I hope coach Mac is taking this time to install and scheme plays that can destroy the Cover Two zone we have been stifled with all last season.
A)To break the Cover Two you need to be able to Run the ball and force the other team out of it.
B)You need tall WRs who can get those 8-10 yards under it and pick up huge chunks at a time A TE can also accomplish this too or a even a RB out of the backfield.
C)GreenBay uses a line up where they put two WRs is the Slots and the Two TEs on the Edge and force the Defense to attack the WRs or get match ups on the Safeties.
D)Bunch or Trips Formations are also great at destroying a Cover Two. 4 WRs with three in one area and One isolated on the other side of the field One on One.
Of Course in the Cover two you have 7 or 6 man fronts and your oline and a blocking TE or Fullback should be able to move this pile for 5 plus yards.
So we have to either fix this in the Draft or FA because every team we play is going to be in it to neutralize Beckhams big play abilities and YAC.
This Offense needs a Big Two Way TE in the worst way.
A big RB who can punish a defense and pick up yards after he is hit.
A RB who can chip block and move out in the Zone pockets and get yardage after catch.
A roadgrader at RG who can move two DL and allow the tackles to seal the edge off.
No we have Parts but we need depth at TE and RB and the Scheming to Get Odell out in space to use his break away speed.
One of the best plays I saw this year was the Cincy game
where they put the Tackles outside the Hash marks and isolated their TE on our Safety. It was Brillant.
A big RB who can punish a defense and pick up yards after he is hit: Brandon Jacobs
A RB who can chip block and move out in the Zone pockets and get yardage after catch: Ahmad Bradshaw
A roadgrader at RG who can move two DL and allow the tackles to seal the edge off: Chris Snee
Back to the Future!
A big RB who can punish a defense and pick up yards after he is hit: Brandon Jacobs
A RB who can chip block and move out in the Zone pockets and get yardage after catch: Ahmad Bradshaw
A roadgrader at RG who can move two DL and allow the tackles to seal the edge off: Chris Snee
Back to the Future!
The offense similarity is that when they are both hitting on the same page they are both unstoppable by Defenses.
Why TC liked Mac and his system. TC liked the big vertical passing game. Greenbay ripped apart the Giants Defense like it was nothing twice.
The throws to Victor Cruz down the sideline are exactly what starts to do it, but he is simply not a threat after the catch anymore. If you hit those long sideline plays, you force the safeties to play wider to prevent those which then opens up the middle for the slants and drags that this offense lives on. In fact most of your premise is dead wrong and shows a woeful feel for what the C-2 is. You need a RB who can threaten the edges in the passing game and the running game because in a true C-2 the CBs play the run up front on the outer quarters so if they are threatened you can get WRs in behind them and in front of the safeties..which pull the safeties wide and again open up the middle.
It's a game of cat and mouse, threaten the edges or threaten the seams and hit what they don't cover but having players other teams fear or have to account for makes it go as does a QB who has time to figure it out. There is no magic formula, it's about execution, recognition and players threatening a defense somewhere. We have ONE player who does that, period we need more.
The throws to Victor Cruz down the sideline are exactly what starts to do it, but he is simply not a threat after the catch anymore. If you hit those long sideline plays, you force the safeties to play wider to prevent those which then opens up the middle for the slants and drags that this offense lives on. In fact most of your premise is dead wrong and shows a woeful feel for what the C-2 is. You need a RB who can threaten the edges in the passing game and the running game because in a true C-2 the CBs play the run up front on the outer quarters so if they are threatened you can get WRs in behind them and in front of the safeties..which pull the safeties wide and again open up the middle.
It's a game of cat and mouse, threaten the edges or threaten the seams and hit what they don't cover but having players other teams fear or have to account for makes it go as does a QB who has time to figure it out. There is no magic formula, it's about execution, recognition and players threatening a defense somewhere. We have ONE player who does that, period we need more.
Are you talking about a healthy Vereen type RB or a A Tiki type RB?
The throws to Victor Cruz down the sideline are exactly what starts to do it, but he is simply not a threat after the catch anymore. If you hit those long sideline plays, you force the safeties to play wider to prevent those which then opens up the middle for the slants and drags that this offense lives on. In fact most of your premise is dead wrong and shows a woeful feel for what the C-2 is. You need a RB who can threaten the edges in the passing game and the running game because in a true C-2 the CBs play the run up front on the outer quarters so if they are threatened you can get WRs in behind them and in front of the safeties..which pull the safeties wide and again open up the middle.
It's a game of cat and mouse, threaten the edges or threaten the seams and hit what they don't cover but having players other teams fear or have to account for makes it go as does a QB who has time to figure it out. There is no magic formula, it's about execution, recognition and players threatening a defense somewhere. We have ONE player who does that, period we need more.
8-10 yards a throw is moving the sticks and what this offense is based on it. Never go broke taking a profit Macs words. A big target would accomplish that. The Ball comes out at 3-4 seconds again this a take what the defense gives you and the Cover 2 can be destroyed by taking those short routes and throws that move the sticks.
What we've been seeing is consistent two-deep looks, not just cover-2. Of course no defense runs 2-deep 100% of the time - they mix and disguise coverages, but we have had teams using 2-deep far too often against us.
What we need to do is force the second safety into the box. To do this we need to win up front. The opposing team will not stick with 2-deep if they are being beat underneath.
Since we are going with 11 formation, 2 deep means they have committed 5 defenders to beating our 3 WR looks. We then have 8 on 6 in the box. Of course Eli is no threat to run on his own, so we must be able to beat their 6 remaining defenders with our 7 up front. If one is the ball carrier or receiver, then the other 6 are blockers. We must be able to win these matchups, which will force one of the safeties to drop down into the box. We also need to have a runner who is good at making defenders miss tackles or is good at breaking arm tackles. It seems as though Jennings excels at neither.
So, we need to win our blocking matchups and do a better job of making guys miss tackles. This will beat the 2-high looks we've seen.
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8-10 yards under it does no good, that is what the defense is designed to do, force you to go in small to medium chunks methodically down the field. A TE isn't going to break a C-2 shell either unless his name is Gronkwoski and you have a set of WRs who can make you pay underneath for tracking him down the field.
The throws to Victor Cruz down the sideline are exactly what starts to do it, but he is simply not a threat after the catch anymore. If you hit those long sideline plays, you force the safeties to play wider to prevent those which then opens up the middle for the slants and drags that this offense lives on. In fact most of your premise is dead wrong and shows a woeful feel for what the C-2 is. You need a RB who can threaten the edges in the passing game and the running game because in a true C-2 the CBs play the run up front on the outer quarters so if they are threatened you can get WRs in behind them and in front of the safeties..which pull the safeties wide and again open up the middle.
It's a game of cat and mouse, threaten the edges or threaten the seams and hit what they don't cover but having players other teams fear or have to account for makes it go as does a QB who has time to figure it out. There is no magic formula, it's about execution, recognition and players threatening a defense somewhere. We have ONE player who does that, period we need more.
8-10 yards a throw is moving the sticks and what this offense is based on it. Never go broke taking a profit Macs words. A big target would accomplish that. The Ball comes out at 3-4 seconds again this a take what the defense gives you and the Cover 2 can be destroyed by taking those short routes and throws that move the sticks.
Most of the league utilizes a short passing approach. Throwing underneath a cover 2 defense is a by-product of the league shift in offensive patterns. It's more or less a given.
The Giants run 3 WR sets more than any other team, therefore, the defense is in their subpackages most of the game, The nickel back is almost always in the game on the slot receiver.
The way to break the cover 2 is to occupy the free safety, either with a TE that requires constant attention or an effective running game so he has to come up in the box and not sit back eliminating the occasional deep pass.
An effective short passing game can serve as an effective running game in breaking the cover 2 but there has to be a pass catching threat at TE.
Given the fact that we have an aging QB, no running game at all and no threat at TE, the only other possibility would be to have creative play calling to keep the defense guessing and utilize our top 3 WR as much as possible.
Improve OL and run game solves most of the problems. This is the top priority this offseason.
Draft is loaded with excellent TE prospects. Draft one like Leggett in round 2.
I do agree about trips and setting picks like you see every week in NE. O excuses for not doing that ( and more WR screens) in 2016.
Joey ain't pretty, but he's solid enough when it comes to the game. In fact, not pretty is an understatement. the fucker is ugly.
But his posts were solid.
Can we afford to keep the D intact, also fix the OL and also find some reliable perimeter threats or additional O skills players to get this done all in one year?
The better OL play helps the run, and allows time for Eli to throw it deeper as well.
Luckily this draft is loaded at TE into the 1st 3 rounds I presume. Between FA/Draft if there are no additions to OL or TE I think many will be very disappointed.
Let's hope what is obvious to many is also clear to our FO.
Joey ain't pretty, but he's solid enough when it comes to the game. In fact, not pretty is an understatement. the fucker is ugly.
But his posts were solid.
Love the Xs and Os talk.
Deep sideline routes with the Safeties over the top are a RX for Ints. Would rather hit the High % passes and move the sticks (need a TE here this is the draft to get one) and win TOP. Most of the time Beckham took the ball to the house the Defense were not in 2 high and he beat the Safety. Cowboys, Ravens. I will go back and re-watch the games but he beat single high a few times.
and, Vereen, too many head knocks?
or is flowers the coach killer just due to having to revisit OL too often?
Joey ain't pretty, but he's solid enough when it comes to the game. In fact, not pretty is an understatement. the fucker is ugly.
But his posts were solid.
My bowel movements were solid this morning, though not necessarily pretty. I see your point dorgan.
Can we afford to keep the D intact, also fix the OL and also find some reliable perimeter threats or additional O skills players to get this done all in one year?
We're not fucked. We need to address the WR position. That is of utmost importance. We need to improve our protection. How they view Flowers will dictate which path we take to get that done. We do need a RB that we can trust to make a play in the passing game occasionally. A TE who can block will make a world of difference in our run game.
That's not a lot of needs. We're talking 3-4 players.
Attrition usually accounts for 3-4 on each side of the ball in any year, so this isn't a total makeover we're talking.
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both of Joey's posts and disregard the rest of the blather on this thread.
Joey ain't pretty, but he's solid enough when it comes to the game. In fact, not pretty is an understatement. the fucker is ugly.
But his posts were solid.
Love the Xs and Os talk.
Deep sideline routes with the Safeties over the top are a RX for Ints. Would rather hit the High % passes and move the sticks (need a TE here this is the draft to get one) and win TOP. Most of the time Beckham took the ball to the house the Defense were not in 2 high and he beat the Safety. Cowboys, Ravens. I will go back and re-watch the games but he beat single high a few times.
In a cover 2 zone the cbs have flat responsibility, while escorting the outside wr to the safety. There lies a window between the corner and the safety you can hit of the safety isn't too wide. The safeties go wide when they have nothing to fear in the middle of the field. A tall target with exceptional hands going down the seam will keep a safety from thing too wide. The mlb will cover the middle, but again you can fit that ball over the mlb's head before the safety to your big target with soft hands. Soft hands on account he'll take some shots. Cover 2 zone says, you're going to have to methodically drive down the field, which the defense bets, 1. The offense will make a mistake to kill the drive, or, even better the defense will force a turnover by coming up hard to tackle offensive players, hoping for a fumble. And as with a zone, the defenders are facing the qb, which can allow them to jump routes
I'd be a little uncomfortable not upgrading our secondary. You need to maintain a steady stream of young players into your secondary. CBs and FSs get old fast.
That being said, if we can fix 2 of our offensive issues in free agency, I'd look to the premium positions in the draft.
OL, WR CB and DE.
I haven't look at this talent pool much to determine where it's strong, so my opinion is basically worthless on specifics.
(Jamari) Staples ascent from an unheralded recruit to potential early round NFL prospect is one of the best, if underpublicized stories in college football in 2016. He signed with the University of Alabama-Birmingham out of high school, one of just two teams (along with Western Kentucky) to offer him a scholarship but transferred to Louisville prior to the 2015 season after UAB opted to shut down its football program. Despite missing the first four games of the year with a sprained knee, it did not take the long and speedy Staples long to emerge as one of Lamar Jackson's favorite targets, ultimately leading the team with an eye-popping 17.2 yards per reception in his first year with the Cardinals.
With Jackson generating all of the buzz on the way towards winning the Heisman Trophy, Staples was an afterthought for many. He did not generate the type of production most associate with a potential NFL draft pick, catching "just" 37 passes for 638 yards and three touchdowns as a junior and 35 for 593 yards and two scores over the regular season in 2016.
>>>>>>>His long frame and explosiveness on the >>>>perimeter,
however, helped open up the middle for Jackson to gash opponents in the running game and for the Cardinals' "other" pass-catchers to
>>>>feast on crossing routes. A strong performance at the Senior Bowl and Combine could push Staples into the top 100 conversation.
''
You can only hope to survive against the vaunted Cover 2.
Just to add, with our OL play and lack of a stretch TE on top of having predictable play calling, defenses will continue to run the two high safety looks against us. We made below average defenses look like the 85 Bears. We need additional playmakers and more creativity when putting together the offensive game plan. Obviously, it all starts in the trenches and until we put together a competent OL, I don't see much changing.
This is a big factor IMO. Yes a playmaking TE would be a huge help...but defenses knew Eli couldn't count on having the time to drop back and let 12-15 yard or deeper routes develop (like in Gilbrides offense).
It isn't just playing cover 2 - defenses seemed to regularly be stacking 4-5 LBs and safeties in the short slant/out zones, knowing that was our go to play to OBJ. Many people regularly complained we weren't hitting the short slant enough...well, defenses knew we wanted to throw it and were taking it away.
The way to beat that is with deeper combo routes...which require an OL giving the QB time to wait for receivers to break open.
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was the biggest problem, it was Eli having less than 2 seconds to get his throws off.
That was a huge huge problem. Nothing works when the line doesn't afford your QB time. The plays we need to loosen up the zone are only there if you have time and if you don't you have to hope to thread a few slants with a WR who can outrace the zone. If we didn't have Odell we'd have gone 6-10 again.
Answer my 12:00 pm..Show some repcet
1. An offensive line that can open holes - that forces the defense to abandon cover two and bring one safety closer to the L.O.S. - which opens up the deep passing zones .
2. An offensive line that can pass protect gives the QB time to carve up the defense, surveying the field for as many as four or five targets.
3. An offensive line that can hold the L.O.S. gives the QB the opportunity to TURN HIS BACK to the line and sell play-action
4. A good fullback is just like an additional lineman ....
* He can hit the hole (with a head-of-steam, clearing it of linebackers
* Can stay back with the QB for max-protect
* He can sneak through the L.O.S. and be the "hot receiver"
* He can be "quick strike" running weapon that most defenses are not
prepared for
* He can be hard body that helps "chip" the defensive end, on the way
out of the backfield
And on-and-on; we need a fast and/or big complimentary target opposite OBJ; We need a blocking tight end who is also fast enough to stretch the field.
That's a lot of work that will cost $$, just like the 2016 fix of the defense did. (And it may come at the cost of losing JPP - that will HURT, but we may have no choice)