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My vote for signing Cordarrelle Patterson in FA

Big Blue '56 : 2/9/2017 8:32 am
I agree with many here who feel we need a taller wideout option to OBJ..I think 6' 2" is tall enough, albeit you might not think so..

He'll be 26 next month, had a pretty good year with 52 receptions, a career high..He's an All-Pro Kick returner which would be vital to us if we decide to move on from Harris..Most importantly, he might not be all that expensive..

Some feel(see linked article) his greatest asset is as KR and they could be right, but he might have finally begun to come into his own as a receiver, which might be the best time to nab him, imv.

We might wind up going the draft route and that's ok with me, but if we opt for a young, FA WR, this is my choice as a fan..
Link - ( New Window )
I could see it if Harris is cut  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2017 8:39 am : link
I liked Harris as a gunner, but feel he was underwhelming as a KR/PR and useless as a WR.

3.8M is a lot to pay a gunner IMO.
Patterson is a tremendous athlete.  
ktinsc : 2/9/2017 8:44 am : link
If he has turned a corner in regards to his route running then he would be a great addition. If that is the case he would qualify as a very late bloomer. He has a history through his years in Knoxville of not improving his route running.
I'd have a hard time trusting his catching and route running  
Giantology : 2/9/2017 8:49 am : link
But would be excited to have him as a return specialist.
RE: I'd have a hard time trusting his catching and route running  
EricJ : 2/9/2017 8:50 am : link
In comment 13355183 Giantology said:
Quote:
But would be excited to have him as a return specialist.


Ha!! I was just about to criticize his route running too
no thanks. He plays so much smaller than his size  
jlukes : 2/9/2017 8:52 am : link
he is fast and a good kick returning, but really completely underwhelming as a WR.

The only plays he makes as a WR are when he gets the ball in his hands early - he never uses his size to catch balls downfield or in the redzone
I like Patterson.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/9/2017 8:54 am : link
Norv runs a complicated offense. He always seemed to handle the questions about him and his situation in a positive way. However, when Zimmer wanted a friend of his to mentor him he chose to do his own thing. There is something peculiar about him. I am not going to be upset if he isn't a target but anybody has to be intrigued with his upside. And, bare minimum he helps out on specials tremendously. As GM I would be doing as much homework as I could on him.
I was going to post a CP thread yesterday  
GiantsLaw : 2/9/2017 8:54 am : link
He did really seem to have turned the corner last year. He was in Zimmer's doghouse for basically all of 2015 reportedly for not knowing the playbook. He kept his head down, worked hard and earned his way back onto the field. I also think his ability to take the top off the defense wasn't utilized at all last year (or ever) in Minny cause Bradford/Bridgewater do not throw downfield. CP is also an excellent gunner and blocker.

Another Minny UFA WR to watch is Thielen.
meh on Patterson  
Torrag : 2/9/2017 8:55 am : link
Just hasn't been consistent at all or productive enough. One trick pony that can run a fly route but has little nuance to his game. Pass.
Minnesota has also had crap at WR for awhile until Diggs was drafted.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/9/2017 8:57 am : link
If he comes here I think he'd benefit a ton by watching how much work Beckham puts into his game.
no thanks  
giants#1 : 2/9/2017 9:01 am : link
Maybe if he was also a punt returner, but he's only returned 1 punt in 4 seasons and thanks to the new KO rules, KO returns are decreasing in importance. Only 25 returns last season which is ~25% below his previous career low.

And he's not a strong P/K coverage guy and useless as a WR. While he may not be quite as explosive with the ball in his hands, Harris also has the ability to take short passes and turn them into big gains. But Harris can also run other routes (see 2015). And in CP's 'breakout' this year, he averaged a whopping 8.7 yards/catch. That's basically Will Tye.

Harris is our best P/K coverage guy (by a decent margin) and people want to cut him? While CP may not cost a lot, I doubt he's any cheaper than Harris.
RE: I was going to post a CP thread yesterday  
giants#1 : 2/9/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13355190 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
He did really seem to have turned the corner last year. He was in Zimmer's doghouse for basically all of 2015 reportedly for not knowing the playbook. He kept his head down, worked hard and earned his way back onto the field. I also think his ability to take the top off the defense wasn't utilized at all last year (or ever) in Minny cause Bradford/Bridgewater do not throw downfield. CP is also an excellent gunner and blocker.

Another Minny UFA WR to watch is Thielen.


Bradford didn't throw downfield because their OL was even worse than ours. He would've been killed if he held the ball long enough to go downfield.

Bridgewater lacked the deep threat to get it down the field and played behind a poor OL (Giants 2016 quality). Patterson hasn't shown any ability to be a deep threat despite his speed.
RE: I like Patterson.  
Patrick77 : 2/9/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13355189 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Norv runs a complicated offense. He always seemed to handle the questions about him and his situation in a positive way. However, when Zimmer wanted a friend of his to mentor him he chose to do his own thing. There is something peculiar about him. I am not going to be upset if he isn't a target but anybody has to be intrigued with his upside. And, bare minimum he helps out on specials tremendously. As GM I would be doing as much homework as I could on him.


I have heard the exact opposite about Norv's offenses. I had always heard they were simple and he had in the past plugged and played street free agents into his offense mid season. Why do you think it is complicated?

I would love Patterson here but feel he would likely disappoint. The kid screams potential but never really puts it all together. His best asset in this offense would be catching quick short passes underneath and hopefully breaking long gains while teams focus on Beckham. For all his size and speed I don't view him as a big down field or red zone threat. He is a very good returner but a serviceable WR. His skill set should make him so much more than he is currently.
Patterson isn't a good WR  
JonC : 2/9/2017 9:09 am : link
is the problem.
My opinion...  
Milton : 2/9/2017 9:09 am : link
The Giants should look to sign their highest graded veteran WR who is willing to accept a one year prove-themselves deal. Similar to what they did with Keenan Robinson this past year and similar to the deals that Crabtree first signed with the Raiders and Nicks signed with the Colts. If Patterson fits that profile, then fine, but if he is looking for a multi-year deal with guaranteed money, forget it.

There will be talented receivers available in free agency who didn't get the big money offers they were hoping for and they could view the Giants as a good place to pad their resume before taking another crack at free agency in 2018. Without knowing how the market for receivers is going to play out in the opening days of free agency, it's impossible for me to pick a favorite target among what will amount to leftovers, but there are always some interesting choices who fit the profile I described. Some wind up like Crabtree, some like Nicks, it will be up to the braintrust to pick correctly.

Meanwhile, the Giants should draft a WR so that when the veteran free agent pickup departs in 2018 and the Giants re-sign OBJ to a record-breaking deal for a WR, the Giants will have two other youngsters in the pipeline, Shepard in year three, and this year's rookie in year two. That's how you keep both the salary cap healthy and the WR group strong.
He actually had less receiving yards than Cruz who was coming off  
Ira : 2/9/2017 9:11 am : link
two years of injuries. He's never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season.
RE: He actually had less receiving yards than Cruz who was coming off  
Big Blue '56 : 2/9/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13355205 Ira said:
Quote:
two years of injuries. He's never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season.


This past year was his best. Does that mean he's beginning to turn the corner? Perhaps, perhaps not..He is 4-5 years younger than Cruz..At his age and possible cheap cost, I'd take a chance. At worst, he's a very good STs player who can spread the field from time to time..We can always use that..Judge him on last year, pro or con..Other years are rather meaningless, imv
according to this site  
GiantsLaw : 2/9/2017 9:18 am : link
he only dropped one pass last year on 70 targets. I would wonder if he had a case of "contract year" motivization, but he really looked different last year.

Plus we have to consider what are we looking for? We're not looking for a #1, we got that. We have a slot/#2 guy in Shep. CP would be a great playmaking #3 (with huge upside) who adds value on special teams.
drop stats - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I like Patterson.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/9/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13355199 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
In comment 13355189 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Norv runs a complicated offense. He always seemed to handle the questions about him and his situation in a positive way. However, when Zimmer wanted a friend of his to mentor him he chose to do his own thing. There is something peculiar about him. I am not going to be upset if he isn't a target but anybody has to be intrigued with his upside. And, bare minimum he helps out on specials tremendously. As GM I would be doing as much homework as I could on him.



I have heard the exact opposite about Norv's offenses. I had always heard they were simple and he had in the past plugged and played street free agents into his offense mid season. Why do you think it is complicated?

I would love Patterson here but feel he would likely disappoint. The kid screams potential but never really puts it all together. His best asset in this offense would be catching quick short passes underneath and hopefully breaking long gains while teams focus on Beckham. For all his size and speed I don't view him as a big down field or red zone threat. He is a very good returner but a serviceable WR. His skill set should make him so much more than he is currently.


Check this out. It is just a different type of offense. It says there are no set formations. WRs can line up anywhere and they have different reads that will lead to different routes. It ks also very specific with where the route will end up. This is where Patterson had a lot of trouble. If the route was supposed to be 15 yards downfield then Patterson would only be 12 yards downfield. Patterson really struggled with the offense. It is slightly like Gilbride's offense. When it is on it is near impossible to stop. When it isn't it leads to a lot of negative throws. That is why Patterson really only seemed to be on the field as a decoy or running reverses. I don't mean a complicated offense overall but one that is very specific about where you are supposed to be on every play.
RE: according to this site  
Big Blue '56 : 2/9/2017 9:21 am : link
In comment 13355213 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
he only dropped one pass last year on 70 targets. I would wonder if he had a case of "contract year" motivization, but he really looked different last year.

Plus we have to consider what are we looking for? We're not looking for a #1, we got that. We have a slot/#2 guy in Shep. CP would be a great playmaking #3 (with huge upside) who adds value on special teams. drop stats - ( New Window )


Wasn't aware of the 1d rop..Thanks..Limited or not, that's pretty darn good. Again, maybe he's come of age, maybe he hasn't, but for a # 3, he could come at a desirable cost and he's young..
1 drop  
Big Blue '56 : 2/9/2017 9:21 am : link
.
Haha, sorry  
robbieballs2003 : 2/9/2017 9:24 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I'd have a hard time trusting his catching and route running  
Toth029 : 2/9/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13355183 Giantology said:
Quote:
But would be excited to have him as a return specialist.

Yep.

He's more dangerous than Harris as a return man, but Harris is a fantastic gunner and can lineup at wideout too and perform when asked.
Harris is not a legit  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2017 9:33 am : link
WR. He couldn't crack the WR rotation in Dallas when it was weak and he couldn't here either.

the Giants would rather trot out rookie Roger Lewis and journeyman Tavares King than give Harris more snaps at WR.

And when Harris was out there, of his 58 WR snaps in 2016, he had one target, he was out there for his blocking.

I'm not saying Patterson is any better as a WR, he's been a bust, but don't say Harris is an option at WR "if the Giants need him to be", because he's not.
If we're signing a Vikings WR  
Big Rick in FL : 2/9/2017 9:35 am : link
It better be Thielen. He's way better than Patterson. He's got good size. Good route runner and good hands. He had almost 1,000 yards last year at 14 YPC. He's 6'2 200.
Thielien  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2017 9:53 am : link
is an RFA. He's not going anywhere.
Here's the thing with Patterson:  
Brown Recluse : 2/9/2017 10:03 am : link
1. He was a raw prospect when he was drafted and apparently, he didn't really decide to put in any work until last offseason. By his own admission, he spent his first three seasons relying on his physical skills as a top athlete and draft pick rather than dedicating himself to becoming a true NFL wideout.

He did work last offseason and it showed during the 2017 season. Was this the beginning of a more mature mindset? Or was it motivated by the fact he knew he would become a free agent?

The Giants would really need to do their homework on this player and determine whether he has plateaued as a wideout or whether he is still growing and will put in the time to improve.

Patterson does carry some real value as a kick returner and I believe he can also contribute from the RB position (think Ty Montgomery). The problem is that they already have a kick returner on the team that is making pretty good money and I don't believe he can just be cut without eating his salary. For a team in need of help at multiple positions and looking to free up money where it can, that doesn't seem very prudent.

If they can cut Harris loose, I can see the value in signing Patterson - as he is simply a better complimentary player than Harris with the potential to develop into something more. I would not carry them both though.

Totally depends on value vs. compensation  
Bob in Newburgh : 2/9/2017 10:14 am : link
Naturally if you can get him on a make-good contract, essentially a 1 year at vet minimum, you do it in an instant and cut him in camp if need be.

Seems like he only runs WR screens  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/9/2017 10:19 am : link
He is obviously dangerous with the ball in his hands but otherwise he is underwhelming in terms of performance versus his high talent ceiling.

I would rather see FA money go to the lines with the draft used to find a talented, cost controlled WR.
unless you're cutting Harris  
area junc : 2/9/2017 10:25 am : link
it makes zero sense.

Harris made the Pro Bowl as a special teams player last year and is due ~$3M in salary. They are very similar players in overall utility although I'd agree Patterson is a much more explosive RS.
nice wrap up  
area junc : 2/9/2017 10:26 am : link
at 9:09 milton
RE: no thanks. He plays so much smaller than his size  
Danny Kanell : 2/9/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13355186 jlukes said:
Quote:
he is fast and a good kick returning, but really completely underwhelming as a WR.

The only plays he makes as a WR are when he gets the ball in his hands early - he never uses his size to catch balls downfield or in the redzone


+1
No  
SLIM_ : 2/9/2017 10:58 am : link
As a receiver, he isn't what we need. He's 6'2 - yes but I havent' seen him play physical and fight for the ball. I haven't seen him catch the ball downfield. That is what we are looking for, someone who can spread the field vertically so that Sheppard and the tight ends can run underneath while also making a safety budge freeing up room for Beckham.

Patterson catches the ball on basically long handoffs. The DB's would just crowd the line like they did with Cruz. We need a professional veteran receiver (think Marshall/Decker cut or someone like Garcon) or a cheaper player who may come cheaper and younger (Quick?).

Do you take a flyer on him(Paterson) as a number 4? Probably not. We spent some money on Harris who should be the 4/special teamer type.
RE: Patterson isn't a good WR  
jlukes : 2/9/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13355202 JonC said:
Quote:
is the problem.


Ding ding ding
I wouldn't be surprised to see him wind  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2017 12:23 pm : link
up in New England and to see Belichick find a way to "make him a good WR" which really means either getting him to fit into your culture and work ethic and accentuating his skills.
RE: no thanks  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/9/2017 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13355195 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Maybe if he was also a punt returner, but he's only returned 1 punt in 4 seasons and thanks to the new KO rules, KO returns are decreasing in importance. Only 25 returns last season which is ~25% below his previous career low.

And he's not a strong P/K coverage guy and useless as a WR. While he may not be quite as explosive with the ball in his hands, Harris also has the ability to take short passes and turn them into big gains. But Harris can also run other routes (see 2015). And in CP's 'breakout' this year, he averaged a whopping 8.7 yards/catch. That's basically Will Tye.

Harris is our best P/K coverage guy (by a decent margin) and people want to cut him? While CP may not cost a lot, I doubt he's any cheaper than Harris.

Not championing CP by any stretch, but 25 as a career low ~25% down from his previous low is basically one fewer return every other game. It's really a tyranny of small numbers.

That said, I don't think he's a good enough WR to justify any sort of significant contract or reliance. If not for his return skills, he'd be in Reuben Randle territory (and isn't even the WR that Randle was).

I wouldn't use CP as a way to defend DH though; Harris is a negative relative to the cap, IMO.
RE: RE: no thanks  
giants#1 : 2/9/2017 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13355708 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13355195 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Maybe if he was also a punt returner, but he's only returned 1 punt in 4 seasons and thanks to the new KO rules, KO returns are decreasing in importance. Only 25 returns last season which is ~25% below his previous career low.

And he's not a strong P/K coverage guy and useless as a WR. While he may not be quite as explosive with the ball in his hands, Harris also has the ability to take short passes and turn them into big gains. But Harris can also run other routes (see 2015). And in CP's 'breakout' this year, he averaged a whopping 8.7 yards/catch. That's basically Will Tye.

Harris is our best P/K coverage guy (by a decent margin) and people want to cut him? While CP may not cost a lot, I doubt he's any cheaper than Harris.


Not championing CP by any stretch, but 25 as a career low ~25% down from his previous low is basically one fewer return every other game. It's really a tyranny of small numbers.

That said, I don't think he's a good enough WR to justify any sort of significant contract or reliance. If not for his return skills, he'd be in Reuben Randle territory (and isn't even the WR that Randle was).

I wouldn't use CP as a way to defend DH though; Harris is a negative relative to the cap, IMO.


Sure, but it shows the decline in the number of KOs. He went from 43 returns (2.5 per game) his rookie year to 25 returns (1.5 per game) this past season. When you're talking about a player whose primary value to a team is his KR ability (again, he doesn't return punts), that's a huge difference.

Dwayne Harris gets $3.5M per year. That's pretty minor in the scheme of things and he's one of the best special teams players in the league. His PR coverage is as good as it gets (how many did he down inside the 5?) and that's pretty important with this offense...
RE: RE: He actually had less receiving yards than Cruz who was coming off  
giantsfan44ab : 2/9/2017 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13355210 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13355205 Ira said:


Quote:


two years of injuries. He's never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season.



This past year was his best. Does that mean he's beginning to turn the corner? Perhaps, perhaps not..He is 4-5 years younger than Cruz..At his age and possible cheap cost, I'd take a chance. At worst, he's a very good STs player who can spread the field from time to time..We can always use that..Judge him on last year, pro or con..Other years are rather meaningless, imv


He averaged less than 9 yards a catch last year...

Now someone mentioned Adam Thielen. That guy IS a WR. Good hands, great blocker. hes a RFA so I'm not sure if he's going to be going to another team. They don't exactly have a surplus of WRs in MIN.
1-You go by last year as it appears  
Big Blue '56 : 2/9/2017 5:27 pm : link
he finally got it. If that's not good enough for many, so be it..

2-I love Harris, but he seems to have developed an injury predisposition. Perhaps not indicative of squat, but CP is a solid returner

3-If you're going to draft a receiver or 2 then there's little need for a FA receiver. Smarter to allocate cap towards serious areas of need

4-We're talking about a 3rd receiver, not a 1 or 2..

5-If you are in fact looking to sign a FA WR who is young to boot and may finally have become relevant, who would be cheaper than this guy?

I hope they look into this guy as an alternative..
if Quinn is still our ST coach  
santacruzom : 2/9/2017 7:26 pm : link
I wouldn't pay any player based primarily upon their ST play.
Love the idea as a harris upgrade  
Mr. Nickels : 2/10/2017 12:18 am : link
and Patterson former 1st round wr talent..
I'd grab Thielen  
Mr. Nickels : 2/10/2017 12:19 am : link
too
RE: 1-You go by last year as it appears  
Milton : 2/10/2017 7:19 am : link
In comment 13355800 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
If you're going to draft a receiver or 2 then there's little need for a FA receiver. Smarter to allocate cap towards serious areas of need
Sure there's need, because you can't count on rookies and it there's a difference between what's expected of a rookie 1st round pick and what's expected of a rookie 7th round pick and everything in between. But you're right that they certainly shouldn't spend big bucks on a free agent WR. It should be a one year deal similar to what they gave Keenan Robinson or Walter Thurmond.

Quote:
We're talking about a 3rd receiver, not a 1 or 2. If you are in fact looking to sign a FA WR who is young to boot and may finally have become relevant, who would be cheaper than this guy
What kind of contract are you talking about for Patterson and what makes you think he'd be interested? In your original post it sounded like you were talking about signing him to a multi-year deal to be the team's #2 WR. Now it sounds more like you're talking about signing him to a one year minimum deal to be the team's #4 WR. I know you're saying #3, but Shepard is the team's #3 WR (the slot).

What the team needs to add is a legit #2 WR for the team's two WR set. Is Shepard that guy? Not ideally. He strikes me (so far) as strictly a slot receiver for three WR sets. So as I stated earlier, my plan would be to sign a guy with legit #2 WR talent, but not to a long term deal. Someone who sees playing opposite OBJ for a year as his opportunity to see a lot of one-on-one coverage and pad his stats for a return to free agency in 2018. Couple that with a mid-round draft pick at the position and I think you're looking at a well-rounded WR group for not a lot of cost (either in salary cap or draft picks).
A classic underachiever.  
Section331 : 2/10/2017 9:49 am : link
Terrific athlete, but hasn't made the leap to being very good, no less great. Granted, he hasn't had the best QB's to work with, but it would be risky to sign a guy and hope that the light goes on for him.
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