Ranaan-Cruz, DRC, Vereen back? Thomas, Jennings out?

close to the vet minimum and even then I don't see it. He isn't part of this offense anymore, we need to move on.

In comment 13355891 UConn4523 said:

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close to the vet minimum and even then I don't see it. He isn't part of this offense anymore, we need to move on.

Why? Cruz can provide depth and insurance in case a guy like Shepard gets hurt and trust me you can do worse than Cruz even lined up on the outside.

Add another wr and keep Cruz. He's fine here as long as he isn't the primary outside wr other than Beckham.

A much needed cut.

coming back at a reduced salary, but he really shouldn't be getting snaps at #2.

I guess Cruz and Vereen would make for good depth - which is something the Giants are sorely lacking... but I think they can do better.

Glad they are moving on from Jennings. A year too late in my opinion (which is an unfortunate Giant tendency)

I disagree. Cruz was pretty bad on the outside last year. He was never really good on the outside and he's lost a lot. 39 receptions and 1 TD from your 2nd WR is pathetic. Especially when Odell gets so much attention. Even on the deep passes that he caught he was never really open. Most of them were great throws by Eli. He also offers absolutely nothing on special teams.

If his cap savings was 3-4 million than yeah I could see us restructuring and bringing him back. If we cut him we could save 7.5 million on the cap this year and 8.5 million on the cap next year. Restructuring his deal most likely doesn't get us anywhere near that. You can get out and get a guy like Rishard Matthews for 5 million a year. Matthews had 945 yards and 9 TDs in a run heavy offense.

So you can either put that money directly back at WR or you have an extra 16 million in cap space for 2017/2018 to put towards JPP & Hankins contract.

In comment 13355903 Brown Recluse said:

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I guess Cruz and Vereen would make for good depth - which is something the Giants are sorely lacking... but I think they can do better. Glad they are moving on from Jennings. A year too late in my opinion (which is an unfortunate Giant tendency)

I agree with all of this.

Cutting Cruz, Jennings & JT Thomas would give us an extra 13 million in cap space this year. Which would give us 37,125,039 in cap space this year if the salary cap is set at 168,000,000. Which it will most likely be higher than that so we will have about 40 million in cap space. Pugh's cap hit is 8,821,000 if we can manage to extend him that should open up another 3-5 million this year. We have to go all in again this year. Maybe not as many big contracts as last year, but our team showed a ton of potential and we have to take advantage of that for Eli's last few years. Cruz, Jennings & Thomas dont contribute much to a team looking to make a Super Bowl run.

Averaged 867 yards and 5.5 TDs in the 2 years he played with Odell. He can't even get a job in the NFL. Just goes to show the impact that Odell has. We just need a decent player to play opposite of Odell. That's not Cruz as we saw this year and I love Victor Cruz. It breaks my heart that such a promising career was ruined by injuries. It's just time to move on. Let Roger Lewis, Tavarres King & a free agent WR/draft pick fight for snaps.

we would have been much better off with King starting.

In comment 13355915 Big Rick in FL said:

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Averaged 867 yards and 5.5 TDs in the 2 years he played with Odell. He can't even get a job in the NFL. Just goes to show the impact that Odell has. We just need a decent player to play opposite of Odell. That's not Cruz as we saw this year and I love Victor Cruz. It breaks my heart that such a promising career was ruined by injuries. It's just time to move on. Let Roger Lewis, Tavarres King & a free agent WR/draft pick fight for snaps.

Agreed. Time to move on, sadly. Cruz would be the fifth WR at best if he comes back. That player may not even be activated, and would be expected to play ST, which Cruz does not. Cruz would also be taking a roster spot and maybe some snaps away from another player with a higher upside. We also don't need Cruz to back up Shepard in the slot. Draft a "flex" TE instead.

I would bring back Vereen and DRC. I would not bring back Jennings. This team needs a speed back.

It's time

He's done.

Save the cap money for someone else.

Lewis or King fighting for snaps with a FA?....I want a clear cut upgrade start at WR, not Lewis or King....

In comment 13355894 djm said:

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In comment 13355891 UConn4523 said: Quote: close to the vet minimum and even then I don't see it. He isn't part of this offense anymore, we need to move on. Why? Cruz can provide depth and insurance in case a guy like Shepard gets hurt and trust me you can do worse than Cruz even lined up on the outside. Add another wr and keep Cruz. He's fine here as long as he isn't the primary outside wr other than Beckham.

I really see no reason to give him reps that we can give to a draft pick or a FA. His only value is in the slot and we have our guy there. We absolutely cannot go into next season with Cruz playing opposite Beckham. We tried, it didn't work out, and he'll be another year older.

He can probably catch on somewhere else that needs a vet slot WR and get much more playing time. I wish him nothing but the best but it's time for him to go.

Hire him as an ambassador to the team.

.

He's not even a 3rd receiver, and he doesn't play specials to justify a roster spot as a 5th or 6th Wide Receiver. He needs to retire, so he can model on Instagram all he wants.

is the only guy we need back.

We have to re-sign JPP. I don't want Cruz, Vereen, Thomas, Dwayne Harris, etc. getting in the way of that. Some of them are valuable players, sure, but they can't get in the way of signing our cornerstone players.

You can replace these guys with shrewd scouting and pro personnel moves.

In comment 13355929 Doomster said:

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Lewis or King fighting for snaps with a FA?....I want a clear cut upgrade start at WR, not Lewis or King....

Why? Tavarres King flashed in the little time he was given. Roger Lewis was an UDFA from Bowling Green. Couldn't expect much from him last year. I'm sure he will progress as he gets used to the speed of the NFL and everything that being a pro entails. I'd much rather an in house option steps up and becomes a solid WR across from Odell. Gives us more money to spend elsewhere.

In comment 13355899 Dave in Hoboken said:

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A much needed cut.

Idk about much needed. Injured this year but productive when in the lineup. He was a very good teammate and they all loved him. If you check out sights and sounds of the game each week they often shout out JT Thomas and his rallying cry

In comment 13355903 Brown Recluse said:

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I guess Cruz and Vereen would make for good depth - which is something the Giants are sorely lacking... but I think they can do better. Glad they are moving on from Jennings. A year too late in my opinion (which is an unfortunate Giant tendency)

Vereen is more than just depth IMO. At worst he's their 3rd down back and more likely he's that plus a change of pace/series here and there each game type of back.

because you have to fill the holes. Cruz makes sense on a non guaranteed prove it deal. He is serviceable as a 4th WR.. Cutting Vereen makes no sense. All you are doing is creating another holes that needs to be filled.

DRC was never getting cut.. thats a media fantasy..

Thomas is a goner.. so is Jennings..

In comment 13356003 blueblood said:

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because you have to fill the holes. Cruz makes sense on a non guaranteed prove it deal. He is serviceable as a 4th WR.. Cutting Vereen makes no sense. All you are doing is creating another holes that needs to be filled. DRC was never getting cut.. thats a media fantasy.. Thomas is a goner.. so is Jennings..

4th WR play special teams

Cruz does not....you only have so many roster spots

He's a heady veteran player that Eli trusts. I wouldn't mind giving him another shot at the right price.

I would also be stunned if he got an offer of any significance on the open market.

In comment 13355915 Big Rick in FL said:

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Averaged 867 yards and 5.5 TDs in the 2 years he played with Odell. He can't even get a job in the NFL. Just goes to show the impact that Odell has. We just need a decent player to play opposite of Odell. That's not Cruz as we saw this year and I love Victor Cruz. It breaks my heart that such a promising career was ruined by injuries. It's just time to move on. Let Roger Lewis, Tavarres King & a free agent WR/draft pick fight for snaps.

This.

If Cruz would come back at the vet min it would be palatable but counter productive. The Giants need more size and athleticism on the outside. It's time to move on.

could be spent on him even if he were a special teams contributor, which he's not.

But saying that he stinks and he's done is not called for.

He caught 10 passes for over 20 yards. He caught two sideline bombs of almost 50 yards. He averaged 15 yards a catch. Very respectable numbers.

Manning just threw the ball to him 33 times less than he threw it to Shepard.

I'll leave it to the coaches and the game film as to whether Cruz wasn't thrown to because he wasn't open. No "separation." What I thought I saw was Manning looking for Beckham on two thirds of pass plays and sometimes trying to force the ball to him when he was double covered.

And I thought that Eli wasn't getting the time to check down through all his receivers looking for one who was open, something at which he is very good.

But the opinion of the coaches is what counts.

I give priority to tight end over 2nd wideout receiver. If we get a tight end who can catch, don't spend a lot to replace Cruz. There aren't enough balls to go around to so many receivers.

That was Sheppard. McAdoo went w 3 wides most of the time. Does anyone here think he was always option 2 after OBJ?

What they need is an outside Z or X guy. Shepard is the slot but he was clearly the # 2 target.

They also need a FB and another TE.

DRC isn't going anywhere this year. Next he's gone. He can't play starter snaps but is too damn good to cut yet without a real 3rd guy behind Apple and Jenkins

As for Vereen they'd be dumb to keep him or Jennings for anything other than redone vet minimum $$

Thomas being back would be a miracle

He's been a good Giant and the Giants have been good to him and the fans love him. Give him a chance and if he isn't productive in training camp, time to move on.

from Cruz. Thanks for the memories VC.

bring back Cruz. He provides little to the Offense.

And he was even less impactful as the season wore on.

Is an impact player. No one replaced what he could do after he was injured

We need a bigger and faster outside wide receiver. Shepard makes Cruz redundant in the Giant offense.

He has made a boat-load of money (on/off the field). Thanks for the time.

Also have to realize he was coming back from 2 surgeries in back to back years. I'm all for at least having him at camp at a reduced price to see if he gains anything back after a full year off of major injury.

At least that's what I see happening.

In comment 13356086 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

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Also have to realize he was coming back from 2 surgeries in back to back years. I'm all for at least having him at camp at a reduced price to see if he gains anything back after a full year off of major injury.

as long as all options replacing him are not ignored ahead of time...

...and don't require a lot of reps in practice to be ready when called on, especially when you have young guys that need the reps in practice.

It's not unlike the Beatty situation. All the bitching and moaning about Beatty in 2016 ignores the fact that Flowers and Hart needed every rep they could handle, but Beatty could probably have stepped in at any point and done a workman-like job without having to move Pugh.

When camp starts there will be enough young WRs on the roster that need development and having VC if they get dinged up at the position would be a smart move at the right price. I'll leave it to the front office to figure out how to structure the contract, though the BBI-osphere seems to have it all figured out.

except that Roger has to be back.

Cruz was awful, but sometimes injuries like that take a full year to heal. He has to be evaluated before he's thrown away - even if the liklihood is that he's not going to get that extra "twitch" back.
Same with Thomas. He has to be evaluated based on his current status...not what's been. I think his road is tougher because even at his best I'm not sure that he's better than we have.
Also disagree about the cap.
37 to 40 mil.
5.5 reserve for draft picks
10.0 reserve for OBJ next year
15 plus JJP
8 minus Hankins.
That's 38 million needed to stay the same (the draft excepted). If you don't sign our own you have to get replacements, so, "no", there isn't money to play with like last year.

In comment 13356073 joeinpa said:

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Is an impact player. No one replaced what he could do after he was injured

That is due in part, to the absolute lack of talent the Giants displayed at the RB position outside of Perkins. Not because Vereen is awesome.

Cruz is ineffective as an outside receiver. Time to move.

the same WRs as last year. We'd expect Sheppard to develop and get better, Cruz is a reliable vet who should be cheap, and King looked really promising in camp and down the stretch with some big catches. IMO, the Giants should go all-in on upgrading the OL, TE, and replacing and upgrading Jennings.

He does not play special teams. At some point it is a wasted roster spot. WR depth should contribute to the team in other ways.

Overthecap has his dead money at $1.9 million if cut. If we restructure contract (use the vet minimum for this argument) how will that affect the dead money?

No: Jennings, Thomas

There probably are a few teams who would sign him to be a #3 slot guy.

Offer him a fair deal or let him go.

In comment 13355958 Big Blue '56 said:

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.

I agree. Maybe invite him to camp to see if Cruz had a miracle occur, else he has to retire. He was just about useless in 2016.

between griping about not getting enough targets then tagging along for the Bieber trip, I suspect management isn't as convinced as many fans are that his value as a veteran team leader is that great either.

Definitely bring back Vereen, and draft his replacement too - both teams in the Super Bowl showed the value of having a dependable receiving threat or two out of the backfield.

In comment 13356291 Ivan15 said:

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There probably are a few teams who would sign him to be a #3 slot guy. Offer him a fair deal or let him go.

#4 receivers play special teams.

Cruz does not

lack of love for Vereen. As it currently stands he's the third best player on our offense by a wide margin at the skill spots.

We need to add to him and Perkins not subtract.

Cruz may not be the player he was but he proved he still has the hands and made multiple clutch catches this year that if he didn't we wouldn't have won the games. Brian him back at a lower price obviously. He's good for backup 3rd or 4th and in situations where you need a catch.

Jennings, never liked him. He has always run like stand straight up and has no cutting ability or agility. The only time the guy got yards is when there was a gaping hole that anyone else would have done the same or most likely even better.

In comment 13356663 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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lack of love for Vereen. As it currently stands he's the third best player on our offense by a wide margin at the skill spots. We need to add to him and Perkins not subtract.

Agreed. Draft some Earth to go along with Wind and Fire. You know my preference: Oklahoma's Samaje Perine.

In comment 13356663 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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lack of love for Vereen. As it currently stands he's the third best player on our offense by a wide margin at the skill spots. We need to add to him and Perkins not subtract.

Again, him being the 3rd best player on our offense **by a wide margin** has more to do with our lack of talent than him being a great player.

I'd take Jacquizz Rodgers over him any day.