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Round 1 Crop

ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 12:31 pm
Instead of a mock draft or just picking 1 guy, here's my VERY EARLY list of players that I think out of these, will end up on the Giants in round 1. Based on mix of value and need.

David Njoku - TE - Miami
Ryan Ramcyzk - OL - Wisconsin
Forrest Lamp - OL - Western Kentucky
Derek Barnett - DE - Tennessee
OJ Howard - TE - Alabama
Takkarist McKinley - DE/OLB - UCLA
Taco Charlton - DE - Michigan
Christian McCaffrey - RB - Stanford
Cooper Kupp - WR - Eastern Washington

I'm not including Corey Davis as I think he'll be gone. Howard is definitely a stretch, but who knows, he may fall to us. Don't have CB listed because I really don't think we can justify CB in round 1 with Apple and Jenkins and the overall state of our defense, coupled with the struggles on offense with Eli's short window. Feel free to add players to the crop and discuss.
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I don't want Cooper Kupp based on his father only  
JohnB : 1/29/2017 3:41 pm : link
.
RE: With the Exception of Flowers  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13343263 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
With a Glaring Need for an O-line player we will be looking
at a weak Draft and a low position .
Take a Friggen Playmaker TE WR RB .
Christian McCaffrey I am not a big fan rather get a guy like
D'Onte Foreman .

McCaffrey is 10 times the playmaker that Foreman is.
My sleepers are  
k-five : 1/29/2017 4:29 pm : link
Jarrad Davis LB Florida and Bucky Hodges Receiver VaTech. I say receiver because he doesn't look and move or block like a TE yet he would be huge for WR at 6'7 245. These guys are football players and playmakers.
I'm looking at Feeney too.  
area junc : 1/29/2017 4:39 pm : link
Seems to have a little Chris Snee to him. Pure RG. Giants-type OL.
Plenty of time to go thru the potential candidates, but I am all-in  
Jimmy Googs : 1/29/2017 5:22 pm : link
on Corey Davis...
RE: Plenty of time to go thru the potential candidates, but I am all-in  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13343385 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
on Corey Davis...

Id be shocked if he gets past Philly let alone slips to us at 23
RE: I like JuJu Smith-Schuster  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13343243 BillT said:
Quote:
Over Kupp. Bigger guy, better level of competition.

That's a good call. JJSS has seemed to have gotten lost in the early draft process, and could rise towards the top again once the combine hits and we get closer.
If Peppers  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:34 pm : link
falls it would be mighty tempting. Dynamic D guy.
RE: If Peppers  
section125 : 1/29/2017 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13343451 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
falls it would be mighty tempting. Dynamic D guy.


rmk, Peppers seems to be a dynamite college player, but where does he play in the NFL? Giants already have Collins at SS. Can he play FS? Is he a possible WR - big enough with enough speed to play opposite OBJ?

To small for WLB. Think he'd be wasted at RB.

I just cannot envision his best position.
Cam Robinson and Garrett Boles would be very interesting at 23  
PatersonPlank : 1/29/2017 7:12 pm : link
I am really starting to like Boles.
I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
sjnyfan : 1/29/2017 9:06 pm : link
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.
RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
Milton : 1/29/2017 9:23 pm : link
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.
Mixed feelings about Reddick, but I could see him pushing his way into the first round, just not quite as high as #23. We're talking about a guy out of Temple who is going to be making a very significant position switch (this isn't like going from CB to FS or OT to OG). I would certainly include him in the mix with the Giants 2nd round pick (55th overall), but even then you're talking about using that pick on a guy who isn't likely to be anything more than a specialty player as a rookie.
Leonard Fournette  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 1/30/2017 10:06 am : link
sign Whitworth and Zeitler. Zay Jones in the second. Evan Engram in the third.
DE crop isn't promising  
JonC : 1/30/2017 10:16 am : link
I like McKinley but suspect he'll likely be a 3-4 scheme target.
RE: Leonard Fournette  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13343773 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:
Quote:
sign Whitworth and Zeitler. Zay Jones in the second. Evan Engram in the third.

C'mon, Fournette is not an option at 23. Let's try and stick to realistic outcomes here...
RE: DE crop isn't promising  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13343782 JonC said:
Quote:
I like McKinley but suspect he'll likely be a 3-4 scheme target.

I love McKinley as well. Mayock loves him too...he may go before us to a 3-4 needy team.
He's a Steelers-type OLB  
JonC : 1/30/2017 10:51 am : link
.
Agreed, Jon.  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 10:52 am : link
.
RE: RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
sjnyfan : 1/30/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13343556 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:


Quote:


No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.

Mixed feelings about Reddick, but I could see him pushing his way into the first round, just not quite as high as #23. We're talking about a guy out of Temple who is going to be making a very significant position switch (this isn't like going from CB to FS or OT to OG). I would certainly include him in the mix with the Giants 2nd round pick (55th overall), but even then you're talking about using that pick on a guy who isn't likely to be anything more than a specialty player as a rookie.


I respectively disagree. Muhammad Wilkerson was a Temple player who had to adjust to a new scheme when he wind up going 13th overall several years ago. He wasn't projected that high this early in the process. You can't pick a player by school, you gotta pick them by talent. This isn't a significant switch for Reddick either. He was a walk on defensive back that initially played linebacker. He didn't become the full time starter at DE until his junior season but he still would drop into coverage when needed. That level of athleticism and versatility is exactly why I think he could be in play come draft night.
The more I peruse the 1st Round DE's in this draft....  
Torrag : 1/30/2017 10:59 am : link
...the more confident I am that we'll find a way to retain JPP. There just isn't an explosive edge rushing 4-3 guy in the mix at #23 imo.
RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
mrvax : 1/30/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.


It's possible and exciting/dangerous? to draft a 1st rounder as the BPA without having a clear position in mind. It makes the coaches try to play the guy in a role where he can do his best. If the Giants have him as the BPA come pick time, I would not mind.
RE: I don't want Cooper Kupp based on his father only  
mrvax : 1/30/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13343334 JohnB said:
Quote:
.


JohnB: Kupp had a grandfather, Jake, who played for the Saints. Is this who you mean? Why the hate?
His dad was a QB we drafted in the 5th round one year who  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 11:37 am : link
never made it. Chris?
RE: His dad was a QB we drafted in the 5th round one year who  
The_Boss : 1/30/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13343896 yatqb said:
Quote:
never made it. Chris?


Craig
Right!  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 11:47 am : link
.
I'm pretty confident that whomever JR drafts in round one...  
Klaatu : 1/30/2017 11:50 am : link
Will be the goods. Even at #23, there should be quite a few players still available that are worthy of a first-round pick.

It's the rest of the draft that concerns me. The Giants need to get significant contributions from their mid-to-late-round picks, which is something they weren't able to get for several years. That seems to have changed with the most recent drafts, and it needs to continue if they're to be considered serious contenders.
speaking of Muhammad Wilkerson  
area junc : 1/30/2017 12:07 pm : link
the guy nobody is talking about at #23 is DT Malik McDowell (Michigan St.)

6'6" 284 lbs. Huge wingspan, huge hands.
True Junior - 20 years old. Huge upside/untapped potential.

This guy, when the smoke clears, might check all the boxes for the New York Giants at #23.
RE: RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
sjnyfan : 1/30/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13343881 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:


Quote:


No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.



It's possible and exciting/dangerous? to draft a 1st rounder as the BPA without having a clear position in mind. It makes the coaches try to play the guy in a role where he can do his best. If the Giants have him as the BPA come pick time, I would not mind.


He'll be a LB in the NFL
McDowell getting more projections to 3-4 DE  
JonC : 1/30/2017 12:19 pm : link
than 4-3 pass rushing DE.
Strength of the 2017 Draft is CB  
sjnyfan : 1/30/2017 12:32 pm : link
Even though we took Apple last year I wouldn't mind taking another this year if the value trumps other positions at 23. You need 3 starting caliber CB's in today's NFL. Plus we've seen what happens when any one of our current trio goes down.
RE: McDowell getting more projections to 3-4 DE  
Klaatu : 1/30/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13343953 JonC said:
Quote:
than 4-3 pass rushing DE.


Same as Wilkerson.

Personally, I'd love to land Derek Barnett in the first if we go the DE route, but I don't think he'll last until #23.
RE: McDowell getting more projections to 3-4 DE  
Milton : 1/30/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13343953 JonC said:
Quote:
than 4-3 pass rushing DE.
The Giants could see him in the Justin Tuck role as a DE in the base defense and DT in the four aces. Or simply as a 3-technique in the base who doesn't come out on passing downs. He definitely strikes me as a Giants type pick, but given the greater needs on offense I think he would have to be BPA by a lot. If the Giants had a similar grade on an OL like Cam Robinson and both he and McDowell were available, it's hard to imagine them taking the DL over the OL.
RE: Strength of the 2017 Draft is CB  
Jimmy Googs : 1/30/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13343975 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
Even though we took Apple last year I wouldn't mind taking another this year if the value trumps other positions at 23. You need 3 starting caliber CB's in today's NFL. Plus we've seen what happens when any one of our current trio goes down.


I don't disagree. But just not with first round pick. Find eventual replacement for DRC in round 2 and get Wade off this roster next year.
McDowell  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 1:12 pm : link
is another good call. Could be too much talent to pass up if he's there at 23.
RE: RE: McDowell getting more projections to 3-4 DE  
JonC : 1/30/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13343977 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13343953 JonC said:


Quote:


than 4-3 pass rushing DE.

The Giants could see him in the Justin Tuck role as a DE in the base defense and DT in the four aces. Or simply as a 3-technique in the base who doesn't come out on passing downs. He definitely strikes me as a Giants type pick, but given the greater needs on offense I think he would have to be BPA by a lot. If the Giants had a similar grade on an OL like Cam Robinson and both he and McDowell were available, it's hard to imagine them taking the DL over the OL.


They tend to go for explosive athletes in the first two rounds, we'll have to see how MM tests out during scouting season. I'm not sure the AA will be there.
RE: RE: RE: McDowell getting more projections to 3-4 DE  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13344023 JonC said:
Quote:




They tend to go for explosive athletes in the first two rounds,

Which is why I've included McKinley in that list. He'll blow up the combine.
However  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 1:27 pm : link
McKinley is sort of an Owa clone. That could give the Giants pause.
He's more 3-4 OLB  
JonC : 1/30/2017 1:31 pm : link
in the Steelers mold.
I could be wrong but  
Jersey55 : 1/30/2017 4:29 pm : link
I think Reese will reach in round 1 for the best O lineman still on the board because of need at the position. I know the Giants say they don't reach in the first 2 rounds but I just don't believe that will be the case in this coming draft....
I wouldn't get my hopes up for a 1st round TE  
Beer Man : 1/30/2017 5:07 pm : link
Jerry R doesn't seem to place that much value in the TE position. It would have to be a freakish TE, and even then not sure he would do it.
At some point even Jerry Reese has to place some value  
Jimmy Googs : 1/30/2017 7:03 pm : link
on positions that he historically doesn't value.

RE: At some point even Jerry Reese has to place some value  
Beer Man : 1/31/2017 8:34 am : link
In comment 13344429 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
on positions that he historically doesn't value.
We can only hope. If he does, my vote would to break the pattern at the LB position first.
RE: Kupp is not a first round prospect  
Giants2012 : 1/31/2017 8:39 am : link
In comment 13343247 Milton said:
Quote:
He may turn out to be a Hall of Famer, you never know, but as a prospect he just doesn't add up to a first round pick. I see him going anywhere from mid-2nd to mid-4th.


Pat Kirwan talked him up and suddenly he's a first rounder.
RE: RE: Leonard Fournette  
Giants2012 : 1/31/2017 8:42 am : link
In comment 13343806 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13343773 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:


Quote:


sign Whitworth and Zeitler. Zay Jones in the second. Evan Engram in the third.


C'mon, Fournette is not an option at 23. Let's try and stick to realistic outcomes here...


If he runs a 4.6 at the combine you never know. They'll label him a 3rd Rounder. 23 isn't a huge drop yet I doubt he falls past 19. Wouldn't shock me if he's on the board after 10 though.
RE: At some point even Jerry Reese has to place some value  
Beer Man : 1/31/2017 8:45 am : link
In comment 13344429 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
on positions that he historically doesn't value.
Seems like some positions have to fail miserably before he changes his approach. Positions that he has historically devalued are:
• OL, it wasn’t until it got really bad that he started to use higher draft picks on the OL. It’s still far from being a good unit
• LB, we are still waiting
• TE, we are still waiting
• Safety, a few years back we had zero at the position which forced him to use cast offs and trade up to get Collins. Baring injuries this unit seems to have recovered; may still need a little more depth
RE: I wouldn't get my hopes up for a 1st round TE  
Klaatu : 1/31/2017 8:54 am : link
In comment 13344342 Beer Man said:
Quote:
Jerry R doesn't seem to place that much value in the TE position. It would have to be a freakish TE, and even then not sure he would do it.


The Giants were poised to draft Tyler Eifert in the first round back in 2013, but the need for an OT was so great that they went with Justin Pugh.
RE: RE: I wouldn't get my hopes up for a 1st round TE  
Beer Man : 1/31/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13344690 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13344342 Beer Man said:


Quote:


Jerry R doesn't seem to place that much value in the TE position. It would have to be a freakish TE, and even then not sure he would do it.



The Giants were poised to draft Tyler Eifert in the first round back in 2013, but the need for an OT was so great that they went with Justin Pugh.
I don't remember that ever being the case. But, let's say for argument sake you are correct. Aren't the Giants in the same situation this year? Only difference is that this year they have a great need for 2 OTs?
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't get my hopes up for a 1st round TE  
Klaatu : 1/31/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13344902 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13344690 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13344342 Beer Man said:


Quote:


Jerry R doesn't seem to place that much value in the TE position. It would have to be a freakish TE, and even then not sure he would do it.



The Giants were poised to draft Tyler Eifert in the first round back in 2013, but the need for an OT was so great that they went with Justin Pugh.

I don't remember that ever being the case. But, let's say for argument sake you are correct. Aren't the Giants in the same situation this year? Only difference is that this year they have a great need for 2 OTs?


The Giants were in no position cap-wise to address their O-Line in free agency in 2013. That won't be the case this year, although the pickings are a bit slim. And as bad as the O-Line was in 2016, they were much worse off following the 2012 season, hence the Pugh pick.

Also, if you think the Giants are going to draft two starting caliber OTs in the upcoming draft, think again. They might be able to score one - and the operative word is "might" - but two would be highly unlikely.
RE: Eifert  
JonC : 1/31/2017 11:33 am : link
They were close to desperate for an OT. I was being told the pick was likely going to be Eifert right up until the last moment they were on the clock, changed gears and picked Pugh.

They're not going to be looking to procure two OTs this year, way too soon to give up on Flowers, not matter how angry fans are.


RE: RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't get my hopes up for a 1st round TE  
Beer Man : 1/31/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13344918 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13344902 Beer Man said:


Quote:


In comment 13344690 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13344342 Beer Man said:


Quote:


Jerry R doesn't seem to place that much value in the TE position. It would have to be a freakish TE, and even then not sure he would do it.



The Giants were poised to draft Tyler Eifert in the first round back in 2013, but the need for an OT was so great that they went with Justin Pugh.

I don't remember that ever being the case. But, let's say for argument sake you are correct. Aren't the Giants in the same situation this year? Only difference is that this year they have a great need for 2 OTs?



The Giants were in no position cap-wise to address their O-Line in free agency in 2013. That won't be the case this year, although the pickings are a bit slim. And as bad as the O-Line was in 2016, they were much worse off following the 2012 season, hence the Pugh pick.

Also, if you think the Giants are going to draft two starting caliber OTs in the upcoming draft, think again. They might be able to score one - and the operative word is "might" - but two would be highly unlikely.
I never said they were looking to draft two, my point was to show how desperate the team is at the position. IMO they will pick up at least one FA to help the O-line.
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