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JPP wants $85 million and fans to stop the 'BS'

Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:00 am
Thanks Dawg..Included in his daily amazing threads..A few Twitter comments by JPP:

Quote:


"I am Jason Pierre-Paul and I will hunt your QB down. I'll do whatever it takes just know that!!"


"To all the fans that follow me and talking BS I really don't care because guess what you follow ME!!!"






Link - ( New Window )
.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:03 am : link
Quote:


Giants defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul who will become an unrestricted free agent on March 9 made his case to all NFL teams on Twitter on Tuesday and then apparently got upset when he received some negative feedback from Big Blue fans.

...  
christian : 1/25/2017 9:04 am : link
The sentiment in the thread starter and then in the quote seem different to me.
and I wanna fuck Angie Dickinson  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2017 9:05 am : link
loved Uncle Junior.

I want to win Powerball and have my wide stop breaking my balls. Doubt either happens
Some people love nothing better in life than to tell athletes online  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2017 9:06 am : link
What to do and how much money they are worth.
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:06 am : link
In comment 13338869 christian said:
Quote:
The sentiment in the thread starter and then in the quote seem different to me.


I took the thread title directly from the article..More context I guess in the article itself
I know these guys get a lot of shit thrown at them from Twitter  
jcn56 : 1/25/2017 9:06 am : link
but I can't understand why they pay any attention to it at all. Between the trolls and the lunatics, you're really not getting anywhere trying to address the problem.
RE: and I wanna fuck Angie Dickinson  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13338871 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
loved Uncle Junior.

I want to win Powerball and have my wide stop breaking my balls. Doubt either happens


I don't think you want to take AD deep at this point in time
RE: I know these guys get a lot of shit thrown at them from Twitter  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13338874 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but I can't understand why they pay any attention to it at all. Between the trolls and the lunatics, you're really not getting anywhere trying to address the problem.


exactly!! no twitter or facebook or anything else for me. BBI is my social media. No loonies here!! :-)
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13338869 christian said:
Quote:
The sentiment in the thread starter and then in the quote seem different to me.


The first quote was to the NFL in general..The second to fans
RE: RE: and I wanna fuck Angie Dickinson  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13338876 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13338871 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


loved Uncle Junior.

I want to win Powerball and have my wide stop breaking my balls. Doubt either happens



I don't think you want to take AD deep at this point in time


no she's about 107 by now :-) Just love those Uncle Junior quotes.

The feds are so far up my ass they could taste Brylcream.
RE: RE: RE: and I wanna fuck Angie Dickinson  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:10 am : link
In comment 13338881 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13338876 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13338871 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


loved Uncle Junior.

I want to win Powerball and have my wide stop breaking my balls. Doubt either happens



I don't think you want to take AD deep at this point in time



no she's about 107 by now :-) Just love those Uncle Junior quotes.

The feds are so far up my ass they could taste Brylcream.


Almost spit the coffee...👍👍
I don't do twitter,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:11 am : link
but it seems that athletes et al, really set themselves up..But, it's today's reality
Well he does deserve as much as Vernon  
rasbutant : 1/25/2017 9:15 am : link
problem is Vernon shouldn't have got what he did. But teams are flushed with cash and Vernon deal won't look so bad 4 years from now.
...  
christian : 1/25/2017 9:16 am : link
That's bottom-barrel click bait. Point number one comes from another article, with an unverified fact. Point number two materially changes the sentiment expressed. The quote says nothing about "stopping" anything.

Worst of all is trying to connect the two as if they came from the same conversation.
Again. See ya  
Sy'56 : 1/25/2017 9:17 am : link
.
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13338894 christian said:
Quote:
That's bottom-barrel click bait. Point number one comes from another article, with an unverified fact. Point number two materially changes the sentiment expressed. The quote says nothing about "stopping" anything.

Worst of all is trying to connect the two as if they came from the same conversation.


Didn't notice that
I would love to have JPP back at LDE ...  
Beer Man : 1/25/2017 9:18 am : link
Unfortunately there is a business side to football that may make resigning him difficult. True the Giants have the cap space to sign JPP, but doing so will probably eat up a big chunk of the available cap space and leave them short to address other positions of great need. Jerry also has to be concerned with having enough cash to sign key players that will become FAs in 2018 (Pugh, Weston, OBJ)
I can see that as an opening position  
njm : 1/25/2017 9:19 am : link
Lot of teams out there with a lot of cap space. Whether he gets it or not is another story, but I wouldn't rule it out. I'd like to see the Giants respond with 5 years for $75 million.
I can see that as an opening position  
njm : 1/25/2017 9:20 am : link
Lot of teams out there with a lot of cap space. Whether he gets it or not is another story, but I wouldn't rule it out. I'd like to see the Giants respond with 5 years for $75 million.
RE: I would love to have JPP back at LDE ...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13338898 Beer Man said:
Quote:
Unfortunately there is a business side to football that may make resigning him difficult. True the Giants have the cap space to sign JPP, but doing so will probably eat up a big chunk of the available cap space and leave them short to address other positions of great need. Jerry also has to be concerned with having enough cash to sign key players that will become FAs in 2018 (Pugh, Weston, OBJ)


Agreed, but if he is coming back, they can play with tge contract and make it possible to sign other much needed upgrades..The problem money-wise TO ME, is the Franchise Tag and the hard cap hit it represents, imv
BB56  
Chris684 : 1/25/2017 9:22 am : link
Just out of curiosity, what did JPP do to make you hate him so much?

RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13338903 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what did JPP do to make you hate him so much?


Where in this thread do you get that from?

What he did? He carried a truckload of explosives endangering himself and possibly others..It was stupid, irresponsible and fucked up his team. We could have used his production..We all make mistakes, I get that..We all however, don't necessarily make such egregious ones..

Oh and I thought he was very good this year..Surprised the hell,out of me..
And, I'm fine with him coming back.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 9:33 am : link
Just against the FT, which I believe could handicap our ability to acquire MUCH NEEDED O help
RE: Again. See ya  
jcn56 : 1/25/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13338895 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
.


You've been clear on not wanting him back under those terms, but haven't seen your reasoning. Is it that you think we can replace him with someone less expensive, do you think he might be a work ethic concern once he gets paid, injuries, ?
What JPP did was stupid, no doubt  
Chris684 : 1/25/2017 9:37 am : link
and yes it ultimately hurt his team, but it was a mistake for crying out loud. It wasnt a criminal act, it was something that millions of people do on many different occasions.

It sounds like you think JPP is selfish? And maybe that's your gripe.

I just find it odd because you praised Beckham as a "fabulous teammate" on the other thread. Here's a guy whose behavior gets so out of control he's already been suspended for one full game, and hindered the team with a handful of other personal foul penalties in several different games like Carolina last year, Minnesota and Washington earlier this year (all losses).

It would be nice if you were consistent.
RE: And, I'm fine with him coming back.  
Giants2012 : 1/25/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13338917 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Just against the FT, which I believe could handicap our ability to acquire MUCH NEEDED O help



Why would it? Any OL they go after have a portion of their bonus deferred. Everybody in the league does it and we have over half the league with a ton of cap space.
...  
christian : 1/25/2017 9:37 am : link
I'm glad Reese has proven time and again not to be too concerned with public sentiment, because there are GMs I suspect who are.

Articles like this so clearly intended to rial those who don't like the player.

What we've seen from Reese re: JPP is consistent patience and a desire for him to be a Giant. I'm confident Reese will approach this off-season the same way, and if a mutually productive deal is out there, it will be found.

But bottom line, JPP didn't say anything inflammatory in the least.
RE: What JPP did was stupid, no doubt  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13338927 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and yes it ultimately hurt his team, but it was a mistake for crying out loud. It wasnt a criminal act, it was something that millions of people do on many different occasions.

It sounds like you think JPP is selfish? And maybe that's your gripe.

I just find it odd because you praised Beckham as a "fabulous teammate" on the other thread. Here's a guy whose behavior gets so out of control he's already been suspended for one full game, and hindered the team with a handful of other personal foul penalties in several different games like Carolina last year, Minnesota and Washington earlier this year (all losses).

It would be nice if you were consistent.


Totally consistent..What OBJ has done at times is stupid and I've said so..He needs to clean things up and for the post part I believe he has..The report of OBJ came from several sources that you and I have heard. That's all I can go by..Millions of people DO NOT do things that egregious..He could have killed someone(s)..

Look, think what you want, that's fine. You asked me a question and I answered it..My responses of late have little to do with JPP and my dislike for him..I am trying to address our O needs, my desire to keep Hankins and how a FT could hurt our cap..I've said many times that I'm fine with him staying on a contract that can be amortized so that we can also address urgent needs this year..

I don't want to discuss my dislike of JPP any further unless, MOVING FORWARD you feel my opinions about retaining him or not are prejudicial vis a vis my personal feelings
Fair enough!  
Chris684 : 1/25/2017 10:08 am : link
..
RE: Fair enough!  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13338997 Chris684 said:
Quote:
..


I forgot what your opinion was re Framchising him
This "saga" with JPP is going to get a lot worse  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 10:17 am : link
before it gets better...

I'd love to keep him but  
mrvax : 1/25/2017 10:19 am : link
why is he looking for a 10 year deal?
RE: Well he does deserve as much as Vernon  
ErichBarnes102 : 1/25/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13338890 rasbutant said:
Quote:
problem is Vernon shouldn't have got what he did. But teams are flushed with cash and Vernon deal won't look so bad 4 years from now.

Vernon's deal probably won't look so bad 4 months from now.
RE: I'd love to keep him but  
Diver_Down : 1/25/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13339016 mrvax said:
Quote:
why is he looking for a 10 year deal?


I see what you did there.
I believe in using the tag as insurance...  
Chris684 : 1/25/2017 10:30 am : link
I think you might see it while both sides negotiate. I think if the relationship is going to move forward, JPP will have to move off of his demands, but I think and expect the Giants will have to make a fair offer.

As you have noted when it comes to JPP, I am one of the seemingly few people on this board who remains a huge fan of the guy. I have never believed for a minute the accusations of poor work ethic, overweight, etc. When you watch game tape, that is not the JPP you see. He is busting his ass and around the ball on just about every play.

RE: RE: Well he does deserve as much as Vernon  
Giants2012 : 1/25/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13339021 ErichBarnes102 said:
Quote:
In comment 13338890 rasbutant said:


Quote:


problem is Vernon shouldn't have got what he did. But teams are flushed with cash and Vernon deal won't look so bad 4 years from now.


Vernon's deal probably won't look so bad 4 months from now.


+1

Look at the cap dollars out there. Teams likely will spend a ton. Vernon's contract will look like a steal.
Is Ralph stupid?  
mrvax : 1/25/2017 10:33 am : link
Seriously.

Quote:
Given the number of teams with cap space to spend who are likely to be looking for a pass rusher -- including the Cowboys -- he might end up with more.


🤷
RE: ...  
Giants2012 : 1/25/2017 10:35 am : link
In comment 13338931 christian said:
Quote:
I'm glad Reese has proven time and again not to be too concerned with public sentiment, because there are GMs I suspect who are.



Yeah, just look at the OL. He's not listening to us :)
if he would take that now  
Chip : 1/25/2017 10:36 am : link
The Giants should do it. He will get more after March 9. With all the cap money out there contracts are going up big time. The bidding wars begin March 9.
You want to have a big time D  
tomjgiant : 1/25/2017 10:57 am : link
Then you need to have big time players,and big time players get paid big or should I say bigly.
He isn't getting that from the Giants...  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:01 am : link
...nor does he deserve it. He hasn't been healthy enough and consistently productive enough to get that deal imo. But that's why they negotiate. The tag will be applied, negotiations will ensue. His contract demands will moderate or he will be traded.

What the Giants FO shouldn't do under any circumstance is let him walk away with nothing to show for it. That would be the height of stupidity. He's an asset we control the contractual rights to. You get something in return when you deal an asset.
RE: He isn't getting that from the Giants...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:04 am : link
In comment 13339119 Torrag said:
Quote:
...nor does he deserve it. He hasn't been healthy enough and consistently productive enough to get that deal imo. But that's why they negotiate. The tag will be applied, negotiations will ensue. His contract demands will moderate or he will be traded.

What the Giants FO shouldn't do under any circumstance is let him walk away with nothing to show for it. That would be the height of stupidity. He's an asset we control the contractual rights to. You get something in return when you deal an asset.


Quote:


What the Giants FO shouldn't do under any circumstance is let him walk away with nothing to show for it. That would be the height of stupidity. He's an asset we control the contractual rights to. You get something in return when you deal an asset.



And how do we accomplish that, realistically?
'56  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:11 am : link
You tag him and trade him. Out of the division. He'll have his suitors that will pay him what he wants and are willing to deal for him. There are plenty of examples of tag and trade in the NFL. We don't have to play hard ball on compensation...two #1's etc. I'll take a #1 and 4 pick...or a #2 and #3 pick.
RE: '56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13339146 Torrag said:
Quote:
You tag him and trade him. Out of the division. He'll have his suitors that will pay him what he wants and are willing to deal for him. There are plenty of examples of tag and trade in the NFL. We don't have to play hard ball on compensation...two #1's etc. I'll take a #1 and 4 pick...or a #2 and #3 pick.


Ahh. Do you recall off the top of your head when the last tag amd trade was and who was involved? Wasn't Hutchinson, that was the infamous poison offer sheet
Frankly I want to trade JPP. Why?  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:19 am : link
Because I don't trust him to maintain his effort level once he cashes in. He had to bust his butt off the fireworks debacle plus playing on a one year prove it contract. I still question how he handled his business with the team after his hand injury and his circle of 'friends and advisors'.
First of all, a business ...  
Manny in CA : 1/25/2017 11:20 am : link

He injured himself (shame on him), but came back with a vengeance (good for him), he's a great teammate and very well liked in the locker-room (that's important) ...

Now, he's determined to get paid (to the point where we can't afford him), that just "what it is" (in a business that has a short lifespan). So why would anybody around here be mad a him, it's crazy.

JPP, we love you man, but if fate decrees that you leave because we are full of holes on the offense that we must fill, it's nobody's fault (certainly not yours).
BB'56  
Diver_Down : 1/25/2017 11:20 am : link
Matt Cassell and Jared Allen were the most recent examples
Franchise Him  
djstat : 1/25/2017 11:21 am : link
Makes sense
Jared Allen is a great comp for dealing JPP in this fashion  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:23 am : link
...
RE: '56  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13339146 Torrag said:
Quote:
You tag him and trade him. Out of the division. He'll have his suitors that will pay him what he wants and are willing to deal for him. There are plenty of examples of tag and trade in the NFL. We don't have to play hard ball on compensation...two #1's etc. I'll take a #1 and 4 pick...or a #2 and #3 pick.

He also has to sign the franchise tag contract. That is his leverage.
Thanks DD  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:26 am : link
.
RE: RE: '56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13339181 therealmf said:
Quote:
In comment 13339146 Torrag said:


Quote:


You tag him and trade him. Out of the division. He'll have his suitors that will pay him what he wants and are willing to deal for him. There are plenty of examples of tag and trade in the NFL. We don't have to play hard ball on compensation...two #1's etc. I'll take a #1 and 4 pick...or a #2 and #3 pick.


He also has to sign the franchise tag contract. That is his leverage.


Well THAT would certainly be the fly in the ointment if they wanted to trade him..
The Fans are what made him  
Howyadoin : 1/25/2017 11:33 am : link
So we can easily dismiss and forget him. We have seen it before and we will see it again.
He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:34 am : link
...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?
I personally doubt there is a Vernon deal out there for him  
Torrag : 1/25/2017 11:37 am : link
Why? Because he's a knucklehead and I wouldn't pay a knucklehead that kind of money. Would you? If his market isn't what he expected he could end up staying with the Giants. I earlier predicted that if he remains a Giant the contract would be in the 4/$58M range.
Everyone knows fans are stupid  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/25/2017 11:37 am : link
There's no reason for JPP to be stupid too. Shut up and let your agent do his job.
RE: He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13339199 Torrag said:
Quote:
...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?


Makes perfect sense. Here's hoping you're right if we can't lock him up here
It strikes me as never a good thing  
DonQuixote : 1/25/2017 11:38 am : link
to bad mouth the fans.
RE: He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13339199 Torrag said:
Quote:
...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?


So easy. Wonder why it hasn't been done in the last , what 8 or 9 years?


RE: RE: He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13339208 therealmf said:
Quote:
In comment 13339199 Torrag said:


Quote:


...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?



So easy. Wonder why it hasn't been done in the last , what 8 or 9 years?



He never said or implied it would be easy, just how it could be done..Not sure though, why it hasn't been done more
RE: RE: RE: He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13339212 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339208 therealmf said:


Quote:


In comment 13339199 Torrag said:


Quote:


...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?



So easy. Wonder why it hasn't been done in the last , what 8 or 9 years?





He never said or implied it would be easy, just how it could be done..Not sure though, why it hasn't been done more


Agents negotiating the deal and all we need do is negotiate the compensation? I think that is easy.
RE: It strikes me as never a good thing  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13339206 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
to bad mouth the fans.


Agree. That's the job of BBI posters...
RE: RE: RE: RE: He doesn't sign it 'blind'....  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:55 am : link
In comment 13339220 therealmf said:
Quote:
In comment 13339212 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13339208 therealmf said:


Quote:


In comment 13339199 Torrag said:


Quote:


...you let his agent negotiate his deal with his suitor, and you negotiate your compensation for his rights. He wants to get paid so of course he'll sign it at the appropriate time. Why wouldn't he?



So easy. Wonder why it hasn't been done in the last , what 8 or 9 years?





He never said or implied it would be easy, just how it could be done..Not sure though, why it hasn't been done more



Agents negotiating the deal and all we need do is negotiate the compensation? I think that is easy.


I thought you were being satcastic. I read it as, if it was so easy, why hasn't it been done the last 8-9 years? If that's what you meant, my bad
If that's not what you meant  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 11:56 am : link
.
Josh Norman was franchised last year  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 11:57 am : link
and was a much sought after, if not over hyped, FA. Carolina just rescinded the tag offer. No compensation at all.

I don't think what is suggested is probable or likely.


And BB56. I was being sarcastic. The followup was showing where Torrag implied it was easy.
RE: RE: RE: '56  
mrvax : 1/25/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13339184 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339181 therealmf said:


Quote:


In comment 13339146 Torrag said:
He also has to sign the franchise tag contract. That is his leverage.



Well THAT would certainly be the fly in the ointment if they wanted to trade him..


He kinda has to sign it. Else, he'll spend a year w/o getting a nickle. I doubt he'd make that $ up. ($17M)
RE: RE: RE: RE: '56  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13339240 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13339184 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13339181 therealmf said:


Quote:


In comment 13339146 Torrag said:
He also has to sign the franchise tag contract. That is his leverage.



Well THAT would certainly be the fly in the ointment if they wanted to trade him..



He kinda has to sign it. Else, he'll spend a year w/o getting a nickle. I doubt he'd make that $ up. ($17M)


He was franchised in 2015. Do you recall when he signed the tender?
Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
EddieNYG : 1/25/2017 12:09 pm : link
And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.
RE: Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13339255 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.


Let me understand this. Are you saying that if he signs the FT, is traded for compensation and works under whatever agreed up contract he signed, we still would be responsible for the 17 mil cap hit?
...  
christian : 1/25/2017 12:22 pm : link
The good news is JPPs reps and Reese have had a productive relationship despite really trying circumstances.

Post-accident they've come to 2 agreements that have been very fair to both sides.

I think it would behoove fan anxiety to actually read what JPP said in his tweet and what it was in response to.
RE: RE: Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13339263 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339255 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.



Let me understand this. Are you saying that if he signs the FT, is traded for compensation and works under whatever agreed up contract he signed, we still would be responsible for the 17 mil cap hit?


I think you are referring to point 3. I think he meant the team JPP signs with, not the Giants.
RE: RE: Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
EddieNYG : 1/25/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13339263 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339255 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.



Let me understand this. Are you saying that if he signs the FT, is traded for compensation and works under whatever agreed up contract he signed, we still would be responsible for the 17 mil cap hit?


No, what I'm saying is that the Giants would be on the hook for the 17 mil if they didn't trade him and an unhappy player who didn't want to be tagged.
RE: RE: RE: Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13339274 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 13339263 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13339255 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.



Let me understand this. Are you saying that if he signs the FT, is traded for compensation and works under whatever agreed up contract he signed, we still would be responsible for the 17 mil cap hit?



No, what I'm saying is that the Giants would be on the hook for the 17 mil if they didn't trade him and an unhappy player who didn't want to be tagged.


Gotcha
Forget the fireworks incident...  
Thats Gold, Jerry : 1/25/2017 12:30 pm : link
JPP still has only played one full 16 game schedule. That, to me, is the bottom line...a player's greatest asset is availability and JPP does not have that on his side.
We have a short window  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2017 12:31 pm : link
with Eli and who know when we'll get back to being a playoff caliber team once he's gone. If we can afford it, sign the guy. Pretty simple.
Eddie gets it  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/25/2017 12:34 pm : link
.
RE: Slapping JPP with the Franchise Tag  
WillVAB : 1/25/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13339255 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
And than trying to trade him is a pipe dream and it makes no sense for the following reasons.

1. Giants will be on the hook for his tag amount so they will have less money to spend in FA.

2. JPP has made it clear he doesn't want to sign a one year deal.

3. Why would a team give up premium picks AND a huge contract for JPP when they could've just signed him in FA.


1. I don't think the Giants will sweat his cap hit under the tag if that is the only option. He's a complete 4-3 DE and another year gives the organization time to groom his replacement. I also don't see the Giants blowing a bunch of money in FA, JPP or not.

2. So? He took the same posture when he blew up his hand. I doubt he leaves 17 mil guaranteed on the table.

3. He won't be available to sign as a FA if the Giants franchise him. If teams are willing to spend big bucks for him, they obviously see him as a game changer DE. Teams may be willing to part ways with picks now to acquire his production right now -- not maybe in '18 if he chooses to sign with them.

JPP  
therealmf : 1/25/2017 12:36 pm : link
or possibly two quality starting FA O-lineman.

I know that is a simplification and probably won't happen but would you make that trade?
I say let him go if that's what he wants  
Mike in Philly : 1/25/2017 12:44 pm : link
You try to make a deal, but if it's not in tbe cards you let him go and take the comp picks the following year. But i would not franchise him. You only do that if you're close on March 8th, imo.
RE: I say let him go if that's what he wants  
Diver_Down : 1/25/2017 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13339293 Mike in Philly said:
Quote:
You try to make a deal, but if it's not in tbe cards you let him go and take the comp picks the following year. But i would not franchise him. You only do that if you're close on March 8th, imo.


FYI, the deadline for designating a player with a tag is March 1st. The earliest that tags can be designated is Feb. 15th.
Why let him go? Follow the organizational formula  
area junc : 1/25/2017 12:53 pm : link
We value QB, LT, DE and CB - our philosophy is to put our resources into those positions. So what's the problem? He's a dominant 2-way 43DE. Pretty much exactly what we're looking for. And we can't give him market value? Does anyone notice who is wreaking havoc in the 4th quarter when we are in our weekly crapshoot of a football game? The guy is a closer like Mo Rivera.

I'm not gonna worry about losing a Pugh, Richburg, Hankins etc. We aren't losing OBJ either. Our team gets far worse without JPP and far less difficult to play against. We should be focusing on getting 1 more pass rusher to break the camel's back and really allow Spags to get creative.
Same is true of DRC  
area junc : 1/25/2017 12:54 pm : link
Closer.

You're gonna get rid of guys like that? Ridiculous.
yeah... JPP wants "Vernon" money... 5 years 85 mil..  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 12:55 pm : link
and Jamie Collins wanted "Miller" money... 6 years 110+ mil..

Collins got 4 years 50 mil...

JPP probably gets 4 years 60 mil at best...
RE: RE: I say let him go if that's what he wants  
Mike in Philly : 1/25/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13339297 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13339293 Mike in Philly said:


Quote:


You try to make a deal, but if it's not in tbe cards you let him go and take the comp picks the following year. But i would not franchise him. You only do that if you're close on March 8th, imo.



FYI, the deadline for designating a player with a tag is March 1st. The earliest that tags can be designated is Feb. 15th.

Thanks DD for the clarification. Much appreciated.
he's twice the player of Collins  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 12:57 pm : link
Actually more.

I don't get the problem people have with a player asking for big money. All of you jackasses would do the same.

He has 2-3 opportunities to cash in. What should he be saying now? I'll take a pay cut after the good year?
RE: he's twice the player of Collins  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13339305 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Actually more.

I don't get the problem people have with a player asking for big money. All of you jackasses would do the same.

He has 2-3 opportunities to cash in. What should he be saying now? I'll take a pay cut after the good year?


How about: I'd love to stay here and hopefully we can work something out, but it is a business." Simple, to the point, non-controversial and classy..I haven't seen anything close to that since the season ended, unless I missed it..In the end, though, it atters NOT what he says
RE: The Fans are what made him  
David in LA : 1/25/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13339194 Howyadoin said:
Quote:
So we can easily dismiss and forget him. We have seen it before and we will see it again.


There's still a vocal minority that go out of their way to take shots at him. Sure, it's best to ignore, but this is not a big deal.
I think it'd a dilemma for the Giants  
Gman11 : 1/25/2017 1:11 pm : link
On the one hand, I would be awfully wary of giving him 5 years with his history of back problems.

On the other, if they let him go who's going to replace him, Okwara? He was decent, but I don't know if he's a comparable replacement.

As far as the money goes, I'll just let the Giants to decide how many they think he's worth.
BB56  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 1:15 pm : link
I don't really care what he says. He's a great player and deserves a big check. It's probably the last time he gets a monster deal.

I just don't like the fans taking shots at him. I really like what he did for NYG. I want him back but he may be too expensive. I get it but nobody here should hold it against him if he takes money. Wish him well (unless he goes to PHI of DAL)
RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13339320 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
I don't really care what he says. He's a great player and deserves a big check. It's probably the last time he gets a monster deal.

I just don't like the fans taking shots at him. I really like what he did for NYG. I want him back but he may be too expensive. I get it but nobody here should hold it against him if he takes money. Wish him well (unless he goes to PHI of DAL)


I don't like him but my focus is on a contract that will still allow him to play here AND be able to fix the O..If we can do that without being hamstrung, sign me up
I love JPP  
Rjanyg : 1/25/2017 1:23 pm : link
but lets get some things straight here:

He is not worth Vernon money. He is entering his 8th NFL season. How long a contract do you give him? He is 28 years old? Is he like Strahan who will be a very DE into his early 30's?

He does get banged up a lot. He proved he can be effective with his mangled hand so that doesn't concern me much.

I think we can sign Hankins and Jaball Sheard for the same money as JPP, maybe less and not lose a beat on D.
RE: JPP  
Giants2012 : 1/25/2017 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13339284 therealmf said:
Quote:
or possibly two quality starting FA O-lineman.

I know that is a simplification and probably won't happen but would you make that trade?


It is too simple IMO. So many what ifs

- signing him long term could prevent the signing of multiple FA OL with OBJ and Collins coming up in a few years yet eliminates drafting a DE in Round 1

- franchising him could allow the signing of multiple OL and more time to both evaluate if Owarka is his inexpensive replacement and give a #1 pick at DE a year to learn. Meanwhile, without a JPP after a year clears quite a bit to allocate towards an OBJ.

- many more scenarios can be created

Tough call b/c he does get injured yet has enough in the tank to make an impact for years.

Let's be real though. He's 28 going on 29 and the tank for both Tuck and Osi were practically empty by 31.
RE: He isn't getting that from the Giants...  
geelabee : 1/25/2017 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13339119 Torrag said:
Quote:
...nor does he deserve it. He hasn't been healthy enough and consistently productive enough to get that deal imo. But that's why they negotiate. The tag will be applied, negotiations will ensue. His contract demands will moderate or he will be traded.

What the Giants FO shouldn't do under any circumstance is let him walk away with nothing to show for it. That would be the height of stupidity. He's an asset we control the contractual rights to. You get something in return when you deal an asset.


The only people with that opinion are idiots on this board...I guarantee if Reece paid Vernon..he is paying JPP...the tape doesn't lie...JPP is a better player and more physically dominating then Vernon...I expect to see a similar offer as far as years and length...guaranteed money is another question...since Vernon has been healthier and is two years younger...JPP will see less guaranteed $$...

Agree that he needs to be franchised immediately...and should not be allowed to leave under any circumstances for 0 compensation...if the Giants offer a fair offer based on the fact that JPP is the better player...he will eventual sign
Just for the record  
Chris684 : 1/25/2017 1:32 pm : link
Someone made a claim he's only played one full season.

He played in every game in 10, 11, 12 and 14.

11 games in 2013 and 12 games in 2016.

He played in 8 games the year he blew off half of his hand.

He played 2012 through a serious back injury that needed corrective surgery.

He's pretty much been an all-pro type player any time he's been healthy. Any time he's been less than 100% he's fought through injury and still been better than many DEs in this league.

RE: he's twice the player of Collins  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13339305 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Actually more.

I don't get the problem people have with a player asking for big money. All of you jackasses would do the same.

He has 2-3 opportunities to cash in. What should he be saying now? I'll take a pay cut after the good year?


Was not comparing him to Collins at all.. The point is you can ask for 85 million, why not, like you say yourself, we would all ask for the big bucks if we were in that position.. just because you ask for 85 million doesn't mean you will get it.. bet you two fingers he takes any deal north of 60 million..

Quote:

FBI Interrogator: You prefer Corrado or Junior?

Uncle Junior: I prefer Mr. Soprano.

FBI Interrogator: Your tenure as boss was a short one. Actually, it was unusual in several ways. Let me put this to you as simply as I can. You can avoid sentencing on these charges if you will testify that in fact, you were not the boss of North Jersey, that in fact, your nephew Anthony Soprano was and is. That he de facto controlled your capos with the backing of two of the New York families communicating through their emissary, John Sacrimoni. We want Johnny Sack. But more than him, we want Mangano and Teresi.

Uncle Junior: I want to fuck Angie Dickinson, let's see who gets lucky first.
You weren't comparing him?  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:02 pm : link
You said if Collins got $50 then JPP gets $60 max.

That doesn't add up.

A player like Collins getting that chunk boosts JPPs price tag. It sure as hell doesn't hurt it or limit it to $60 million.
RE: RE: BB56  
David in LA : 1/25/2017 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13338909 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13338903 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Just out of curiosity, what did JPP do to make you hate him so much?




Where in this thread do you get that from?

What he did? He carried a truckload of explosives endangering himself and possibly others..It was stupid, irresponsible and fucked up his team. We could have used his production..We all make mistakes, I get that..We all however, don't necessarily make such egregious ones..

Oh and I thought he was very good this year..Surprised the hell,out of me..


Embellishing. You've made the specific implication that he put children in danger, actually, you just made the assumption and ran with it. You backed down, but now it seems like you're at it again that he put kids in danger.
RE: You weren't comparing him?  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13339369 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
You said if Collins got $50 then JPP gets $60 max.

That doesn't add up.

A player like Collins getting that chunk boosts JPPs price tag. It sure as hell doesn't hurt it or limit it to $60 million.


There was a "report" that Collins wanted Von Miller money..

There was a "report" that JPP wanted Oliver Vernon money..

Just because you want one thing.. doesn't mean you get one thing..

JPP is older
JPP doesn't has two less fingers than everyone else

those factor in.. not comparing his deal to Collins.. Just pointing out that just because you ask for something doesn't make it a given.
yeah... JPP wants "Vernon" money... 5 years 85 mil..  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:12 pm : link
and Jamie Collins wanted "Miller" money... 6 years 110+ mil..

Collins got 4 years 50 mil... Not Von Miller money


JPP probably gets 4 years 60 mil at best... Not OV money
I'm saying 4 years -- 60 million  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:15 pm : link
Not in any comparison to Collins's deal.

But in comparison to OV's deal.

With a year inflation factored in, with the age difference factored in, with the minus two fingers factored in 4 years 60 million is the best I think he gets in my own opinion. I feel as though it is fair as well.
est1986,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 2:16 pm : link
do you need someone to talk to? 😎
RE: est1986,  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13339387 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
do you need someone to talk to? 😎


Actually since you mentioned.. I have a friend who might not make it today, he is in the ICU at the Stamford Hospital, here in CT.. regrettably he is a huge Cowboys fan.. maybe a prayer or two from some giants fans makes the difference?
Heres the difference  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:33 pm : link
Collins isn't close to Miller. Never.

JPP was better than Vernon. He's had several years (including last year) that were better than Vernon's best. So asking for same type of money for a guy you outplayed isn't similar to a guy like Collins asking for elite money.
Defense had zero dropoff when JPP got hurt (again).  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/25/2017 2:35 pm : link
They'll make an offer, but no way he gets Vernon money from the Giants. Vernon is also younger and healthier.
Oh,  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/25/2017 2:37 pm : link
and Vernon was 2nd team All Pro, on top of all of that.
RE: Heres the difference  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13339409 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Collins isn't close to Miller. Never.

JPP was better than Vernon. He's had several years (including last year) that were better than Vernon's best. So asking for same type of money for a guy you outplayed isn't similar to a guy like Collins asking for elite money.


Vernon is younger, healthier, has two more fingers, and quite frankly became available with good timing, we had a lot of cap and we were trying to "steal" him from another team.

But you have somewhat of a point, I get it. I just don't expect it to happen.
Houston defense rose to #1 in the league  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:39 pm : link
without Watt. Clearly they are better without him.



Lets just ignore the enormous sample size used to come up with that conclusion on JPP's value.
RE: Oh,  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13339413 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
and Vernon was 2nd team All Pro, on top of all of that.


Yeah JPP made one of those his entire career in blue, OV di9d it year 1 while playing hurt the whole year, imagine him at full strength.
JPP is the superior player when compared to Vernon  
Patrick77 : 1/25/2017 2:42 pm : link
The fans trying to spin it as any other way are just trying to convince themselves otherwise.

A 31 year old 4-3 DE that IMO is slightly below JPP talentwise made 14 and 15 million dollars the last two years. Tons of teams have tons of cap space chasing very few top tier free agents this year.

JPP is making Vernon money, the only real question is which team is going to pay him and for how long.
JPP is worth Vernon money.  
Keith : 1/25/2017 2:43 pm : link
I think he should be priority #1 to the giants. Why let him go and gamble that we can find a replacement that will be half as good as JPP is, just to save some money? We are far under the cap and there are certain ways we can save more money. Plus we are paying a QB a significant amount of money that will soon be lowered by a significant amount.

It's always a gamble, but it's something we have to do. I'd offer Vernon money plus 1 year of inflation.
Vernon is an excellent player  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:43 pm : link
This is not a knock on him. JPP was better last year. So the guy asking for similar money isn't as outrageous as a guy like Collins asking for Miller money.

Available money is higher.

He's coming off a very good year and proved he can play with the fingers.

He's in his prime (despite what you hear on this board).

He plays a premium position.

It shouldn't surprise anybody if he gets Vernon type offers.

It would be fall down shocking if Collins got an offer close to Miller.


RE: Houston defense rose to #1 in the league  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13339416 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
without Watt. Clearly they are better without him.



Lets just ignore the enormous sample size used to come up with that conclusion on JPP's value.


No and fair point. But Houston's defense definitely didn't struggle without Watt. Safe to say they will be at the top again or near the top when Watt gets back because of the group around Watt.

Just proves one player doesn't make or break a unit.
RE: RE: est1986,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13339394 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339387 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


do you need someone to talk to? 😎



Actually since you mentioned.. I have a friend who might not make it today, he is in the ICU at the Stamford Hospital, here in CT.. regrettably he is a huge Cowboys fan.. maybe a prayer or two from some giants fans makes the difference?


Sent
RE: RE: RE: est1986,  
est1986 : 1/25/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13339437 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339394 est1986 said:


Quote:


In comment 13339387 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


do you need someone to talk to? 😎



Actually since you mentioned.. I have a friend who might not make it today, he is in the ICU at the Stamford Hospital, here in CT.. regrettably he is a huge Cowboys fan.. maybe a prayer or two from some giants fans makes the difference?



Sent


Truly appreciate it. Doesn't look good right now.
RE: RE: Oh,  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/25/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13339422 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339413 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


and Vernon was 2nd team All Pro, on top of all of that.



Yeah JPP made one of those his entire career in blue, OV di9d it year 1 while playing hurt the whole year, imagine him at full strength.


Exactly. And you can't put all of your resoruces in one unit of the team, especially when our offense is absolutely in need of alot of attention this off-season. If another team is dumb enough to offer JPP that much money, he should absolutely take it. Our defense was still very good, arguably better as the season went on.
A good NFL comp for JPP is Julius Peppers  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:50 pm : link
Very similar players and both underrated for their 2 way play by many.

Peppers was 2+ years older than JPP when he signed the monster deal with the Bears. That deal was $100 million with $40+ guaranteed. That was 2010.

JPP just turned 28 a week ago. He's in his prime RIGHT NOW with more cap space out there. If NFL teams don't see the hand as an injury risk, he can get the Vernon money.
The thing about HOU defense was to the guy who wrote  
KWALL2 : 1/25/2017 2:51 pm : link
Quote:
Defense had zero dropoff when JPP got hurt
I'm with Sy on this one.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/25/2017 2:53 pm : link
Let some other team give him that money.
RE: JPP  
Eman11 : 1/25/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13339284 therealmf said:
Quote:
or possibly two quality starting FA O-lineman.

I know that is a simplification and probably won't happen but would you make that trade?


Who are these two quality staring FA O linemen you speak of? We need an OT and it's not like there's a couple of Joe Thomas type guys out there. There's Leary and maybe Lang at G but I don't see any top OT's.

Personally, I don't want to weaken a strength to fix a another weakness. Yes, the OL needs help but I'd rather keep JPP and sign one OL.
For me it comes  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2017 3:34 pm : link
down to can we easily replace his production during Eli's window? Answer I think is no. Sure, we could hope for the best in the draft and hope to hit on another stud DE, but that's a crapshoot. JPP is a pro bowl level DE - we shouldn't just open the door for the guy to walk out.
I'll believe my lyin' eyes when I say that to me, the D didn't  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2017 3:46 pm : link
miss a beat when JPP went down, but they missed a fucking whole page of music when DRC went down against GB. They held Dallas and Detroit to 13 points combined without him, and shut the door on Washington fighting for a playoff spot. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE was saying how great the Defense looked in those last 5 games. And it continued until DRC went down in Green Bay and the 2ndary had to play the likes of Wade and Sensabaugh.

So yes, give JPP his due as a player and for coming back from the accident, but the Giants defensive world isn't coming to an end if he leaves.
and I'll repeat, if Spags is so fuckign great, he should be able to  
Victor in CT : 1/25/2017 3:53 pm : link
figure it out, especially if they bring back DRC and Hankins.
RE: RE: JPP  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13339457 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339284 therealmf said:


Quote:


or possibly two quality starting FA O-lineman.

I know that is a simplification and probably won't happen but would you make that trade?



Who are these two quality staring FA O linemen you speak of? We need an OT and it's not like there's a couple of Joe Thomas type guys out there. There's Leary and maybe Lang at G but I don't see any top OT's.

Personally, I don't want to weaken a strength to fix a another weakness. Yes, the OL needs help but I'd rather keep JPP and sign one OL.


Zeitler, easily the best G that might be available
The Giants were blessed this year injury wise on defense  
Patrick77 : 1/25/2017 4:02 pm : link
Next year without JPP if Vernon and DRC (or Apple/Jenkins/Collins) miss a game this defense would be worlds different is my guess.

The defense fell apart when DRC went down in the Green Bay game, but did anyone notice the Giants were getting zero pressure even when he was in the game? They got coverage sacks with Vernon and company.

The Giants need a pass rush, and even with Vernon and JPP they needed another guy on the team to bring the heat IMO. Removing JPP just means they have to pickup two more pass rushers.
RE: RE: RE: JPP  
Eman11 : 1/25/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13339585 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13339457 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 13339284 therealmf said:


Quote:


or possibly two quality starting FA O-lineman.

I know that is a simplification and probably won't happen but would you make that trade?



Who are these two quality staring FA O linemen you speak of? We need an OT and it's not like there's a couple of Joe Thomas type guys out there. There's Leary and maybe Lang at G but I don't see any top OT's.

Personally, I don't want to weaken a strength to fix a another weakness. Yes, the OL needs help but I'd rather keep JPP and sign one OL.


Zeitler, easily the best G that might be available


Ok,fine. He's the best guard. That's one OL. I'll take him and JPP.

Where are the top OT's? Because I'd rather have a top OT than OG. I'll take the guard no question, but we need an OT more IMO, and I don't see a top one out there.

I definitely don't want two OG's and no JPP. I'll take a top OG and JPP but not anything less than that quality type player. I absolutely don't want to lose JPP for a top OG and JAG OT.
RE: The Giants were blessed this year injury wise on defense  
David in LA : 1/25/2017 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13339593 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
Next year without JPP if Vernon and DRC (or Apple/Jenkins/Collins) miss a game this defense would be worlds different is my guess.

The defense fell apart when DRC went down in the Green Bay game, but did anyone notice the Giants were getting zero pressure even when he was in the game? They got coverage sacks with Vernon and company.

The Giants need a pass rush, and even with Vernon and JPP they needed another guy on the team to bring the heat IMO. Removing JPP just means they have to pickup two more pass rushers.


Bingo. People who say the defense didn't miss a beat should explain how Olivier Vernon had only 1/2 in the last 4 games without JPP.
I don't think he will get the same offer  
geemanfan : 1/25/2017 4:43 pm : link
But the one he gets from the Giants will be a big one. Maybe he winds up back with Coughlin . They made a hard push for Vernon but will they offer the same for Jpp?
Theoretically, if he leaves and TC wants to sign him as a FA,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 4:57 pm : link
what better situation could he have than Jax? He gets the money he wants, is reunited with TC albeit in a different capacity and there's NO STATE INCOME TAX..
Same people would point out,  
Doomster : 1/25/2017 5:43 pm : link
David in LA : 4:11 pm : link : reply
Bingo. People who say the defense didn't miss a beat should explain how Olivier Vernon had only 1/2 in the last 4 games without JPP.

That JPP played first 9 games with only 1.5 sacks, and 7 of those games did not have a sack...

Sorry, I don't think he should get Vernon money.....but there will be some GM who might think that....if it happens, then you let him go....and then count the number of games he misses the next 5 years...
As for Vernon,  
Doomster : 1/25/2017 5:45 pm : link
he was in the right place at the right time, because he was overpaid.....fact is, he missed quite a few sacks he should have had this year....
RE: Theoretically, if he leaves and TC wants to sign him as a FA,  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13339656 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
what better situation could he have than Jax? He gets the money he wants, is reunited with TC albeit in a different capacity and there's NO STATE INCOME TAX..


Well, its nice to..you know..win every now and then as well
RE: RE: Theoretically, if he leaves and TC wants to sign him as a FA,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13339729 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13339656 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


what better situation could he have than Jax? He gets the money he wants, is reunited with TC albeit in a different capacity and there's NO STATE INCOME TAX..



Well, its nice to..you know..win every now and then as well


Googs, what do you think JPP cares about more?
Yeah, I know $$$. Just saying JPP is going to have his pick of  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 6:19 pm : link
several suitors, so I wouldn't be running to JAX or CLEV if you know what I mean.

All things being equal...


RE: Yeah, I know $$$. Just saying JPP is going to have his pick of  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13339767 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
several suitors, so I wouldn't be running to JAX or CLEV if you know what I mean.

All things being equal...



Who else would have the (projected) dollars it would take to sign him, iyo?
Maybe Colts, Titans even though I think they run 3-4 defenses  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 6:31 pm : link
or maybe the Bucs.

I don't think your view of JAX is a bad thought either. JPP is a Florida guy, right?

RE: Maybe Colts, Titans even though I think they run 3-4 defenses  
Big Blue '56 : 1/25/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13339782 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
or maybe the Bucs.

I don't think your view of JAX is a bad thought either. JPP is a Florida guy, right?


Yes..I think he went to the University of Southern Florida..Before him, I had never heard of it before and I lived in Boca for 10 years..😎
give him 85 mil  
fkap : 1/25/2017 7:09 pm : link
just keep the guaranteed at a reasonable number and structure it so you can ditch him in 2 or 3 years if his production doesn't hold up.

the guaranteed is most of what matters.
RE: give him 85 mil  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 7:22 pm : link
In comment 13339818 fkap said:
Quote:
just keep the guaranteed at a reasonable number and structure it so you can ditch him in 2 or 3 years if his production doesn't hold up.

the guaranteed is most of what matters.


Don't disagree, but he is going to get some whopper offers. We won't be able to keep it reasonable...
Would love him back.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/25/2017 7:55 pm : link
But I fear some team is going to throw insane $ @ him & that'll be that.
Give him as much as you can  
3putt : 1/25/2017 8:28 pm : link
while not disturbing your ability to get as many other good players as you can.

Love the player but not at the expense of the sweater.
RE: Maybe Colts, Titans even though I think they run 3-4 defenses  
David in LA : 1/25/2017 8:40 pm : link
In comment 13339782 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
or maybe the Bucs.

I don't think your view of JAX is a bad thought either. JPP is a Florida guy, right?

Southern Florida is an entirely different beast than Jax. State tax and Coughlin might be reasons for him to go there, but Jacksonville isn't exactly Miami or even Tampa when it comes to cities anybody would like to live in in that state.
RE: Would love him back.  
Eman11 : 1/25/2017 8:44 pm : link
In comment 13339854 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But I fear some team is going to throw insane $ @ him & that'll be that.


Which is why they should slap the franchise tag on him if they can't get a deal done before FA hits. It'll buy them time to see what the market is as well as more time to work on a deal both sides are comfortable with.

RE: RE: Maybe Colts, Titans even though I think they run 3-4 defenses  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13339888 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13339782 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


or maybe the Bucs.

I don't think your view of JAX is a bad thought either. JPP is a Florida guy, right?



Southern Florida is an entirely different beast than Jax. State tax and Coughlin might be reasons for him to go there, but Jacksonville isn't exactly Miami or even Tampa when it comes to cities anybody would like to live in in that state.


Yeah, well despite this sound thinking, people indeed do live in the Jacksonville area.

In fact, I vacation every year in the Ponte Vedra Beach area just south of the city of JAX, and really enjoy it. Beach, golf and good weather year round that is not always stifling like south Florida.

but whatever...

RE: RE: RE: Maybe Colts, Titans even though I think they run 3-4 defenses  
Diver_Down : 1/25/2017 10:00 pm : link
In comment 13339939 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13339888 David in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 13339782 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


or maybe the Bucs.

I don't think your view of JAX is a bad thought either. JPP is a Florida guy, right?



Southern Florida is an entirely different beast than Jax. State tax and Coughlin might be reasons for him to go there, but Jacksonville isn't exactly Miami or even Tampa when it comes to cities anybody would like to live in in that state.



Yeah, well despite this sound thinking, people indeed do live in the Jacksonville area.

In fact, I vacation every year in the Ponte Vedra Beach area just south of the city of JAX, and really enjoy it. Beach, golf and good weather year round that is not always stifling like south Florida.

but whatever...


Shhh! No need to advertise the First Coast. Those that know don't need convincing. I love living in St. Augustine.
Agree DD...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2017 10:10 pm : link
:-)

I don't think that the philosophy behind robbing the defense of a  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 1/26/2017 3:48 am : link
known great playmaker with the intention of transferring that level of talent to the offense is sound. For the loss of one of your best players on a championship caliber defense you are just getting uncertainty.

If the Giants should turn JPP into some high draft choices, nobody here has to be told of the uncertainty of the draft, even if you should land the 9th overall pick.

Lots of expensive free agents fail with their new team. They are leaving the coach and teammates under which they played their best football. Even if they adjust to their new environment, and escape injuries that would set them back, they still need need playing time to get used to playing with their new teammates.

JPP, unfortunately, looks like he might go to the highest bidder, even just to show off to his doubters how far he's come. The trophy effect. That would be shallow. Much better for him to stay with the team who got him where he is and which is on the upswing again. If you have two great defensive ends and you lose one of them, that has to make life more difficult for the other. You can't double team both ends.

And JPP might not look so great to a new team where he wasn't playing on a line with Vernon and Snacks.
Free Agency is clearly more about dollars than fit so not sure  
Jimmy Googs : 1/26/2017 7:44 am : link
most of what you said rings true when the market starts creating offers. Not unfair, but not really true.

And you are correct, there would be uncertainty in putting new players on the Offense versus sticking with the more-certain JPP on defense. But there is no uncertainty in that the Offense does indeed need help...much like the Defense did last year.

How did that turn out?
For those who are cap savvy (and yes, your opinions would be  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 10:47 am : link
speculative of course), how can we work out an expensive contract with JPP that will be reasonably cap friendly with amortization AND where we'll be able to part ways either secondary to injury issues/lack of production or whatever, without dead money killing us? How would you do it or how do you believe the Giants might do it?
RE: For those who are cap savvy (and yes, your opinions would be  
area junc : 1/26/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13340318 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
speculative of course), how can we work out an expensive contract with JPP that will be reasonably cap friendly with amortization AND where we'll be able to part ways either secondary to injury issues/lack of production or whatever, without dead money killing us? How would you do it or how do you believe the Giants might do it?



Look at the way the OV contract is structured: cap hit of $13, $16, $17M the first 3 years. The last 2 years almost $20M. But after those first 3 years they can be cut or restructured based on current performance- you rarely see a guy play out a 5 year deal.

Paying 13/16/17 to JPP for the next 3 years sounds fair to me. He's an elite DE and that's what they're worth, and we put a premium on the position systemically. so it makes sense
RE: RE: For those who are cap savvy (and yes, your opinions would be  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13340340 area junc said:
Quote:
In comment 13340318 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


speculative of course), how can we work out an expensive contract with JPP that will be reasonably cap friendly with amortization AND where we'll be able to part ways either secondary to injury issues/lack of production or whatever, without dead money killing us? How would you do it or how do you believe the Giants might do it?




Look at the way the OV contract is structured: cap hit of $13, $16, $17M the first 3 years. The last 2 years almost $20M. But after those first 3 years they can be cut or restructured based on current performance- you rarely see a guy play out a 5 year deal.

Paying 13/16/17 to JPP for the next 3 years sounds fair to me. He's an elite DE and that's what they're worth, and we put a premium on the position systemically. so it makes sense


If what you say is accurate, I could live with that..I think..😎
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