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For those that want a new OC, Tom Clements leaving Packers

Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 12:15 pm
He was their QB Coach from 2006-2011, their offensive coordinator from 2012-2014, and their assistant head coach with play calling responsibility 2015-2016.

McAdoo coached TE's with him from 2006-2011, and then was the QB coach while Clements was OC.
Might be a good get, but McCarthy apparently  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 12:24 pm : link
became disenchanted enough with their O production, that he took over once again the PC responsibilities..I don't know if that speaks to MM's ego or Clements' O not getting the job done
His contract  
Larry in Pencilvania : 1/26/2017 12:26 pm : link
Expired
RE: His contract  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13340505 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
Expired


Not referring to that. My statement about MM's ego or his disenchantment refers to when he took over the PC in '15 from Clements when he was still under contract
Or was it this year that MM took over PC?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 12:33 pm : link
.
RE: Or was it this year that MM took over PC?  
OdellBeckhamJr : 1/26/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13340518 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


Pretty sure that was last year (2015)
Very  
mattlawson : 1/26/2017 12:38 pm : link
Interesting
What makes him better than Sullivan?  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/26/2017 12:39 pm : link
.
Not sure ...  
Beer Man : 1/26/2017 12:40 pm : link
I look at the 2016 OC a lot like the 2015 DC (Spags). In 2015 the Giants had the worst D in the league, and there were many calling for Spag's head. However, as we all know, the 2015 Giants D was extremely lacking in talent. Fast forward one year, give Spags some talent to work with, and suddenly we have championship level D. I see the same with the 2016 O. One of the worst performing Os in the league, but also lacking NFL starting caliber players in a number of positions (i.e., RT, RG, LT, TE, no FB). I can't say if Mike Sullivan is the answer at OC, but before the team hangs him, I think they need to give him more talent to work with and see what he and Eli cam do with it. Just my opinion.
RE: What makes him better than Sullivan?  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13340528 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
.


Don't know, other than familiarity with what McAdoo wants to run, if he is in fact running the Green Bay offense.
No offense to the older  
Joey in VA : 1/26/2017 12:44 pm : link
But 63? Unless you're Dick LeBeau or Wade Phillips or someone with a great track record, I'd go younger.
RE: No offense to the older  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13340537 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
But 63? Unless you're Dick LeBeau or Wade Phillips or someone with a great track record, I'd go younger.


I work with a Wisconsin native and big GB fan - you could substitute 'Clements' for 'Gilbride' and you have exactly their sentiments - older, game has passed them by, doesn't adjust to different personnel well enough, can't relate to the younger players, not innovative enough, etc.
I don't understand people seeking a new OC. It's one thing to  
yatqb : 1/26/2017 1:24 pm : link
want a more diverse and effective offense, it's another to know, from the outside, that Sullivan was at fault for last year's horrid offensive production (particularly with a HC who called the plays and who certainly had the primary input into designing the offense).

I think if we get more talent (OL and receivers) we'll see more creativity from McAdoo.
I'm not advocating for a new OC, personally....  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 1:26 pm : link
I have yet to see definitive proof that our current OC actually has a major influence on anything, and if McAdoo is going to continue to call the plays, well...

However, McAdoo did try to hire Joe Philbin in some capacity last offseason, so perhaps he will try to hire more people that are familiar with the McCarthy system to help out.
RE: I don't understand people seeking a new OC. It's one thing to  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13340619 yatqb said:
Quote:
want a more diverse and effective offense, it's another to know, from the outside, that Sullivan was at fault for last year's horrid offensive production (particularly with a HC who called the plays and who certainly had the primary input into designing the offense).

I think if we get more talent (OL and receivers) we'll see more creativity from McAdoo.


I would like to see another OC - and in fairness, I never wanted to see Mike Sullivan as OC. I don't think he's earned it, to be honest. He went to Tampa and stunk there, and even as QB coach (of Eli during his prime years) his impact was questionable, seeming to be only a year of carry over from Chris Palmer.

Part of the problem IMO is McAdoo trying to do too much, first time HC calling offensive plays. I don't know how much of that falls on to Sullivan directly, but I'm hoping that McAdoo might reconsider if he had someone more familiar/capable of running his system.
RE: RE: I don't understand people seeking a new OC. It's one thing to  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13340642 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13340619 yatqb said:


Quote:


want a more diverse and effective offense, it's another to know, from the outside, that Sullivan was at fault for last year's horrid offensive production (particularly with a HC who called the plays and who certainly had the primary input into designing the offense).

I think if we get more talent (OL and receivers) we'll see more creativity from McAdoo.



I would like to see another OC - and in fairness, I never wanted to see Mike Sullivan as OC. I don't think he's earned it, to be honest. He went to Tampa and stunk there, and even as QB coach (of Eli during his prime years) his impact was questionable, seeming to be only a year of carry over from Chris Palmer.

Part of the problem IMO is McAdoo trying to do too much, first time HC calling offensive plays. I don't know how much of that falls on to Sullivan directly, but I'm hoping that McAdoo might reconsider if he had someone more familiar/capable of running his system.


This is inaccurate, and revisionist history that I see posted here a lot.
I would have no problem with McAdoo continuing PC-ing,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2017 1:39 pm : link
if he called the O as he had the two years before. That's assuming what prevented him from possibly doing so was the talent dilemma on O and/or the vastly improved D..Payton, McCarthy and a bunch others do fine with being HCs and calling plays..Spags is capable of running things on the opposite side of the ball, imv
Inaccurate sounds like you've got proof  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 1:40 pm : link
Let me know when it's coming.

In the meanwhile, have a read and see if you don't hear a few things that rhyme.
http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/1/1/5253078/mike-sullivan-retrospective - ( New Window )
Never hurts to have a guy like Clements  
shelovesnycsports : 1/26/2017 1:41 pm : link
Up in the booth reading defenses and helping Eli and Mac attack weaknesses. At this stage he won't need the OC title since Sully is a Mara cronie. Mac Calls the plays so bringing on veteran pair of eyes is wise decision.
RE: Inaccurate sounds like you've got proof  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13340657 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Let me know when it's coming.

In the meanwhile, have a read and see if you don't hear a few things that rhyme. http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/1/1/5253078/mike-sullivan-retrospective - ( New Window )


Context.

Sullivan only served as an Offensive Coordinator for 2 seasons with Tampa Bay, both under Greg Schiano (also his only two years as head coach).

2012:

The team set a franchise record with 5,820 yards of total offense and 389 total points scored. Good for 13th in the NFL. The previous season, 2011, they were ranked 32nd in the NFL in offense.

Josh Freeman threw for over 4000 yards, 27 TD's, with 17 INT's. Josh Freeman! The guy has never had another season like it.

Doug Martin ran for nearly 1500 yards and 11 TD's.

2013:

Here is where he gets the bad rap, but I went back and wanted to look at what happened. Let's try to remember a couple of things that were happening here, instead of just looking at the final result, which I myself did not remember until I went back and looked.

First off, in only his second year, Schiano was already wearing out his welcome and the lockerroom was deteriorating.

The MRSA outbreak that ended Lawrence Tynes career happened during training camp.

A rift opened between Schiano and Freeman during training camp, where Schiano was accused of rigging the voting for team captains, which prevented Freeman becoming a captain. The next day, Freeman skipped the team photo session and blamed it on "oversleeping". Freeman was benched three games into the regular season and accused of quitting on the team because of the situation with Schiano.

Doug Martin went on injured reserve after 6 games.

However, 3rd round pick Mike Glennon then came in for the final 13 games and set franchise rookie quarterback records for the Bucs, throwing for 2600 yards, 19 TD's, and only 9 INT's.

Despite that, The team regressed back to 32nd in the league in offense, which is what they were two years prior, the year before Sullivan took over as OC. Schiano and his entire staff were fired at the end of the season. So it wasn't like they had a good thing in place and said "Sullivan is responsible for this, let's fire him and get a new guy in here". The entire staff was fired. After a year off, Sullivan came back to the Giants in the role of Quarterback Coach and many were happy to have him, citing his successful experience as a coordinator (on BBI he was considered to have gotten a raw deal because of Schiano), and his work with Eli Manning in the same capacity in 2010-2011.

Now where's yours?
Mine is up on Pro Football Reference  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 1:57 pm : link
where you can have a look at how awesome that 2012 Bucs offense was - and whom. Mostly garbage time catchup performances like the one against us where Eli threw for 500 yards.

The next season the wheels completely fell off. Granted, the whole Schiano regime was coming apart, but aside from getting a good year out of Freeman against powerhouses like the 2-14 Chiefs or the 4-12 Raiders, he's not notable for doing anything positive there.

The team should be looking to improve everywhere, and that should include OC.
Sullivan takes a beating here, because people don't really know  
David in LA : 1/26/2017 1:59 pm : link
what the scope of his responsibilities are around here. My guess is that he has input on the gameplanning, but my only complaint is that he doesn't seem like an ideal fit for that. Between games, a lot depends on the communication between McAdoo and Sullivan, and McAdoo and Spags. My preference would be to find someone who has a stronger background in the WCO, who is a true WCO guru. IMO having different philosophies in the meeting room can at times lead to an offense looking as disconnected as we looked.
RE: Mine is up on Pro Football Reference  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13340694 jcn56 said:
Quote:
where you can have a look at how awesome that 2012 Bucs offense was - and whom. Mostly garbage time catchup performances like the one against us where Eli threw for 500 yards.

The next season the wheels completely fell off. Granted, the whole Schiano regime was coming apart, but aside from getting a good year out of Freeman against powerhouses like the 2-14 Chiefs or the 4-12 Raiders, he's not notable for doing anything positive there.

The team should be looking to improve everywhere, and that should include OC.


You mean the game where the Giants had to score 25 points in the 4th quarter to come back and win it after being down 27-16 going into the 4th? That garbage time?

Yeah, Eli threw for 500 yards.

The 2012 Bucs finished with the league's worst passing defense, allowing 4,758 yards (297 yard/game). That's on Sullivan how?
and honestly  
David in LA : 1/26/2017 2:01 pm : link
what do we have to lose if we part ways with Sullivan? If there are better options available, we should take a look at a candidate if we think he is a better fit.
RE: and honestly  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13340701 David in LA said:
Quote:
what do we have to lose if we part ways with Sullivan? If there are better options available, we should take a look at a candidate if we think he is a better fit.


Nothing really. If McAdoo is calling the plays he's the main guy. Only McAdoo knows what we really need. If he's happy with Sullivan, there will be no changes. That's all that really matters.
Yeah, not quite garbage time  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 2:06 pm : link
but Eli handed them that game with 3 INTs - and they still lost.

No, the terrible defense wasn't on Sullivan - but it sure gave him the stage for a decent offensive performance (just being +3 in TO at the half should have meant a win if they were as impressive as you're implying).

They fattened up against shitty teams, and the next season just completely shit the bed.

Does that mean Sullivan is a terrible OC? Maybe not - but he doesn't have the track record that you'd want before hiring him, and his offense this past season was AWFUL. If you want to write him a pass because BM called the plays, fine - but we're still left asking why the hell he deserves to remain in his job based on his past production.
As HC, McAdoo is taking on much more responsibility  
David in LA : 1/26/2017 2:09 pm : link
and probably spreading himself thin being in charge of playcalling. He's learning on the go. I recall an interview with Spags, and how they work hand in hand. Spags said he'd think of some new ideas for gameplanning, and run down the hall to talk about it with McAdoo. That type of, and I hate to use this word, synergy is very important. It is telling that the first choice was Philbin, who McAdoo has worked with IMO.
Here's my problem....  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:11 pm : link
Quote:
and his offense this past season was AWFUL.


How can you call it Sullivan's offense? It's Ben McAdoo's design, yes? Ben McAdoo called the plays, yes?

I'm sorry, but you (and others) just have absolutely zero proof whatsoever other than wild speculation that Sullivan is responsible for our offense this season.

Everything I posted above is factual, and I don't think can be disputed, because it actually happened.

We have zero proof of what Sullivan actually contributed this year.

If you want to say you want an OC that's more likeminded to McAdoo based on system, and that Sullivan is a square peg in a round hole coming from the Coughlin/Gilbride offense, then that's fair.

But to say the guy stunk and was awful with out actually having any clue what he does is not fair.
RE: No offense to the older  
HomerJones45 : 1/26/2017 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13340537 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
But 63? Unless you're Dick LeBeau or Wade Phillips or someone with a great track record, I'd go younger.
As he proceeds to offend the "older." Yeah, let's put some child in the position and watch him flail around until he learns his ass from his elbow. No offense to the younger.
I am willing to see....  
BillKo : 1/26/2017 2:27 pm : link
what we add in the draft/FA, and if things change next year.

In other words, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

With more weapons, the playbook opens up. Plus the HC will have a year of experience under is belt that should serve him well.

There's no question we need to upgrade a few spots............
RE: Here's my problem....  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 2:44 pm : link
In comment 13340730 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Quote:


and his offense this past season was AWFUL.



How can you call it Sullivan's offense? It's Ben McAdoo's design, yes? Ben McAdoo called the plays, yes?

I'm sorry, but you (and others) just have absolutely zero proof whatsoever other than wild speculation that Sullivan is responsible for our offense this season.

Everything I posted above is factual, and I don't think can be disputed, because it actually happened.

We have zero proof of what Sullivan actually contributed this year.

If you want to say you want an OC that's more likeminded to McAdoo based on system, and that Sullivan is a square peg in a round hole coming from the Coughlin/Gilbride offense, then that's fair.

But to say the guy stunk and was awful with out actually having any clue what he does is not fair.


You're making my case for me then - replacing him could only have a net positive effect.

If we believe he contributed near zero, then replacing him will make no difference.

If he contributed, the results were less than optimal - then replacing him will be a positive.

For the record, my opinion is that he didn't contribute much. I don't think that the offense bit the dust because he was the OC. In fact, right around the bye I suggested that it was time to hand over playcalling to Sullivan to see exactly *what* he offered, to see if the offense would improve or decline if someone else called the plays.

I still get the impression that the Giants FO (Reese, Mara or whomever) was high on Sullivan's coaching ability, and that's why he's here. And I think the fact that a first year coach is calling plays instead of leaning on his OC more suggests that maybe he doesn't have his confidence.
I don't believe anything.  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:46 pm : link
I don't know is the more accurate statement.
I don't believe that part of the car engine does anything...  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:51 pm : link
so hypothetically, it shouldn't hurt if I remove it, right?
Wouldn't even think of hiring this guy  
Rflairr : 1/26/2017 2:51 pm : link
With Norv still out there
RE: I don't believe that part of the car engine does anything...  
jcn56 : 1/26/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13340783 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
so hypothetically, it shouldn't hurt if I remove it, right?


If I'm replacing it with another part that is supposed to perform the same function, would you notice?
This is silly at this point.  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 2:54 pm : link
I've stated my case.
.  
Go Terps : 1/26/2017 3:03 pm : link
The offense sucked because the players sucked.
RE: Sullivan takes a beating here, because people don't really know  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/26/2017 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13340697 David in LA said:
Quote:
what the scope of his responsibilities are around here. My guess is that he has input on the gameplanning, but my only complaint is that he doesn't seem like an ideal fit for that. Between games, a lot depends on the communication between McAdoo and Sullivan, and McAdoo and Spags. My preference would be to find someone who has a stronger background in the WCO, who is a true WCO guru. IMO having different philosophies in the meeting room can at times lead to an offense looking as disconnected as we looked.


Your first statement is he crux of the issue. None of us know what exactly he does. What we do know is that he didn't design this version of the WCO. He certainly doesn't have final say over personel.

I've said it here before and people go ape shit but McAdoo is not a hugely qualified or experienced play caller or OC. He also was was never a HC before. Argue the results but we are no site thing to repeat 11 wins.

We also have no idea if he would have let a much more experienced guy at OC call the plays. And to be honest why are differing views bad? I believe you are a jewler. In my career in medicine and medical sales I see people whose views very often differ. It's never a bad idea to discuss things as long as everyone is on board in he end. Heck w their OL even the most devoted old Pro style OC wouldn't be campaigning for more 5 step drops.

There are issues w this offense. Some of it is personel but WCO scheme use all of the same groupings as the old. Pro-set. I blame the HC for not asking for a blocking TE, FB or using a 3rd OT as a a blocking TE. all of that is on him not on Sullivan. Reese is also the one who shit the bed on the OL for 4 years now. They fixed a lot last off season on D. McAdoo gets another year but if the OL gets reinforcements and some more tallent on O and things still suck those two years of great stats but under 500 records they need to be put into a different context

The Stats were great but wins are what really matter. Big offseason for him and Reese. As big as last season imo. Eli doesn't have more than a few years left. This team will morph into the Jets of Reese and McAdoo can't get the O fixed
RE: RE: Sullivan takes a beating here, because people don't really know  
shelovesnycsports : 1/26/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13340831 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13340697 David in LA said:


Quote:


what the scope of his responsibilities are around here. My guess is that he has input on the gameplanning, but my only complaint is that he doesn't seem like an ideal fit for that. Between games, a lot depends on the communication between McAdoo and Sullivan, and McAdoo and Spags. My preference would be to find someone who has a stronger background in the WCO, who is a true WCO guru. IMO having different philosophies in the meeting room can at times lead to an offense looking as disconnected as we looked.



Your first statement is he crux of the issue. None of us know what exactly he does. What we do know is that he didn't design this version of the WCO. He certainly doesn't have final say over personel.

I've said it here before and people go ape shit but McAdoo is not a hugely qualified or experienced play caller or OC. He also was was never a HC before. Argue the results but we are no site thing to repeat 11 wins.

We also have no idea if he would have let a much more experienced guy at OC call the plays. And to be honest why are differing views bad? I believe you are a jewler. In my career in medicine and medical sales I see people whose views very often differ. It's never a bad idea to discuss things as long as everyone is on board in he end. Heck w their OL even the most devoted old Pro style OC wouldn't be campaigning for more 5 step drops.

There are issues w this offense. Some of it is personel but WCO scheme use all of the same groupings as the old. Pro-set. I blame the HC for not asking for a blocking TE, FB or using a 3rd OT as a a blocking TE. all of that is on him not on Sullivan. Reese is also the one who shit the bed on the OL for 4 years now. They fixed a lot last off season on D. McAdoo gets another year but if the OL gets reinforcements and some more tallent on O and things still suck those two years of great stats but under 500 records they need to be put into a different context

The Stats were great but wins are what really matter. Big offseason for him and Reese. As big as last season imo. Eli doesn't have more than a few years left. This team will morph into the Jets of Reese and McAdoo can't get the O fixed


Gets another year?
Wow ! because winning 11 games in NYC is not hard enough?
You batter get used to Mac he is going to be here a long time.
RE: Mine is up on Pro Football Reference  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/26/2017 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13340694 jcn56 said:
Quote:
where you can have a look at how awesome that 2012 Bucs offense was - and whom. Mostly garbage time catchup performances like the one against us where Eli threw for 500 yards.

The next season the wheels completely fell off. Granted, the whole Schiano regime was coming apart, but aside from getting a good year out of Freeman against powerhouses like the 2-14 Chiefs or the 4-12 Raiders, he's not notable for doing anything positive there.

The team should be looking to improve everywhere, and that should include OC.


+1
Matty, different points of view are always welcome  
David in LA : 1/26/2017 3:57 pm : link
however, when trying to install an offense, and teach and develop the roster, I think it's best that everyone is on the same page with concepts, terminology, etc. I'd be very open to see someone that might know more about the WCO than McAdoo to take a load off of his plate. IMO we took a step back on offense, because of a) talent b) too many cooks in the kitchen c) OL regressed learning new technique/or Solari is not a good fit with what we currently have.
RE: Matty, different points of view are always welcome  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/26/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13340876 David in LA said:
Quote:
however, when trying to install an offense, and teach and develop the roster, I think it's best that everyone is on the same page with concepts, terminology, etc. I'd be very open to see someone that might know more about the WCO than McAdoo to take a load off of his plate. IMO we took a step back on offense, because of a) talent b) too many cooks in the kitchen c) OL regressed learning new technique/or Solari is not a good fit with what we currently have.


Well I think we all agree the talent needs an upgrad. My biggest issue is that the two areas that I know McAdoo owns are play calling and roster.

He's the guy who ran the same personel grouping almost exclusively. He's the guy who refused to add a FB or a blocking TE. Maye Josh Johnson was a hedge against Nassib leaving but he can leave too. How do u keep a 3rd QB over those two positions which are the biggest structural and roster differences between the offense this year and last. I'm not sold on this guy from an X amd O perspective. He very well be a better HC vs OC. we all k ow the O regressed and IMO was a bad as last years D. It was painful. 11 wins was a bit of a miracle. Big offseason. I have. O issue w can in Sullivan if they can bring in a more WCO guy. But again. W I'll McAdoo cede control to that guy?
In this system of Offense  
shelovesnycsports : 1/26/2017 4:39 pm : link
Mac calls in the play or plays he thinks will be successful.
Eli then looks at the defense and uses the play or variance that he believes is the best to succeed.

So if you guys want to blame the bad offence showing on the play calling you might as well just blame Eli!

This whole offense is based on taking what the defense gives you. dink and dunk down the field. Rodgers and GreenBay show you how great it can be with the right players. Mac will get there but it takes time to build.
RE: Not sure ...  
SHO'NUFF : 1/26/2017 7:06 pm : link
In comment 13340530 Beer Man said:
Quote:
I look at the 2016 OC a lot like the 2015 DC (Spags). In 2015 the Giants had the worst D in the league, and there were many calling for Spag's head. However, as we all know, the 2015 Giants D was extremely lacking in talent. Fast forward one year, give Spags some talent to work with, and suddenly we have championship level D. I see the same with the 2016 O. One of the worst performing Os in the league, but also lacking NFL starting caliber players in a number of positions (i.e., RT, RG, LT, TE, no FB). I can't say if Mike Sullivan is the answer at OC, but before the team hangs him, I think they need to give him more talent to work with and see what he and Eli cam do with it. Just my opinion.


The difference is we had a decent offense in 2015 with roughly the same personnel and no Mike Sullivan.
RE: RE: Not sure ...  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 7:23 pm : link
In comment 13341096 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 13340530 Beer Man said:


Quote:


I look at the 2016 OC a lot like the 2015 DC (Spags). In 2015 the Giants had the worst D in the league, and there were many calling for Spag's head. However, as we all know, the 2015 Giants D was extremely lacking in talent. Fast forward one year, give Spags some talent to work with, and suddenly we have championship level D. I see the same with the 2016 O. One of the worst performing Os in the league, but also lacking NFL starting caliber players in a number of positions (i.e., RT, RG, LT, TE, no FB). I can't say if Mike Sullivan is the answer at OC, but before the team hangs him, I think they need to give him more talent to work with and see what he and Eli cam do with it. Just my opinion.



The difference is we had a decent offense in 2015 with roughly the same personnel and no Mike Sullivan.


Mike Sullivan was on the staff last year.
Last year:  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 7:24 pm : link
Tom Coughlin HC
Ben McAdoo OC
Mike Sullivan QB

This year:

Ben McAdoo HC but maintained playcalling ability
Mike Sullivan OC
Britt, you could make the argument that Sullivan  
David in LA : 1/26/2017 7:33 pm : link
is a better QB's coach than he is OC. I don't think we can just look at last year's staff between who's the HC, OC, and DC and be able to pinpoint what went wrong with the offense this year. It could be the new position coaches or players going through a learning curve with the new position coaches and techniques they are using. It's fun to speculate, but at the end of the day, no one on the board knows exactly where the disconnect is.
I just don't know.  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2017 7:53 pm : link
At this point, I trust McAdoo's judgement because I don't know what Sullivan does. If McAdoo feels there is a problem, he'll make a change. I guess we'll see.
RE: In this system of Offense  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/27/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13340938 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
Mac calls in the play or plays he thinks will be successful.
Eli then looks at the defense and uses the play or variance that he believes is the best to succeed.

So if you guys want to blame the bad offence showing on the play calling you might as well just blame Eli!

This whole offense is based on taking what the defense gives you. dink and dunk down the field. Rodgers and GreenBay show you how great it can be with the right players. Mac will get there but it takes time to build.


Eli can't pull a FB or blocking TE out of his ass if the D has a beed in what they are doing. But don't let the facts of the scheme
And structure of the Onconfuse you. Also we don't know how often Eli is changng the play. Nor if a player misses an assignment.

But carry on. McAdoo is obviously never
To blame. I get it now.
RE: RE: RE: Sullivan takes a beating here, because people don't really know  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/27/2017 7:59 am : link
In comment 13340835 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
In comment 13340831 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 13340697 David in LA said:


Quote:


what the scope of his responsibilities are around here. My guess is that he has input on the gameplanning, but my only complaint is that he doesn't seem like an ideal fit for that. Between games, a lot depends on the communication between McAdoo and Sullivan, and McAdoo and Spags. My preference would be to find someone who has a stronger background in the WCO, who is a true WCO guru. IMO having different philosophies in the meeting room can at times lead to an offense looking as disconnected as we looked.



Your first statement is he crux of the issue. None of us know what exactly he does. What we do know is that he didn't design this version of the WCO. He certainly doesn't have final say over personel.

I've said it here before and people go ape shit but McAdoo is not a hugely qualified or experienced play caller or OC. He also was was never a HC before. Argue the results but we are no site thing to repeat 11 wins.

We also have no idea if he would have let a much more experienced guy at OC call the plays. And to be honest why are differing views bad? I believe you are a jewler. In my career in medicine and medical sales I see people whose views very often differ. It's never a bad idea to discuss things as long as everyone is on board in he end. Heck w their OL even the most devoted old Pro style OC wouldn't be campaigning for more 5 step drops.

There are issues w this offense. Some of it is personel but WCO scheme use all of the same groupings as the old. Pro-set. I blame the HC for not asking for a blocking TE, FB or using a 3rd OT as a a blocking TE. all of that is on him not on Sullivan. Reese is also the one who shit the bed on the OL for 4 years now. They fixed a lot last off season on D. McAdoo gets another year but if the OL gets reinforcements and some more tallent on O and things still suck those two years of great stats but under 500 records they need to be put into a different context

The Stats were great but wins are what really matter. Big offseason for him and Reese. As big as last season imo. Eli doesn't have more than a few years left. This team will morph into the Jets of Reese and McAdoo can't get the O fixed



Gets another year?
Wow ! because winning 11 games in NYC is not hard enough?
You batter get used to Mac he is going to be here a long time.


Yes. Spags
And the D won 11 games and dragged him
And his sandwich board along. Dude is charmed. Please. Tell me what Inlut he had a the D. You seem to know A lot. Except about football. Sadly hat doesn't stop you from posting
RE: RE: Mine is up on Pro Football Reference  
GMen23 : 1/27/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13340837 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13340694 jcn56 said:


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where you can have a look at how awesome that 2012 Bucs offense was - and whom. Mostly garbage time catchup performances like the one against us where Eli threw for 500 yards.

The next season the wheels completely fell off. Granted, the whole Schiano regime was coming apart, but aside from getting a good year out of Freeman against powerhouses like the 2-14 Chiefs or the 4-12 Raiders, he's not notable for doing anything positive there.

The team should be looking to improve everywhere, and that should include OC.



+1

Call me +2
Not knocking 11-5, or which coach could have performed better with this Offensive Line, lack of dynamic playmakers besides Odell (and his first dropsy season), but do you

think when Coughlin or Reese hired McAdoo, if Clements was available, they would not of hired him first?

If McAdoo has the balls and inner confidence to hire his former first line Superior, to be on his first line of Coaches down, more power to him. I'm all for it.
RE: What makes him better than Sullivan?  
trueblueinpw : 1/27/2017 4:02 pm : link
In comment 13340528 Ron Johnson 30 said:
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His pulse?
Back to the Corner