of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Short of getting Harden, Westbrook, Davis, cousins or Towns or moving the Spurs to Pittsburgh I don't think there's a player any EC team can get to put them over Cleveland.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
If Boston is going to give us Crowder+. Let that be their own pick, Brown or any other recent first rounder that won't crack their rotation anytime soon.
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How would the Cavs get rose unless they part with shump, jr or TT?
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
add crowder done deal no crowder no..
Willy could be your starting center for the next 10 years
and then Melo will say no. That's just the way things are with the Knicks.
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
MIN would likely want some veteran PG in return so Dunn isn't relied on too much. It would probably lead to something like Jennings, Noah and Lee for Rubio, Dieng and Shabazz
Boston has a significant amount of picks due to them.
Crowder and the BK pick is an overpay by Boston. Crowder's contract is amazing. If Melo goes to Boston, I'd expect the return to not really cost current roster talent beyond what is absolutely necessary to match salaries. Johnson and Zeller do it, or Johnson, Jerebko and bottom of the roster guys like Rozier and Jackson do it. Knicks return would largely be in draft picks and overseas rights guys. Also, I could see KOQ being added in to address rebounding.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Even if it's not the #1 the difference between the #1 and #3 pick seems negligible (at least now, from whatever I can tell). Assuming we are getting Crowder and if not I'd want some combo of their recent 1st round picks or future Celtics-owned picks.
Yes I know Memphis is a city that would be "WTF" for Melo but if he's really open to waiving his NTC it would be a great fit.
Maybe something like Melo for Parsons, Baldwin, Martin and a future 1st? Not super enticing but you get some young guys.
Rockets? Yeah, I know, I know. He won't fit the Dantoni system but is Ryan Anderson really fitting it all that well?
And as much as the rockets have been a huge surprise and I think Morey should win exec of the year, Harden MVP and Dantoni COY, they're still a far cry away from really being a contender. They're much closer to Utah, LAC (with CP3), and Memphis than they are to Cleveland, GS or SA. They have plenty of assets I love. Id take Dekker and Anderson if that's what it came to. Maybe you can pry Harrell and a pick off them too and toss them KOQ, Kuz and Holiday if need be.
because they have like 6 first rounders in the next 3 years. I'd rather not take on any salary and only add picks which only Boston could do. That being said, I really don't see Melo accepting a trade there without a full court press by the team/players.
Melo and Brandon Jennings to Cleveland, Love to Boston, A. Johnson, picks and various cap filler from Boston and Cleveland to NY.
Boston does it because they would have a starting 5 to at least give a go to anyone in the East. Cleveland may do it because LeBron wants to do it- and gets Jennings to reduce the load on Irving and LeBron handling the ball. The Knicks would likely do it to start over, so long as they get at least on- likely 2 of those probable top 5 picks in the future from Boston.
Will it happen? I doubt it because Cleveland might not want to help a rival. But, if LeBron leans on ownership enough, it could happen.
Outside Andersons 40% 3 point shooting he's liability in every other respect. He's probably the worst rebounding and defensive 4 in the league. He's getting 30 minutes a game and doesn't even average 1 assist. Averages half a steal and a fifth of a block. Clear spot for improvement on the rockets roster and we all know Morey always has his ears open when it comes to getting big names.
Melo for Crowder+ is not a power move to compete with the Cavs. It is an upgrade (and Im sure Melo haters will say it is a downgrade). Melo for Amir Johnson+ is such a power move.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
around the draft I heard that he would have been ranked around #20 if he was in the 2016 draft. I have to think his value is improved from that, given his solid start (by winshares, he'd be the #3 player so far in the 2016 draft, after Rogdon and Siakam, who are both getting more run).
Knowing what you now know, where does Willy go in the 2016 draft? He's clearly into the lottery, and maybe mid-lottery.
Knicks get: Anderson, KJ McDaniels, Brewer, Dekker and harrel (maybe a future 1st rounder and 86 Harrel if they don't want to part with too many promising young guys )
Rockets get: Melo, KOQ, Lee, Holiday and Kuz
Knicks do it because they're are diving straight for a rebuild. I think Dekker has legit potential to be an 18-20 ppg scorer in the league (Jon where are you, forgive me for frank bashing?). Harrel looks like a bigger and stronger Kenny Faried. Just a monster around the rim.
Rockets do it because aside from getting rid of some young players, they convert a lot of dead weight into useful players. KOQ more or less will match the production of Harrel in the short term. Holiday/Kuz will essentially do the same for Dekker. They also get Lee who would be a great shooter off the bench. Overall, they replace Anderson with Melo and improve their bench in the process.
I guess if the Knicks love Harrell and Dekker I'd live with it, sure.
Also, that's a pure 4 and a big 3 coming back. Pushes up against our depth, which is at the 4/5. I'd love to turn Melo into a guard prospect, then add another 1-2-3 in the draft with our pick.
Would I sound biased to say he'd be a top 10 pick? He'd certainly go ahead of Poetl.
I was down on NO for taking Hield but if he's going to be a 12-15 ppg starter who shoots 40% from 3 and plays solid defense he might've been one of the better value picks in the draft (maybe a peak Courtney Lee from his rockets days?). Maybe a tie between Willy and Hield.
I don't think anyone was expecting Bender to be some future superstar. By even a lot of scout's accounts he was more of a guy who would be a plus starter given the way the NBA was transitioning (a 12 and 8 guy who gives you spacing at the 4 or 5). Id take Willy over him now.
Not knocking Murray, but I thought before the draft the nuggets were drafted a 6th man. Given how bad this draft looked, I think that was a positive and not a bad pick. I was down on his long term future of being a starter on a good team. But given his atrocious defense, horrible shot selection, and inability to play PG, I would take Willy over Murray.
I've stated my case for Ingram a few days ago, I'd still take him over Willy but it would be close.
I'd also still take brown. If he can get his jump shot down I think he's a bigger, more athletic Jae Crowder.
Dunn has struggled but his two way potential at PG will leave him as a pretty good starter down the line, id give the edge to Dunn.
Chriss is interesting. That would be a tough call. Still don't know what Chriss is going to be. His athleticism/shooting makes him one of the highest upside guys behind Simmons, Ingram and brown. But his floor is much lower than Willys.
Dont think I have to argue much for Willy over maker/sabonis.
Brogdon is another close call. No real flaws, but he's not going to be some superstar. He's a perfect PG if you have 2-3 studs at the other spots. So I'd say Willy given his age advantage. But I wouldn't argue the other way.
Maybe not too 5 but I think Willy would be in the 6-9 range.
simply because of his height. He had a 7'5" wingspan, insane strength and athleticism. I'd take him over most current pure centers in the league to play the 5 spot next to KP.
D'antoni is not running to get Melo on his roster again; that worked out real well for him last time.
You might be right but it would be different this time.
He has Harden now. I don't think Melo would interfere with the probable MVP. He's not going to play ISO ball because Harden gets the ball on every transition break
Plus if you're going to say Melo doesn't fit the system then i don't know how on God's green earth you are going to convince me that Ryan Anderson does.
alluding to a poor system fit, but the fact that Anthony lead to D'antoni tendering his resignation here. That type of stuff doesn't just get forgotten (see D'antoni's Vertical article a few months ago confirming the Anthony / Lin rift was very real and tore the locker room apart). I see no chance that D'antoni would want to bring Melo into the fold of his first taste of success in 10 years.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
More
Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
More
Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
if it is true the knicks are engaging with teams that means they have permission
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
Melo for Crowder+ is not a power move to compete with the Cavs. It is an upgrade (and Im sure Melo haters will say it is a downgrade). Melo for Amir Johnson+ is such a power move.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
A move like this means the Celtics realistically think they can beat the Cavs. You're 100% correct about keeping Crowder. I actually really like the Amir Johnson angle. I'd hate to give up Willy because I think he might become a very good center one day, but if it means getting back the Nets pick you HAVE to do it.
The bigger problem is I have a hard time believing the Knicks will trade with their long time division rival.
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I think there is a dance that gives you some insight. Melo says a bunch of things in the Phil meeting (e.g. "you know I always wanted to play with one of my boys, LebRon, Dwayne or CP"). Phil reads the tea leaves, but nothing is guaranteed. Indeed, I think that's likely the real situation anyway -- if CLE or LAC reach a deal with Phil, Melo will still need to think about it.
alluding to a poor system fit, but the fact that Anthony lead to D'antoni tendering his resignation here. That type of stuff doesn't just get forgotten (see D'antoni's Vertical article a few months ago confirming the Anthony / Lin rift was very real and tore the locker room apart). I see no chance that D'antoni would want to bring Melo into the fold of his first taste of success in 10 years.
Unfortunately for D'antoni he's not the GM. If Morey had the opportunity to get Melo for 2-3 non-lottery picks he's going to go for the value play time and time again.
I love what the rockets are doing but you can't tell me they deserve to be in the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs convo. I'd have a hard time arguing that they're necessarily above the Clips, Jazz, Raptors and Grizzlies tier.
The next question is what are they going to do to get better? They have no assets to pry the Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butlers of the league. The one big name that they can get fo 70 cents on the dollar is Melo. If they aren't going to make any moves then what is the end goal? Run this team with Harden back every year and hope the improvements of Harrel, Dekker and Capella more than offset the eventual (and possibly near) decline of Harden, Gordon, Airza, Beverley and Anderson?
I'd have a hard time think dantoni has any say over Morey in these matters. I'm not sure if dantoni was brought in before or after FA, but Anderson was certainly not discussed with Dantoni that much if he was.
I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.
so if they wanted to re sign both guys they would sign one with early bird rights and the other with rookie max...
Not sure how/if the salary would work but even this year's Brooklyn pick alone would be a great return for 'Melo given his current value IMO.
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i doubt they would do it but would you do jennings and a pick for okafor?
Simmons will be the point guard in a few weeks.
Simmons will be point guard. They need a shooting guard who can defense quick point guards.
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he claims boston is wprking to try and put a package together for melo and they want to get it done
Not sure how/if the salary would work but even this year's Brooklyn pick alone would be a great return for 'Melo given his current value IMO.
crowder amir jerebko works money wise..
add in the pick and i will drive melo to airport
Short of getting Harden, Westbrook, Davis, cousins or Towns or moving the Spurs to Pittsburgh I don't think there's a player any EC team can get to put them over Cleveland.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
Quote:
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How can cleveland take on Rose's salary?
Quote:
of Melo, Horford, and Isiah enough to take down the Cavs and keep LeBron out of the finals for the first time since 2010?Probably not, but it would be a fun series.
Depending how they meshed I think they would have a legit chance in a 7 game series. Then help the Cavs and send them Rose for Liggins, Osman and 2020 pick. Essentially do what the Yankees did and sell off vets to teams desperate to win this season.
How would the Cavs get rose unless they part with shump, jr or TT?
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
add crowder done deal no crowder no..
Willy could be your starting center for the next 10 years
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
you would hope if they truly are talking that phil already asked melo if boston is ok
Boston is ideal. They still aren't winning anything and the return could be a nice combination of players and picks.
Unfortunately Cleveland doesn't have the pieces to take on rose's contract, but he would be a great fit for what they need.
We have other pieces that teams would want. I would love to see noah to minny for Rubio and Dieng. Then trade Jennings for anything that we can get.
MIN would likely want some veteran PG in return so Dunn isn't relied on too much. It would probably lead to something like Jennings, Noah and Lee for Rubio, Dieng and Shabazz
Brooklyn's 2018 first rounder
Clippers 2019 first rounder
Memphis 2019 first rounder
I know everyone wants this year nets pick, but I think we'd be good with:
Jerebko, Amir Johnson, Zeller, James Young, nets 2019 first, clippers 2019 first for Melo and O'quinn
Query: If Boston said Melo and Willy for Brooklyn's #1 (this year or next) and maybe a little bit more from Boston, do you say yes? It's tempting -- could be a #1 overall.
Even if it's not the #1 the difference between the #1 and #3 pick seems negligible (at least now, from whatever I can tell). Assuming we are getting Crowder and if not I'd want some combo of their recent 1st round picks or future Celtics-owned picks.
Maybe something like Melo for Parsons, Baldwin, Martin and a future 1st? Not super enticing but you get some young guys.
Rockets? Yeah, I know, I know. He won't fit the Dantoni system but is Ryan Anderson really fitting it all that well?
And as much as the rockets have been a huge surprise and I think Morey should win exec of the year, Harden MVP and Dantoni COY, they're still a far cry away from really being a contender. They're much closer to Utah, LAC (with CP3), and Memphis than they are to Cleveland, GS or SA. They have plenty of assets I love. Id take Dekker and Anderson if that's what it came to. Maybe you can pry Harrell and a pick off them too and toss them KOQ, Kuz and Holiday if need be.
Melo and Brandon Jennings to Cleveland, Love to Boston, A. Johnson, picks and various cap filler from Boston and Cleveland to NY.
Boston does it because they would have a starting 5 to at least give a go to anyone in the East. Cleveland may do it because LeBron wants to do it- and gets Jennings to reduce the load on Irving and LeBron handling the ball. The Knicks would likely do it to start over, so long as they get at least on- likely 2 of those probable top 5 picks in the future from Boston.
Will it happen? I doubt it because Cleveland might not want to help a rival. But, if LeBron leans on ownership enough, it could happen.
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
Knowing what you now know, where does Willy go in the 2016 draft? He's clearly into the lottery, and maybe mid-lottery.
Rockets get: Melo, KOQ, Lee, Holiday and Kuz
Knicks do it because they're are diving straight for a rebuild. I think Dekker has legit potential to be an 18-20 ppg scorer in the league (Jon where are you, forgive me for frank bashing?). Harrel looks like a bigger and stronger Kenny Faried. Just a monster around the rim.
Rockets do it because aside from getting rid of some young players, they convert a lot of dead weight into useful players. KOQ more or less will match the production of Harrel in the short term. Holiday/Kuz will essentially do the same for Dekker. They also get Lee who would be a great shooter off the bench. Overall, they replace Anderson with Melo and improve their bench in the process.
Also, that's a pure 4 and a big 3 coming back. Pushes up against our depth, which is at the 4/5. I'd love to turn Melo into a guard prospect, then add another 1-2-3 in the draft with our pick.
I was down on NO for taking Hield but if he's going to be a 12-15 ppg starter who shoots 40% from 3 and plays solid defense he might've been one of the better value picks in the draft (maybe a peak Courtney Lee from his rockets days?). Maybe a tie between Willy and Hield.
I don't think anyone was expecting Bender to be some future superstar. By even a lot of scout's accounts he was more of a guy who would be a plus starter given the way the NBA was transitioning (a 12 and 8 guy who gives you spacing at the 4 or 5). Id take Willy over him now.
Not knocking Murray, but I thought before the draft the nuggets were drafted a 6th man. Given how bad this draft looked, I think that was a positive and not a bad pick. I was down on his long term future of being a starter on a good team. But given his atrocious defense, horrible shot selection, and inability to play PG, I would take Willy over Murray.
I've stated my case for Ingram a few days ago, I'd still take him over Willy but it would be close.
I'd also still take brown. If he can get his jump shot down I think he's a bigger, more athletic Jae Crowder.
Dunn has struggled but his two way potential at PG will leave him as a pretty good starter down the line, id give the edge to Dunn.
Chriss is interesting. That would be a tough call. Still don't know what Chriss is going to be. His athleticism/shooting makes him one of the highest upside guys behind Simmons, Ingram and brown. But his floor is much lower than Willys.
Dont think I have to argue much for Willy over maker/sabonis.
Brogdon is another close call. No real flaws, but he's not going to be some superstar. He's a perfect PG if you have 2-3 studs at the other spots. So I'd say Willy given his age advantage. But I wouldn't argue the other way.
Maybe not too 5 but I think Willy would be in the 6-9 range.
You might be right but it would be different this time.
He has Harden now. I don't think Melo would interfere with the probable MVP. He's not going to play ISO ball because Harden gets the ball on every transition break
Plus if you're going to say Melo doesn't fit the system then i don't know how on God's green earth you are going to convince me that Ryan Anderson does.
Rubio/Baker
Muhammad/Hezonja
Dekker
KP/Harrel
Willy/Dieng/Plumlee
And then picks from the Rockets and then sell of Vucevic for whatever picks he's worth on the open market.
More
Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
Quote:
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago
More
Story posting now with @chrisbhaynes: ESPN sources say Knicks HAVE tried to engage Cleveland in Melo-for-Love trade talks but were rebuffed
I don't know anything about this writer, but Stein is typically reliable. Putting aside the Cavs not wanting Melo (at least not for Love), the real question is whether or not Phil/Mills had permission from Melo to seek a deal.
if it is true the knicks are engaging with teams that means they have permission
I think the move is Melo and rebounding for futures. Put in Willy, get back Zizic. Similar profile -- 7' 250 euro center to rolls/cuts to the basket very well with great timing/touch. DX says great motor and physicality. Maybe a better defensive prospect, but far less polished/ready on offense.
Just trying to be a little more realistic than taking their best forward and an amazing Nets pick for a declining Melo who has limited landing spots due to $$ and NTC. That Brooklyn pick is 95+% to be a top 4 pick right now, even factoring in the lottery (per BBRef). Guarantees you one of Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, or Monk. Plus it probably lets the Knicks slip into the 8-10 range of the draft where we might land a Tatum or a sliding Jackson.
A move like this means the Celtics realistically think they can beat the Cavs. You're 100% correct about keeping Crowder. I actually really like the Amir Johnson angle. I'd hate to give up Willy because I think he might become a very good center one day, but if it means getting back the Nets pick you HAVE to do it.
The bigger problem is I have a hard time believing the Knicks will trade with their long time division rival.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Quote:
I dont know about the NBA, but I've read repeatedly in hockey that you work out the deal first, then you approach the player. Players/agents dont like to give formal preclearence because it tends to undermine the NTC right -- you dont want your GM pestering you for the names of 20 teams you'd take a trade to.
you would think he gave the knicks at least an idea of who he would go to
I think there is a dance that gives you some insight. Melo says a bunch of things in the Phil meeting (e.g. "you know I always wanted to play with one of my boys, LebRon, Dwayne or CP"). Phil reads the tea leaves, but nothing is guaranteed. Indeed, I think that's likely the real situation anyway -- if CLE or LAC reach a deal with Phil, Melo will still need to think about it.
Unfortunately for D'antoni he's not the GM. If Morey had the opportunity to get Melo for 2-3 non-lottery picks he's going to go for the value play time and time again.
I love what the rockets are doing but you can't tell me they deserve to be in the Spurs, Warriors and Cavs convo. I'd have a hard time arguing that they're necessarily above the Clips, Jazz, Raptors and Grizzlies tier.
The next question is what are they going to do to get better? They have no assets to pry the Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butlers of the league. The one big name that they can get fo 70 cents on the dollar is Melo. If they aren't going to make any moves then what is the end goal? Run this team with Harden back every year and hope the improvements of Harrel, Dekker and Capella more than offset the eventual (and possibly near) decline of Harden, Gordon, Airza, Beverley and Anderson?
I'd have a hard time think dantoni has any say over Morey in these matters. I'm not sure if dantoni was brought in before or after FA, but Anderson was certainly not discussed with Dantoni that much if he was.
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I hope they just deal him by the deadline? Does anyone - including Melo - want to put up with this BS through the summer?
The only thing that stops this kind of talk is if the Knicks go on a nice win streak. If they start winning the trade talk will die down. For the health of everyone involved and us fans that's what I hope happens.
Eh. I want them to lose and improve their lottery position. Though if Im watching, I want them to win. I just cannot come around to watching a Knicks game and rooting against them. My brain doesnt allow it.