Flowers' Struggles- How much of it is the issues on O?

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Flowers has centered on lack of techniques. Otherwise, they say he's got all the physical tools to be very good..Hopefully, Solari in year 2 can finally get him pointed in the right direction

I just don't know. I cant help but think that the fact the defense knows exactly what we are doing/shutting things down (cover 2) can't be helpful.

Pittsburgh game that Flowers would be great with the Steelers because they use a more aggressive, physically dominant style on the OL.

DEs do not just tee off all the time against him. His problem is his feet are a mess, he bends at his waist, his elbows are out, his hands are low, he grabs and doesn't strike, etc.

In comment 13348599 Victor in CT said:

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Pittsburgh game that Flowers would be great with the Steelers because they use a more aggressive, physically dominant style on the OL.

I do remember that....Part of why I brought it up. I know nothing about OL schemes, etc.

Including Anthony Davis, who I know isn't easy to work with.

QB pressures allowed 2 years in a row?

Eli is getting rid of the ball at a record pace. Our offense is designed to get rid of the ball quickly. How much worse would Flowers be if we ran Gilbride's offense with a lot of 5 and 7 step drop concepts?

In comment 13348602 robbieballs2003 said:

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DEs do not just tee off all the time against him. His problem is his feet are a mess, he bends at his waist, his elbows are out, his hands are low, he grabs and doesn't strike, etc.

In addition, Eli Manning has one of the fastest releases of NFL quarterbacks. He averages 2.59 seconds. Part of it is play design and part is due to the inability of the OL to provide protection. If Flowers and the OL in general can't manage fundamental technique for 3 seconds, then no one should be secure in their position.

has acted like an asshole since he got here and has played like one too.

In comment 13348610 robbieballs2003 said:

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Eli is getting rid of the ball at a record pace. Our offense is designed to get rid of the ball quickly. How much worse would Flowers be if we ran Gilbride's offense with a lot of 5 and 7 step drop concepts?

If Eli was still able to walk, one can assume that he would have set a historical NFL record for interceptions with his patented "Chuck and Duck".

And years under high quality coaching and still cant manage the most basic of OL techniques. I can see bad feet maybe being not so easy to overcome, but something like not bending at the waist, keeping elbows in, delivering a punch, etc are just a matter of practice/reps. The kid needs to work much harder.

In comment 13348599 Victor in CT said:

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Pittsburgh game that Flowers would be great with the Steelers because they use a more aggressive, physically dominant style on the OL.

If we are talking about the running game I agree. The Giants use a zone blocking scheme in the running game, whereas the Steelers just try to overpower their opponents in true smash mouth form. However, Flowers issues have really been in pass blocking, which I doubt would be any different if he was a Steeler.

I've said Ereck Flowers does not trust his own feet, so he does what he thinks he can to try to be in a position to move sideways (not bend and carry his hands low) ...

When he does get beat (which is pretty often), he grabs and horse collars the opponent.

Bottom line, this will be the 2nd high draft pick offensive tackle who will be forced to go to a guard position because he couldn't cut it at the position he was drafted for.

would do more for Flowers. Move him inside where his technique flaws will be less of a problem, and allow him to develop. He may never be a LT, but he can still be a dominating force on the OL.

...you've got it backwards. if the O-line was better we'd see more plays by the skill guys...not the other way around. That was evident watching the games in real time. The line struggled. Period. There is no need to over think it.

in the pro boxing game that could overpower the average heavyweight. But, they lacked boxing skill and, possibly,
sharp reflexes. So, they were murdered in the ring by much smaller men.
J. Reese, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Get your scouts and yourself to learn how to evaluate
football talent.

On several levels, that I've heard here, in quite a while, Blackbeard

Whitworth and draft a guard within the first three rounds, this is a very good draft for guards. Let Flowers fight it out with Hart for the right tackle spot, let the new guard fight it out with Jones and Jerry. The left side is solid with Whitworth, Pugh, and Richburg. I have heard enough excuses for this player, time to put up or out the door he goes, he must know the situation is urgent, then we will see what he does. I would be OK if the Giants drafted two linemen and added Whitworth. It's time to make more drastic moves, the subtle ones that Reese has made have failed and is the main reason this offense has not progressed the way it should have.

... with Flowers. He is a disaster and the Giants can not accept that level of play at LT next season. He either needs to get his shit together, find a new home on the line, or get his ass on the bench ... either as a reserve or inactive.

The kid has been in the league a couple years now and doesn't seem to be getting any better.

In comment 13348959 Mike in Philly said:

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The kid has been in the league a couple years now and doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Hard to point the finger there when it's two different coaches.

Flowers is an awful left tackle and arguably the worst in all of football. If Reese doesn't pick him #9 in the entire draft there is little chance he would be playing,let alone starting. Would he be better somewhere else on the line? We have a very small window now with Eli and having Flowers at left tackle greatly reduces the Giants chances for another championship.

I'd say the best place it would be at right guard (could he be the next Brandon Sherrf ?), let's hope so.

But like I said, that's two high draft choices who were going to be "answers" at tackle - Flowers and Pugh, who aren't.

Reese did very well on the draft last year, but whoever he has telling him what offensive linemen to draft has to go,

The guy is a complete waste of time and has little talent to compete at this level be it at LT or RT or G. At best this guy was a middle round pick, at best. Not smart, no technique and has already gotten one OL coach fired and is working on his second. As stated many times if not for covering Reese's ass on this pick I believe this guy would be out of the NFL. Move on, Hart, Jerry and Newhouse are better which means little since they are below average at best. Rated at the bottom of all NFL LT's. Poor Eli

but I also think strangely enough he would've been a much better RT in TC/KG offense. it may sound crazy because it was all deep drops but that offensive scheme did a great job keeping the DE's at bay by pounding on them.

Power off tackle to the Right, then build play action off it and the DE is tied in knots and can't just run around the OT.

Obviously I do not like this scheme, I don't think McAdoo does enough to keep teams/players off balance and hope he develops. It is certainly something he can learn.

In comment 13348712 Manny in CA said:

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Bottom line, this will be the 2nd high draft pick offensive tackle who will be forced to go to a guard position because he couldn't cut it at the position he was drafted for.

Not true. Pugh can play tackle.

to the predictability of the Offense. Defenders that do not have to worry about variation, play-action, misdirection, etc will clearly sell themselves out more off the line of scrimmage. This only makes it that much harder to block a 300lb guy who basically knows whats coming.

That being said, Flowers still sucks at LT and has shown minimal to no development as of the end of his 2nd season.

went way overboard on this kid

watch his feet, how he plays high with hands low and turns, his techniques are terrible, sadly, he is immature and may never get it or only get it after he's gone from here and another team picks him up

he needs to work this offseason

(Not sure if you're being mildly sarcastic) ...

Mr. "Shortarms", was struggling, last time I saw him playing tackle.

pass pro is. I don't see how better TE's, RB's and WR's changes that.

In comment 13348670 Taggart said:

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And years under high quality coaching and still cant manage the most basic of OL techniques. I can see bad feet maybe being not so easy to overcome, but something like not bending at the waist, keeping elbows in, delivering a punch, etc are just a matter of practice/reps. The kid needs to work much harder.

This.
And don't forget strength. Didn't he have the best bench at his combine? The only explanation I can see is a severe learning disability and/or no work ethic. I think he succeeded in college strictly on size, strength, and power. For the first time in his life that's not enough.

In comment 13349350 Manny in CA said:

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(Not sure if you're being mildly sarcastic) ... Mr. "Shortarms", was struggling, last time I saw him playing tackle.

He's still the best OT on this team. Maybe that doesn't say much but until Giants can get at least one OT who plays better I think it's safe to say his struggles have been overblown. IMO Pugh is a better guard than tackle but a team can win with Pugh at either tackle spot.

but thats kind of like saying Danny Kanell was a better quarterback than Dave Brown.

You shouldn't have to make a decision like that.

In comment 13348594 drkenneth said:

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I just don't know. I cant help but think that the fact the defense knows exactly what we are doing/shutting things down (cover 2) can't be helpful.

I agree and this is exactly the whole point, we aren't good enough to let teams know what we are going to do before we do it and therein lies a big part of the problem..