He did a Q& A last night and had some interesting takes. Here is a brief wrapup from what I remember. Some of these are common knowledge, but he seems to be tied in to the Giants more than others as he was all over the Leonard Floyd, Conklin stuff last year. I found some of it interesting.
-No TE in round 1 unless it is OJ Howard. Big no to Gerald Everett.
-Doesn't think the Giants like Ryan Ramczyk. 1 year starter, might not love football.
-Zach Cunningham is definitely a possibility.
-Giants will try to sign JPP, but he will find out his market value.
-The Giants LOVE Darian Thompson
-Snacks Harrison is the most important voice in the locker room per a poll he took last year, more than Eli.
-Whitworth makes a lot of sense, lines up with Eli. Reiff is probably not a big enough upgrade.
-Matt LaCosse has a role if he can stay healthy.
-Early prediction for round 1 is Carl Lawson, but he is holding back until closer.
Ouch!
Owa counts as an NFL player? He has almost no film at the NFL level.
Good to hear about Thompson. He showed a lot early on before he went down.
Looking for Floyd 2.0, it seems
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tweeners from SEC.
Looking for Floyd 2.0, it seems
Floyd 2.0? I like Tim Williams just as much as I liked Floyd a year ago and I was high on Floyd before his name was tied to the Giants. I think Floyd had that quick twitch and bend but Williams has the speed and better power.
Cunningham makes a lot of sense though.
How deep is his love is the real question.
DOUBLE OUCH!!
I would love for Humphrey out of AL to fall to us. Plus, there's a lot of big WRs with 2-4 round grades who can be our X guy, and TEs in the same range who can upgrade that spot. We lucked out in some ways (outside of the dearth of OT talent) with how the talent has fallen.
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his NFL player comparison ... Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Ouch!
Awesome
I don't either. But there's a ton of talent at CB/S that it wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility.
p.s.-- And there are a few OL I'm liking in round two--Dion Dawkins, Taylor Moton, Roderick Johnson--just in case we miss out on one in round one.
But it's still early, so names will be added and a couple or so could fall.
Wait for it.... - ( New Window )
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Whitworth is the top target of the Giants in FA. He said Reiff is a solid starter but wasn't good enough to warrant a contract by the G Men based on our needs (i.e. between Reiff and Flowers, we'd be lacking). So, it sounds like we'll go HARD at Whitworth.
Whitworth doesn't fit the Giants philosophy of signing younger free agents. Zeitler is the man who best fits their profile. But we're all just guessing--including Ranaan--until March 7th.
No shit we're all guessing. But, going by the beat guy who has the best track record:
The only feasible starting left tackle is Whitworth.
Why would we target an expensive RG in FA? We can get a decent guard in the draft. The whole point is that there are no alternatives for getting a starting LT than Whitworth.
Still beating that drum I see. Never mind what everyone associated with the Giants says about THompson or all but a few stubborn fans that can see have said about Thompson. You're right. Thompson showed nothing.
Just because the Giants prefer to sign the second contract 26 year old player in FA doesn't mean they won't or shouldn't go after the stop gap player. The Giants situation begs for that kind of player on offense. Honestly i'd be leery of giving out a long term monster contract to any outside FAs anyway. The Giants have a lot of younger players due to make big bucks. They need to be smart.
I'm sure hoping that the Giants put out misinformation this year.
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..Those handful of snaps he took was legendary.
Still beating that drum I see. Never mind what everyone associated with the Giants says about THompson or all but a few stubborn fans that can see have said about Thompson. You're right. Thompson showed nothing.
Agree djm. Thompson elevated this defense, great pairing with Collins. Such a bummer that we lost him for the year.
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..Those handful of snaps he took was legendary.
Still beating that drum I see. Never mind what everyone associated with the Giants says about THompson or all but a few stubborn fans that can see have said about Thompson. You're right. Thompson showed nothing.
LOL yes,the third rounder who played one game... yeah we should all believe he is the second coming... who are we to question anything
Otherwise, Zietler is probably too expensive with long term deals for Pugh and Richburg approaching.
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In comment 13347498 adamg said:
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Whitworth is the top target of the Giants in FA. He said Reiff is a solid starter but wasn't good enough to warrant a contract by the G Men based on our needs (i.e. between Reiff and Flowers, we'd be lacking). So, it sounds like we'll go HARD at Whitworth.
Whitworth doesn't fit the Giants philosophy of signing younger free agents. Zeitler is the man who best fits their profile. But we're all just guessing--including Ranaan--until March 7th.
No shit we're all guessing. But, going by the beat guy who has the best track record:
The only feasible starting left tackle is Whitworth.
Why would we target an expensive RG in FA? We can get a decent guard in the draft. The whole point is that there are no alternatives for getting a starting LT than Whitworth.
The reason to target an expensive RG in FA would be the belief that he is the best OL available in free agency under thirty (and nine years younger than the OT you covet). He is a veteran who immediately improves the running game. Do you really think a rookie OG is going to step in and improve upon what they are getting from John Jerry? Even if you believe it's possible, can you count it?
Whitworth would be a stop-gap, temporary solution with an unpredictable shelf-life. You know exactly what you're getting in Zeitler who would slide right in at the right guard position he's played all his career. And you won't have to deal with a ton of dead money in two or three years.
A lot depends on their plan for Flowers and how they view the OL talent in the draft (not to mention their views on the OL in free agency). Do they want to give him another shot at left tackle with Pugh as insurance? None of us know the answer, we're all just speculating based on our own opinion. So if Ranaan shares your opinion, you find him a credible source. If Ranaan doesn't share your opinion, you take what he said with a grain of salt. I don't share his opinions, ergo.......
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In comment 13347394 est1986 said:
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..Those handful of snaps he took was legendary.
Still beating that drum I see. Never mind what everyone associated with the Giants says about THompson or all but a few stubborn fans that can see have said about Thompson. You're right. Thompson showed nothing.
LOL yes,the third rounder who played one game... yeah we should all believe he is the second coming... who are we to question anything
Yeah agree on the one game, but Thompson clearly showed the coaches more than enough to know he was the goods. I recall McAdoo or Spags basically announcing him the starter and it was like the 3rd day of camp...
not to mention the investment in Jenkins. Cannot invest that much in one position, especially with sketchy success.
Need that next CB to come cheaply either with a 3rd+ round pick that works out or veteran FA CB. Your 3rd CB really can't be a 1st round pick or significant FA $$ investment if you have holes elsewhere.
But if this team rolls out those same 5 guys in the same 5 positions as they did in 2016, we are not really going anywhere...
Who else is mentioned besides Lawson? Or is this just something you're hearing?
But if this team rolls out those same 5 guys in the same 5 positions as they did in 2016, we are going anywhere...
Well, there is backwards.
But in the intervening years he came to UW. Had to wait a year to play (but practiced) excelled, played through injuries, widely respected by teammates and decided to enter the draft. It could easily be a person who has matured, done things his way but is ready to play NFL football.
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In comment 13347518 Milton said:
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In comment 13347498 adamg said:
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Whitworth is the top target of the Giants in FA. He said Reiff is a solid starter but wasn't good enough to warrant a contract by the G Men based on our needs (i.e. between Reiff and Flowers, we'd be lacking). So, it sounds like we'll go HARD at Whitworth.
Whitworth doesn't fit the Giants philosophy of signing younger free agents. Zeitler is the man who best fits their profile. But we're all just guessing--including Ranaan--until March 7th.
No shit we're all guessing. But, going by the beat guy who has the best track record:
The only feasible starting left tackle is Whitworth.
Why would we target an expensive RG in FA? We can get a decent guard in the draft. The whole point is that there are no alternatives for getting a starting LT than Whitworth.
I thought Vachiano was the one with the best track record. Either way, in my mind unless he is claiming reliable sources, his credibility is no greater than anyone's.
The reason to target an expensive RG in FA would be the belief that he is the best OL available in free agency under thirty (and nine years younger than the OT you covet). He is a veteran who immediately improves the running game. Do you really think a rookie OG is going to step in and improve upon what they are getting from John Jerry? Even if you believe it's possible, can you count it?
Whitworth would be a stop-gap, temporary solution with an unpredictable shelf-life. You know exactly what you're getting in Zeitler who would slide right in at the right guard position he's played all his career. And you won't have to deal with a ton of dead money in two or three years.
A lot depends on their plan for Flowers and how they view the OL talent in the draft (not to mention their views on the OL in free agency). Do they want to give him another shot at left tackle with Pugh as insurance? None of us know the answer, we're all just speculating based on our own opinion. So if Ranaan shares your opinion, you find him a credible source. If Ranaan doesn't share your opinion, you take what he said with a grain of salt. I don't share his opinions, ergo.......
If we follow your plan, we have Flowers and Hart as our starting OTs going into 2017. Plus all our big money on the line is tied up in the middle of the line with Pugh hitting FA and Richburg soon to follow.
I'd love to be able to only target young FAs, but our needs don't conform with the market. The only starting LT on the market who's elite is 35 years old. Unless we can swing some kind of trade for Joe Thomas or Joe Stanley, it's Whitworth or nothing. Otherwise, Flowers continues to man a spot no one - including Jerry Reese - thinks he's absolutely best suited for.
He is a ball hawk who got a lot of picks in college but is very instinctual as well. Spags loved the kid from the Start,
If we follow your plan, we have Flowers and Hart as our starting OTs going into 2017. Plus all our big money on the line is tied up in the middle of the line with Pugh hitting FA and Richburg soon to follow.
I'd love to be able to only target young FAs, but our needs don't conform with the market. The only starting LT on the market who's elite is 35 years old. Unless we can swing some kind of trade for Joe Thomas or Joe Stanley, it's Whitworth or nothing. Otherwise, Flowers continues to man a spot no one - including Jerry Reese - thinks he's absolutely best suited for.
So we go into mini-camps and training camp with....
Flowers
Pugh
Richburg
Zeitler
Newhouse
Hart
Jones
Rookie draft pick
...with the rookie competing for a starting job at either left tackle or right tackle depending on the particular rookie. Flowers meanwhile continues working at left tackle to see what kind of progress he is making and what the coaches think is his best position. Pugh's ability to play left tackle also comes into play as the fail safe option.
So my plan comes with plenty of flexibility and a worst case scenario that is still an improvement on the 2016 OL. I'm just not crazy about the OT options in free agency.
Lawson doesn't have it. Not impossible but not likely IMHO
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If we follow your plan, we have Flowers and Hart as our starting OTs going into 2017. Plus all our big money on the line is tied up in the middle of the line with Pugh hitting FA and Richburg soon to follow.
I'd love to be able to only target young FAs, but our needs don't conform with the market. The only starting LT on the market who's elite is 35 years old. Unless we can swing some kind of trade for Joe Thomas or Joe Stanley, it's Whitworth or nothing. Otherwise, Flowers continues to man a spot no one - including Jerry Reese - thinks he's absolutely best suited for.
If we follow my plan, the interior OL is Pugh, Richburg, and Zeitler. We also re-sign Newhouse to a two or three year veteran backup salary with incentives for playing time. In the draft we target Ramczyk and Robinson (and perhaps Bolles) in the first round, but failing that, we possibly target Moton and Dawkins (and perhaps Johnson) in round two and/or Wheeler, Garcia, Bisnowatty, Banner, Sharpe, etc., in rounds three and four.
So we go into mini-camps and training camp with....
Flowers
Pugh
Richburg
Zeitler
Newhouse
Hart
Jones
Rookie draft pick
...with the rookie competing for a starting job at either left tackle or right tackle depending on the particular rookie. Flowers meanwhile continues working at left tackle to see what kind of progress he is making and what the coaches think is his best position. Pugh's ability to play left tackle also comes into play as the fail safe option.
So my plan comes with plenty of flexibility and a worst case scenario that is still an improvement on the 2016 OL. I'm just not crazy about the OT options in free agency.
And if we go after Whitworth, we can have an immediate return for 2017 (and possibly 2018), and, if the draft falls right (i.e. Moton in the 2nd or Davenport in the 3rd/4th), we can have sustained, cost controlled contingencies in place for the rest of the line when he leaves. Whitworth's contract would come off the books when OBJ et al. hit re-up time, and our line pieces are cost controlled for another 2-3 years.
You also didn't contradict my point at all, that we'd still have Flowers and Hart as our starting OTs which btw was the biggest problem with our line this year. RG wasn't our weak spot, and it doesn't behoove Reese to invest the biggest contract into that spot, especially when - worst case (i.e. we don't find a soul in the draft) - we can re-sign Jerry to man the spot again for a tenth of what Zeitler will command. Spotrac has Zeitler's market value set at 11.6 mill per. We can potentially sign both Whitworth and Jerry for that much with room to spare.
Worst case with Whitworth:
Whitworth-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Flowers Hart/Newhouse/Jones
Potential with Whitworth:
Whitworth-Pugh-Richburg-Moton-Flowers Hart/Newhouse/Jerry
In 3 years, Whitworth should be a factor as he'll be off the books. Any contract for AW should only be for 2-3 years. He is not a building block for the roster, but rather a stopgap.
This is a little strawman-ny here. Whitworth has been getting short extension deals from Cincy. They wanted him to move to LG and take a pay cut as well, but he wants LT money no matter where they decide to play him, so it seems like it might just be in both interests to move on. A two year deal is seemingly ideal for him. He's 35 (or 36 if you want to exaggerate completely). No one is signing him to a deal where they'd have to worry about cap space in 2-3 years.
Milton, it might be better simply to buy time to see how Flowers develops and not make a long term investment in players--either in FA or the draft-- that they are not exactly enamored with. Pay Whitworth for two years, assuming he is amenable, move Flowers to RT and see if there is improvement. If there isn't at least you can move on from him, more confident that you have better information. You could draft someone like Wheeler in the 3rd who Boylhart loves-- and groom hi to replace Whittworth when he leaves. Conversely, you might not draft a OT this year, look at the RGs, and maybe draft an OT in next year's draft if the crop is better.
In 3 years, Whitworth should be a factor as he'll be off the books. Any contract for AW should only be for 2-3 years. He is not a building block for the roster, but rather a stopgap.
But we're all just guessing. No one disputes that both Zeitler and Whitworth would improve the Giants, the question is who will give them better bang for their buck if they only have money for one or the other. I'm guessing the Giants and Whitworth will not be in agreement on his value, whereas the Giants and Zeitler will agree on value. But if you're guessing "the field" you have much better odds of being correct.
And yes that spending will likely come from some re-allocation of defensive spending, but trotting out that same O-line and hoping they play better next year is not a plan.
I agree. A sneaky far too easy way to fix this OL might be in signing that LT from Cincy. Older but won't kill the cap long term and gives Flowers a chance to try his talents at an another spot. This strategy has worked before with the Giants many times. Most recently with Pugh. Even going as far back as William Roberts. HE too was drafted high as a tackle. Shifted to guard and shined. You just hope this dude at 35 has the wheels to go for a few more games...