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Long-time NFL agent Pat Dye Jr., the representative for Bengals left tackle Andrew Whitworth, has traded e-mails with Bengals vice president Troy Blackburn and the two have agreed to touch base regarding a deal for Whitworth next week when Dye gets back from watching five of his clients at the Pro Bowl. Whitworth is one of them, and Dye said after Wednesday’s South practice that he can only reiterate what his client told the media as he went into free agency after the season. “He’s played his whole career there and it would be cool to finish his career there. We’ll see,” Dye said. “There’s a lot of ground to cover between now and March the ninth when free agency begins.” “We’ve got a lot of history with the organization. We get along well with the Brown family and Blackburn family. There’s a little bit of a kindred spirit since we’re both with football families.” … |
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Not many teams will be willing to throw big-money deals toward a lineman who is 35 and will turn 36 during the 2017 NFL season. But, Whitworth still offers a lot of value to the Bengals and remains one of the game’s best players at his position. |
My mentality has been and will continue to be that there needs to be competition. If Flowers wins the job because he truly beat out a worthy opponent then fucking great. That has yet to happen the last years. Reese himself said the goal of free agency is to try to fill all your holes so you can draft for the best player available. That has not happened recently. In Reese's defense, although it is a group effort, the last 2 drafts have been a big improvement. So, we are tending in the right direction. But, just like the offense this last year, the slate gets wiped clean and nothing is guaranteed. McAdoo had a great first year but we cannot assume that it will continue. The defense had a remarkable year but we cannot assume that will continue. Our boat had leaks and we pulled our finger out of one hole to fill another. We cannot ignore our defense this offseason like we did our offense last season. If our defense stays the same we still need to add depth along the DL. Our DEs played way too many snaps. They need breaks to be at 100% every play they are on the field. We need more of a pass rush inside to collapse the pocket. We only have 1 first round pick and that one player will not cure all of our woes so take the player that will give us the best long term production so we don't have another hole ro fill in 3 years.
Look at the OT market last year and come back and let us know who you wanted. Osemele would be playing the position for basically the first time (and he ended up a guard in Oakland), and got paid a shit ton of money. And the rest - stunk. Penn was the only real option, and was basically using several teams (that he didn't visit) as leverage to re-sign.
Flowers showed us nothing to suggest that he is improving his game in 2016. He wasn't very good as a rookie (albeit tough) and we all hoped it was the ankle/leg injury and learning curve issues as a young guy.
But its 16 games later and he immediately exposes his flaws the second we call a passing pattern that takes 2.5 seconds.
I am not saying give up on him, but putting him back out there as the "de facto" LT in 2017 is simply reckless...
So forget about some reasonable deal. Overpay is the only way you get him. Unless he wants out, of which there is no indication
Giants fucked up not signing Penn last year. They might still be playing if they had.
So, I say don't make the same mistake twice
Penn wasn't interested in playing for NY.
Flowers showed us nothing to suggest that he is improving his game in 2016. He wasn't very good as a rookie (albeit tough) and we all hoped it was the ankle/leg injury and learning curve issues as a young guy.
But its 16 games later and he immediately exposes his flaws the second we call a passing pattern that takes 2.5 seconds.
I am not saying give up on him, but putting him back out there as the "de facto" LT in 2017 is simply reckless...
On this I agree with you. It's perfectly fine to start questioning what you can get out of him at this point. You now have a responsibility to not waste this defense or the QB.
He he he..ðŸ‘
Oh absolutely. What I found interesting is that someone outside of BBI and the NY media knows what our needs are..It's no secret of course, but usually other teams bloggers report on their team and teams within their division and have a passing interest (at best) about the other conference, imv
Flowers has more than enough talent to find another spot on our line. He needs to get his ass kicked by the coaches and they need to tell him he is losing his LT job until further notice.
My guess is he steps up. And if he doesn't then we know now that we shouldn't waste another year of Eli and the owner's money on JPP.
Flowers has more than enough talent to find another spot on our line. He needs to get his ass kicked by the coaches and they need to tell him he is losing his LT job until further notice.
My guess is he steps up. And if he doesn't then we know now that we shouldn't waste another year of Eli and the owner's money on JPP.
He doesn’t need to be fully removed from competing for LT though. His issue is not talent. It is just poor technique and I am assuming not working on improving because it has been 2 years of the same issues. Getting competition should light a fire under his ass. Human nature tells us that if there is no threat of losing your job that you can and most likely will get complacent. Having a legitimate chance at losing your job then he is going to have to fight for it by making the necessary improvements. I don't hate Flowers and I don't hate Reese but I would have handled this situation totally different from the get go.
I don't think anyone's arguing against you, simply pointing out that issue, as always, is cost and availability of starting-caliber players.
Osemele got $60m from the raiders to play guard, and it was a deal that shocked the league.
Clady was a trade, and a risk, and it didn't work out. He got hurt again.
Okung gambled on himself with a 1 year deal, but he didn't play particularly well either.
Penn never got on a plane.
So it goes back to what was available and at what cost. Starting quality players weren't just sitting around begging for jobs.
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And that was my big concern last year with the OL. Competition needed to be brought in for Flowers. That was not debatable imo. The issues with Flaherty were real. You could not ignore them. Someone had to be brought in or have Pugh truly fighting for that position and bring in a quality guard. I really dont care. Okung, Clady, Penn, someone else were legitimate possibilities. You guys can defend Reese in this area all you want. A GM's job is to give the coaching staff the necessary players to compete. Keeping your fingers crossed that Flowers, Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse were enough is extremely poor judgment. It is not hidlndsight. This was mentioned by numerous people including myself all last offseason. Pugh also has a history with missing games. Another starting caliber OL should have been brought in. Simple.
I don't think anyone's arguing against you, simply pointing out that issue, as always, is cost and availability of starting-caliber players.
Osemele got $60m from the raiders to play guard, and it was a deal that shocked the league.
Clady was a trade, and a risk, and it didn't work out. He got hurt again.
Okung gambled on himself with a 1 year deal, but he didn't play particularly well either.
Penn never got on a plane.
So it goes back to what was available and at what cost. Starting quality players weren't just sitting around begging for jobs.
But, like I said before, we came in very late for Penn. If he was one of our top priorities then that changes the game. It didn't even have to be him. It could have been Mitchell. We just needed another starting caliber OL. Now, maybe he isn't a great choice either. He made the pro bowl but I think also gave up the most sacks for a RT. Even if nobody was brought it, I think Pugh should have been a player competing for LT. He played much better than Flowers did at LT 2 years ago. I get the whole "having a strong interior" with our type of offense because, in theory, the ball should he out before an edge guy can get to the QB but Flowers proved our coaching staff wrong.
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picked a guy in the draft and say "damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead!".
Flowers showed us nothing to suggest that he is improving his game in 2016. He wasn't very good as a rookie (albeit tough) and we all hoped it was the ankle/leg injury and learning curve issues as a young guy.
But its 16 games later and he immediately exposes his flaws the second we call a passing pattern that takes 2.5 seconds.
I am not saying give up on him, but putting him back out there as the "de facto" LT in 2017 is simply reckless...
On this I agree with you. It's perfectly fine to start questioning what you can get out of him at this point. You now have a responsibility to not waste this defense or the QB.
I've not brought this up, but I'm sure the front office is thinking of it. At the end of this coming year, Flowers must be notified by the team of it's intent to pick up the 5th year option. If he remains as the LT, then the 5th year option for draft picks in the top 10 is 12.8 million for 2017. By 2019, the figure will be greater. They have this year to determine if they have a player that is worth picking up his 5th year option. His body of work at LT would conclude that he is not worth nearly 13 million. From that conclusion, then we only have him for 2 more years.
It would be wiser to find out where he'll play best so they can determine his value to the team going forward.
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In comment 13342789 Jimmy Googs said:
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picked a guy in the draft and say "damn the torpedoes...full speed ahead!".
Flowers showed us nothing to suggest that he is improving his game in 2016. He wasn't very good as a rookie (albeit tough) and we all hoped it was the ankle/leg injury and learning curve issues as a young guy.
But its 16 games later and he immediately exposes his flaws the second we call a passing pattern that takes 2.5 seconds.
I am not saying give up on him, but putting him back out there as the "de facto" LT in 2017 is simply reckless...
On this I agree with you. It's perfectly fine to start questioning what you can get out of him at this point. You now have a responsibility to not waste this defense or the QB.
I've not brought this up, but I'm sure the front office is thinking of it. At the end of this coming year, Flowers must be notified by the team of it's intent to pick up the 5th year option. If he remains as the LT, then the 5th year option for draft picks in the top 10 is 12.8 million for 2017. By 2019, the figure will be greater. They have this year to determine if they have a player that is worth picking up his 5th year option. His body of work at LT would conclude that he is not worth nearly 13 million. From that conclusion, then we only have him for 2 more years.
It would be wiser to find out where he'll play best so they can determine his value to the team going forward.
I'm confused. Next season's end will be his 3rd complete season. How does the 5th year option come into play?
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In comment 13342799 Ten Ton Hammer said:
On this I agree with you. It's perfectly fine to start questioning what you can get out of him at this point. You now have a responsibility to not waste this defense or the QB.
I've not brought this up, but I'm sure the front office is thinking of it. At the end of this coming year, Flowers must be notified by the team of it's intent to pick up the 5th year option. If he remains as the LT, then the 5th year option for draft picks in the top 10 is 12.8 million for 2017. By 2019, the figure will be greater. They have this year to determine if they have a player that is worth picking up his 5th year option. His body of work at LT would conclude that he is not worth nearly 13 million. From that conclusion, then we only have him for 2 more years.
It would be wiser to find out where he'll play best so they can determine his value to the team going forward.
I'm confused. Next season's end will be his 3rd complete season. How does the 5th year option come into play?
A player must be notified of a team's intent to pick up the 5th year option at the end of the player's 3rd contract year. So this coming year, the Giants must determine what value Ereck has to the team. If they continue with EF at LT, unless there is a miraculous improvement, then the business decision is that he won't be worth the current rate of 13 mil (which it will be much higher by 2019). This year if they find out he is the franchise's answer at RG, then it will be much cheaper to pick up the 5th year option.
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In comment 13342833 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13342799 Ten Ton Hammer said:
On this I agree with you. It's perfectly fine to start questioning what you can get out of him at this point. You now have a responsibility to not waste this defense or the QB.
I've not brought this up, but I'm sure the front office is thinking of it. At the end of this coming year, Flowers must be notified by the team of it's intent to pick up the 5th year option. If he remains as the LT, then the 5th year option for draft picks in the top 10 is 12.8 million for 2017. By 2019, the figure will be greater. They have this year to determine if they have a player that is worth picking up his 5th year option. His body of work at LT would conclude that he is not worth nearly 13 million. From that conclusion, then we only have him for 2 more years.
It would be wiser to find out where he'll play best so they can determine his value to the team going forward.
I'm confused. Next season's end will be his 3rd complete season. How does the 5th year option come into play?
A player must be notified of a team's intent to pick up the 5th year option at the end of the player's 3rd contract year. So this coming year, the Giants must determine what value Ereck has to the team. If they continue with EF at LT, unless there is a miraculous improvement, then the business decision is that he won't be worth the current rate of 13 mil (which it will be much higher by 2019). This year if they find out he is the franchise's answer at RG, then it will be much cheaper to pick up the 5th year option.
Gotcha. Thanks
In the meanwhile get some damn competition in the door this spring.
In the meanwhile get some damn competition in the door this spring.
And he probably will be told exactly that
Now if Flowers had improved that would have been a good plan. I actually trusted the Giants brass and expected the OL to be fine. But the Giants were dead wrong and a lot of people here were right.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
And I'd rather Cleveland just gave him to us and he played for free - but neither of those is an option. Don't you think someone - ANYONE - in the NFL would have offered Cleveland a 3rd rounder by now? Why do you think Thomas is available at fire sale prices and hasn't been moved? Is there some glut of quality LT play around the league that I've missed?
Now if Flowers had improved that would have been a good plan. I actually trusted the Giants brass and expected the OL to be fine. But the Giants were dead wrong and a lot of people here were right.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
Penn not getting on the Plane is a VERIFIABLE FACT..Saying the REAL REASON was that Penn didn't want to play RT is strictly your opinion and a NON-VERIFIABLE FACT.
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but I'd rather lose a couple of mid round picks (say a 3rd this year and 4th next year) and get a 32 year old Thomas than sign a 35 year old Whitworth.
And I'd rather Cleveland just gave him to us and he played for free - but neither of those is an option. Don't you think someone - ANYONE - in the NFL would have offered Cleveland a 3rd rounder by now? Why do you think Thomas is available at fire sale prices and hasn't been moved? Is there some glut of quality LT play around the league that I've missed?
Post of the day. Gotta love the "Just trade a 3rd and a 5th for a HOF LT." crowd.
Did he get on the plane? Was he on the plane then got off? Did his car breakdown on the way to the airport?
Just nonsense.
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was that the OL had played well during the last part of 2015. So they figured Flowers and Richburg would continue to improve and Jerry and Newhouse would be solid, low-cost stop-gaps.
Now if Flowers had improved that would have been a good plan. I actually trusted the Giants brass and expected the OL to be fine. But the Giants were dead wrong and a lot of people here were right.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
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With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
Penn not getting on the Plane is a VERIFIABLE FACT..Saying the REAL REASON was that Penn didn't want to play RT is strictly your opinion and a NON-VERIFIABLE FACT.
You always have to be right.
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In comment 13342972 Vanzetti said:
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was that the OL had played well during the last part of 2015. So they figured Flowers and Richburg would continue to improve and Jerry and Newhouse would be solid, low-cost stop-gaps.
Now if Flowers had improved that would have been a good plan. I actually trusted the Giants brass and expected the OL to be fine. But the Giants were dead wrong and a lot of people here were right.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
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With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
Penn not getting on the Plane is a VERIFIABLE FACT..Saying the REAL REASON was that Penn didn't want to play RT is strictly your opinion and a NON-VERIFIABLE FACT.
BB56
You always have to be right.
Listen Jackass, not sure why you haven't been banned yet, but what kind of imbecilic statement is that? I stated facts, he stated opinions. Ergo, I have to always be right?
He won't require a long term commitment which gives the Giants a window to work with Flowers. While a segment of BBI may have given up on Flowers I assure you the Giants haven't.
He's a free agent so giving up valuable assets to obtain his services isn't necessary. We need those picks. This roster still needs fortifying at multiple positions.
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In comment 13343128 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 13342972 Vanzetti said:
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was that the OL had played well during the last part of 2015. So they figured Flowers and Richburg would continue to improve and Jerry and Newhouse would be solid, low-cost stop-gaps.
Now if Flowers had improved that would have been a good plan. I actually trusted the Giants brass and expected the OL to be fine. But the Giants were dead wrong and a lot of people here were right.
With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
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With all due respect to BB56 and others who believe Penn was not going to sign no matter what the Giants did, the real reason is that they wanted him to play RT and serve as the backup at LT. Those are just the facts. Penn wound up signing a very reasonable deal for 7 million per--very reasonable for a LT. But Giants were never going to pay a RT that money and so they lost out. It was not really a mistake on their part but a misjudgment. They thought Flowers would improve. They were wrong. The mistake was probably not having a backupo plan but it is hard to have a legit fallback option at a premium position like LT.
Penn not getting on the Plane is a VERIFIABLE FACT..Saying the REAL REASON was that Penn didn't want to play RT is strictly your opinion and a NON-VERIFIABLE FACT.
BB56
You always have to be right.
Listen Jackass, not sure why you haven't been banned yet, but what kind of imbecilic statement is that? I stated facts, he stated opinions. Ergo, I have to always be right?
An at least play the position is worth it. Flowers is so
Young. 3 years from now he may be a totallly different player or
Out of the league. We need an OL
Reese And his staff need to figure
This out