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Round 1 Crop

ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 12:31 pm
Instead of a mock draft or just picking 1 guy, here's my VERY EARLY list of players that I think out of these, will end up on the Giants in round 1. Based on mix of value and need.

David Njoku - TE - Miami
Ryan Ramcyzk - OL - Wisconsin
Forrest Lamp - OL - Western Kentucky
Derek Barnett - DE - Tennessee
OJ Howard - TE - Alabama
Takkarist McKinley - DE/OLB - UCLA
Taco Charlton - DE - Michigan
Christian McCaffrey - RB - Stanford
Cooper Kupp - WR - Eastern Washington

I'm not including Corey Davis as I think he'll be gone. Howard is definitely a stretch, but who knows, he may fall to us. Don't have CB listed because I really don't think we can justify CB in round 1 with Apple and Jenkins and the overall state of our defense, coupled with the struggles on offense with Eli's short window. Feel free to add players to the crop and discuss.
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JPPs  
Jon in NYC : 1/29/2017 12:34 pm : link
pending departure could vault DE to no. 1 priority in a major way.
I doubt very much OJ Howard  
johnnyb : 1/29/2017 12:38 pm : link
falls to us at 23, but if he ever did, he would be my pick over the others you have listed.
Would you be happy with this Njoku kid  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2017 12:38 pm : link
if Howard is off the board? Differences, iyo?
Not a fan of the DE's  
Mike in NY : 1/29/2017 12:41 pm : link
I would add Dan Feeney to the list
RE: Would you be happy with this Njoku kid  
Mike in NY : 1/29/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13343210 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if Howard is off the board? Differences, iyo?


Njoku my biggest concern is can he be the sort of blocker we need to help our running game. Atlanta does not get much from their TE's but look how good they did. Green Bay, despite having Cook, he was invisible/hurt a lot of the season. Unless you are getting the next Rob Gronkowski, the TE needs to be at least capable enough as a run blocker that defenses cannot scheme to take him away as a threat in the passing game because they know he won't be making a difference blocking anybody.
BigBlue  
johnnyb : 1/29/2017 12:49 pm : link
I did not see Miami play a lot this season. The little I know about Njoku is he is very athletic with a great size/ speed combination to create mismatches. What I am not sure about is his blocking ability. The Giants need a TE who can do both, although the pass catching ability is more important IMO. If he is a willing blocker and can get stronger he would be a welcomed addition but others on the list may be more appealing.
I have a feeling  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 12:51 pm : link
Barnett will be high on our board. He's got the size we covet at DE and broke Reggie White's sack record at Tennessee, but for some reason, he's not really considered a top 10 guy. I've seen a lot of "good starter" notes on him with limited upside, perhaps limited athleticism?
RE: Not a fan of the DE's  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13343212 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
I would add Dan Feeney to the list

Feeney is a good call, him and Pocic will definitely be looked at I think. If one of them falls to us in round 2 it'd be a no brainer. However, at 23, not sure these guys would be in the mix.
Personally  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 12:55 pm : link
I'd want to go TE or OL. But if there's a DE with really high upside still available at 23, tough to argue with taking him.
Good thread as I think these are likely obvious players  
The_Boss : 1/29/2017 12:58 pm : link
who should be available at or around 23. I don't think Howard will be there though. I do think we can add Gerald Everett (TE,South Alabama), Garrett Bolles (OL, Utah), Jarrod Davis (LB, UF), Zach Cunningham (LB, Vandy), and Montravius Adams (DL, Auburn) to the list, with the LB's being long shots based upon past NYG draft history.

The Miami TE is the guy I'm rooting for. Based on everything I've seen thus far, his ceiling is through the roof.
Gotta put Cam Robinson on the list if he's falling as much  
yatqb : 1/29/2017 1:00 pm : link
as is rumored...and perhaps Ross and McDowell. Also Garrett Bolles. And although it's unlikely, a CB could be the pick if a shutdown guy is there and no one else is close in value...although we'd probably have ammunition to trade down in that case.

Nice way to start the discussion, Ryan!
My current short list (excluding those who expect will be gone)...  
Milton : 1/29/2017 1:01 pm : link
Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson, Christian McCaffrey.

I had been down on Robinson, worried the Giants would have the same problems with him that they've had with Flowers, but the more I read, the less concerned I am about his downside. Not that he doesn't have a downside, but it's not as bad as what we're witnessing from Flowers.

Boylhart had this to say about him...
Quote:
He could be that good but there are questions on and off the field that make it hard to trust this kid and select him early in this draft for me. Off field issues seem to be behind him and that’s a good thing but the improvement in his game this year seem to only happen when Cam made the decision half way through the year (in his mind) to declare. That makes me think his work ethic is only monetarily driven. Now that is not necessarily a bad thing except if it’s his only goal. I suspect Cam will be selected earlier than I have him rated. He will work out and impress everyone with his athletic talents and he has improved this year. I also can understand that for most people that there is no reason to think Cam won’t continue to improve except it bothers me that after all the off field issues and lack of learning correct techniques on the field that he has decided to come out early...But remember this about Cam, he could eventually be as good as Trent Williams and that’s pretty good.
Bolles  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 1:06 pm : link
seems very solid, but i think he's more of a 35-45 range guy than 23. He's turning 25 in May, and has holes in his pass blocking.
Solid List  
WillVAB : 1/29/2017 1:09 pm : link
Don't like Taco Charlton because I think he'll bust. Looks the part athletically but just not a good enough football player. Don't like Mcaffrey because he's more of a luxury pick and I don't think RBs are worth 1st round picks.
If a CB falls who is highest rated on their board  
Jay in Toronto : 1/29/2017 1:13 pm : link
They will take him
RE: Bolles  
yatqb : 1/29/2017 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13343229 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
seems very solid, but i think he's more of a 35-45 range guy than 23. He's turning 25 in May, and has holes in his pass blocking.


I know, Ryan, but I'd say that Reese can sometimes get desperate when faced with a major need. Look no further than Flowers at 9. I too see Bolles as a poor pick at 23.
I like JuJu Smith-Schuster  
BillT : 1/29/2017 1:24 pm : link
Over Kupp. Bigger guy, better level of competition.
Kupp is not a first round prospect  
Milton : 1/29/2017 1:33 pm : link
He may turn out to be a Hall of Famer, you never know, but as a prospect he just doesn't add up to a first round pick. I see him going anywhere from mid-2nd to mid-4th.
RE: Kupp is not a first round prospect  
The_Boss : 1/29/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13343247 Milton said:
Quote:
He may turn out to be a Hall of Famer, you never know, but as a prospect he just doesn't add up to a first round pick. I see him going anywhere from mid-2nd to mid-4th.


Tony Pauline was on with John Shmeilk (sp) and Dottino on Friday and says in no way, shape, or form is Kupp a 1st rounder.
With the Exception of Flowers  
Bluesbreaker : 1/29/2017 2:10 pm : link
With a Glaring Need for an O-line player we will be looking
at a weak Draft and a low position .
Take a Friggen Playmaker TE WR RB .
Christian McCaffrey I am not a big fan rather get a guy like
D'Onte Foreman . Love to get OJ Howard who I think would
pay huge dividends and help open up this pathetic offense
we ran this past season
There seems to be a hole  
lugnut : 1/29/2017 2:49 pm : link
developing over our #23 pick to where I'm not sure which offensive weapon will be available to us. That is, Corey Davis and O.J. Howard have moved up the board and there's virtually no way they'll be available.

Njoku could, but I'm not convinced about him yet. Isn't he just a sophomore? And he's only 240? And we're not sure of his blocking? Between those, I doubt he's ready to contribute in 2017. And McCaffrey I'm just leery of.

Lamp apparently has disappointed at the Senior Bowl (or Shrine Bowl, whatever it is that just happened). And he's a G -- he should never have been considered in first round to begin with. Same w/ Feeney, IMO.

How about Haasan Reddick (OLB / Edge Rusher)? Double-down on D? He might be a slight reach but apparently he electrified everyone at Senior/Shrine.
Oh and...  
lugnut : 1/29/2017 2:51 pm : link
McKinley is not a 3-down player. Charlton is very good but not great, plays with little urgency. Neither would be in my first round options.
Njoku's also only 6'3 1/2".  
yatqb : 1/29/2017 3:08 pm : link
He's just much sorter than I want from a TE. Talented, though.
Someone will fall  
George : 1/29/2017 3:22 pm : link
Always happens. Just a question of who.

I wouldn't be surprised if J. Peppers is this year's model: he's sort of a SS/OLB tweener, and some teams don't like to bet on those in the first round.

I don't want Cooper Kupp based on his father only  
JohnB : 1/29/2017 3:41 pm : link
.
RE: With the Exception of Flowers  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13343263 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
With a Glaring Need for an O-line player we will be looking
at a weak Draft and a low position .
Take a Friggen Playmaker TE WR RB .
Christian McCaffrey I am not a big fan rather get a guy like
D'Onte Foreman .

McCaffrey is 10 times the playmaker that Foreman is.
My sleepers are  
k-five : 1/29/2017 4:29 pm : link
Jarrad Davis LB Florida and Bucky Hodges Receiver VaTech. I say receiver because he doesn't look and move or block like a TE yet he would be huge for WR at 6'7 245. These guys are football players and playmakers.
I'm looking at Feeney too.  
area junc : 1/29/2017 4:39 pm : link
Seems to have a little Chris Snee to him. Pure RG. Giants-type OL.
Plenty of time to go thru the potential candidates, but I am all-in  
Jimmy Googs : 1/29/2017 5:22 pm : link
on Corey Davis...
RE: Plenty of time to go thru the potential candidates, but I am all-in  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13343385 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
on Corey Davis...

Id be shocked if he gets past Philly let alone slips to us at 23
RE: I like JuJu Smith-Schuster  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13343243 BillT said:
Quote:
Over Kupp. Bigger guy, better level of competition.

That's a good call. JJSS has seemed to have gotten lost in the early draft process, and could rise towards the top again once the combine hits and we get closer.
If Peppers  
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2017 6:34 pm : link
falls it would be mighty tempting. Dynamic D guy.
RE: If Peppers  
section125 : 1/29/2017 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13343451 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
falls it would be mighty tempting. Dynamic D guy.


rmk, Peppers seems to be a dynamite college player, but where does he play in the NFL? Giants already have Collins at SS. Can he play FS? Is he a possible WR - big enough with enough speed to play opposite OBJ?

To small for WLB. Think he'd be wasted at RB.

I just cannot envision his best position.
Cam Robinson and Garrett Boles would be very interesting at 23  
PatersonPlank : 1/29/2017 7:12 pm : link
I am really starting to like Boles.
I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
sjnyfan : 1/29/2017 9:06 pm : link
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.
RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
Milton : 1/29/2017 9:23 pm : link
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.
Mixed feelings about Reddick, but I could see him pushing his way into the first round, just not quite as high as #23. We're talking about a guy out of Temple who is going to be making a very significant position switch (this isn't like going from CB to FS or OT to OG). I would certainly include him in the mix with the Giants 2nd round pick (55th overall), but even then you're talking about using that pick on a guy who isn't likely to be anything more than a specialty player as a rookie.
Leonard Fournette  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 1/30/2017 10:06 am : link
sign Whitworth and Zeitler. Zay Jones in the second. Evan Engram in the third.
DE crop isn't promising  
JonC : 1/30/2017 10:16 am : link
I like McKinley but suspect he'll likely be a 3-4 scheme target.
RE: Leonard Fournette  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13343773 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:
Quote:
sign Whitworth and Zeitler. Zay Jones in the second. Evan Engram in the third.

C'mon, Fournette is not an option at 23. Let's try and stick to realistic outcomes here...
RE: DE crop isn't promising  
ryanmkeane : 1/30/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13343782 JonC said:
Quote:
I like McKinley but suspect he'll likely be a 3-4 scheme target.

I love McKinley as well. Mayock loves him too...he may go before us to a 3-4 needy team.
He's a Steelers-type OLB  
JonC : 1/30/2017 10:51 am : link
.
Agreed, Jon.  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 10:52 am : link
.
RE: RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
sjnyfan : 1/30/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13343556 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:


Quote:


No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.

Mixed feelings about Reddick, but I could see him pushing his way into the first round, just not quite as high as #23. We're talking about a guy out of Temple who is going to be making a very significant position switch (this isn't like going from CB to FS or OT to OG). I would certainly include him in the mix with the Giants 2nd round pick (55th overall), but even then you're talking about using that pick on a guy who isn't likely to be anything more than a specialty player as a rookie.


I respectively disagree. Muhammad Wilkerson was a Temple player who had to adjust to a new scheme when he wind up going 13th overall several years ago. He wasn't projected that high this early in the process. You can't pick a player by school, you gotta pick them by talent. This isn't a significant switch for Reddick either. He was a walk on defensive back that initially played linebacker. He didn't become the full time starter at DE until his junior season but he still would drop into coverage when needed. That level of athleticism and versatility is exactly why I think he could be in play come draft night.
The more I peruse the 1st Round DE's in this draft....  
Torrag : 1/30/2017 10:59 am : link
...the more confident I am that we'll find a way to retain JPP. There just isn't an explosive edge rushing 4-3 guy in the mix at #23 imo.
RE: I would put Haason Reddick on that list  
mrvax : 1/30/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13343547 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
No defensive player helped themselves more at the Senior Bowl and I think he's going to blow up the combine. He can play any LB position, has the ability to drop in coverage and his numbers speak for themselves as a pass rusher.


It's possible and exciting/dangerous? to draft a 1st rounder as the BPA without having a clear position in mind. It makes the coaches try to play the guy in a role where he can do his best. If the Giants have him as the BPA come pick time, I would not mind.
RE: I don't want Cooper Kupp based on his father only  
mrvax : 1/30/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13343334 JohnB said:
Quote:
.


JohnB: Kupp had a grandfather, Jake, who played for the Saints. Is this who you mean? Why the hate?
His dad was a QB we drafted in the 5th round one year who  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 11:37 am : link
never made it. Chris?
RE: His dad was a QB we drafted in the 5th round one year who  
The_Boss : 1/30/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13343896 yatqb said:
Quote:
never made it. Chris?


Craig
Right!  
yatqb : 1/30/2017 11:47 am : link
.
I'm pretty confident that whomever JR drafts in round one...  
Klaatu : 1/30/2017 11:50 am : link
Will be the goods. Even at #23, there should be quite a few players still available that are worthy of a first-round pick.

It's the rest of the draft that concerns me. The Giants need to get significant contributions from their mid-to-late-round picks, which is something they weren't able to get for several years. That seems to have changed with the most recent drafts, and it needs to continue if they're to be considered serious contenders.
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