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Did the Giants do a disservice to Cruz this season?

Matt in SGS : 2/1/2017 2:13 pm
First of all, before getting into this, I want to put out a few disclaimers. Cruz has been an outstanding Giant and he will forever be linked to the 2011 championship. Fighting to come back from the knee and calf injuries to play in 15 games, when most thought he was done is a credit to his hard work to come back and play.

That said, going into the 2016 season, it was pretty clear that the Giants were hedging if Cruz would be able to play again or not. Even midway into the pre-season and camp, there seemed to be some lingering questions if he was going to be able to contribute and perhaps find himself cut. Reese himself had said that the Giants were hopeful he could play, but weren't counting on it.

To the end, drafting Sterling Shepard was a clear indicator that the Giants were preparing for life without Cruz, ready to begin as soon as 2016. Shepard was also the heir apparent in the slot, the position which Cruz had made his own after he took over once Steve Smith had moved on after his injuries (Smith had 100+ catches from the slot in 2009 and made the Pro Bowl).

But once the season had started, and we saw that Cruz was going to be able to get on the field, the Giants made the decision to play Cruz on the outside, keep Shepard in the slot, and let Odell do his thing. Cruz was clearly not at his best on the outside. Never really blessed with speed before his injuries, Cruz was ineffective at best on the outside. While he had a handful of decent plays on the outside (the deep pass vs. the Saints to set up the game winning FG), Cruz was invisible most of the season. He caught 3 or fewer passes in a game 10 times. He only scored 1 TD (in the opener).

Meanwhile, Shepard was left in the slot for the season, ended up having a very solid season, 65 catches, 683 yards, 8 TDs, and on several occasions was Eli's target on 4th down, catching passes out of the slot which used to be what Cruz would do.

By the Packers game, it would appear that Tavarres King took over for many of Cruz' snaps.

In all, Cruz had a mediocre 39 catch, 586 yard, 1 TD season.

The question is, would the Giants have gotten more production (and perhaps help the offense) if they had put Cruz back at his slot position and either play Shepard on the outside, or play other WRs (ie- Lewis or King). Once the Giants offense devolved into a one read, if not there, dump off to the running back or TE, passing attack, that put Cruz further at a disadvantage. The first read was almost always going to be Odell. If not, it was going to be a slant in the slot. Cruz was almost never going to be an option on the outside in this offense. So we are left with the question...is Cruz done or was he misused in this offense. AT $9.4 million next year, it's clear that something is going to give, he's not making that money here, and if he wants to stay, he's going to take a huge pay cut. And if his role isn't going to change much from what it was last year, with Shepard established in the slot, would the Giants want to bring him back, and would he even want to come back?
If Cruz was Better than Shepard in the Slot  
shelovesnycsports : 2/1/2017 2:23 pm : link
then he would have seen time there. They never played him there. I would think the two injuries have taken the thing that made Cruz special away, his ability to shake a defender. He didn't separate at all.
Adding to it is that  
area junc : 2/1/2017 2:23 pm : link
Shepard - while solid - was not nearly as explosive as billed.

I'm still bullish but I did not see the superior downfield blocking either. At this point you'd have to laugh at the Steve Smith (Panthers) comparisons - that ain't no Steve Smith.

But as for Cruz - yes, I remember a bunch of us here wondering why he wasn't being given an opportunity in the slot. You've got to wonder if he had a falling out with the coaches, and if he was the (one of the) one(s) rumbling about the scheme being too simple.
I don't think so at all  
Go Terps : 2/1/2017 2:24 pm : link
If anything they paid him when they shouldn't have as a thank you. We may have been better off giving King those snaps.
RE: If Cruz was Better than Shepard in the Slot  
area junc : 2/1/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13346237 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
then he would have seen time there. They never played him there. I would think the two injuries have taken the thing that made Cruz special away, his ability to shake a defender. He didn't separate at all.


See I don't believe this. Just like I don't believe Lewis was better than King.

King showed up huge in the preseason and didn't get the chance he earned by playing well. It's too bad - and the coaches aren't infallible or beyond criticism. It wasn't just the games either, if you went to camp you saw King making several big plays a day. He was their "deep guy". And they just didn't use him.
A disservice to Cruz?  
dep026 : 2/1/2017 2:26 pm : link
He played all year and made quite a bit of money for under performing.

They gave him a chance when in reality they shouldnt have.
the guy's not talking about mara's checkbook  
area junc : 2/1/2017 2:27 pm : link
he's talking about the way he was used by the coaching staff.

our lack of creativity was stunning
I would love to review the season and view the coach's  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 2/1/2017 2:28 pm : link
tape to see if separating was really Cruz's issue. I have a different perspective on this than most.
I think they did what they could  
BillT : 2/1/2017 2:31 pm : link
Shepard was a rookie and was only going to succeed in certain situations. They tried to maximize his effectiveness and he did pretty well. Cruz was a vet and knew all the positions and was used where they needed him. It makes sense in trying to maximize the effectiveness of the whole unit. Lewis and the other WRs weren't that effective no matter where they were used. One super star, one rookie and one compromised vet. It was what it was.
The multiple games I attended this season  
The_Boss : 2/1/2017 2:32 pm : link
Showed me up close and personally that Cruz had no business being outside. He rarely won. Shep had the same problem. In a sense, they were the same player. Both were more effective in the slot. This is why I'm not in favor of bringing Vic back. Get a legit outside threat or determine if Lewis Jr. is the answer.
RE: A disservice to Cruz?  
I Love Clams Casino : 2/1/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13346244 dep026 said:
Quote:
He played all year and made quite a bit of money for under performing.

They gave him a chance when in reality they shouldnt have.


I tend to agree, seems a bit harsh, but it's a business. Giants seems determined to "do good" by their players. It becomes a problem though when it's to the detriment of the team...
no  
Victor in CT : 2/1/2017 2:52 pm : link
they gave him a chance, and actually counted him (stupid) and he sadly was a shell of himself.
That's what I was screaming for...  
Johnny5 : 2/1/2017 2:57 pm : link
... pretty much all year, Matt.
The problem is  
gmen9892 : 2/1/2017 2:58 pm : link
If you are going to be a successful outside receiver, you need to be either:

A) Fast enough to get open deep
or
B) Big enough to outmuscle DB's

Cruz has neither of those attributes. He is quick, which makes him perfect for the slot, and nothing else really. I dont think disservice was the word, but they tried to fit a square peg into a round hole and it simply backfired. They then compounded the mistake by continuing to throw him out there when it was clear that he was not effective.
Hard to know what they saw in practice  
JonC : 2/1/2017 3:00 pm : link
I thought Cruz would get more slot reps if he demonstrated more impact ability than SS, veteran grasp of the assignments and general pro savvy smarts. Perhaps it's as simple as he didn't have it and SS outperformed him.
I went to a few games this year,  
Section331 : 2/1/2017 3:05 pm : link
and it appeared to me that Cruz struggled to get any separation. I don't think moving him inside would have changed much. I would love to be wrong, but I think the injury took too much of his quickness for him to be effective.
Cruz is another guy  
Gman11 : 2/1/2017 3:38 pm : link
that people will complain when he gets released in April and gets signed by another team. They won't believe he's done until they see that he does nothing with the new team. It's the same scenario that we went through with Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks.
who knows  
HomerJones45 : 2/1/2017 3:46 pm : link
who cares at this point. We'll see how he does or doesn't do on his next team.
Huh?  
Ron Johnson 30 : 2/1/2017 4:00 pm : link
What?
Giants did right by Cruz  
WideRight : 2/1/2017 4:07 pm : link
Gave him a chance. The rest was up to him. If could demonstrate that the team would be better off with him in the slot, then it would have been his.
the boss is right  
giantfan2000 : 2/1/2017 5:38 pm : link

giants probably thought Cruz wasn't going to see the field again..

sheppard was drafted to replace Cruz

they were the same player .. giants need a true outside WR and a big TE
and then they will have effective offense

Tavares King is already  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 2/1/2017 5:45 pm : link
Working on next season. He's working with Terrance Edwards (UGA's all time leading WR) in his camp. Heard it that today as Edwards was on DogNation due to national signing day.

IMO they did do him a disservice, they stuck Cruz out of position all year , he had a respectable 500+ yards but he's is not and never was an outside receiver. They did the entire offense a disservice ! Lewis or King should have been on the outside the entire year.

No imagination, both Sheppard and Cruz could have played out of the slot in 4wr sets, or even trips formation.

Now when the cut him it's going to be tougher for him because the tape on him from 2016 is not going to be very Good. Playing him outside all year was just plain stupid . They should have just released him then.
The team took one for Cruz  
jcn56 : 2/1/2017 5:49 pm : link
He's done. I don't wish it on him, but he looked like he was starting to lose it even before the injury. The injury robbed him of something, be it speed or fluidity, that prevents him from getting any separation.

Can't blame them for looking out for one of their own, but they paid for it dearly.
RE: the boss is right  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 2/1/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13346473 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:

giants probably thought Cruz wasn't going to see the field again..

sheppard was drafted to replace Cruz

they were the same player .. giants need a true outside WR and a big TE
and then they will have effective offense
they are not the same player , Sheppard never displayed the big play ability like Cruz did his rookie year. Don't get me wrong I think Sheppard was a great pick, but he's not Cruz . He barely ave 10yds a catch .
IMO, Cruz would have been  
section125 : 2/1/2017 6:00 pm : link
a better slot receiver than Shepard. Eli trusts him. VC reads defense probably better than Shepard. Think he wouold have been better than SS - who was good in the slot.

Thank you Victor for your time and working your ass off for making it back. Not sure if you will return.
I agree 100%  
giantfan2000 : 2/1/2017 6:44 pm : link
cruz in his prime was way better slot receiver
that wheel route was killer

will be interesting where cruz ends up next year.

No. The Giants won 11 games. Cruz was "dependable" but  
CT Charlie : 2/1/2017 6:57 pm : link
no longer a threat. He used to be terrific; now he's adequate at best. But if there was someone Eli preferred as a target, that guy would have been on the field a lot more. Shepard? He had a solid rookie season -- he's a good second round pick who'll be significantly better next year if he stays healthy.
I ll take Cruz back  
spike : 2/1/2017 6:58 pm : link
only as the no 4 WR.
If you go back and watch week 1 I thought cruz  
halfback20 : 2/1/2017 7:42 pm : link
Was pretty effective. I'm not sure if he was in the slot then at all, but I feel like they used him differently as the season went on.

The DISSERVICE  
David B. : 2/1/2017 7:47 pm : link
was the OL, the lack of TEs and FBs. That effected everyone including Cruz, but the real disservice was to Eli.
Nope be honest  
Carl in CT : 2/1/2017 8:01 pm : link
Cruz is past his prime and some could say he sucks as a WR 2. Bottom line, probably our first casualty.
I don't necessarily agree that  
Thunderstruck27 : 2/1/2017 9:14 pm : link
Shepard is a better slot WR than Cruz.
Just like I wouldn't agree that Apple is a better CB than DRC.
Both vets played out of their natural position in place of a rookie. The difference is that DRC did an admirable job and Cruz barely made a difference.
In his defense, I think Cruz would have been more productive out of the slot...but Shepard did a great job.
Here's a question:  
trueblueinpw : 2/1/2017 9:38 pm : link
What player on the Giants offense didn't underperform this past season? Our offense was freaking pathetic. Cruz on the outside as an X was a bizzare and obvious mistake. But what was really confounding was that our offense didn't change from game 1 all the way through to game 17. Like, how did things go in the coaches meetings on Monday?

Ben: Not a lot of production on offense this past week boys. What's the plan to fix the problem?

Sully: Yeah boss, we're thinking next game we'll line up in the same formation and run the same plays. How's that sound?

Ben: Great idea Sully! You guys keep up the good work while I check out what Spags is up to with defense.

I bet Cruz winds up in NE next year and has a great season "doing his job".
Cruz did all right when he had the ball thrown to him.  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 2/1/2017 9:40 pm : link
If this was his last season with the Giants, let's be fair to the guy. He had ten catches of over 20 yards, Shepard had six. He caught two sidelines bombs of almost 50 yards, Shepard's longest catch was 32 yards. He averaged 15 yards per catch, Shepard a little more than 10. Cruz couldn't match Shepard's production when Shepard was targeted over 30 more times.

But if the coaches and the game film say that Cruz has had it then just have to accept that and move on. The bigger question may be if Shepard has more to offer than he showed as a rookie. He wasn't very explosive or elusive. Very good at going past the first down markers and getting open for the first down.
Hindsight is 20 20  
xman : 2/1/2017 9:43 pm : link
do the same thing this year and its likely labelled a crime
There is no way you can compare  
Doomster : 2/1/2017 10:45 pm : link
SS playing the slot in 2016, to Cruz playing the slot in 2011....

The Giants chose his successor for the slot in the draft.  
Torrag : 2/1/2017 11:08 pm : link
Why? Because they couldn't rely on him to be healthy and produce. They also protected him and his brittle legs from all the stop/start/cutting/CoD and bending contact he'd be forced to endure playing primarily inside.

So did they do him a disservice? No, they did him a favor.
RE: RE: the boss is right  
JPinstripes : 2/2/2017 1:49 am : link
In comment 13346485 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
In comment 13346473 giantfan2000 said:


Quote:



giants probably thought Cruz wasn't going to see the field again..

sheppard was drafted to replace Cruz

they were the same player .. giants need a true outside WR and a big TE
and then they will have effective offense


they are not the same player , Sheppard never displayed the big play ability like Cruz did his rookie year. Don't get me wrong I think Sheppard was a great pick, but he's not Cruz . He barely ave 10yds a catch .


Shepard rookie season 65 catches - Cruz rookie season 0 catches... Are you referencing Cruz preseason performance his rookie year for the "big play ability rookie comparison?"
JP, can't count that as his  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 2/2/2017 5:42 am : link
Rookie season as the Giants hid him on IR.
RE: the guy's not talking about mara's checkbook  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/2/2017 6:52 am : link
In comment 13346247 area junc said:
Quote:
he's talking about the way he was used by the coaching staff.

our lack of creativity was stunning


This. Why couldn't Sheppard run some otherness routes. The Giants usually have their WRs learn all
The routes don't they?
interesting re: King due to  
idiotsavant : 2/2/2017 7:32 am : link
per the Joey and Dorgan on 'beating the cover two' thread we need a tall fast outside receiver to draw d backs away from Odell on crossing routes etc;

BBI says this about King:

'King is a tall, thin receiver with very good speed. He is not a physical player and is best suited as an outside receiver.'

so why we didn't see more of him is a mystery
unless they were 'saving king for the playoffs'  
idiotsavant : 2/2/2017 7:34 am : link
injury wise, which I don't really believe since that's a crazy concept. you play your best each game and win one at a time.
He Was Valient  
Suburbanites : 2/2/2017 7:43 am : link
In attempting to come back from a catastrophic injury, in restrospect given the severity of his primary injury and the other injury he developed compensating for the first one, the odds of him truly making it back were long and unfortunately it just wasn't to be. I don't believe the theory that he needed a full season to knock off the ring rust, he simply can't get seperatiion. I don't see him making the Giants or any other roster. In the end he came out of nowhere and had 3 big seasons. His 99 yard Christmas Eve TD reception against the loudmouth Jets will live on as one of the most historical plays in NY sports history. I can see Victor being the subject of a future 30 for 30 but not a receiver in the NFL.
Cruz was one of those crazy value pickups that really  
idiotsavant : 2/2/2017 7:51 am : link
saved seasons and seasons for this team once nicks declined.
Cruz is not a great Giant  
djstat : 2/2/2017 10:26 am : link
That's right I said it. Two good seasons. An average 2013 and then nothing.

Lousy leader who went to Miami this year rather then lead his teammates.
RE: Cruz was one of those crazy value pickups that really  
djstat : 2/2/2017 10:28 am : link
In comment 13346794 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
saved seasons and seasons for this team once nicks declined.
Seasons and Seasons?

2011 - 82, 1536 9 TDs
2012 - 86, 1092 10 Tds
2013 - 73, 998 4 TDS
2014 - 23, 337 1
2015 - Appeared on ballers
2016 - 39, 586 1 TD

He had two good seasons. THATS IT
Can't possibly want Cruz back next year. He provides  
Jimmy Googs : 2/2/2017 10:40 am : link
little to no productivity but for a lazy CB or a perfect pass from Eli.

To call his season "mediocre" is being kind.

Applaud the comeback, and will always love Cruz for what he brought that Super Bowl season, but its over...
If the offensive line had done it's job,  
Since1965 : 2/2/2017 10:20 pm : link
they could have gone with 4 receiver sets and then Sheppard and Cruz could both have played a type of slot receiver position at the same time which would have maximized both of their talents and placed a receiver with more speed as the fourth guy on the outside.
RE: RE: Cruz was one of those crazy value pickups that really  
adamg : 2/2/2017 11:02 pm : link
In comment 13347017 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13346794 idiotsavant said:


Quote:


saved seasons and seasons for this team once nicks declined.

Seasons and Seasons?

2011 - 82, 1536 9 TDs
2012 - 86, 1092 10 Tds
2013 - 73, 998 4 TDS
2014 - 23, 337 1
2015 - Appeared on ballers
2016 - 39, 586 1 TD

He had two good seasons. THATS IT


Maybe a pluralizing typo?

Cruz lost me this year with two things:

1. His complaining about targets seemed very immature and unwarranted given his lack of flash.

2. His role in the Miami nonsense. He should have known better and been a true leader for his guys. He let Beckham take a ton of shit for that and then came out after the fact on some podcast to say they shouldn't have gone. That was weak.

Those two situations showed how little Cruz functioned/s as a vet leader on this team.
If he truly wants to finish his career in NYG  
David B. : 2/3/2017 9:39 am : link
And accepts coming back cheap and being a #4 WR, I don't have a big problem with that. That would seem unlikely.

It's POSSIBLE (though not likely) that he might be a little better next year with the injury another year further behind him. It's also likely that if the OL and TE situation improves, and the offense can use more formations, he could be a more effective contributor than he was this year.

But at this point, he'd be relegated to being a role player.
The problem with keeping  
PEEJ : 2/3/2017 9:52 am : link
Cruz in a reserve role is that he doesn't contribute on STs.
RE: A disservice to Cruz?  
dboom : 2/3/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13346244 dep026 said:
Quote:
He played all year and made quite a bit of money for under performing.

They gave him a chance when in reality they shouldnt have.


Exactly. Cruz wouldn't have cracked the top 3 on a lot of teams. The fact he was still on the roster showed an unprecedented amount of faith in Cruz.

I'll be surprised if Cruz makes the final roster if he's picked up by another team.
RE: The problem with keeping  
adamg : 2/3/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13348060 PEEJ said:
Quote:
Cruz in a reserve role is that he doesn't contribute on STs.


+1000
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