statistics make him look like one of the inferior members of the Hall of Fame, his contributions to basketball as a whole have been immense.
Sarunas Marciulionis is in the Hall of Fame despite averaging only averaging 12.8 points per game in the NBA and never making an All Star team. His greatest accomplishments came while playing internationally, and if Marciulionis is Hall of Fame worthy, then certainly a guy like Ginobili is." Link - ( New Window )
Interesting link. Thanks.
Well, I learned something today. I saw your post and was like "no way" and then looked him up on Wiki and felt even stronger about my opinion. I guess it's just a different criteria than MLB or NFL.
So are guys like Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony (given Cuse title), Chris Bosh likely to get in too?
because he won the Naismith three times in college and had a few great NBA seasons before the injuries. A player with a background comparable to Sampson would never make it in any other sports HOF, but the NBA is just different.
on talent/skill level Bosh wouldn't be a HoFer. Melo would be borderline but I think in actuality the odds may be against him but I could be wrong on that.
On resume alone D12 probably gets in. 8 All NBA teams (5 first team selections) and 3 DPOY awards.
Rondo supposedly is pushing for a buyout. You know where this ends up right? He goes to Cleveland and plays really well for them.
doesnt lebron and rondo hate each other?
No idea but he was over the top complimentary of him a few years back-
"You really cant, LeBron said. You just have to be in tune. Every time he has the ball, you always have to know that hes capable of making something happen, not only for himself, but for his teammates."
LeBron could have stopped there, but he continued with his scouting report.
For a point guard like Rondo, theres not many plays -- its crazy -- he doesnt get many plays called for him, but he makes all the right plays, if that makes any sense.
"Theres a lot of point guards -- like Derrick Rose -- he gets a lot of plays called for him, a lot of pick-and-roll sets, he comes off pindowns or floppy actions. But Rondo, hes either running pick-and-rolls or hes improvising on the break.
"You have to know that when he has the ball theres always a possibility or a chance that he can attack the rim, get under the rim, try to bring your defense into the paint and then spray it out to all those great shooters that they have.
You can make an argument that Manu was better than Dikembe, but I dont know why you'd be dismissive of DM. 4x defensive player of the year, 8 time all star, 3x all NBA 2nd/3rd teams. And we have no idea how old he really is. It's plausible to me that he came into the league in his late 20s (listed as a 25 year old rookie). Also a beloved personality who got around the league, i.e. spending time with the media in lots of cities.
DPOY seems to really help you get in (Zo 2x, Rodman 2x). There are other recent guys with much worse resumes than DM. Yao (though he was dominant), Chris Mullin, Dumars, Mitch Richmond. Better argument to me re Manu is that Mitch Richmond is in, vs. Dikembe.
is a lock in my view but I also think voters realize if he "wanted to" he could have put up gaudier scoring numbers but because he played for Pop/with the Spurs his numbers were less important than winning.
for Mullin, I hate saying it as an SJU alum but his NBA rep is greater than his career. He had a very short run of being a big player and played for a team putting up 110-120 points per game when he was putting up big numbers.
1989-1990 Warriors won 37 games with 4 HOFers Mullin, Richmond, Marciulionis and Hardaway (eventually)
But being an international player that helped the game grow and spread publicity and/or had success internationally or at the collegiate level seems to be almost Or as important as actual impact as a player in the NBA.
I don't think all star selections should be weighted that heavily since it's a popularity contest. Like how Kobe was garbage in his last season on a god awful team and got voted in and Tim Duncan was still a pretty good player on an amazing team and got left off. That's one example but there are lingering effects of legacy on the all star game (like how wade, rose and melo will be on the all star team this year).
But going back to my original point, a guy like STAT who at his peak was legitimately in a few MVP races and could've been considered a top 5 player on the Suns for a few years.
Was Dikembe ever a top 5 player in the league? Was he even ever a top 10 player?
I'm just saying if HoF in basketball was given the same criteria for HoF in other sports, you'd have guys like Mutumbo who'd more likely than not get left off and have guys like STAT who will never get serious consideration selected in.
The whole rings aspect of basketball compared to a sport like football is pretty ironic (outside the QB position of course). Ranking the top guys in basketball is all about the quantity of rings a guy has when in fact only 3-4 different teams get a ring in any given decade. Outside of the Jordans, Birds, Lebrons, Kobes, Duncans, etc. getting a ring is really a byproduct of who oh were drafted by, what teams had cap space when you became a FA, or how much (or little) money you took when you became a FA.
All that's to say a guy like Manu will be a no brainer selection (maybe even ignoring international play altogether) but at his peak was he really a better player than a guy like Demar Derozan (just someone off the top of my head, plenty of guys to plug in his place)?
is another lock for the hall of fame, but at this point it would be ridiculous (given current HoF criteria) to even consider John wall as a HoFer but at their respective peaks could you definitively say that Parker's best season was significantly better than the season wall is having now (not even considering defense where Wall is a premier defender and Parker was considered a liability for the most part but had Duncan, Bowen, Leonard etc. making up for him).
But being an international player that helped the game grow and spread publicity and/or had success internationally or at the collegiate level seems to be almost Or as important as actual impact as a player in the NBA.
I don't think all star selections should be weighted that heavily since it's a popularity contest. Like how Kobe was garbage in his last season on a god awful team and got voted in and Tim Duncan was still a pretty good player on an amazing team and got left off. That's one example but there are lingering effects of legacy on the all star game (like how wade, rose and melo will be on the all star team this year).
But going back to my original point, a guy like STAT who at his peak was legitimately in a few MVP races and could've been considered a top 5 player on the Suns for a few years.
Was Dikembe ever a top 5 player in the league? Was he even ever a top 10 player?
I'm just saying if HoF in basketball was given the same criteria for HoF in other sports, you'd have guys like Mutumbo who'd more likely than not get left off and have guys like STAT who will never get serious consideration selected in.
The whole rings aspect of basketball compared to a sport like football is pretty ironic (outside the QB position of course). Ranking the top guys in basketball is all about the quantity of rings a guy has when in fact only 3-4 different teams get a ring in any given decade. Outside of the Jordans, Birds, Lebrons, Kobes, Duncans, etc. getting a ring is really a byproduct of who oh were drafted by, what teams had cap space when you became a FA, or how much (or little) money you took when you became a FA.
All that's to say a guy like Manu will be a no brainer selection (maybe even ignoring international play altogether) but at his peak was he really a better player than a guy like Demar Derozan (just someone off the top of my head, plenty of guys to plug in his place)?
I'd admittedly bias because I am big fan of his, but you cannot easily plug in a player to replace Manu. In my eyes he is truly a great player that brings so much to helping you win. Clutch, good defender, great passer, great shooter...all around a very unique and great player.
I also think Tony Parker is being undersold a little. He may not have been a CP3 level defender, but he was still always solid. Also was in the MVP discussion a few times and was definitely the best point guard in the game at times. The stats just dont reflect it for these guys because they spread the ball around so much.
but if you replace John Wall with Parker, does the level of team success drop dramatically? No way you can make HoF criteria based off "what ifs", but how many similarly-skilled players will get scoffed at if you bring them up in HoF discussions?
It's a credit to Pop, not arguing that. But playing with one of the 10 best players of all time and greatest coach of all time certainly makes things easier. I don't think Wall would be some scrub in SA. But Wall will be looked down upon when it comes down to these things simply because he was taken by a franchise that screws things up. Wall hasn't played with a player who was considered top 30 at any given time in the NBA (maybe Beal this year?) but Parker and Manu played with an arguably top 10 ever.
My overall point is there are players who were top 5-10 overall players in the league that won't get any consideration due to being on inept teams, but Parker and Ginobili are locks and were arguably never top 10 players in the NBA ever.
otherwise, your criteria would be pretty reasonable.
Yeah and I acknowledged that. But I think both players would've got voted in simply based on NBA accolades alone. My point was that I think rings are unfairly used to judge secondary and tertiary "stars".
for every sport. People take this stuff way too seriously. I always get a kick out of clowns like Peter King going into detail about how emotional and passionate people get in the "room" where all of the idiot NFL writers get together. It's a joke. It should be treated like a museum instead of this exalted honor that is bestowed upon these guys by an electorate that is often clueless. Not only that, but getting into the HOF can have a positive financial impact for a lot of these guys later in life. And it's good for the fans of the player who get to celebrate his achievements.
for every sport. People take this stuff way too seriously. I always get a kick out of clowns like Peter King going into detail about how emotional and passionate people get in the "room" where all of the idiot NFL writers get together. It's a joke. It should be treated like a museum instead of this exalted honor that is bestowed upon these guys by an electorate that is often clueless. Not only that, but getting into the HOF can have a positive financial impact for a lot of these guys later in life. And it's good for the fans of the player who get to celebrate his achievements.
Yeah I'm for this too. My point was not to knock guys like Parker and Manu out but more to say if they are going to get in, why not push in guys like STAT, who were dominant but didn't have team/international/college success as well.
It sure looked like there may have been a goaltend on one of Rose's unsuccessful trips to the hoop. Of course TNT didn't feel the need to show a replay. Is it possible they're ignoring stuff like this down the stretch in games on purpose?
It sure looked like there may have been a goaltend on one of Rose's unsuccessful trips to the hoop. Of course TNT didn't feel the need to show a replay. Is it possible they're ignoring stuff like this down the stretch in games on purpose?
They showed it on the replay and said the refs missed it. Happened a few minutes after the play when they came back from a commercial.
Tommy Beer @TommyBeer 21m21 minutes ago
Henangomez is also on pace to become just third qualified rookie in the last 30 years to average at least 15 points & 13 rebs per-36 minutes The other two rookies to average 15 points and 12 rebounds per-36 minutes were Kevin Love and Shaq
He made Al Jefferson look old and slow last night. His footwork in the post is really good. He's a bit of a throwback down there and is also a really good roll man in the PnR. Offensively, all he needs to show is that 18 footer and he could be a beast.
RE: Willy is the second best post player on the Knicks behind Melo
He made Al Jefferson look old and slow last night. His footwork in the post is really good. He's a bit of a throwback down there and is also a really good roll man in the PnR. Offensively, all he needs to show is that 18 footer and he could be a beast.
Father time made Al Jefferson look old and slow.
Willy is VERY good at moving to the basket. Not just PnR -- he finds good lines to take that set him up for passes and easy buckets. If it keeps up in the coming years he will cause a lot of havoc to opposing defensive schemes. All well and good to have a plan until a 6'11 250 pounder is slicing you up in the paint. If he gets better defensively (and there are reasons to think he can, though he'll never be great), he's a 33 mpg center in this league. And if not, there is still a role for a guy who can score and rebound like that.
that LeBron had sums him up perfectly. Jumped from Cleveland to Miami to win. Jumped back to Cleveland to win. He's a diva. He wants all the perks and none of the responsibilities.
He's right. Put their big 3 aside. Thompson is a 7-9-1 guy. Some of the advanced stats like him, but really, he's fee as hell to be efficient because he's an afterthought. JR and Shump were cast off of a terrible Knicks team (and JR is hurt). Korver got old, and is not the player he was in 2013-14 and 2014-15 when he led the NBA in true shooting. Jefferson should not be in any rotation. Frye is a decent piece but is not a real big.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
He's right. Put their big 3 aside. Thompson is a 7-9-1 guy. Some of the advanced stats like him, but really, he's fee as hell to be efficient because he's an afterthought. JR and Shump were cast off of a terrible Knicks team (and JR is hurt). Korver got old, and is not the player he was in 2013-14 and 2014-15 when he led the NBA in true shooting. Jefferson should not be in any rotation. Frye is a decent piece but is not a real big.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
Well then he can look in the mirror because he's the GM. He's the one who boasted after they won last year that "they said J.R. was a throw-in". This is the team HE wanted. Now you're gonna complain?
That being said... even if he's right, you don't say that in a rant to the media, and then to say they're top heavy? What does that say to the rest of the team? Great leadership skills right there.
as for J.R., he's hurt. His absence actually hurts them a good amount because he can take some of the primary scoring responsibility award. Korver and Frye are nice complementary shooters, but you cant go 5 minutes with them being top options.
Im not sure how much he really is their GM. I think he dictated the Wiggins trade. But is he making these little draft pick moves? I dont think so. Is he deciding who the picks are? No. I think he leans on ownership to resign guys, but suspect he's a lot less involved in trades.
He's right. Put their big 3 aside. Thompson is a 7-9-1 guy. Some of the advanced stats like him, but really, he's fee as hell to be efficient because he's an afterthought. JR and Shump were cast off of a terrible Knicks team (and JR is hurt). Korver got old, and is not the player he was in 2013-14 and 2014-15 when he led the NBA in true shooting. Jefferson should not be in any rotation. Frye is a decent piece but is not a real big.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
I think TT could be a double double machine on a lesser team. Ultimate role player and invaluable to thr cavs rostr.
they would ideally replace TT with a similar salary player. But no ones touching TT on that contract unless they are getting picks, let alone giving up anyone.
This slump essentially has lasted since early December. He shot 40.2 percent in December; hes shooting 31.3 percent from 3 in January. Porzingis didnt have a single defensive rebound in 33 minutes on Saturday against the Suns, and he took an ill-advised 3-pointer early in the shot clock late in that contest.
For all his unicorn skills, its time to back off on proclaiming Porzingis a definite future superstar. Nothing is guaranteed even if his popularity still is growing. The NBA announced Tuesday, citing data from the NBA Store, he is seventh in jersey sales.
Porzingis, with his slight build, hit a rookie wall last season and is in a sophomore swoon. His shooting percentage has dropped to 44.9 percent. Carmelo Anthony was right during training camp that expectations were too high on a 21-year-old European in his second season still learning the NBA game when to pass, how to rebound, how to post up. Link - ( New Window )
Thompson might be a 10-10-1 guy on another team, but I dont think he'd be all that effective. I just dont think that much of his game. A starter, but a low end one on a very good team.
As for KP, his body needs a lot of development. Hopefully he gets there, but there is a chance it takes a while, or he doesnt/cant handle a lot more weight. I still think he doesnt sniff his peak until he's on his next contract.
Thompson might be a 10-10-1 guy on another team, but I dont think he'd be all that effective. I just dont think that much of his game. A starter, but a low end one on a very good team.
As for KP, his body needs a lot of development. Hopefully he gets there, but there is a chance it takes a while, or he doesnt/cant handle a lot more weight. I still think he doesnt sniff his peak until he's on his next contract.
TT wouldn't be a bad next to KP. But his role on the Cavs is as good as it can get for him. His contract in itself isn't hurting the Cavs and if the Cavs had any intriguing assets his contract would be beneficial because they won't be able to add any non-minimum players. They need to trade love if they're looking for a shakeup.
As for what TT would look like on a lesser team I think you end up with Taj Gibson sans a jump shot.
There are some combos of Melo-Love trades that work. Love and Jefferson for Melo and Jennings. Love and Shump for Melo, Jennings, and Lance/KOQ. Jennings, KOQ, Holiday, Kuz are all inexpensive pieces that Cleveland could use right now, and push comes to shove I'd part with any of them to swap Melo for Love (solely to move Love along in a trade).
There are some combos of Melo-Love trades that work. Love and Jefferson for Melo and Jennings. Love and Shump for Melo, Jennings, and Lance/KOQ. Jennings, KOQ, Holiday, Kuz are all inexpensive pieces that Cleveland could use right now, and push comes to shove I'd part with any of them to swap Melo for Love (solely to move Love along in a trade).
Yep, that last part is the key - Love is much easier to trade than Melo. Ideally you'd just do a three-teamer, but if that's too complicated right now just pull the trigger on this one.
There are some combos of Melo-Love trades that work. Love and Jefferson for Melo and Jennings. Love and Shump for Melo, Jennings, and Lance/KOQ. Jennings, KOQ, Holiday, Kuz are all inexpensive pieces that Cleveland could use right now, and push comes to shove I'd part with any of them to swap Melo for Love (solely to move Love along in a trade).
Love for Melo is a lateral move in context for how the Cavs would play against GS.
I think melo can help a bunch of playoff teams get better but the Cavs are not one. He wouldn't last guarding Draymond or have Draymond guard him.
And Orlando called you up with Gordon, Ibaka, hezonja and pick(s) for Wiggins and Dieng would you do it?
Lost in all the hype/letdown of Aaron Gordon is that he is a stud defensive player first, second and third. Moving from PF to SF for sure caused him to struggle but at least Towns can space the floor unlike Biyombo. I think Towns and lavine by themselves can carry the offensive load in 1-2 years and Towns, Dunn, Gordon and Ibaka would be one hell of a defensive/rebounding corps.
Melo for Love is basically an even swap for this season (I think Melo is better but if you think Love is better, fine). We add pieces to offset the fact that Melo's future value is lower than Love's. Cleveland does it because they need depth now.
Love will not return 2 or 3 starters if one of them is as good as Melo. Cleveland is also boxed in by what contracts they have to ship back -- you cant give $40 million in contracts for Love without taking back something from the Cavs you probably dont want (Shump). And if you're giving a Melo type player and someone else who fits under the cap but is a legit starter, that second player is probably really valuable.
And Orlando called you up with Gordon, Ibaka, hezonja and pick(s) for Wiggins and Dieng would you do it?
Lost in all the hype/letdown of Aaron Gordon is that he is a stud defensive player first, second and third. Moving from PF to SF for sure caused him to struggle but at least Towns can space the floor unlike Biyombo. I think Towns and lavine by themselves can carry the offensive load in 1-2 years and Towns, Dunn, Gordon and Ibaka would be one hell of a defensive/rebounding corps.
I would not. I would bet on the upside of Wiggins. I think there is a good chance he puts it together and is a guy who can be at least a 3rd best player on a contending team. Less confidence in the ORL guys. I might think about it harder if Ibaka had term.
Wiggins will be a really good player, there's just something about him that screams low BBIQ to me. Plays with blinders on, is a bad shot taker/maker. I like his defensive upside still though.
And they are not going to do much to change the current roster as they have already provided him with a championship caliber roster. And they just added an elite shooter. Maybe he and his coach should play some fcking defense- since they are rated like middle of the pack there. The front office will not make any radical moves as they believe the team now is better then last year- they are just lazy and underperforming. And even if they wanted to get another pg - lebron just raised the asking price by publicly sounding desperate.
They just gave up 70 points in the first half to the no Davis pelicans. What a fcking baby bitch.
And they are not going to do much to change the current roster as they have already provided him with a championship caliber roster. And they just added an elite shooter. Maybe he and his coach should play some fcking defense- since they are rated like middle of the pack there. The front office will not make any radical moves as they believe the team now is better then last year- they are just lazy and underperforming. And even if they wanted to get another pg - lebron just raised the asking price by publicly sounding desperate.
They just gave up 70 points in the first half to the no Davis pelicans. What a fcking baby bitch.
If you didnt censor yourself there I would've had to report you to the fcking mods.
and they somehow ended up with Love for Melo...what do you do with Love? Keep him? Flip him for picks and players? If you're moving him, which teams would work? He was always linked with Boston but having Horford already there means it's no longer a great fit.
and they somehow ended up with Love for Melo...what do you do with Love? Keep him? Flip him for picks and players? If you're moving him, which teams would work? He was always linked with Boston but having Horford already there means it's no longer a great fit.
You move Horford to the 5 and adding love would help the rebounding issue. But it would also exacerbate their defensive issues.
I wouldn't worry about finding suitors for Love. He's always been tied to the Lakers, maybe you can get Randle/Clarkson for him. Maybe D-lo? That may be a stretch. Not enticing but certainly more than you'd get for Melo.
Denver is another interesting spot. They have assets galore, maybe you can pry some combo of Harris, Murray, Beasley, nurkic and picks. Have been really turned off by Mudiay but if he was a throw in I'd be intrigued.
I think the Raptors would give you the reported Milsap haul. Not super intriguing but Ross, Patterson and picks. Since Love is 4 years younger he could command more from them. Maybe Joseph and Powell? Not the best return but a few players to place around KP and Willy.
The Sixers? This is a bit out of the ballpark but if they're already going to be a playoff team then why not go all in for Love. He'd give them about 4 prime years and maybe a few more useful ones after that. Some combo of Okafor, Noel, saric, Stauskas and Holmes would be very enticing (obviously they wouldn't give more than 2-3 of those guys but I'd take say saric and noel). Maybe a pipe dream, they can certainly just let things grow organically and still be well off. Not suggesting saric is going to be some Love-caliber type player but if he's even a Gallo-type then they're better off keeping him as he's only 21 or 22.
Was just listening to jalen and jacoby(don't ask why)
and jalen believes lebron was telling the FO to get melo. Says he thinks Cleveland would make that trade and might have to add pieces. Also believes the clippers want melo too. Assuming what he said has some reality to it....Blake or love? I'm not sure I'd like to keep either, because the return could be too good. Obviously the next step is to make everyone available via trade. I think we have multiple assets that can help other teams.
RE: Was just listening to jalen and jacoby(don't ask why)
and jalen believes lebron was telling the FO to get melo. Says he thinks Cleveland would make that trade and might have to add pieces. Also believes the clippers want melo too. Assuming what he said has some reality to it....Blake or love? I'm not sure I'd like to keep either, because the return could be too good. Obviously the next step is to make everyone available via trade. I think we have multiple assets that can help other teams.
The obvious solution for either would be a 3 way trade with Boston.
without an indication he'd resign (or in a 3 way). I guess with the new CBA it's a lot more likely he resigns.
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
without an indication he'd resign (or in a 3 way). I guess with the new CBA it's a lot more likely he resigns.
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
blake should talk to amare about how he adapted his game and how he tried not be just dunking on people..
i do think griffin has done a good job adding to his game
do you really accomplish what Lebron wants when you do that? Boston is their biggest threat in the east. You are maybe getting marginally better, but Boston is improving a lot(I think its a lateral move at best for Cleveland, but maybe you get a motivated Melo).
give two shits about what happens in the East, outside of maybe TOR making a huge add. BOS is not that good, and Love doesnt make them scary in my opinion.
you may be right. It just seems like Lebron needs it to be easy. I think Boston gives them a fight with Love and I don't know if Melo really makes Cleveland better. That being said, I'm not sure I read Lebron's comments like Jalen did. He says they are top heavy and need to add scoring.
Interesting breakdown of how Plumlee, while remaining very limited, surprisingly doesn't really suck. Lots of video clips showing Plumlee having some value due to being fundamentally sound and very active - the only way he can be in the league at all.
Quote:
When the Knicks signed Marshall Plumlee to a guaranteed deal in the offseason, I was not too thrilled. Plumlee played four years at Duke, and didn't really show all that much during that time; he has very little skill on the offensive end, and his physical makeup leaves much to be desired (particularly his wingspan and standing reach). To top it off, the Knicks had already guaranteed roster spots for four other centers. Basically, this Plumlee was an energy big who didn't do much else. What was the point of bringing him in over guys like Chasson Randle?
Halfway through the season, that question has finally been answered (although we won't know whether or not it was the right decision for quite some time). The sorry excuse for a scouting report that you just read has actually been pretty accurate -- Plumlee really doesn't do much of anything on offense. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. But the energy, hustle, and commitment he's known for has translated surprisingly well, particularly on defense, reaching its apex during last Wednesday's victory in Boston.
give two shits about what happens in the East, outside of maybe TOR making a huge add. BOS is not that good, and Love doesnt make them scary in my opinion.
Totally agree here. It's all about beating the Warriors in the finals.
I think Melo on the Raptors does improve them dramatically. If Jackson is going to trade Carmelo, he needs to create a few options to get some leverage/ bargaining going. If I'm the Cavs/ Lebron, would you rather swap Love for Melo/ Jennings and maybe a guard from Boston ( Smart?) or see Melo go to the Raptors.
you may be right. It just seems like Lebron needs it to be easy. I think Boston gives them a fight with Love and I don't know if Melo really makes Cleveland better. That being said, I'm not sure I read Lebron's comments like Jalen did. He says they are top heavy and need to add scoring.
i read it as they need bench help, guys who have started in the nba before who dont mind coming off the bench...
he mentioend guys like dahntay jones, that tells me end of the bench
-Dejounte Murray continues to get considerable burn for a 20 year old 2016 29th overall pick on a title contender. Last night 23 minutes 11 points 3 boards 2 assists, 1 block, Last 5 11, 3 and 3 on 57% from the field. Different teams, needs, flaws but if he can get his minutes then Willy should too. Spurs beat Toronto with Leonard sitting
-Austin Rivers 20, 2 and 3. I like to mock him but he's played very well recently.
-Noel 19 points 8 boards 5 assists 2 steals 3 blocks. The Sixers would be crazy to give him away for anything less than a solid return pending $$ or not. If he ends up somewhere like Cleveland for garbage I'm going to be furious.
-Saric 16 and 8, 2 assists, 1 steal. He's been in a shooting slump but I like what I've seen.
-John Wall is almost underrated at this point. This season 23 and 10 with 5 boards and 2 steals
-Mirotic stinks. 38% from the field, 30% from 3.
-Jokic 23 and 11 with 6 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks... quite a talent
-Tyson Chandler 22 and 17, really having a nice season
played really well vs. the Celts. The article makes a good point about his BBIQ and hustle. Even if he plays once every 10 games, he gives the coaches someone to point to in practice to say "this f'ing rookie is doing it right, why arent you"? I've long thought that the end of the bench was less about how talented the player is and more about how those 13, 14, and 15 guys play and practice. You can buy cheap character and chemistry with those slots.
Plus they have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year.
I think Okafor will be the guy they want to get rid of. Their defense is way to good with Noel and Embiid out there together and they don't even have guards that can defend for shit yet.
I know they said they will play him there, but that's for now. Long term, he doesnt have the shot to do that, it takes him away from the rebounding zones, not clear he can defend the 1, and you want him marked by opposing bigs in transition. He will eat bigs alive in transition, and if guards go to guard him it will allow for easy kick out 3s.
Plus they have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year.
I think Okafor will be the guy they want to get rid of. Their defense is way to good with Noel and Embiid out there together and they don't even have guards that can defend for shit yet.
they do not play embiid and noel together and if they do it is for 1 or 2 minutes, brett brown doesnt think it works
they are a top offensive team
their defense is middle of the pack.
the front office knows that.
maybe if Lebron became good at defense again and shumpert stopped thinking he was an offensive player... they might be better off.
its on the players and coach--- the FO put a championship squad in place
I know they said they will play him there, but that's for now. Long term, he doesnt have the shot to do that, it takes him away from the rebounding zones, not clear he can defend the 1, and you want him marked by opposing bigs in transition. He will eat bigs alive in transition, and if guards go to guard him it will allow for easy kick out 3s.
I'm not sure when they say they are going to play him at PG that means they won't be playing 2 other guards out there. He's not going to be able to defend 1s at all and I'm not sure you'd want him wasting his energy doing so either.
they are a top offensive team
their defense is middle of the pack.
the front office knows that.
maybe if Lebron became good at defense again and shumpert stopped thinking he was an offensive player... they might be better off.
its on the players and coach--- the FO put a championship squad in place
shumpert is an overrated defender, he had some nice defense 1 on 1 but off the ball he is horrible
I think Noel is the guy you want to keep. He'll maintain the backbone of a good defense when Embiid is on the bench or if he gets hurt.
I think they dont like his attitude, he doesnt like how he was handled, and he will need to get paid this offseason as a RFA in a market where at least half the league will probably have room to offer a Noah-type contract after guys start opting out (and many teams will be facing the cap floor).
"Now Hernangomez actually 7 feet despite being listed at 6-foot-11 has three straight overpowering games under his belt. Hornacek seems ready to see beyond the fact hes just a second-round draft pick and play him more than the 13 minutes per night hes been averaging, though still not ready to start him.
Were looking for consistency, Hornacek said, doing it every single game. Willy has proven that. Three games in a row hes gotten in there and performed with that energy and what were asking him to do with the hard rolling.
"We all know that LeBron would love to have Carmelo on his side and the feeling is mutual....In a perfect world, Anthony would be a great sixth man for the Cavs, but at his cap number approximately $27 million when you throw in his trade kicker its nearly impossible for that trade to happen."
"Toronto doesnt have much to offer, while Doc Rivers would love to add Carmelo to his win-now team. According to a source, the Clippers are unwilling trade anyone of significance."
Jalen Rose said that LeBrons comments about "needing a playmaker" is actually about getting Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love.
Stephen A. Smith believes Knicks would be willing to take Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony (ESPN)
Sources have told me Cavs have no interest in Melo and wouldn't trade Love for him. The Melo to CLE thing ain't happening.- Ryan Russillo Twitter
the important issue is who finishes games. Also, after a bad start, Noah is playing well. Not the stuff that jumps off the box score (rebounding 10.7/game in 23.6 minutes in January tho). But the advanced stats are singing his praises. And he's doing it in unsheltered minutes, unlike Willy.
I dont think Willy should start. I think he should see 20+ mpg, and we should trade KOQ.
I think Noel is the guy you want to keep. He'll maintain the backbone of a good defense when Embiid is on the bench or if he gets hurt.
I think they dont like his attitude, he doesnt like how he was handled, and he will need to get paid this offseason as a RFA in a market where at least half the league will probably have room to offer a Noah-type contract after guys start opting out (and many teams will be facing the cap floor).
He's going to get more than Noah no doubt. It'll be interesting to see. They'll be able to get much, much more for Noel than for Okafor. But they also don't really have to pay anyone right now. And if the sixers are winning and Noel is getting 25 minutes a game even if he's not starting does that change anything for him? I don't think they'll have any shortage of suitors for him even if he gets a pretty decent sized contract.
how does Noel get 25 mpg? He's getting 19.8 mpg in January (less on the full season but he was hurt), which doesnt count a game he sat (healthy I think). And that is with Embiid missing 3 games, and on a minutes restriction to 26.4 mpg this month.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
how does Noel get 25 mpg? He's getting 19.8 mpg in January (less on the full season but he was hurt), which doesnt count a game he sat (healthy I think). And that is with Embiid missing 3 games, and on a minutes restriction to 26.4 mpg this month.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
Noel has to go if he or Embiid cant play some 4.
I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
how does Noel get 25 mpg? He's getting 19.8 mpg in January (less on the full season but he was hurt), which doesnt count a game he sat (healthy I think). And that is with Embiid missing 3 games, and on a minutes restriction to 26.4 mpg this month.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
Noel has to go if he or Embiid cant play some 4.
Brett Brown does not do it, when all 3 are healthy okafor has sat..
he tried it at the beginning of the season but didnt like it
Kristaps Porzingis has been playing through a swollen right (shooting) elbow, but he's not using that as an excuse for his recent shooting woes.
Porzingis' elbow has reportedly swollen to the size of a golf ball, but it doesn't sound like he's expecting the injury to force him to spend any time on the sidelines, simply stating, "it's been like that for a while."
I'd go a step further and say he's a bouncier Tyson chandler. I think he can change the outlook of your defense entirely.
The McCollum/Noel trade would certainly be interesting but I think Portland would overrate CJ too much and I'm not sure the two teams would be able to get it worked out. I think they'd ask for too many picks from philly in addition but if they don't that's a perfect trade partner.
He still never would have been better than marginal in the NBA.
Okafor's issues are more about desire IMO. Don't think staying in college would have changed that.
Winslow, maybe, but he still may not have developed much of an offensive game. He could score just fine in college because, at that level, he could physically overpower most of the wings he played against. He did just fine without refined skills. At the NBA level, he's not big enough to play that bullyball style against NBA 3s and he doesn't have the skill to score on NBA 2s. He's a tweener, and unless he develops at least an average jump shot he's going nowhere.
I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
Attitude issues aside (I cant assess), Im a Noel fan. I think he's a real difference maker on D. On offense, I think he's be a really good pick and role big. It is tough to judge him since he is a guy who needs a guard to set him up, and Philly has had the worst offensive guard play I've ever seen for his career. And unlike a Tyson Chandler type (who shoots 36% at 3-10 feet), Noel has a burgeoning jumper -- 60% this year from 3-10, 54% from 16-<3 this season (notably on just 11 and 15 attempts, respectively). There is a chance he could end up with a somewhat workable shot.
But I wouldnt do that trade if Im POR. In the modern NBA, with 3s playing so much 4, bigs are gettable. You may have to pay them $$. But they hit free agency. Guards dont.
I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
Attitude issues aside (I cant assess), Im a Noel fan. I think he's a real difference maker on D. On offense, I think he's be a really good pick and role big. It is tough to judge him since he is a guy who needs a guard to set him up, and Philly has had the worst offensive guard play I've ever seen for his career. And unlike a Tyson Chandler type (who shoots 36% at 3-10 feet), Noel has a burgeoning jumper -- 60% this year from 3-10, 54% from 16-<3 this season (notably on just 11 and 15 attempts, respectively). There is a chance he could end up with a somewhat workable shot.
But I wouldnt do that trade if Im POR. In the modern NBA, with 3s playing so much 4, bigs are gettable. You may have to pay them $$. But they hit free agency. Guards dont.
Tough to argue that. I just would hate Philly to do what Minny did with Dieng. Now I think Noel is better than Dieng, but to over dedicate resources can be bad as well.
If Minny had to do it over again, you wonder if they would have Dieng that contract this year. 4 for 64 seems like a bad move.
His good footwork I think disguised just how bad his athleticism is. The guy just has no ups. We saw it in summer league, when KP just bottled him up by being tall -- even though Okafor is 10x stronger than KP and has the moves/quicks to burn him. It's tough to be a below the rim center in the NBA.
Then you have his mental issues. I dont think it is laziness. I think his BB mind fires slowly. He's mentally built to be a great 1990s player -- one on one post battles. In the 2010s movement based NBA he's kind of fucked. He doesnt see plays fast enough. So on offense it doesnt hurt him badly because he can do his ISO thing and spot kick outs. On defense they just run past him though. Still, he can score, and if he gets his rebounding up (I think it's possible), he can be fine. Just not a franchise player in all likelihood unless he absolutely maximizes his scoring potential (which I think goes above 25 ppg).
Okafor needs a defensive presence at the 4 who can
without an indication he'd resign (or in a 3 way). I guess with the new CBA it's a lot more likely he resigns.
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
While I agree that Blake would fit nicely with KP and it would be a homerun trade the for Knicks, it's not allowed under the CBA. Bobby Marks explained that one team cannot have 2 designated rookie max players acquired in a trade( Derrick Rose being the other). I'm sure there is some sort of work around, but just an interesting note.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Short of getting Harden, Westbrook, Davis, cousins or Towns or moving the Spurs to Pittsburgh I don't think there's a player any EC team can get to put them over Cleveland.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
If Boston is going to give us Crowder+. Let that be their own pick, Brown or any other recent first rounder that won't crack their rotation anytime soon.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How would the Cavs get rose unless they part with shump, jr or TT?
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
add crowder done deal no crowder no..
Willy could be your starting center for the next 10 years
and then Melo will say no. That's just the way things are with the Knicks.
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
MIN would likely want some veteran PG in return so Dunn isn't relied on too much. It would probably lead to something like Jennings, Noah and Lee for Rubio, Dieng and Shabazz
Boston has a significant amount of picks due to them.
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Even if it's not the #1 the difference between the #1 and #3 pick seems negligible (at least now, from whatever I can tell). Assuming we are getting Crowder and if not I'd want some combo of their recent 1st round picks or future Celtics-owned picks.
Yes I know Memphis is a city that would be "WTF" for Melo but if he's really open to waiving his NTC it would be a great fit.
Maybe something like Melo for Parsons, Baldwin, Martin and a future 1st? Not super enticing but you get some young guys.
Rockets? Yeah, I know, I know. He won't fit the Dantoni system but is Ryan Anderson really fitting it all that well?
And as much as the rockets have been a huge surprise and I think Morey should win exec of the year, Harden MVP and Dantoni COY, they're still a far cry away from really being a contender. They're much closer to Utah, LAC (with CP3), and Memphis than they are to Cleveland, GS or SA. They have plenty of assets I love. Id take Dekker and Anderson if that's what it came to. Maybe you can pry Harrell and a pick off them too and toss them KOQ, Kuz and Holiday if need be.
because they have like 6 first rounders in the next 3 years. I'd rather not take on any salary and only add picks which only Boston could do. That being said, I really don't see Melo accepting a trade there without a full court press by the team/players.
Melo and Brandon Jennings to Cleveland, Love to Boston, A. Johnson, picks and various cap filler from Boston and Cleveland to NY.
Boston does it because they would have a starting 5 to at least give a go to anyone in the East. Cleveland may do it because LeBron wants to do it- and gets Jennings to reduce the load on Irving and LeBron handling the ball. The Knicks would likely do it to start over, so long as they get at least on- likely 2 of those probable top 5 picks in the future from Boston.
Will it happen? I doubt it because Cleveland might not want to help a rival. But, if LeBron leans on ownership enough, it could happen.
Outside Andersons 40% 3 point shooting he's liability in every other respect. He's probably the worst rebounding and defensive 4 in the league. He's getting 30 minutes a game and doesn't even average 1 assist. Averages half a steal and a fifth of a block. Clear spot for improvement on the rockets roster and we all know Morey always has his ears open when it comes to getting big names.
Melo for Crowder+ is not a power move to compete with the Cavs. It is an upgrade (and Im sure Melo haters will say it is a downgrade). Melo for Amir Johnson+ is such a power move.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
around the draft I heard that he would have been ranked around #20 if he was in the 2016 draft. I have to think his value is improved from that, given his solid start (by winshares, he'd be the #3 player so far in the 2016 draft, after Rogdon and Siakam, who are both getting more run).
Knowing what you now know, where does Willy go in the 2016 draft? He's clearly into the lottery, and maybe mid-lottery.
Knicks get: Anderson, KJ McDaniels, Brewer, Dekker and harrel (maybe a future 1st rounder and 86 Harrel if they don't want to part with too many promising young guys )
Rockets get: Melo, KOQ, Lee, Holiday and Kuz
Knicks do it because they're are diving straight for a rebuild. I think Dekker has legit potential to be an 18-20 ppg scorer in the league (Jon where are you, forgive me for frank bashing?). Harrel looks like a bigger and stronger Kenny Faried. Just a monster around the rim.
Rockets do it because aside from getting rid of some young players, they convert a lot of dead weight into useful players. KOQ more or less will match the production of Harrel in the short term. Holiday/Kuz will essentially do the same for Dekker. They also get Lee who would be a great shooter off the bench. Overall, they replace Anderson with Melo and improve their bench in the process.
I guess if the Knicks love Harrell and Dekker I'd live with it, sure.
Also, that's a pure 4 and a big 3 coming back. Pushes up against our depth, which is at the 4/5. I'd love to turn Melo into a guard prospect, then add another 1-2-3 in the draft with our pick.
Would I sound biased to say he'd be a top 10 pick? He'd certainly go ahead of Poetl.
I was down on NO for taking Hield but if he's going to be a 12-15 ppg starter who shoots 40% from 3 and plays solid defense he might've been one of the better value picks in the draft (maybe a peak Courtney Lee from his rockets days?). Maybe a tie between Willy and Hield.
I don't think anyone was expecting Bender to be some future superstar. By even a lot of scout's accounts he was more of a guy who would be a plus starter given the way the NBA was transitioning (a 12 and 8 guy who gives you spacing at the 4 or 5). Id take Willy over him now.
Not knocking Murray, but I thought before the draft the nuggets were drafted a 6th man. Given how bad this draft looked, I think that was a positive and not a bad pick. I was down on his long term future of being a starter on a good team. But given his atrocious defense, horrible shot selection, and inability to play PG, I would take Willy over Murray.
I've stated my case for Ingram a few days ago, I'd still take him over Willy but it would be close.
I'd also still take brown. If he can get his jump shot down I think he's a bigger, more athletic Jae Crowder.
Dunn has struggled but his two way potential at PG will leave him as a pretty good starter down the line, id give the edge to Dunn.
Chriss is interesting. That would be a tough call. Still don't know what Chriss is going to be. His athleticism/shooting makes him one of the highest upside guys behind Simmons, Ingram and brown. But his floor is much lower than Willys.
Dont think I have to argue much for Willy over maker/sabonis.
Brogdon is another close call. No real flaws, but he's not going to be some superstar. He's a perfect PG if you have 2-3 studs at the other spots. So I'd say Willy given his age advantage. But I wouldn't argue the other way.
Maybe not too 5 but I think Willy would be in the 6-9 range.
simply because of his height. He had a 7'5" wingspan, insane strength and athleticism. I'd take him over most current pure centers in the league to play the 5 spot next to KP.
D'antoni is not running to get Melo on his roster again; that worked out real well for him last time.
You might be right but it would be different this time.
He has Harden now. I don't think Melo would interfere with the probable MVP. He's not going to play ISO ball because Harden gets the ball on every transition break
Plus if you're going to say Melo doesn't fit the system then i don't know how on God's green earth you are going to convince me that Ryan Anderson does.
alluding to a poor system fit, but the fact that Anthony lead to D'antoni tendering his resignation here. That type of stuff doesn't just get forgotten (see D'antoni's Vertical article a few months ago confirming the Anthony / Lin rift was very real and tore the locker room apart). I see no chance that D'antoni would want to bring Melo into the fold of his first taste of success in 10 years.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
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Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
More
Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
if it is true the knicks are engaging with teams that means they have permission
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
Melo for Crowder+ is not a power move to compete with the Cavs. It is an upgrade (and Im sure Melo haters will say it is a downgrade). Melo for Amir Johnson+ is such a power move.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
A move like this means the Celtics realistically think they can beat the Cavs. You're 100% correct about keeping Crowder. I actually really like the Amir Johnson angle. I'd hate to give up Willy because I think he might become a very good center one day, but if it means getting back the Nets pick you HAVE to do it.
The bigger problem is I have a hard time believing the Knicks will trade with their long time division rival.
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I think there is a dance that gives you some insight. Melo says a bunch of things in the Phil meeting (e.g. "you know I always wanted to play with one of my boys, LebRon, Dwayne or CP"). Phil reads the tea leaves, but nothing is guaranteed. Indeed, I think that's likely the real situation anyway -- if CLE or LAC reach a deal with Phil, Melo will still need to think about it.
alluding to a poor system fit, but the fact that Anthony lead to D'antoni tendering his resignation here. That type of stuff doesn't just get forgotten (see D'antoni's Vertical article a few months ago confirming the Anthony / Lin rift was very real and tore the locker room apart). I see no chance that D'antoni would want to bring Melo into the fold of his first taste of success in 10 years.
Unfortunately for D'antoni he's not the GM. If Morey had the opportunity to get Melo for 2-3 non-lottery picks he's going to go for the value play time and time again.
I love what the rockets are doing but you can't tell me they deserve to be in the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs convo. I'd have a hard time arguing that they're necessarily above the Clips, Jazz, Raptors and Grizzlies tier.
The next question is what are they going to do to get better? They have no assets to pry the Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butlers of the league. The one big name that they can get fo 70 cents on the dollar is Melo. If they aren't going to make any moves then what is the end goal? Run this team with Harden back every year and hope the improvements of Harrel, Dekker and Capella more than offset the eventual (and possibly near) decline of Harden, Gordon, Airza, Beverley and Anderson?
I'd have a hard time think dantoni has any say over Morey in these matters. I'm not sure if dantoni was brought in before or after FA, but Anderson was certainly not discussed with Dantoni that much if he was.
I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.
Although James and Anthony are incredibly close and have both expressed interest in playing together someday, sources say Cleveland is not prepared to surrender Love to get Anthony after the role Love played in helping the Cavaliers win the first championship in franchise history in June.
I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.
I am fine both ways. I am just saying that if we want to stop hearing the trade talk and we want to be less frazzled as fans winning would help all of that along lol
permission from Melo. What a joke. The Phil/Mills clown show is in full effect.
They are clown show because they talked to a team about a trade?
and who do you think told them that melo did not give them permission? my guess melo's people leaked that so it doesnt look like melo has given them permission
But I don't think Morey would ever take that something that petty into consideration when there are big names being sold for discount on the market. I just don't buy that.
the furthest thing from a defender of the Knicks but my guess is they "know" Melo would say yes to a trade to Cleveland.
Hasn't he already leaked that he'd be open to the clips or Cavs?
I hate wasting time arguing on what the he said/she said parts of any rumors being leaked in professional sports. We pretend that every text message or phone call is leaked and we know exactly who said what. That's drivel for sports writers to argue about and get reads and clicks.
Melo is going to do whatever presents him as a loyal player who is not going to leave when things get down. Whether it's true or not, I really don't care, I'm not sure why everyone here does.
RE: RE: according to the article they did NOT have
the furthest thing from a defender of the Knicks but my guess is they "know" Melo would say yes to a trade to Cleveland.
Hasn't he already leaked that he'd be open to the clips or Cavs?
I hate wasting time arguing on what the he said/she said parts of any rumors being leaked in professional sports. We pretend that every text message or phone call is leaked and we know exactly who said what. That's drivel for sports writers to argue about and get reads and clicks.
Melo is going to do whatever presents him as a loyal player who is not going to leave when things get down. Whether it's true or not, I really don't care, I'm not sure why everyone here does.
Rosen claimed Melo would agree to LAC and Cleveland then backtracked and said that was all his opinion. I've been pro-Melo in his feud with Jackson but I have to believe Melo would be totally fine with Jackson speaking to the Cavs.
feuded with Melo. And Kobe, when they played together. And Harden, when they played together. Lin is on his 6th team, 5 since/including the Knicks where he broke out. Lin has returned to a team exactly one time in his career (HOU), which signed him to a multi year deal and then used a #1 pick to get out from under his not crazy salary. I dont remember if the Rockets were clearing the cap for a big signing, but they didnt make one that offseason.
Why are we assuming that Melo was the problem? Did Pringles say it was the Lin-Melo situation, or make it specific to Melo being the problem?
feuded with Melo. And Kobe, when they played together. And Harden, when they played together. Lin is on his 6th team, 5 since/including the Knicks where he broke out. Lin has returned to a team exactly one time in his career (HOU), which signed him to a multi year deal and then used a #1 pick to get out from under his not crazy salary. I dont remember if the Rockets were clearing the cap for a big signing, but they didnt make one that offseason.
Why are we assuming that Melo was the problem? Did Pringles say it was the Lin-Melo situation, or make it specific to Melo being the problem?
Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
said knicks offered melo and jennings for love and fillers, cavs are nervous to bring in melo with 30 games left and not sure how it would work...
also said cavs feel bad trading love after he helped bring championship to cleveland..
my guess is, if cavs keepp struggling lebron will push cavs to do deal
I understand Kevin Love has played well this, but why do people keep acting like he was instrumental in winning the title? He was benched in the finals for Jefferson. He really didn't contribute too much and now the Warriors don't have Harrison Barnes to hide on defense.
said knicks offered melo and jennings for love and fillers, cavs are nervous to bring in melo with 30 games left and not sure how it would work...
also said cavs feel bad trading love after he helped bring championship to cleveland..
my guess is, if cavs keepp struggling lebron will push cavs to do deal
Interestingly, the 30 games issue and the loyalty issue are not "we prefer Love to Melo/Jennings as a matter of roster construction".
I thought they might end up too committed to Love. I think he was ready to bolt Cleveland for the west coast and LeBron had to get on a plane for the famous poolside recruitment trip. I wonder whether there was a rep to Love that he wasnt being resigned to preserve the asset for the Cavs, just to be traded in time. Although very long term no trade promises are pretty worthless.
Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
If MDA said this and didn't acknowledge that these players are totally different with completely different skill sets, then he's an idiot. Harden has the ball in his hands all of the time (career high usage)... why would he object to the offense at all?
Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
If MDA said this and didn't acknowledge that these players are totally different with completely different skill sets, then he's an idiot. Harden has the ball in his hands all of the time (career high usage)... why would he object to the offense at all?
I'm not sure the exact quote, Howard Beck sort of discussed it in the latest Zach Lowe podcast.
He had players for his system and then the Knicks traded all those players for Melo.
I don't think he'd object to having Melo again considering nothing can be done to displace Harden's ball dominance.
are on board with a Melo for Love swap, thinking it helps Cleveland match up with Golden State. Just discussing it on NBA Countdown.
I dont think it changes much. Melo isn't the type of player they need. They need someone who can take advantage of their size flaws (e.g. Demarcus Cousins, Davis, etc.) but I'm not quite sure how they get that player.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
Lopez is easily worth 2 #1s from a number of teams. Mozgov once garnered 2 #1s.
And what teams are those?
Mozgov shouldn't be a benchmark for any NBA transaction. It's a full step short of using "Bargnani garnered a first rounder". Maybe two steps. But nonetheless, my point stands.
Lopez will be turning 30 towards the end of next season. That automatically rules out any team that will be muddling in the lottery and bottom tier playoff teams that might end up in the lottery.
What big time playoff team needs a center? Brook would no doubt be a great fit under Pop but the Spurs aren't in the business of trading picks.
The Warriors? Don't see how the salary would work out given that they will need to max Steph.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
Lopez is easily worth 2 #1s from a number of teams. Mozgov once garnered 2 #1s.
And what teams are those?
Mozgov shouldn't be a benchmark for any NBA transaction. It's a full step short of using "Bargnani garnered a first rounder". Maybe two steps. But nonetheless, my point stands.
Lopez will be turning 30 towards the end of next season. That automatically rules out any team that will be muddling in the lottery and bottom tier playoff teams that might end up in the lottery.
What big time playoff team needs a center? Brook would no doubt be a great fit under Pop but the Spurs aren't in the business of trading picks.
The Warriors? Don't see how the salary would work out given that they will need to max Steph.
Well I wasnt speaking to fit, but non-lottery picks and especially picks in the 20s arent super valuable. We got one for THJR. I wouldnt take a pick at the end of the round for KOQ. The notion of talking about being worth 2 #1s as if #1s have a constant value doesnt make any sense.
But that brings back to my original point? What top team needs a center so much that they would even trade for Lopez in the first place?
And what mediocre team is willing to sacrifice 2 picks to secure Lopez asto guarantee they won't be in the lottery 3 years from now (which presumably would be when the distant 1st rounder the nets are seeking would be)?
Lopez is a good player but there's no team that's a Brook Lopez away from anything.
i respect melo for wanting to win here and i will root for him to get that championship if he agrees to thay trade but he is not winning here...it is just not going to work..
knicks need to go on a full rebuild, start selling off parts and play some of the young guys..
you can keep a guy like lee as a veteran presence if you want but you have to get one of these top pgs in the draft
I hope that whoever is willing to trade for Melo isn't actually
watching any of his games. The dude had 30 and 8, yet the last 7 minutes of the game was a lethal combination of lazy, stupid, and selfish. Maybe he was just tired, but damn.
Baker played 4 extremely unhelpful minutes.
I just want to get rid of everyone on the team who's older than 24 (outside of Kuz).
TANK!
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
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sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
The problem is you need to trade Dieng too, cause his contract is terrible too. I will never get why they signed him to an extension in the first place.
he is a nice role player, but not what the Twolves need.
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sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
from what i read twolves want a stop gap point guard to start until dunn is ready, apparently they dont like rubio,s fit..
noah could be the veteran presence they are lacking and with towns and dieng he doesnt have to play big minutes...
rubio and mohammed for noah and jennings and one of thos years 2nd? have to assume knicks have to send a draft pick to take on noah
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In comment 13337436 Keith said:
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sign me up. Noah for Rubio+. It better not be something ridiculous like O'Quinn and Jennings for Rubio. That would be a disaster.
Jennings and Noah make sense for both teams. Jennings doesn't seem like a guy that the Knicks would be pressing to retain. Plus if they are getting rid of Rubio they would need some sort of veteran presence to pair with Dunn. Noah fits an actual need for the Wolves, he is an upgrade over Dieng in rim protection, passing and rebounding.
The problem is you need to trade Dieng too, cause his contract is terrible too. I will never get why they signed him to an extension in the first place.
he is a nice role player, but not what the Twolves need.
Would they have to immediately? They aren't anywhere near the cap now and by the time they have to pay Wiggins and Lavine most of their big man contracts will be off the books. In other words, they will have $30M+ in cap space even if you assume Lavine and Wiggins are each getting max contracts.
Dont think theyd have trouble getting a team like the Lakers or the Nets to take on Dieng and maybe get a pick back in the process.
You have a link?
Link - ( New Window )
Not sure if they would want to take on more long term salary than they are giving away. They could just pay Shabazz slightly more than LT if that were the case.
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pekovic mohammed rubio for lance jennings and noah
Not sure if they would want to take on more long term salary than they are giving away. They could just pay Shabazz slightly more than LT if that were the case.
i was joking because i cant stand lance
I laughed. This "negotiation" would be a pillow fight.
Who says no?
the book is out on him to some degree.
Lee guarding PG is a death wish.
Melo is just feeding Indy back the ball on offense with lazy passes.
Fuck this team.
Lee guarding PG is a death wish.
Melo is just feeding Indy back the ball on offense with lazy passes.
Fuck this team.
Melo has done nothing wrong this game. His pass to KP was PERFECT. He didnt roll. Porz has been the worst player in the stadium tonight, and that includes fans.
This dude is not ready to play the 5 at all right now.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
No this game has been all KP.
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
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In comment 13337571 PhiPsi125 said:
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
Well he gets pushed around by guards in the post. He cant be healthy.
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
Right, all KP.
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In comment 13337571 PhiPsi125 said:
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
because a point guard can push him around
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In comment 13337574 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13337571 PhiPsi125 said:
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
I can't believe no one has instructed him to post up when all these point guards choose to defend him. How many times was Teague on him and he just shoots a mid range shot?
because a point guard can push him around
That's the insane part. How the hell are they pushing him out the paint???
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In comment 13337571 PhiPsi125 said:
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
Right, all KP.
how can you possibly be watching this game and say kp is not killing the team?
then stop forcing up shots and sit down if you are not healthy
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In comment 13337574 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13337571 PhiPsi125 said:
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It's not just KP, no matter how much you want it to be.
umm 3 bricks right at the basket, a travel, lazy defense and then another turnover
You are right, what was I thinking. KP is the sole reason why the Knicks suck tonight. It certainly can't be the complete lack of team defense, not paying attention on offense, nobody being able to score other than Melo and air balling free throws.
Right, all KP.
how can you possibly be watching this game and say kp is not killing the team?
I never said KP wasn't killing this team. But to say he's the sole reason they've sucked tonight is a farce. Yeah, he's off to a rough start offensively. But even if he makes half we are still losing we are still losing. And that with him altering at least three shots while on defense. This team is awful. None of them play any defense. They don't know who the hell to pass to or if someone will pass to them, and none can score outside of Melo so far.
Yes, KP hasn't been good. Neither has the rest of the team. It's not all on KP.
That floater Rose keeps shooting really sucks.
Horny rotations seem to change from week to week. I guess Noah coming back threw him off.
he really has good post moves for a young big man
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you push him down in the paint and make them pay.
he really has good post moves for a young big man
Training under the Gasol brothers will do that.
he said he added the floater when he first hirt his knee so he didnt always have to go to the rim
Part of it is probably because he's a rookie, and part of it is because he's coming from a league that plays far less games in a season, and he wasn't playing starter minutes there either.
They're managing his minutes cautiously like they did with KP because he's never had to play this many games before in a single year.
they are trying to flip him for rubio 😁
rose looks much better off the ball, letting jennings distribute
thats what you get for being in NJ!
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I've been stuck in place on the NJ transit for like 90 minutes in a spot that doesn't have enough signal to let me watch the game without freezing.
thats what you get for being in NJ!
Believe me I'm Tryna get out.
God, I'd love to trade him for those Nets picks.
I'd love to see Horny plant Melo on the bench in crunch time. Bye NTC.
to be fair he never gets a call and he gets fouled..
also that was a goaltend
+1???????
Yeah. Just not pretty to watch ...
kp fouled out..
Still, Billy with the double-double and +12 for the game.
i dont want to call him soft but he gets pushed off his spot to easily...
he had 3 boards tonight? that is god awful
There's been a small revival with it with guys like Draymond and Julius Randle (although he starts at the top of the key).
If that interests you I'd watch Nikola Jokic highlights. He runs the offense out of the high posts and drops passes in the bucket to cutters like he's tom Brady.
I thought jahlil Okafor would be able to do that but passing is not one of his strengths to say the least inthe NBA.
I agree he's been a physical player and that's now lacking, which is worrisome. He seemed in good spirits on the postgame and chalked it up to his still being rusty after the layoff. But if there is something wrong, I wouldn't have a problem with shutting him down, at least for long enough to let the achilles heal beyond any doubt.
His jump shot looks more than legit. Drained contested 3 pointers and his drives to the rim remind me of Derrick Rose with his ability to convert scoop shots in traffic.
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Lebron Unhappy - ( New Window )
His jump shot looks more than legit. Drained contested 3 pointers and his drives to the rim remind me of Derrick Rose with his ability to convert scoop shots in traffic. Link - ( New Window )
There was a piece last week suggesting Smith had the highest upside (lowest floor) of the big 3.
You know a trade is coming. I'm not sure how much the Korver trade helps. He hasn't looked good since he got there and at 36 years old, is clearly on the decline. Could have used that pick and Dunleavy's salary for something else. They are definitely playing with fire with no backup PG especially with Kyrie's injury history.
As a Knicks fan I hope a mega trade involving Melo is in the works but I know its unlikely. Regardless, I would be shopping Love like crazy. I think they could definitely find someone or a few players who fit a lot better than Kevin Love.
-Dedmon 10 and 8, 1 block 1 steal, 1 assist. Has been a really nice signing for SA. Really liked him as a backup big for the Knicks.
-Dejounte Murray is actually getting serious burn for Pop and has played very well recently. Any doubt he's the next Spurs "find"?
-Austin Rivers last 5 games 19 and 4 on 49% from the field, 40% from 3
Parker+ Giannis combined for 60 points, 15 rebounds 10 assists, 5 blocks on 22 of 36 in an upset of the Rockets
-Terrence Jones 36 and 11 as the Pelicans beat the Cavs without Anthony Davis
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You know a trade is coming. I'm not sure how much the Korver trade helps. He hasn't looked good since he got there and at 36 years old, is clearly on the decline. Could have used that pick and Dunleavy's salary for something else. They are definitely playing with fire with no backup PG especially with Kyrie's injury history.
As a Knicks fan I hope a mega trade involving Melo is in the works but I know its unlikely. Regardless, I would be shopping Love like crazy. I think they could definitely find someone or a few players who fit a lot better than Kevin Love.
I suspect they trade for someone like Deron Williams.
Brogs had a lousy shooting night but did have 9 assists off the bench.
And westbrook's 38 10 and 10 and game winner in Utah
And westbrook's 38 10 and 10 and game winner in Utah
I did miss Waiters... Westbrook/Harden are so ridiculous every game that I almost yawn looking at their line... unfairly sure lol
-Dedmon 10 and 8, 1 block 1 steal, 1 assist. Has been a really nice signing for SA. Really liked him as a backup big for the Knicks.
-Dejounte Murray is actually getting serious burn for Pop and has played very well recently. Any doubt he's the next Spurs "find"?
-Austin Rivers last 5 games 19 and 4 on 49% from the field, 40% from 3
Parker+ Giannis combined for 60 points, 15 rebounds 10 assists, 5 blocks on 22 of 36 in an upset of the Rockets
-Terrence Jones 36 and 11 as the Pelicans beat the Cavs without Anthony Davis
It is amazing that the Spurs keep finding these guys and developing them. I really hope they find out a way to beef up their roster to make a run at the Warriors.
Duncan, David Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Pop and Buford all in the HOF with Leonard another potential HOFer down the line with Alridge having a shot as well. Pretty nuts.
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
To be Manu is a hall of famer. Remember its the basketball HOF, not the NBA, so you have to account for his international success with Argentina.
I get that but how about making an all-nba first team at least one time?
Ginobli made the all-star team twice and all-nba third team twice. Looks like that's it. He was a very nice and very important cog for the Spurs but I'll pass on the HOF.
Tony Parker is a little bit closer but not quite there IMO. Never even made an all-nba first team. Made the second team 3X and made 6 all-star teams. It looks like Parker was never seriously in the league MVP mix either.
Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
I'd vote against Robert Horry and Steve Kerr (at least as a player) to make the HOF (even if Ginobli is much better, you get the point).
2 NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
EuroLeague champion (2001)
EuroLeague Finals MVP (2001)
All-EuroLeague First Team (2002)
Italian Cup MVP (2002)
2 Italian League MVP (2001, 2002)
2 Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004)
Diamond Konex Award (2010)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
2 FIBA Golds
Gold in Athens
Bronze in Beijing
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Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
You probably know more about this than me Dan, so if they are HOFers, then I guess that's that. Just seems crazy to me that a guy could never be in the NBA mix, never be a all-nba first teamer and be in the HOF even with the international stuff.
4 NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
NBA Finals MVP (2007)
6 NBA All-Star (2006, 2007, 2009, 20122014)
3 All-NBA Second Team (20122014)
All-NBA Third Team (2009)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2002)
NBA Skills Challenge champion (2012)
NBA Shooting Stars champion (2006)
FIBA EuroBasket MVP (2013)
2 FIBA EuroBasket Top Scorer (2011, 2013)
2 FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2013, 2014)
2 Euroscar Award (2007, 2013)
2 L'quipe Champion of Champions (2003, 2013)
Basketball reference puts Parker's HOF probability at 93.9%
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In comment 13337980 Metnut said:
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Not only are they HOFers they are LOCK HOFers. The basketball HOF takes into account international play and international impact.
You probably know more about this than me Dan, so if they are HOFers, then I guess that's that. Just seems crazy to me that a guy could never be in the NBA mix, never be a all-nba first teamer and be in the HOF even with the international stuff.
Basketball HOF just isn't treated in the same way the others are (I'll defer to others on the hockey HOF because I really don't know/pay much attention to it) but the basketball HOF puts a lot of emphasis on winning/impact.
Even if Ginobilis NBA statistics make him look like one of the inferior members of the Hall of Fame, his contributions to basketball as a whole have been immense.
Sarunas Marciulionis is in the Hall of Fame despite averaging only averaging 12.8 points per game in the NBA and never making an All Star team. His greatest accomplishments came while playing internationally, and if Marciulionis is Hall of Fame worthy, then certainly a guy like Ginobili is."
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Even if Ginobilis NBA statistics make him look like one of the inferior members of the Hall of Fame, his contributions to basketball as a whole have been immense.
Sarunas Marciulionis is in the Hall of Fame despite averaging only averaging 12.8 points per game in the NBA and never making an All Star team. His greatest accomplishments came while playing internationally, and if Marciulionis is Hall of Fame worthy, then certainly a guy like Ginobili is." Link - ( New Window )
Interesting link. Thanks.
Well, I learned something today. I saw your post and was like "no way" and then looked him up on Wiki and felt even stronger about my opinion. I guess it's just a different criteria than MLB or NFL.
So are guys like Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony (given Cuse title), Chris Bosh likely to get in too?
Targeting him for fantasy bball trades. Hope he goes back to sac or to the Lakers.
On resume alone D12 probably gets in. 8 All NBA teams (5 first team selections) and 3 DPOY awards.
doesnt lebron and rondo hate each other?
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Rondo supposedly is pushing for a buyout. You know where this ends up right? He goes to Cleveland and plays really well for them.
doesnt lebron and rondo hate each other?
No idea but he was over the top complimentary of him a few years back-
"You really cant, LeBron said. You just have to be in tune. Every time he has the ball, you always have to know that hes capable of making something happen, not only for himself, but for his teammates."
LeBron could have stopped there, but he continued with his scouting report.
For a point guard like Rondo, theres not many plays -- its crazy -- he doesnt get many plays called for him, but he makes all the right plays, if that makes any sense.
"Theres a lot of point guards -- like Derrick Rose -- he gets a lot of plays called for him, a lot of pick-and-roll sets, he comes off pindowns or floppy actions. But Rondo, hes either running pick-and-rolls or hes improvising on the break.
"You have to know that when he has the ball theres always a possibility or a chance that he can attack the rim, get under the rim, try to bring your defense into the paint and then spray it out to all those great shooters that they have.
"Hes always live. Thats what we call it."
the contracts on that team are god awful
You can make an argument that Manu was better than Dikembe, but I dont know why you'd be dismissive of DM. 4x defensive player of the year, 8 time all star, 3x all NBA 2nd/3rd teams. And we have no idea how old he really is. It's plausible to me that he came into the league in his late 20s (listed as a 25 year old rookie). Also a beloved personality who got around the league, i.e. spending time with the media in lots of cities.
DPOY seems to really help you get in (Zo 2x, Rodman 2x). There are other recent guys with much worse resumes than DM. Yao (though he was dominant), Chris Mullin, Dumars, Mitch Richmond. Better argument to me re Manu is that Mitch Richmond is in, vs. Dikembe.
1989-1990 Warriors won 37 games with 4 HOFers Mullin, Richmond, Marciulionis and Hardaway (eventually)
I don't think all star selections should be weighted that heavily since it's a popularity contest. Like how Kobe was garbage in his last season on a god awful team and got voted in and Tim Duncan was still a pretty good player on an amazing team and got left off. That's one example but there are lingering effects of legacy on the all star game (like how wade, rose and melo will be on the all star team this year).
But going back to my original point, a guy like STAT who at his peak was legitimately in a few MVP races and could've been considered a top 5 player on the Suns for a few years.
Was Dikembe ever a top 5 player in the league? Was he even ever a top 10 player?
I'm just saying if HoF in basketball was given the same criteria for HoF in other sports, you'd have guys like Mutumbo who'd more likely than not get left off and have guys like STAT who will never get serious consideration selected in.
The whole rings aspect of basketball compared to a sport like football is pretty ironic (outside the QB position of course). Ranking the top guys in basketball is all about the quantity of rings a guy has when in fact only 3-4 different teams get a ring in any given decade. Outside of the Jordans, Birds, Lebrons, Kobes, Duncans, etc. getting a ring is really a byproduct of who oh were drafted by, what teams had cap space when you became a FA, or how much (or little) money you took when you became a FA.
All that's to say a guy like Manu will be a no brainer selection (maybe even ignoring international play altogether) but at his peak was he really a better player than a guy like Demar Derozan (just someone off the top of my head, plenty of guys to plug in his place)?
I don't think all star selections should be weighted that heavily since it's a popularity contest. Like how Kobe was garbage in his last season on a god awful team and got voted in and Tim Duncan was still a pretty good player on an amazing team and got left off. That's one example but there are lingering effects of legacy on the all star game (like how wade, rose and melo will be on the all star team this year).
But going back to my original point, a guy like STAT who at his peak was legitimately in a few MVP races and could've been considered a top 5 player on the Suns for a few years.
Was Dikembe ever a top 5 player in the league? Was he even ever a top 10 player?
I'm just saying if HoF in basketball was given the same criteria for HoF in other sports, you'd have guys like Mutumbo who'd more likely than not get left off and have guys like STAT who will never get serious consideration selected in.
The whole rings aspect of basketball compared to a sport like football is pretty ironic (outside the QB position of course). Ranking the top guys in basketball is all about the quantity of rings a guy has when in fact only 3-4 different teams get a ring in any given decade. Outside of the Jordans, Birds, Lebrons, Kobes, Duncans, etc. getting a ring is really a byproduct of who oh were drafted by, what teams had cap space when you became a FA, or how much (or little) money you took when you became a FA.
All that's to say a guy like Manu will be a no brainer selection (maybe even ignoring international play altogether) but at his peak was he really a better player than a guy like Demar Derozan (just someone off the top of my head, plenty of guys to plug in his place)?
I'd admittedly bias because I am big fan of his, but you cannot easily plug in a player to replace Manu. In my eyes he is truly a great player that brings so much to helping you win. Clutch, good defender, great passer, great shooter...all around a very unique and great player.
I also think Tony Parker is being undersold a little. He may not have been a CP3 level defender, but he was still always solid. Also was in the MVP discussion a few times and was definitely the best point guard in the game at times. The stats just dont reflect it for these guys because they spread the ball around so much.
2 locks for the Hall of Fame.
It's a credit to Pop, not arguing that. But playing with one of the 10 best players of all time and greatest coach of all time certainly makes things easier. I don't think Wall would be some scrub in SA. But Wall will be looked down upon when it comes down to these things simply because he was taken by a franchise that screws things up. Wall hasn't played with a player who was considered top 30 at any given time in the NBA (maybe Beal this year?) but Parker and Manu played with an arguably top 10 ever.
My overall point is there are players who were top 5-10 overall players in the league that won't get any consideration due to being on inept teams, but Parker and Ginobili are locks and were arguably never top 10 players in the NBA ever.
Was this player ever considered a top 10 player in the league? If so, how many times?
Was this player ever considered a top 5 player in the league? If so, how many times?
Was this player ever considered in the MVP race? If so how many times?
And then judge accordingly to their peers.
Yeah and I acknowledged that. But I think both players would've got voted in simply based on NBA accolades alone. My point was that I think rings are unfairly used to judge secondary and tertiary "stars".
Yeah I'm for this too. My point was not to knock guys like Parker and Manu out but more to say if they are going to get in, why not push in guys like STAT, who were dominant but didn't have team/international/college success as well.
The fact that self-important baseball writers have to keep some upstanding tradition of leaving first time players out of the HoF pisses me off.
Let Arod and Papi and Pete Rose and Bonds all in as a "fuck you" .
They showed it on the replay and said the refs missed it. Happened a few minutes after the play when they came back from a commercial.
Henangomez is also on pace to become just third qualified rookie in the last 30 years to average at least 15 points & 13 rebs per-36 minutes The other two rookies to average 15 points and 12 rebounds per-36 minutes were Kevin Love and Shaq
Defensively if he's closer to Pau than Enes Kanter then he's gonna be one hell of a player.
Father time made Al Jefferson look old and slow.
Willy is VERY good at moving to the basket. Not just PnR -- he finds good lines to take that set him up for passes and easy buckets. If it keeps up in the coming years he will cause a lot of havoc to opposing defensive schemes. All well and good to have a plan until a 6'11 250 pounder is slicing you up in the paint. If he gets better defensively (and there are reasons to think he can, though he'll never be great), he's a 33 mpg center in this league. And if not, there is still a role for a guy who can score and rebound like that.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
Well then he can look in the mirror because he's the GM. He's the one who boasted after they won last year that "they said J.R. was a throw-in". This is the team HE wanted. Now you're gonna complain?
That being said... even if he's right, you don't say that in a rant to the media, and then to say they're top heavy? What does that say to the rest of the team? Great leadership skills right there.
Im not sure how much he really is their GM. I think he dictated the Wiggins trade. But is he making these little draft pick moves? I dont think so. Is he deciding who the picks are? No. I think he leans on ownership to resign guys, but suspect he's a lot less involved in trades.
Cavs are shockingly bad at picking up talent. They are not good at depth drafting, and they are too quick to trade away anyone young.
I think TT could be a double double machine on a lesser team. Ultimate role player and invaluable to thr cavs rostr.
How far ahead can you trade first round picks? Ideally I'd want a 2022 or even 2024 first rounder.
Boy would that be a good laugh when people look at why the Knicks are picking in the top 10 for a trade 7 years ago.
For all his unicorn skills, its time to back off on proclaiming Porzingis a definite future superstar. Nothing is guaranteed even if his popularity still is growing. The NBA announced Tuesday, citing data from the NBA Store, he is seventh in jersey sales.
Porzingis, with his slight build, hit a rookie wall last season and is in a sophomore swoon. His shooting percentage has dropped to 44.9 percent. Carmelo Anthony was right during training camp that expectations were too high on a 21-year-old European in his second season still learning the NBA game when to pass, how to rebound, how to post up.
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for,Cedi Osman, Liggins and the Cavs 2020 1st, you are welcome Lebron.
How far ahead can you trade first round picks? Ideally I'd want a 2022 or even 2024 first rounder.
Boy would that be a good laugh when people look at why the Knicks are picking in the top 10 for a trade 7 years ago.
I don't know the official rule but there are owed picks up through 2023 at this point.
As for KP, his body needs a lot of development. Hopefully he gets there, but there is a chance it takes a while, or he doesnt/cant handle a lot more weight. I still think he doesnt sniff his peak until he's on his next contract.
As for KP, his body needs a lot of development. Hopefully he gets there, but there is a chance it takes a while, or he doesnt/cant handle a lot more weight. I still think he doesnt sniff his peak until he's on his next contract.
TT wouldn't be a bad next to KP. But his role on the Cavs is as good as it can get for him. His contract in itself isn't hurting the Cavs and if the Cavs had any intriguing assets his contract would be beneficial because they won't be able to add any non-minimum players. They need to trade love if they're looking for a shakeup.
As for what TT would look like on a lesser team I think you end up with Taj Gibson sans a jump shot.
Yep, that last part is the key - Love is much easier to trade than Melo. Ideally you'd just do a three-teamer, but if that's too complicated right now just pull the trigger on this one.
Love for Melo is a lateral move in context for how the Cavs would play against GS.
I think melo can help a bunch of playoff teams get better but the Cavs are not one. He wouldn't last guarding Draymond or have Draymond guard him.
For as many teams
Lost in all the hype/letdown of Aaron Gordon is that he is a stud defensive player first, second and third. Moving from PF to SF for sure caused him to struggle but at least Towns can space the floor unlike Biyombo. I think Towns and lavine by themselves can carry the offensive load in 1-2 years and Towns, Dunn, Gordon and Ibaka would be one hell of a defensive/rebounding corps.
Love will not return 2 or 3 starters if one of them is as good as Melo. Cleveland is also boxed in by what contracts they have to ship back -- you cant give $40 million in contracts for Love without taking back something from the Cavs you probably dont want (Shump). And if you're giving a Melo type player and someone else who fits under the cap but is a legit starter, that second player is probably really valuable.
Lost in all the hype/letdown of Aaron Gordon is that he is a stud defensive player first, second and third. Moving from PF to SF for sure caused him to struggle but at least Towns can space the floor unlike Biyombo. I think Towns and lavine by themselves can carry the offensive load in 1-2 years and Towns, Dunn, Gordon and Ibaka would be one hell of a defensive/rebounding corps.
I would not. I would bet on the upside of Wiggins. I think there is a good chance he puts it together and is a guy who can be at least a 3rd best player on a contending team. Less confidence in the ORL guys. I might think about it harder if Ibaka had term.
How gracious of us
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In comment 13338502 DanMetroMan said:
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for,Cedi Osman, Liggins and the Cavs 2020 1st, you are welcome Lebron.
How far ahead can you trade first round picks? Ideally I'd want a 2022 or even 2024 first rounder.
Boy would that be a good laugh when people look at why the Knicks are picking in the top 10 for a trade 7 years ago.
I don't know the official rule but there are owed picks up through 2023 at this point.
I believe the official rule is you can trade picks up to 7 years out
They just gave up 70 points in the first half to the no Davis pelicans. What a fcking baby bitch.
They just gave up 70 points in the first half to the no Davis pelicans. What a fcking baby bitch.
If you didnt censor yourself there I would've had to report you to the fcking mods.
You move Horford to the 5 and adding love would help the rebounding issue. But it would also exacerbate their defensive issues.
I wouldn't worry about finding suitors for Love. He's always been tied to the Lakers, maybe you can get Randle/Clarkson for him. Maybe D-lo? That may be a stretch. Not enticing but certainly more than you'd get for Melo.
Denver is another interesting spot. They have assets galore, maybe you can pry some combo of Harris, Murray, Beasley, nurkic and picks. Have been really turned off by Mudiay but if he was a throw in I'd be intrigued.
I think the Raptors would give you the reported Milsap haul. Not super intriguing but Ross, Patterson and picks. Since Love is 4 years younger he could command more from them. Maybe Joseph and Powell? Not the best return but a few players to place around KP and Willy.
The Sixers? This is a bit out of the ballpark but if they're already going to be a playoff team then why not go all in for Love. He'd give them about 4 prime years and maybe a few more useful ones after that. Some combo of Okafor, Noel, saric, Stauskas and Holmes would be very enticing (obviously they wouldn't give more than 2-3 of those guys but I'd take say saric and noel). Maybe a pipe dream, they can certainly just let things grow organically and still be well off. Not suggesting saric is going to be some Love-caliber type player but if he's even a Gallo-type then they're better off keeping him as he's only 21 or 22.
The obvious solution for either would be a 3 way trade with Boston.
I think they'd prefer Jennings and his passing ability, which is an easy throw in with Melo.
But which have pieces that would interest the Knicks.
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
my personal opinion cavs do not need melo
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
blake should talk to amare about how he adapted his game and how he tried not be just dunking on people..
i do think griffin has done a good job adding to his game
Who says no other than Melo?
Halfway through the season, that question has finally been answered (although we won't know whether or not it was the right decision for quite some time). The sorry excuse for a scouting report that you just read has actually been pretty accurate -- Plumlee really doesn't do much of anything on offense. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. But the energy, hustle, and commitment he's known for has translated surprisingly well, particularly on defense, reaching its apex during last Wednesday's victory in Boston.
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Totally agree here. It's all about beating the Warriors in the finals.
I think Melo on the Raptors does improve them dramatically. If Jackson is going to trade Carmelo, he needs to create a few options to get some leverage/ bargaining going. If I'm the Cavs/ Lebron, would you rather swap Love for Melo/ Jennings and maybe a guard from Boston ( Smart?) or see Melo go to the Raptors.
Who says no other than Melo?
Probably Philly. That's a lot to give up for Melo.
i read it as they need bench help, guys who have started in the nba before who dont mind coming off the bench...
he mentioend guys like dahntay jones, that tells me end of the bench
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Noel, Covington, and Phillys 1st.
Who says no other than Melo?
Probably Philly. That's a lot to give up for Melo.
They are going to have to get rid of guys eventually.... if they did that trade...
Simmons/McConnell/Rodriguez
Lee/Stauskas/Henderson
Melo
Illysova/Saric
Embiid/Okafor/Holmes
Plus they have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year.
-Austin Rivers 20, 2 and 3. I like to mock him but he's played very well recently.
-Noel 19 points 8 boards 5 assists 2 steals 3 blocks. The Sixers would be crazy to give him away for anything less than a solid return pending $$ or not. If he ends up somewhere like Cleveland for garbage I'm going to be furious.
-Saric 16 and 8, 2 assists, 1 steal. He's been in a shooting slump but I like what I've seen.
-John Wall is almost underrated at this point. This season 23 and 10 with 5 boards and 2 steals
-Mirotic stinks. 38% from the field, 30% from 3.
-Jokic 23 and 11 with 6 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks... quite a talent
-Tyson Chandler 22 and 17, really having a nice season
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In comment 13338824 dep026 said:
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Noel, Covington, and Phillys 1st.
Who says no other than Melo?
Probably Philly. That's a lot to give up for Melo.
They are going to have to get rid of guys eventually.... if they did that trade...
Simmons/McConnell/Rodriguez
Lee/Stauskas/Henderson
Melo
Illysova/Saric
Embiid/Okafor/Holmes
Plus they have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year.
I think Okafor will be the guy they want to get rid of. Their defense is way to good with Noel and Embiid out there together and they don't even have guards that can defend for shit yet.
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In comment 13338863 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 13338824 dep026 said:
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Noel, Covington, and Phillys 1st.
Who says no other than Melo?
Probably Philly. That's a lot to give up for Melo.
They are going to have to get rid of guys eventually.... if they did that trade...
Simmons/McConnell/Rodriguez
Lee/Stauskas/Henderson
Melo
Illysova/Saric
Embiid/Okafor/Holmes
Plus they have the right to swap picks with the Kings this year.
I think Okafor will be the guy they want to get rid of. Their defense is way to good with Noel and Embiid out there together and they don't even have guards that can defend for shit yet.
they do not play embiid and noel together and if they do it is for 1 or 2 minutes, brett brown doesnt think it works
their defense is middle of the pack.
the front office knows that.
maybe if Lebron became good at defense again and shumpert stopped thinking he was an offensive player... they might be better off.
its on the players and coach--- the FO put a championship squad in place
I'm not sure when they say they are going to play him at PG that means they won't be playing 2 other guards out there. He's not going to be able to defend 1s at all and I'm not sure you'd want him wasting his energy doing so either.
their defense is middle of the pack.
the front office knows that.
maybe if Lebron became good at defense again and shumpert stopped thinking he was an offensive player... they might be better off.
its on the players and coach--- the FO put a championship squad in place
shumpert is an overrated defender, he had some nice defense 1 on 1 but off the ball he is horrible
i agree
I think they dont like his attitude, he doesnt like how he was handled, and he will need to get paid this offseason as a RFA in a market where at least half the league will probably have room to offer a Noah-type contract after guys start opting out (and many teams will be facing the cap floor).
"Now Hernangomez actually 7 feet despite being listed at 6-foot-11 has three straight overpowering games under his belt. Hornacek seems ready to see beyond the fact hes just a second-round draft pick and play him more than the 13 minutes per night hes been averaging, though still not ready to start him.
Were looking for consistency, Hornacek said, doing it every single game. Willy has proven that. Three games in a row hes gotten in there and performed with that energy and what were asking him to do with the hard rolling.
"
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"We all know that LeBron would love to have Carmelo on his side and the feeling is mutual....In a perfect world, Anthony would be a great sixth man for the Cavs, but at his cap number approximately $27 million when you throw in his trade kicker its nearly impossible for that trade to happen."
"Toronto doesnt have much to offer, while Doc Rivers would love to add Carmelo to his win-now team. According to a source, the Clippers are unwilling trade anyone of significance."
Jalen Rose said that LeBrons comments about "needing a playmaker" is actually about getting Carmelo Anthony for Kevin Love.
Stephen A. Smith believes Knicks would be willing to take Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony (ESPN)
Sources have told me Cavs have no interest in Melo and wouldn't trade Love for him. The Melo to CLE thing ain't happening.- Ryan Russillo Twitter
I dont think Willy should start. I think he should see 20+ mpg, and we should trade KOQ.
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I think Noel is the guy you want to keep. He'll maintain the backbone of a good defense when Embiid is on the bench or if he gets hurt.
I think they dont like his attitude, he doesnt like how he was handled, and he will need to get paid this offseason as a RFA in a market where at least half the league will probably have room to offer a Noah-type contract after guys start opting out (and many teams will be facing the cap floor).
He's going to get more than Noah no doubt. It'll be interesting to see. They'll be able to get much, much more for Noel than for Okafor. But they also don't really have to pay anyone right now. And if the sixers are winning and Noel is getting 25 minutes a game even if he's not starting does that change anything for him? I don't think they'll have any shortage of suitors for him even if he gets a pretty decent sized contract.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
Noel has to go if he or Embiid cant play some 4.
I think he can but shouldnt, which appears to be what his coach thinks too.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
Noel has to go if he or Embiid cant play some 4.
I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
They played Towns a little at the 4 this year, massive failure. Let players who dominate, dominate at the position thye are comfortable with.
What happens when they decide Embiid is good to go next season and he plays 75 games at 32 mpg? That leaves 18.7 mpg at center over 82 games, and no team plays only 2 centers (plus they may not get a fair offer for Okafor, who is a depressed asset).
Noel has to go if he or Embiid cant play some 4.
Brett Brown does not do it, when all 3 are healthy okafor has sat..
he tried it at the beginning of the season but didnt like it
Porzingis' elbow has reportedly swollen to the size of a golf ball, but it doesn't sound like he's expecting the injury to force him to spend any time on the sidelines, simply stating, "it's been like that for a while."
The McCollum/Noel trade would certainly be interesting but I think Portland would overrate CJ too much and I'm not sure the two teams would be able to get it worked out. I think they'd ask for too many picks from philly in addition but if they don't that's a perfect trade partner.
If they get rid of Noel and Okaforl he'd be on the right team.
Even if they trade Noel I'm not sure that necessarily means they'd have to keep Okafor
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underrated sixer is Holmes. Big kid, decent outside shot, blocks shots. He's just on the wrong team.
If they get rid of Noel and Okaforl he'd be on the right team.
Even if they trade Noel I'm not sure that necessarily means they'd have to keep Okafor
I've been pretty impressed with him from what I've seen.
Okafor's issues are more about desire IMO. Don't think staying in college would have changed that.
Winslow, maybe, but he still may not have developed much of an offensive game. He could score just fine in college because, at that level, he could physically overpower most of the wings he played against. He did just fine without refined skills. At the NBA level, he's not big enough to play that bullyball style against NBA 3s and he doesn't have the skill to score on NBA 2s. He's a tweener, and unless he develops at least an average jump shot he's going nowhere.
I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
Attitude issues aside (I cant assess), Im a Noel fan. I think he's a real difference maker on D. On offense, I think he's be a really good pick and role big. It is tough to judge him since he is a guy who needs a guard to set him up, and Philly has had the worst offensive guard play I've ever seen for his career. And unlike a Tyson Chandler type (who shoots 36% at 3-10 feet), Noel has a burgeoning jumper -- 60% this year from 3-10, 54% from 16-<3 this season (notably on just 11 and 15 attempts, respectively). There is a chance he could end up with a somewhat workable shot.
But I wouldnt do that trade if Im POR. In the modern NBA, with 3s playing so much 4, bigs are gettable. You may have to pay them $$. But they hit free agency. Guards dont.
Simmons will be the point guard in a few weeks.
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i doubt they would do it but would you do jennings and a pick for okafor?
Simmons will be the point guard in a few weeks.
yeah true,send them vujacic instead
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I think people overrate Noel's ability. He is a good defneder, limited offensively. I think he is a more athletic tristan thompson. Guys like him get overpaid and hurt your team. They HAVE to trade him since he is value. Think of a western confewrence team who could use a defensive big.... oh, hello Portland. Would you like Noel for McCullom as a start of a trade effort?
Attitude issues aside (I cant assess), Im a Noel fan. I think he's a real difference maker on D. On offense, I think he's be a really good pick and role big. It is tough to judge him since he is a guy who needs a guard to set him up, and Philly has had the worst offensive guard play I've ever seen for his career. And unlike a Tyson Chandler type (who shoots 36% at 3-10 feet), Noel has a burgeoning jumper -- 60% this year from 3-10, 54% from 16-<3 this season (notably on just 11 and 15 attempts, respectively). There is a chance he could end up with a somewhat workable shot.
But I wouldnt do that trade if Im POR. In the modern NBA, with 3s playing so much 4, bigs are gettable. You may have to pay them $$. But they hit free agency. Guards dont.
Tough to argue that. I just would hate Philly to do what Minny did with Dieng. Now I think Noel is better than Dieng, but to over dedicate resources can be bad as well.
If Minny had to do it over again, you wonder if they would have Dieng that contract this year. 4 for 64 seems like a bad move.
Then you have his mental issues. I dont think it is laziness. I think his BB mind fires slowly. He's mentally built to be a great 1990s player -- one on one post battles. In the 2010s movement based NBA he's kind of fucked. He doesnt see plays fast enough. So on offense it doesnt hurt him badly because he can do his ISO thing and spot kick outs. On defense they just run past him though. Still, he can score, and if he gets his rebounding up (I think it's possible), he can be fine. Just not a franchise player in all likelihood unless he absolutely maximizes his scoring potential (which I think goes above 25 ppg).
Blake is a perfect guy to pair with KP, especially as KP gets strong enough to defender the 5. On the other hand, Blake seems like he's always dinged up, and the last ~20 years have been littered with hyper athletic 4s whose games fall apart once the athleticism declines as injuries or age set in. That player type doesnt necessarily age well.
While I agree that Blake would fit nicely with KP and it would be a homerun trade the for Knicks, it's not allowed under the CBA. Bobby Marks explained that one team cannot have 2 designated rookie max players acquired in a trade( Derrick Rose being the other). I'm sure there is some sort of work around, but just an interesting note.
so if they wanted to re sign both guys they would sign one with early bird rights and the other with rookie max...
Not sure how/if the salary would work but even this year's Brooklyn pick alone would be a great return for 'Melo given his current value IMO.
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i doubt they would do it but would you do jennings and a pick for okafor?
Simmons will be the point guard in a few weeks.
Simmons will be point guard. They need a shooting guard who can defense quick point guards.
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he claims boston is wprking to try and put a package together for melo and they want to get it done
Not sure how/if the salary would work but even this year's Brooklyn pick alone would be a great return for 'Melo given his current value IMO.
crowder amir jerebko works money wise..
add in the pick and i will drive melo to airport
Short of getting Harden, Westbrook, Davis, cousins or Towns or moving the Spurs to Pittsburgh I don't think there's a player any EC team can get to put them over Cleveland.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
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of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How can cleveland take on Rose's salary?
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of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How would the Cavs get rose unless they part with shump, jr or TT?
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
add crowder done deal no crowder no..
Willy could be your starting center for the next 10 years
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
you would hope if they truly are talking that phil already asked melo if boston is ok
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
MIN would likely want some veteran PG in return so Dunn isn't relied on too much. It would probably lead to something like Jennings, Noah and Lee for Rubio, Dieng and Shabazz
Brooklyn's 2018 first rounder
Clippers 2019 first rounder
Memphis 2019 first rounder
I know everyone wants this year nets pick, but I think we'd be good with:
Jerebko, Amir Johnson, Zeller, James Young, nets 2019 first, clippers 2019 first for Melo and O'quinn
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Even if it's not the #1 the difference between the #1 and #3 pick seems negligible (at least now, from whatever I can tell). Assuming we are getting Crowder and if not I'd want some combo of their recent 1st round picks or future Celtics-owned picks.
Maybe something like Melo for Parsons, Baldwin, Martin and a future 1st? Not super enticing but you get some young guys.
Rockets? Yeah, I know, I know. He won't fit the Dantoni system but is Ryan Anderson really fitting it all that well?
And as much as the rockets have been a huge surprise and I think Morey should win exec of the year, Harden MVP and Dantoni COY, they're still a far cry away from really being a contender. They're much closer to Utah, LAC (with CP3), and Memphis than they are to Cleveland, GS or SA. They have plenty of assets I love. Id take Dekker and Anderson if that's what it came to. Maybe you can pry Harrell and a pick off them too and toss them KOQ, Kuz and Holiday if need be.
Melo and Brandon Jennings to Cleveland, Love to Boston, A. Johnson, picks and various cap filler from Boston and Cleveland to NY.
Boston does it because they would have a starting 5 to at least give a go to anyone in the East. Cleveland may do it because LeBron wants to do it- and gets Jennings to reduce the load on Irving and LeBron handling the ball. The Knicks would likely do it to start over, so long as they get at least on- likely 2 of those probable top 5 picks in the future from Boston.
Will it happen? I doubt it because Cleveland might not want to help a rival. But, if LeBron leans on ownership enough, it could happen.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
Knowing what you now know, where does Willy go in the 2016 draft? He's clearly into the lottery, and maybe mid-lottery.
Rockets get: Melo, KOQ, Lee, Holiday and Kuz
Knicks do it because they're are diving straight for a rebuild. I think Dekker has legit potential to be an 18-20 ppg scorer in the league (Jon where are you, forgive me for frank bashing?). Harrel looks like a bigger and stronger Kenny Faried. Just a monster around the rim.
Rockets do it because aside from getting rid of some young players, they convert a lot of dead weight into useful players. KOQ more or less will match the production of Harrel in the short term. Holiday/Kuz will essentially do the same for Dekker. They also get Lee who would be a great shooter off the bench. Overall, they replace Anderson with Melo and improve their bench in the process.
Also, that's a pure 4 and a big 3 coming back. Pushes up against our depth, which is at the 4/5. I'd love to turn Melo into a guard prospect, then add another 1-2-3 in the draft with our pick.
I was down on NO for taking Hield but if he's going to be a 12-15 ppg starter who shoots 40% from 3 and plays solid defense he might've been one of the better value picks in the draft (maybe a peak Courtney Lee from his rockets days?). Maybe a tie between Willy and Hield.
I don't think anyone was expecting Bender to be some future superstar. By even a lot of scout's accounts he was more of a guy who would be a plus starter given the way the NBA was transitioning (a 12 and 8 guy who gives you spacing at the 4 or 5). Id take Willy over him now.
Not knocking Murray, but I thought before the draft the nuggets were drafted a 6th man. Given how bad this draft looked, I think that was a positive and not a bad pick. I was down on his long term future of being a starter on a good team. But given his atrocious defense, horrible shot selection, and inability to play PG, I would take Willy over Murray.
I've stated my case for Ingram a few days ago, I'd still take him over Willy but it would be close.
I'd also still take brown. If he can get his jump shot down I think he's a bigger, more athletic Jae Crowder.
Dunn has struggled but his two way potential at PG will leave him as a pretty good starter down the line, id give the edge to Dunn.
Chriss is interesting. That would be a tough call. Still don't know what Chriss is going to be. His athleticism/shooting makes him one of the highest upside guys behind Simmons, Ingram and brown. But his floor is much lower than Willys.
Dont think I have to argue much for Willy over maker/sabonis.
Brogdon is another close call. No real flaws, but he's not going to be some superstar. He's a perfect PG if you have 2-3 studs at the other spots. So I'd say Willy given his age advantage. But I wouldn't argue the other way.
Maybe not too 5 but I think Willy would be in the 6-9 range.
You might be right but it would be different this time.
He has Harden now. I don't think Melo would interfere with the probable MVP. He's not going to play ISO ball because Harden gets the ball on every transition break
Plus if you're going to say Melo doesn't fit the system then i don't know how on God's green earth you are going to convince me that Ryan Anderson does.
Rubio/Baker
Muhammad/Hezonja
Dekker
KP/Harrel
Willy/Dieng/Plumlee
And then picks from the Rockets and then sell of Vucevic for whatever picks he's worth on the open market.
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Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
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Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
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Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
if it is true the knicks are engaging with teams that means they have permission
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
A move like this means the Celtics realistically think they can beat the Cavs. You're 100% correct about keeping Crowder. I actually really like the Amir Johnson angle. I'd hate to give up Willy because I think he might become a very good center one day, but if it means getting back the Nets pick you HAVE to do it.
The bigger problem is I have a hard time believing the Knicks will trade with their long time division rival.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
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I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I think there is a dance that gives you some insight. Melo says a bunch of things in the Phil meeting (e.g. "you know I always wanted to play with one of my boys, LebRon, Dwayne or CP"). Phil reads the tea leaves, but nothing is guaranteed. Indeed, I think that's likely the real situation anyway -- if CLE or LAC reach a deal with Phil, Melo will still need to think about it.
Unfortunately for D'antoni he's not the GM. If Morey had the opportunity to get Melo for 2-3 non-lottery picks he's going to go for the value play time and time again.
I love what the rockets are doing but you can't tell me they deserve to be in the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs convo. I'd have a hard time arguing that they're necessarily above the Clips, Jazz, Raptors and Grizzlies tier.
The next question is what are they going to do to get better? They have no assets to pry the Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butlers of the league. The one big name that they can get fo 70 cents on the dollar is Melo. If they aren't going to make any moves then what is the end goal? Run this team with Harden back every year and hope the improvements of Harrel, Dekker and Capella more than offset the eventual (and possibly near) decline of Harden, Gordon, Airza, Beverley and Anderson?
I'd have a hard time think dantoni has any say over Morey in these matters. I'm not sure if dantoni was brought in before or after FA, but Anderson was certainly not discussed with Dantoni that much if he was.
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I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.
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He's averaging 18 ppg per 36 (of course inflated due to Rockets style). He's shouting 65% on FTs and is one hell of a monster in the PnR game.
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In comment 13339603 bceagle05 said:
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I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.
I am fine both ways. I am just saying that if we want to stop hearing the trade talk and we want to be less frazzled as fans winning would help all of that along lol
I am not a fan of Phil or Mills, but they don't need permission from Melo to talk to a team. Just to trade him.
They are clown show because they talked to a team about a trade?
and who do you think told them that melo did not give them permission? my guess melo's people leaked that so it doesnt look like melo has given them permission
Hasn't he already leaked that he'd be open to the clips or Cavs?
I hate wasting time arguing on what the he said/she said parts of any rumors being leaked in professional sports. We pretend that every text message or phone call is leaked and we know exactly who said what. That's drivel for sports writers to argue about and get reads and clicks.
Melo is going to do whatever presents him as a loyal player who is not going to leave when things get down. Whether it's true or not, I really don't care, I'm not sure why everyone here does.
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permission from Melo. What a joke. The Phil/Mills clown show is in full effect.
I am not a fan of Phil or Mills, but they don't need permission from Melo to talk to a team. Just to trade him.
this becoming public is not good on several levels. Typical botch job from these two.
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In comment 13339616 Enzo said:
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permission from Melo. What a joke. The Phil/Mills clown show is in full effect.
I am not a fan of Phil or Mills, but they don't need permission from Melo to talk to a team. Just to trade him.
this becoming public is not good on several levels. Typical botch job from these two.
rrally? how many of phils trades were leaked to the media before he did them?
if this is true my guess it didnt come from phils side
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the furthest thing from a defender of the Knicks but my guess is they "know" Melo would say yes to a trade to Cleveland.
Hasn't he already leaked that he'd be open to the clips or Cavs?
I hate wasting time arguing on what the he said/she said parts of any rumors being leaked in professional sports. We pretend that every text message or phone call is leaked and we know exactly who said what. That's drivel for sports writers to argue about and get reads and clicks.
Melo is going to do whatever presents him as a loyal player who is not going to leave when things get down. Whether it's true or not, I really don't care, I'm not sure why everyone here does.
Rosen claimed Melo would agree to LAC and Cleveland then backtracked and said that was all his opinion. I've been pro-Melo in his feud with Jackson but I have to believe Melo would be totally fine with Jackson speaking to the Cavs.
Why are we assuming that Melo was the problem? Did Pringles say it was the Lin-Melo situation, or make it specific to Melo being the problem?
Why are we assuming that Melo was the problem? Did Pringles say it was the Lin-Melo situation, or make it specific to Melo being the problem?
Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
also said cavs feel bad trading love after he helped bring championship to cleveland..
my guess is, if cavs keepp struggling lebron will push cavs to do deal
also said cavs feel bad trading love after he helped bring championship to cleveland..
my guess is, if cavs keepp struggling lebron will push cavs to do deal
I understand Kevin Love has played well this, but why do people keep acting like he was instrumental in winning the title? He was benched in the finals for Jefferson. He really didn't contribute too much and now the Warriors don't have Harrison Barnes to hide on defense.
lebron goes on a rant..
it leaks cavs are not interested in melo..
caa leaks to stephen a that boston is working on a package for melo to put pressure on on cavs...
it now looks like knicks shopping melo, melo now has his out...
cavs leak no deal for love to make knicks to anti up a little bit more...
this is melo leaving demver playong nets vs knicks
also said cavs feel bad trading love after he helped bring championship to cleveland..
my guess is, if cavs keepp struggling lebron will push cavs to do deal
Interestingly, the 30 games issue and the loyalty issue are not "we prefer Love to Melo/Jennings as a matter of roster construction".
I thought they might end up too committed to Love. I think he was ready to bolt Cleveland for the west coast and LeBron had to get on a plane for the famous poolside recruitment trip. I wonder whether there was a rep to Love that he wasnt being resigned to preserve the asset for the Cavs, just to be traded in time. Although very long term no trade promises are pretty worthless.
Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
If MDA said this and didn't acknowledge that these players are totally different with completely different skill sets, then he's an idiot. Harden has the ball in his hands all of the time (career high usage)... why would he object to the offense at all?
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Dantoni has alluded to how Harden has been more willing to adapt to his PnR ideals unlike Melo and Kobe who both reverted back to ISO ball.
If Melo went to Houston now, first of all he would fullly realize he'd be playing without the ball in his hands (just like he would with his buddies CP3 and lebron) and second of all, he'd be a straight up upgrade over Anderson. I don't think Melo would have too many qualms if Harden was feeding him open corner 3s on a consistent basis.
If MDA said this and didn't acknowledge that these players are totally different with completely different skill sets, then he's an idiot. Harden has the ball in his hands all of the time (career high usage)... why would he object to the offense at all?
I'm not sure the exact quote, Howard Beck sort of discussed it in the latest Zach Lowe podcast.
He had players for his system and then the Knicks traded all those players for Melo.
I don't think he'd object to having Melo again considering nothing can be done to displace Harden's ball dominance.
I'm not sure the exact quote, Howard Beck sort of discussed it in the latest Zach Lowe podcast.
He had players for his system and then the Knicks traded all those players for Melo.
I don't think he'd object to having Melo again considering nothing can be done to displace Harden's ball dominance.
Billups was a horrendous fit for the offense... no doubt about that.
To trade for assets.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
kp is not a 4
I dont think it changes much. Melo isn't the type of player they need. They need someone who can take advantage of their size flaws (e.g. Demarcus Cousins, Davis, etc.) but I'm not quite sure how they get that player.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
Lopez is easily worth 2 #1s from a number of teams. Mozgov once garnered 2 #1s.
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2 1st rounders for Brook Lopez.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
Lopez is easily worth 2 #1s from a number of teams. Mozgov once garnered 2 #1s.
And what teams are those?
Mozgov shouldn't be a benchmark for any NBA transaction. It's a full step short of using "Bargnani garnered a first rounder". Maybe two steps. But nonetheless, my point stands.
Lopez will be turning 30 towards the end of next season. That automatically rules out any team that will be muddling in the lottery and bottom tier playoff teams that might end up in the lottery.
What big time playoff team needs a center? Brook would no doubt be a great fit under Pop but the Spurs aren't in the business of trading picks.
The Warriors? Don't see how the salary would work out given that they will need to max Steph.
Which also translates to offense
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In comment 13339813 giantsfan44ab said:
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2 1st rounders for Brook Lopez.
And I want Scarlett Johanssen as my wife now that she's single.
Lopez is easily worth 2 #1s from a number of teams. Mozgov once garnered 2 #1s.
And what teams are those?
Mozgov shouldn't be a benchmark for any NBA transaction. It's a full step short of using "Bargnani garnered a first rounder". Maybe two steps. But nonetheless, my point stands.
Lopez will be turning 30 towards the end of next season. That automatically rules out any team that will be muddling in the lottery and bottom tier playoff teams that might end up in the lottery.
What big time playoff team needs a center? Brook would no doubt be a great fit under Pop but the Spurs aren't in the business of trading picks.
The Warriors? Don't see how the salary would work out given that they will need to max Steph.
Well I wasnt speaking to fit, but non-lottery picks and especially picks in the 20s arent super valuable. We got one for THJR. I wouldnt take a pick at the end of the round for KOQ. The notion of talking about being worth 2 #1s as if #1s have a constant value doesnt make any sense.
Bought puts a forearm into holidays chest no call
Rose taps Barnes hand it is foul
3 fouls in 5 minutes.
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only played 5 minutes in the first half. Did he get hurt, or just benched?
3 fouls in 5 minutes.
Jeez.
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In comment 13339937 Jon in NYC said:
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only played 5 minutes in the first half. Did he get hurt, or just benched?
3 fouls in 5 minutes.
Jeez.
2 of them just stupid fouls
hornacek is awful..
he cant get a steady rotation and almost 50 games into the season?
It's coaching and you can tell there isn't a lot of emphasis on things like that.
And what mediocre team is willing to sacrifice 2 picks to secure Lopez asto guarantee they won't be in the lottery 3 years from now (which presumably would be when the distant 1st rounder the nets are seeking would be)?
Lopez is a good player but there's no team that's a Brook Lopez away from anything.
holiday never passes up a shot
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kp is awful, you are guarding a guy who can not fucking shoot, why are you running at him?
It's coaching and you can tell there isn't a lot of emphasis on things like that.
he plays fucking stupid..
it is basic defense, stop going for every aingle shot fake, stop running at people on the 3 point line when you are slow footed..
atop slacking off of shooters to go for a block when noah is on the court
from the coach to the 15th guy they are a stupid fucking team
Or maybe the sixers now.
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lebron can force them to make a deal, knicks then flip love to celtics for draft licks..
Or maybe the sixers now.
never thought i would say this but it is time to tank...
and i dont think hornacek is the man for the job
i respect melo for wanting to win here and i will root for him to get that championship if he agrees to thay trade but he is not winning here...it is just not going to work..
knicks need to go on a full rebuild, start selling off parts and play some of the young guys..
you can keep a guy like lee as a veteran presence if you want but you have to get one of these top pgs in the draft
Baker played 4 extremely unhelpful minutes.
I just want to get rid of everyone on the team who's older than 24 (outside of Kuz).