Browns had the cap space and couldn't let him walk after trading a #2 for him...
from Ian Rappaport on Twitter...
"The contract extension for #Browns LB Jamie Collins: 4 years, $50M, source said. $26M in guarantees. Large."
he'll be the fourth highest paid LB in the league...
Chandler Jones had a great season and at least part of the motivation for dealing him was getting enough cap space to re-sign Collins.
The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
The ability to get a HoF QB to accept payment 50% below market value for over a decade...how? There's not that many supermodels.
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
It's not a magic trick but it's not easy to emulate either. You don't think other coaches have tried? You don't think the countless coordinators who left him then crashed and burned didn't try?
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In comment 13337499 djm said:
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
It's not a magic trick but it's not easy to emulate either. You don't think other coaches have tried? You don't think the countless coordinators who left him then crashed and burned didn't try?
There is an old saying 'If it was easy everybody would be doing it.'
Rest assured, if no one else is doing it, it ain't easy.
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
And if you can get your franchise QB to give up cap dollars in exchange for a future ownership equity that he hasn't received yet, go for it. But not many owners or QBs will agree to that scenario. And even if they do, good luck finding your very own Ernie Adams to find every single loophole and inefficiency.
If you told Pats fans (and the media) before the off-season they'd trade Chandler Jones for a kicking tee and Jamie Collins for a 4th round pick and their D would be top 5 in the league and maybe the best in the Belichick era none of them would have believed you.
It's really not overstated how well coached that organization is.
If you told Pats fans (and the media) before the off-season they'd trade Chandler Jones for a kicking tee and Jamie Collins for a 4th round pick and their D would be top 5 in the league and maybe the best in the Belichick era none of them would have believed you.
It's really not overstated how well coached that organization is.
They really are the exception, their success rate is absurd. I actually agree with Terps' strategy in part, but I don't think it can be applied to most franchises. I'd like to think it can be done here but I'm extremely skeptical. If it was this simple it would have been copied by now and it just isn't. Every once in a while you'll see a talented player get traded or released while they are still in their prime, but it's a rare occurrence.
Yeah, I think you're right, I assumed the trade meant if they got a comp pick for losing Collins, but I think you're right.
The Pats are light years better than just about every NFL team when it comes to taking away team strengths and changing their own style as needed. I guess this is harder to do than it looks, because nearly every other team going doesn't adjust like the Pats do. That's how you emulate the Pats. Oh, and then you have to be the best teacher and be the best at developing from within. And you can't make many mistakes in FA. But let's start at step one first.
The brilliant game-planning isn't complex. It isn't rocket science. Bill just has his team ready to play any style at any point in time.
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In comment 13337499 djm said:
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
The ability to get a HoF QB to accept payment 50% below market value for over a decade...how? There's not that many supermodels.
Its not half, looking at total money on his current deal its the same as Eli. 41 million over 2 years for Brady, while 84 million over 4 years for Eli. When you look at guaranteed money Brady is a couple million cheaper per year, but not half.
Maybe Brady is the better team player by taking 1 or 2 million less per year?
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady-4619/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/
How the hell can the Steelers say today that they were taken by surprise by what the Pats did on Sunday? The Pats spread them out early and blew their doors off. Are you fucking kidding me????? How does that happen? And that's exactly what Tomlin said earlier today--they were taken by surprise.
How on earth do the Steelers get caught flat footed on defense? Everyone knows the Pats can spread things out. Everyone knows Pitt doesn't have the best personnel packages for dealing with spread offenses...so what happens? The Pats kick the Steelers teeth in early on and the game was all but over by Halftime even if the score wasn't that bad yet.
Teams are stubborn. Coaches take this my way or the highway approach and they lose big games because of it. It's like they have to coach the game one way only.
How the hell can the Steelers say today that they were taken by surprise by what the Pats did on Sunday? The Pats spread them out early and blew their doors off. Are you fucking kidding me????? How does that happen? And that's exactly what Tomlin said earlier today--they were taken by surprise.
How on earth do the Steelers get caught flat footed on defense? Everyone knows the Pats can spread things out. Everyone knows Pitt doesn't have the best personnel packages for dealing with spread offenses...so what happens? The Pats kick the Steelers teeth in early on and the game was all but over by Halftime even if the score wasn't that bad yet.
Teams are stubborn. Coaches take this my way or the highway approach and they lose big games because of it. It's like they have to coach the game one way only.
I think it's a bit of both. I also think that most coaches are working with the knowledge that they have 2 or 3 years to produce results before being replaced. That isn't enough time to implement a system, establish a talent pipeline, etc. It also shapes how the players relate to the coach. If Bill Belichick tells a player to behave a certain way, that player knows he has to toe the line because Belichick ain't going anywhere. Fall in line, because everyone is replaceable.
And Belichick every week usually outsmarts the other coaches.
The October game against the Steelers, with Gronk, the Patriots averaged 5 ypc running the ball and Blount had two TD's. Brady wasn't bad, but mostly went with short safe stuff.
So knowing how football coaches think Butler says I'm going to stop the run, get into a zone D and don't think twice. Need to take away Blount and our zone can handle Edelman.
Belichick anticipates this and while they ran 27 times, until the 4th when they were running out the clock they really didn't even try and run. They split out 4 wides, Bennett blocked most of the time to make sure Brady had time and Edelman and Hogan tore apart the zone.
And even if Butler tried to switch to man, no one is covering Edelman on those short crossing routes when Brady throws the ball so quickly.
And Brady gets minimized but he deserves more credit then simply a pawn that Belichick uses. He excels in this role.
It's not a template you can emulate, you can't make yourself more smart, or build up the goodwill it takes to make the ballsy decisions, it's why the Patriots coach cast-aways generally fail.
Belichick routinely does this, comes up with game plans on both sides of the ball to deceive the opponent.
And forget about adjustments. the Patriots are something like a ridiculous 85 straight wins when leading at home at half time.
stats like that aren't small samples or accidents.
did you come up with those numbers?
1. Continuity at head coach. The Steelers are actually the model for this.
2. Don't overcommit in the free agent market.
3. When possible trade an ascending player for picks before he becomes a free agent.
1. Continuity at head coach. The Steelers are actually the model for this.
2. Don't overcommit in the free agent market.
3. When possible trade an ascending player for picks before he becomes a free agent.
Some in the New England media cite #3 as something that has possibly cost the Patriots 1 to 2 more Super Bowl wins.
For example. Deion Branch. Such a good rapport with Brady. SB MVP. Time to get paid, entering his final contracted season the Patriots give him permission to seek a trade after failing to agree on an extension. His agent gets Seattle to pony up a 1st and the Patriots deal him.
Fast forward to the AFC championship game when Reche Caldwell, the new #1 receiver dropped two (at least) un-contested passes that could have put the game away, instead the Colts came back and won. No guarantee Branch fares any differently, but a lot of people felt it wasn't close the difference between the two.
Also Richard Seymour. The Patriots got a #1 back for him, but sorely missed him in the middle of their D particularly against the Ravens in the 2009 playoffs.
I think in the end Belichick is good enough as a coach, and smart enough (and surrounded by smart enough people) he can overcome those personnel gaffes he makes from time to time.
I mean his draft record is far from spotless, but it's sort of moot when you win.
It will be interesting to see how they handle this off-season, they have a lot of cap room, but also some key players to sign.
And the draft record definitely isn't perfect, but their approach allows them a greater margin for error because outside of Brady they are not pinning their fortunes so heavily on a single player. That insulates them against all the negative possibilities that endanger the effectiveness of an NFL player (injury/contract/off-field etc.).
It started with Lawyer Milloy and he didn't have the goodwill back then and if you remember Tom Jackson and the media hammered him. "Belichick has lost the locker room" "players don't want to play for him" after that 33 - 0 loss days after releasing veteran safety Lawyer Milloy.
The Patriots won the Super Bowl that year.
Most GM's have to make moves like their job depended on it.
Now Belichick can pretty much do whatever he wants from a personnel standpoint with zero blowback.
I agreed with #1 and #2, but to get #1 you need to win, not many teams have patience and maybe justifiably in the NFL to let coaches get to #1 (See Belichick in Cleveland) and to avoid #2 you need to draft well or develop talent - which highlights an undervalued skill of Belichick and his staff - they get contributions from up and down the draft board.
It's unique in NE in that Belichick I don't think has had an official GM in his tenure. I don't think Pioli ever had that official title though he might be the person who served the closest to that role under Belichick.
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And that goes back to my point #1 above...continuity. With the McAdoo hiring the Giants are in position to create a culture of their own. He's a good coach and he's young. We should be here 10 years from now with him still as coach.
I agreed with #1 and #2, but to get #1 you need to win, not many teams have patience and maybe justifiably in the NFL to let coaches get to #1 (See Belichick in Cleveland) and to avoid #2 you need to draft well or develop talent - which highlights an undervalued skill of Belichick and his staff - they get contributions from up and down the draft board.
It's unique in NE in that Belichick I don't think has had an official GM in his tenure. I don't think Pioli ever had that official title though he might be the person who served the closest to that role under Belichick.
No doubt...that type of approach would require some faith from ownership.
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In comment 13337501 Go Terps said:
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In comment 13337499 djm said:
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In comment 13337433 Go Terps said:
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The pats are not necessarily a model to emulate unless you have the greatest coach and qb of the modern era in place. Oh yea the qb also makes less money than most starting qbs. So yeah, good luck with that.
Giants should just release every single FA to be that will cost anything significant? Am I right?
Actually I think the Pats are model to emulate. There's a reason Belichick is as good as he is. It's not a magic trick.
The ability to get a HoF QB to accept payment 50% below market value for over a decade...how? There's not that many supermodels.
Its not half, looking at total money on his current deal its the same as Eli. 41 million over 2 years for Brady, while 84 million over 4 years for Eli. When you look at guaranteed money Brady is a couple million cheaper per year, but not half.
Maybe Brady is the better team player by taking 1 or 2 million less per year?
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady-4619/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/
You're looking at his current contract. Go back and look at what I mentioned, when he routinely made less than QBs like Foles and Vick and Cutler and Smith. He was #16 paid QB in 2014.
So yes, go find a HoF QB that doesn't need or demand a proper salary. That would be a huge first step.