NFT: Knicks Chat: The Butler did it or wants to?

- Harden 30, 11 and 8

- Saric 24 and 8, 1 assist, 3 steals 8-15 over 28 minutes (kisses to Deej jk)

-Vucevic 21 and 11, 3 assists 2 blocks. Why exactly is this guy so underrated? Is it because he's a traditional big in a league moving away from that? 14 and 10 with a block and 3 assists for the season.

- Super Mario 1-4 3 points, 4 boards, 3 assists (starting to play more, though 2/3 were blow outs)

-Fournier 24, 8 and 9

- Derrick Williams 3-3 12 points in his Cavs debut aka The land of ex-Knicks

-Westbrook 29, 11 and 12, 4 steals

-Adams 20 and 13

-Gobert 15 15 and 2

Hayward (maybe the most over looked star in the league) , 36, 4 and 3. Last 5 games 29, 6 and 4 on 56/41

-Yogi 9 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 steals

-Seth Curry 16,5 and 4

-Vonleh 2 and 9, so far a total bust but he's a pretty good rebounder

That's a guy with thin skin who can't let anything go. He's 100 times worse that Woody Johnson because Woody's just inept he's not malicious. I do think the Dolan Knicks have set a standard for how not to run a sports organization.

im not really sure what PHI is doing with their front line. Illyasova has had a solid season, but he is what he is. Maybe they are going to try to trade him which would make some sense. But the minutes should be going to saric, Noel, and Okafor. Until embiid gets back, whenever that is.

Vucavic is def underrated. I mean last night you knew he was going to dominate because okafor is a joke on the boards and on D, ha. Hezonja stinks, i watched the first half of that game with nothing else on and he is barely noticeable. Only played a lot last night because Gordon was out.

why isnt he playing more? He isnt ready. His shooting is shitty (one game not withstanding). I think playing with a guy who shouldnt be out that is taxing on other players. E.g. why do the right thing and pass when it's to a guy who wont hit his shots (the Melo conundrum). Why sacrifice your body on D if you have teammates who will just give up the lane? Just a guess.

that we want?

In comment 13356088 Italianju said:

Quote:

im not really sure what PHI is doing with their front line. Illyasova has had a solid season, but he is what he is. Maybe they are going to try to trade him which would make some sense. But the minutes should be going to saric, Noel, and Okafor. Until embiid gets back, whenever that is. Vucavic is def underrated. I mean last night you knew he was going to dominate because okafor is a joke on the boards and on D, ha. Hezonja stinks, i watched the first half of that game with nothing else on and he is barely noticeable. Only played a lot last night because Gordon was out.

Just seemed weird Orlando was reportedly offering Vucevic and a 1st for Dragic? I get Orlando has a weird roster but that seems like a silly deal to me. Dragic is turning 31 soon. Sure starting to look like Hezonja is a turd. Imagine the morale of Knicks fans if he were here over KP lol

in solidarity with Oak until he can no longer sit in the crowd at MSG

In comment 13356094 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

that we want?

2017 first round pick?

Oh fuck me lord....

Say it was not oakley that was banned, say it was a player knicks fans hated, say charles smith, if he was banned and came and did what oakley did, would you be defendng smith the same way?

In comment 13356097 GentleGiant said:

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in solidarity with Oak until he can no longer sit in the crowd at MSG

Should but won't. After this long, it's not Dolan who's responsible for this mess, it's Knicks fans.

In comment 13356106 nygiants16 said:

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Say it was not oakley that was banned, say it was a player knicks fans hated, say charles smith, if he was banned and came and did what oakley did, would you be defendng smith the same way?

Treated the same way? Absolutely. Don't treat ex players like garbage. It's extreme with heart and soul Oakley but I'd feel the same way if this were Derek Harper, Eddie Lee Wilkins or Jerome James

In comment 13356106 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Say it was not oakley that was banned, say it was a player knicks fans hated, say charles smith, if he was banned and came and did what oakley did, would you be defendng smith the same way?

not defending dolan

In comment 13356108 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13356106 nygiants16 said: Quote: Say it was not oakley that was banned, say it was a player knicks fans hated, say charles smith, if he was banned and came and did what oakley did, would you be defendng smith the same way? Treated the same way? Absolutely. Don't treat ex players like garbage. It's extreme with heart and soul Oakley but I'd feel the same way if this were Derek Harper, Eddie Lee Wilkins or Jerome James

ok fair enough dan, i just wanted to see if the outrage was because of the way ex player was treated or because the ex player is Oakley

I bought tickets to see the Knicks-Sixers in Philly.

My son and I will be looking for Dolan.

In keeping with all the fun protests of late ...

"Hey hey! Ho ho! James Dolan has got to go!"

Don't think the other NBA player reaction would have been the same if it were a scrub... Oakley is something of a legend beyond his actual play (can't wait to see the torrent of Oakley jerseys at the garden next home game, wouldn't even put it past Dolan to force people to remove them lol) but it's clear Dolan has had a vendetta against Oakley. I mean look how they treat class act Patrick Ewing as if he's some scumbag

-Ball 15 and 11

-Tatum 19 5 and 9

Just get into the top 9. Isaac, Tatum and bridges are all intriguing 2 way wing prospects and then you got the PGs and monk. Gimme any of them.

In comment 13356132 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Don't think the other NBA player reaction would have been the same if it were a scrub... Oakley is something of a legend beyond his actual play (can't wait to see the torrent of Oakley jerseys at the garden next home game, wouldn't even put it past Dolan to force people to remove them lol) but it's clear Dolan has had a vendetta against Oakley. I mean look how they treat class act Patrick Ewing as if he's some scumbag

didnt they offer ewing a head coach job with their d league a couple of years ago and he turned it down?

It is surprising considering phil when he came back said he wanted to pay homage to the past knicks

In comment 13356168 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

-Ball 15 and 11 -Tatum 19 5 and 9 Just get into the top 9. Isaac, Tatum and bridges are all intriguing 2 way wing prospects and then you got the PGs and monk. Gimme any of them.

i really like bridges if you trade melo, would still need a point guard but i think fits well next to kp and willy

In comment 13356117 Beezer said:

Quote:

I bought tickets to see the Knicks-Sixers in Philly. My son and I will be looking for Dolan. In keeping with all the fun protests of late ... "Hey hey! Ho ho! James Dolan has got to go!"

Would love to hear "We want Oak!" chants at the remaining home games

In comment 13356179 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13356132 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Don't think the other NBA player reaction would have been the same if it were a scrub... Oakley is something of a legend beyond his actual play (can't wait to see the torrent of Oakley jerseys at the garden next home game, wouldn't even put it past Dolan to force people to remove them lol) but it's clear Dolan has had a vendetta against Oakley. I mean look how they treat class act Patrick Ewing as if he's some scumbag didnt they offer ewing a head coach job with their d league a couple of years ago and he turned it down? It is surprising considering phil when he came back said he wanted to pay homage to the past knicks

That's SOME olive branch... no interviews for the real Knicks job but hey want to coach the d league team? Could anyone name our last 3 dleague coaches?

he has ties to spurs organization..

the previous coach had ties to allan houston but was fired by phil jackson

have us finishing 8th worst in the NBA, at 33.6 wins. But super variable because of how bunched the west is.
Link - ( New Window )

coaches the last 3 seasons

Craig Hodges, Kevin Whitted, Mike Miller

Seems like a sweet gig Patrick passed up lol

savior
Link - ( New Window )

if he is talking about melo going to Chicago?

Melo isn't going anywhere, it's the sad truth, but the good news is that he doesn't help us win games so we will continue to lose and hopefully he rethinks it in the offseason.

In comment 13356278 Keith said:

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if he is talking about melo going to Chicago? Melo isn't going anywhere, it's the sad truth, but the good news is that he doesn't help us win games so we will continue to lose and hopefully he rethinks it in the offseason.

How would anybody know exactly what was discussed? You don't think players with friends on other teams discuss linking up while they are under contract? Isn't it assumed Lebron/Melo have discussed the 2 of them being teammates? I don't think the league would even investigate Butler even if he flat out said "I let Melo know I would love to have him on my team". I think only "decision makers" would get in trouble.

In comment 13356254 Deej said:

Quote:

have us finishing 8th worst in the NBA, at 33.6 wins. But super variable because of how bunched the west is. Link - ( New Window )

The Nets are obviously locked in at 1. Suns just aren't that good. Lakers want to finish in the bottom 3 to keep their pick. Dallas, New Orleans, Sac, and Minny all have a shot at the 8 seed and are trending upward. Orlando's GM is on the hot seat and badly wants to make the playoffs. That leaves Philly who should be getting Simmons back but most likely won't be pushing Embiid or Simmons hard.

Knicks are in excellent position to finish in the bottom 5. As sad as it to say, this is a very important point for the franchise. The Draft is always a crap-shoot, but getting in the top 5 greatly increases your chances of getting an impact player.Especially in this year's draft which is considered strong. Finishing 5th worst gives you a 29% chance of being in the top 3.

Jackson should have the foresight to see how valuable a top 5 pick is and with 28 games left, start the tank and trade off pieces for additional picks.

but it is really time and phil has to start selling off some of these vets for picks, even if it is 2018 picks..

if you make the right pocks you can really turn this into a young fun team rather quickly..

In comment 13356104 dep026 said:

Quote:

Oh fuck me lord....

Be careful what you wish for on BBI... :-)

Saying something like "The man's been an NBA assistant for 10 years and the greatest Knick ever, and all they offer him is the D-league job?"

In comment 13356294 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

Lakers want to finish in the bottom 3 to keep their pick.

This is a bit of a misnomer. There may be some in management who want to preserve the pick. Players I think dont care a bit about it -- they want to win and make good game tape. Walton didnt look like he was coaching to lose @MSG.

Quote:

Philly who should be getting Simmons back but most likely won't be pushing Embiid or Simmons hard.

I think they wont push either guy too hard due to injury concerns, but I believe the Sixers want to show well. It's time to have positive momentum and create some buzz, maybe flip a UFA to come who otherwise wouldnt have considered them. Not a max stud, but a quality 2 way guard or something.

since the start of the new year.

Players obviously don't Care about the pick but the Lakers have gone off "experimenting" with lineups since their "hot" start. They've gone away from playing Randle at the 5 (which was a big part of the surge in offense to start the season). I think management is all in on keeping the pick, landing Lonzo ball seems like the best possible outcome for this franchise going forward.

Letting Brandon Ingram run point for stretches in a game doesn't seem like the best way to win games.

They're trying to dump their two best players. Don't see the Knicks falling past them. 8 seems pretty reasonable for the pick we end up with.

1
Vander
Blue
Guard, D-Fenders
Two-time NBA D-League All-Star who led D-Fenders to NBA D-League Finals last season; former Marquette standout who has earned Call-Ups to Celtics and Lakers; scorer and ball-hawking defender who stays in attack mode

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2
Abdel
Nader
Forward, Red Claws
Celtics' 2016 2nd-round draft pick whose rights are exclusively owned by Boston; long, versatile wing who impressed at Portsmouth Invitational

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3
Anthony
Brown
Guard, BayHawks
No. 1 pick in 2016 NBA D-League Draft; Lakers' 2nd-round pick last season; has been called up to Pelicans and Magic so far this season

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4
Keith
Benson
Center, Skyforce
All-Star center for 2016 NBADL champions; 2011 Atlanta Hawks second-round pick; earned 2012 Call-Up to Golden State Warriors; has played in five different countries as well as in four NBA D-League seasons

HighlightsBio & Stats

5
Eric
Moreland
Forward, Charge
Spent past two seasons with Sacramento Kings, averaging 12.0 points and 13.3 rebounds on assignment with Reno Bighorns; Oregon State's all-time leader in blocks

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6
Quinn
Cook
Guard, Charge
2016 NBA D-League All-Star and Rookie of the Year; member of 2015 Duke national championship team; strong shooter who can play both on and off the ball

HighlightsBio & Stats

7
Hollis
Thompson
Forward, Spurs
Spent past four seasons with Sixers, appearing in 256 games and shooting 39% from three; floor-spacer on the wing with good length defensively

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8
Jalen
Jones
Forward, Red Claws
Has burst out of the gates with Red Claws; combo forward with inside-outside skills and ability to defend multiple positions

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9
Dakari
Johnson
Center, Blue
Thunder's No. 48 pick in 2015 NBA Draft; made NBADL's All-Rookie Team after posting 12.3 points, 8.1 rebounds and 1.6 blocks; two-year player at Kentucky who reached back-to-back Final Fours

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10
Manny
Harris
Guard, Legends
Former University of Michigan star; called up to Lakers during 2013-14 season; owns 25.0 PPG career NBA D-League scoring average entering 2016-17 season

HighlightsBio & Stats

11
Elijah
Millsap
Guard, Suns
Four-year NBA D-League vet and former All-Star; spent past two seasons with Jazz after January 2015 Call-Up; elite defender with point guard skills on the wing; brother of Hawks forward Paul Millsap

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12
Ben
Bentil
Forward, Mad Ants
2016 AP Honorable Mention All-American who averaged 21.1 points per game; selected No. 51 overall by Celtics before being waived; played first half of season in China

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13
Jordan
Crawford
Guard, Drive
NBA vet who can fill it up as a scorer -- career 12.2 PPG in 24.7 minutes. Uses quickness and deep range to get shots off, and has shown ability to play both guard spots (career 3.2 APG).

HighlightsBio & Stats

14
Ryan
Kelly
Forward, Red Claws
Four-year NBA vet and former 2nd-round pick, called up to Hawks before season; stretch-4 with high basketball IQ

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15
Kevin
Murphy
Guard, Drive
Pure scoring 2-guard with career NBADL average of 20+ PPG; former Jazz second-round draft pick

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16
Axel
Toupane
Guard, 905
2015 NBA D-League Most Improved Player, averaging 14.6 points and 5.6 rebounds; earned Call-Up to Nuggets

HighlightsBio & Stats

17
Phil
Pressey
Guard, Warriors
Quick, pure point guard who has spent time with Celtics, Sixers and Suns; has earned Call-Ups in each of past two seasons

HighlightsBio & Stats

18
John
Holland
Guard, Charge
3-and-D wing who spent four seasons overseas before joining Charge last season and earning Call-Up to Celtics; America East Player of the Year as senior at Boston University

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19
Josh
Magette
Guard, D-Fenders
One of NBA D-League's top floor generals over past three seasons; left college as conference's all-time leader in assists

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20
Will
Bynum
Guard, Bulls
8-year NBA vet with more than 300 career games played; proven playmaker and defender who has maintained explosiveness

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21
Cory
Jefferson
Forward, Spurs
2014 second-round NBA Draft pick who has played for Nets and Suns; athletic, rebounding, versatile big who can play the 4 and 5

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22
Shawn
Long
Center, 87ers
2016 Sun Belt Player of the Year; double-double machine with long arms to protect the rim, has shown ability to step out and knock down mid-range jumper

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23
Ben
Gordon
Guard, Legends
11-year NBA veteran on the comeback trail; owns career averages of 14.9 PPG and 40% 3FG in 744 career NBA games; can serve as floor spacer/instant offense off the bench

HighlightsBio & Stats

24
Kalin
Lucas
Guard, BayHawks
Experienced guard who earned brief Call-Up to Grizzlies in 2014; former Michigan State star; heady, reliable player who's a proven winner.

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25
Russ
Smith
Guard, 87ers
Former All-American at Louisville and second-round NBA Draft pick; quick play-maker with the ball in his hands, can wreak havoc as on-ball defender; ranked 2nd in scoring in 2015-16, including record 65-point game

Ouch

Former All-American at Louisville and second-round NBA Draft pick; quick play-maker with the ball in his hands, can wreak havoc as on-ball defender; ranked 2nd in scoring in 2015-16, including record 65-point game


Jesus.. he's averaging 28 points, 8 assists, 2 steals 5 rebounds on 46/30... I guess his 3 point shooting but still wow

I'm guessing those are the biggest reasons.

In comment 13356383 Greg from LI said:

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Ouch

Yeah you'd think a foreign league would pay better and would be a bit better for the ego.

In comment 13356400 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Former All-American at Louisville and second-round NBA Draft pick; quick play-maker with the ball in his hands, can wreak havoc as on-ball defender; ranked 2nd in scoring in 2015-16, including record 65-point game Jesus.. he's averaging 28 points, 8 assists, 2 steals 5 rebounds on 46/30... I guess his 3 point shooting but still wow

Might have to do with him shooting 32% when he was in the NBA.

A lot of these short senior PGs I think you gotta worry about if they're able to run an offense at the NBA level. I think that's the main reason why Yogi went undrafted. He's much more athletic than your typical senior PG. He probably has above average NBA quickness.

But if you're undersized, not a superior athlete and can't shoot 3s there's not much of a role cut out for you in the NBA.

TJ McConnell is an interesting case study in this regard.

Ryan Kelley and Jordan Crawford are all In the top 15 of what TE d league has to offer I'm not sure how much value there is there.

In comment 13356422 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

Ryan Kelley and Jordan Crawford are all In the top 15 of what TE d league has to offer I'm not sure how much value there is there.

whats easier to do, average 25 in d league or 30 in china league?

The frontrunner for the MVP this year is shooting 41% from the floor. And doesnt play any defense.

Think about that for a second.

Head of security at MSG just got canned.
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Good athlete, strong, excellent free throw shooter. His 3 point numbers are bad, but he keeps shooting them for some reason.

He's only a consideration for me in the 9-12 range.

In comment 13356453 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

Good athlete, strong, excellent free throw shooter. His 3 point numbers are bad, but he keeps shooting them for some reason. He's only a consideration for me in the 9-12 range.

His stroke isnt bad from downtown. I like him more than Josh jackson. Bigger, stronger. Can put more muscle on too.

I have Tatum as the first non PG/Monk.

reminds me a little of Shawn Marion.

I LOVE Jackson. Yes, I know his shooting numbers are an abomination, but he's great at every other aspect of the game. His defense, athleticism, ball-handling, rebounding, and passing are all terrific.

Marion is a pretty good comparison.

In comment 13356411 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13356383 Greg from LI said: Quote: Ouch Yeah you'd think a foreign league would pay better and would be a bit better for the ego.

For the 16-17 D-League season, there will only be two tiers for salaries as the �C� has been eliminated. The new salary levels will be $19,500 (B-Level) and $26,000 (A-Level) and the salary cap will rise to $209,000.

In comment 13356457 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13356453 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: Good athlete, strong, excellent free throw shooter. His 3 point numbers are bad, but he keeps shooting them for some reason. He's only a consideration for me in the 9-12 range. His stroke isnt bad from downtown. I like him more than Josh jackson. Bigger, stronger. Can put more muscle on too. I have Tatum as the first non PG/Monk.

I think I'm higher than Jackson than you but I would take Tatum, Isaac and bridges all before him.

I'm really confused as to why bridges lags behind the other top wings in the draft.

He seems attributed with being the most athletic/explosive of the bunch, he's tagged with being a tweener despite being able to guard multiple positions and handle the ball, and his biggest knock is his outside shot even though he's shooting 40% from 3 on nearly 2 makes a game.

All that despite being on a much worse team than anyone else going top 10. He's THE man in Lansing and the focal point of that offense.

I think all 3 will be ~20 ppg scorers while being good defenders and great rebounders for the 3 spot (especially Isaac, followed by bridges).

Jackson. Will certainly have to add weight if he's not going to be a knockdown 3 point shooter but he's a great glue guy at the next level.

Draft net gives Tatum a Danny granger comparison and that's a pretty good one IMO. Signs point to him being a good outside shooter despite the low numbers.

I don't really know a good one for bridges, I guess sort of a PF version of Nic Batum? Certainly not the ball handler of Batum but he's kind of that guy that can give you production in every facet.

Isaac-no idea. Unique player, he might be able to play the 3-5 spots in varying capacities in the NBA.

6'10", tremendous athlete, willing to play physical despite being slender, can do many things well. Only thing that could be called a weakness right now is his jump shot, but it's not terrible and you can learn to shoot. You can't learn to be 6'10" with great quickness.

because whats his role in the NBA? I dont see him running off screens. Being a ball dominant forward? I dont see much of a post up game. He is thin (in a brandon Ingram type of way). I am not saying he is going to be bad whatsoever.

But I see Tatum as more of a well rounded scorer. I can see him posting guys up. I can see him shoot the ball better. And I can see him being more physical.

bridges i see some draymond in him but he has to commit to being a defensive stud, that turned green into a superstar..

In comment 13356512 dep026 said:

Quote:

because whats his role in the NBA? I dont see him running off screens. Being a ball dominant forward? I dont see much of a post up game. He is thin (in a brandon Ingram type of way). I am not saying he is going to be bad whatsoever. But I see Tatum as more of a well rounded scorer. I can see him posting guys up. I can see him shoot the ball better. And I can see him being more physical.

Seems like fair concerns. Despite being skinny he still has like 20 pounds on Ingram and is shorter. I think Ingram is the absolute extreme of being a skinny NBA player. I think he's a 2 guard even despite not having a good outside shot omas of yet. I think he should be in the middle of the lottery rather than top 5.

Markonnen is a guy i have more questions about. Low bust potential but people expecting KP 2.0 might be disappointed in getting a taller Ryan Anderson. Not absolutely a bad thing. I think he's ideally someone you put at the 4 next to AD. NO should 100% be on this guy with their pick.

Quote:

4. The Knicks The New York Knicks are a complete embarrassment, and I kind of think we should all just stop talking about them.

And I can't say I blame him.

I can't believe we're here again.

I don't know how they could be more embarrassing, but I'll never say never again.

In comment 13356535 EricNY33 said:

Quote:

Quote: 4. The Knicks The New York Knicks are a complete embarrassment, and I kind of think we should all just stop talking about them. And I can't say I blame him. I can't believe we're here again.

hey at least they are not givong their draft pick away this year...

but in the first few years of his career he can be a ball handler who can dribble/drive, kick out, and finish at the rim. He can also be a guy who scores a bunch of baskets in transition (like Marion & Greek Freak).

He probably has the least developed offensive game of the top 10 (or so) prospects, but the rest of his game is so impressive. The Knicks could use a guy who takes pride in his defense.

In comment 13356577 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

but in the first few years of his career he can be a ball handler who can dribble/drive, kick out, and finish at the rim. He can also be a guy who scores a bunch of baskets in transition (like Marion & Greek Freak). He probably has the least developed offensive game of the top 10 (or so) prospects, but the rest of his game is so impressive. The Knicks could use a guy who takes pride in his defense.

Ill have to watch his defense more, it never struck me as great. He has length and athleticism obviously. My question will be is can he guard more physical guys?

In comment 13356541 Greg from LI said:

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I don't know how they could be more embarrassing, but I'll never say never again.

This. You can never say too low with this franchise. My only prayer is that the Clippers and Cavs were total embarrassments until lightning came and they suddenly are good so who knows we are due for something good to happen at some point. Until then this my vote for the new logos on our unis:

human being. Lives life playing with Daddy's money. Lacking any obvious talent.

..

In comment 13356689 nygiants16 said:

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..

Really? What the hell man? Just let it go!

Just shows he was immediately the aggressor which is no surprise

In comment 13356689 nygiants16 said:

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..

I'm sure they'll ask the hard hitting questions and none of it will be pre-screened and sterilized.

In comment 13356590 dep026 said:

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Ill have to watch his defense more, it never struck me as great. He has length and athleticism obviously. My question will be is can he guard more physical guys?

I've never seen him play, but I recalled the linked ringer article talking about how his steal/block #s dwarf recent big wings. Article far from all rah rah, even about his defensive potential.
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In comment 13356739 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13356590 dep026 said: Quote: Ill have to watch his defense more, it never struck me as great. He has length and athleticism obviously. My question will be is can he guard more physical guys? I've never seen him play, but I recalled the linked ringer article talking about how his steal/block #s dwarf recent big wings. Article far from all rah rah, even about his defensive potential. Link - ( New Window )

His biggest knock is sometimes he's overaggressive on defense which creates fouls, but he's just an aggressive player on both ends of the floor.

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Things Knicks fans could enjoy this century: 1)Half season of fun Stat/Gallinari/Fields team; Dolan traded most of roster for Melo.
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Alan Sepinwall ‏@sepinwall 2m2 minutes ago
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2)Two weeks of Linsanity; Dolan refused to match offer sheet out of spite. 3)Improbable 54-win 13-14 season; team immediately abandoned+
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smallball style that made it work. 4)Early play of Porzingis; team went with bad win-now strategy involving Rose and Noah that has stunted+
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his development and demoralized him. And then KP had to watch Oakley be led out of MSG in cuffs, banned for life. Knick fandom is fun!
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he is averaging more points, better shooting percentage and better rebounding than last year, how has his growth been stunted..

and please stop with linsanity, jeremy lin has prived what kind of player he is...

oh and the stat gallo chandler knicks were goimg nowhere

Jane The Virgin.

In comment 13356969 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

Jane The Virgin.

He's actually written extensively about the Knicks in the past. He was especially upset when lin was let go. He's more a fan than anything else but he's a long term knick fan... PS Jane the Virgin is a solid show..

By their opinions on Jeremy Lin.

you can't bring up Jeremy Lin as an example of a James Dolan fuck-up. In that case, stick to TV.

In comment 13356975 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

you can't bring up Jeremy Lin as an example of a James Dolan fuck-up. In that case, stick to TV.

Posted it by accident on the other thread but just some "back up" to the fact Alan is legit a super fan (it's a fun read even if you don't care about Alan Sepinwell at all)
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In comment 13356973 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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By their opinions on Jeremy Lin.

TTH- I have no horse in this race but he's a legit super fan regardless of being "wrong" on Lin. I don't know him personally, not defending his honor just remember when he used to post on AOL Knicks boards (where I started my bromance with JoeMP and EricNY33 in fact).

Kidd and Sheed retired, leaving a massive leadership (and underrated performance) hole. JR Smith got paid and promptly turned back into JR Smith. Tyson Chandler completely quit on the team.

if knicks hit on their pick this year, they could have a fun young tram full of homegrown talent next year that would be fun to watch and grow with...

In comment 13356986 nygiants16 said:

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if knicks hit on their pick this year, they could have a fun young tram full of homegrown talent next year that would be fun to watch and grow with...

I don't think I've watched a full Knicks game since Christmas. Now I just check the score or flip over to the game for a second to make sure they're losing.

In comment 13356981 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13356973 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: By their opinions on Jeremy Lin. TTH- I have no horse in this race but he's a legit super fan regardless of being "wrong" on Lin. I don't know him personally, not defending his honor just remember when he used to post on AOL Knicks boards (where I started my bromance with JoeMP and EricNY33 in fact).

I don't mean it in a bad way. I don't have anything against casual fans. Just funny to see them rant over something so obviously minor.

In comment 13356990 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 13356986 nygiants16 said: Quote: if knicks hit on their pick this year, they could have a fun young tram full of homegrown talent next year that would be fun to watch and grow with... I don't think I've watched a full Knicks game since Christmas. Now I just check the score or flip over to the game for a second to make sure they're losing.

i still watch every game start to finish, i am sick in the head that way

How are they gonna lose this time? Blown out by the shitty Lakers? Four overtimes against the Hawks? Buzzer-beater by the Sixers? Blown 10-point lead to the Clips after Oakley gets dragged out in cuffs? I'd be lying if I said I watch every minute, but there's entertainment value still. And if you're rooting for losses, like I am now - they rarely disappoint you.

In comment 13356996 bceagle05 said:

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How are they gonna lose this time? Blown out by the shitty Lakers? Four overtimes against the Hawks? Buzzer-beater by the Sixers? Blown 10-point lead to the Clips after Oakley gets dragged out in cuffs? I'd be lying if I said I watch every minute, but there's entertainment value still. And if you're rooting for losses, like I am now - they rarely disappoint you.

see i cant root for losses but when they lose i can see the bright side in the loss

It's not going to necessarily prevent them from being good -- Sterling was worse and the Clips got good. But I have to think it makes things that much more difficult. The fish stinks rots from the head.

but now that its actually happening a small part of my soul dies after each loss. Especially when I watch the games.

Have trouble watching a full NBA game at this part of the season aside from the big matchups, but always try catching KP/Willy highlights.

Ironically the most amount of NBA games I watch are during class.

but I just kinda laugh off their ineptitude at this point. I root for KP and Willy, so I loved the Nets game.

In comment 13357017 bceagle05 said:

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but I just kinda laugh off their ineptitude at this point. I root for KP and Willy, so I loved the Nets game.

Yeah exactly. Just rooting for those 2. And for other guys to step up for trade value. But those are the only two guys I actually view as Knicks long term.

KP-Melo-Lee-Rose-Jennings. Small ball.

Gallo, Faried, or Mudiay

In comment 13357069 Deej said:

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KP-Melo-Lee-Rose-Jennings. Small ball.

interesting, this spreads the floor alot..

jennings can be the distributor, rose can just worry aboit scoring

In comment 13357035 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13357017 bceagle05 said: Quote: but I just kinda laugh off their ineptitude at this point. I root for KP and Willy, so I loved the Nets game. Yeah exactly. Just rooting for those 2. And for other guys to step up for trade value. But those are the only two guys I actually view as Knicks long term.

Also forces KP on their best player, Jokic, though he doesnt go to the line much (until now...)

every jumper going

Knicks switch for no reason at all. it's really embarassing.

generally, looks like Jokic doesnt like covering the 3 point line, and on offense seems a bit frustrated with KP's length.

Still can't help but think rose would thrive off the ball with a big that can hit backdoor cutters like him.

in my draft kings he doesnt play?

Melo should have just signed that summer.

In comment 13357112 Mason said:

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Melo should have just signed that summer.

Dudes a baller. Was my favorite knick.

In comment 13357114 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13357112 Mason said: Quote: Melo should have just signed that summer. Dudes a baller. Was my favorite knick.

Imagine keeping Ill Will, Gallo, etc. and then adding Melo and keeping our picks. Fuck you Dolan. The asshole took credit for the trade again today. Letting Donnie squarely off the hook.

In comment 13357115 Mason said:

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In comment 13357114 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13357112 Mason said: Quote: Melo should have just signed that summer. Dudes a baller. Was my favorite knick. Imagine keeping Ill Will, Gallo, etc. and then adding Melo and keeping our picks. Fuck you Dolan. The asshole took credit for the trade again today. Letting Donnie squarely off the hook.

you couldnt add melo and keep chandler and gallo, 1 at minimum had to go..

In comment 13357116 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13357115 Mason said: Quote: In comment 13357114 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13357112 Mason said: Quote: Melo should have just signed that summer. Dudes a baller. Was my favorite knick. Imagine keeping Ill Will, Gallo, etc. and then adding Melo and keeping our picks. Fuck you Dolan. The asshole took credit for the trade again today. Letting Donnie squarely off the hook. you couldnt add melo and keep chandler and gallo, 1 at minimum had to go..

nope. They had room. Knicks assumed that Chandler wanted a huge contract. Nuggets convinced him to take a long reasonable contract. He already stated he would have taken less to stay in NYC. Walsh admitted that he was surprised and believed Chandler would have commanded more. Gallo was the only one that took the huge contract. The other contracts were coming off the books in 2011. That's why Donnie was telling Dolan to wait and see.

The only reason why Melo pushed for the trade was he feared the new CBA after the NBA possible lockout which happened. He wanted an extension on his existing contract for the extra year.

some of the guys that got traded for him because it set the Knicks back. LOL.

denver resigned wilson because of bird rightz...knicks would of had to relinquish those rights so they got cap space..

they could night just sign melo outright, it is a common misconception that they could just sign melo outright

had holiday wide open in corner, instead tries to hit a cutter with 4 guys in his face

Or is watching Jennings ineptness something Hornbeck enjoys?

getting embarrased and laughed at again on your home court..

just keep taking guys out hornacek after they make 1 mistake, makes sense, no wonder no one can get into a rhythm

In comment 13357123 nygiants16 said:

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denver resigned wilson because of bird rightz...knicks would of had to relinquish those rights so they got cap space.. they could night just sign melo outright, it is a common misconception that they could just sign melo outright

Didn't Chandler sign after the lockout? Remember the lockout went into effect right after the draft.

In comment 13357133 dep026 said:

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Or is watching Jennings ineptness something Hornbeck enjoys?

knicks came out flat in the 3rd so now hornacek is just doing hockey shifts every minute

my goodness this would even be more ugly.

In comment 13357135 Mason said:

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In comment 13357123 nygiants16 said: Quote: denver resigned wilson because of bird rightz...knicks would of had to relinquish those rights so they got cap space.. they could night just sign melo outright, it is a common misconception that they could just sign melo outright Didn't Chandler sign after the lockout? Remember the lockout went into effect right after the draft.

yeah he went to china, so how would the knicks sign him after they wouldve signed melo?

Always has been. If the knicks get a first for him, the trading team needs their heads examined.

.

If you pass the ball 3 times against the Knicks its an open look. If the knicks miss a long jumper, and they just loooooove the three ball, it's a fast break winning opportunity for the Knicks opponent. They don't play good on the ball defense and their help D isnt very helpful although KP and oquinn seem willing. Just abominable. I don't understand. How can they run this system and style of play every day... it's embarrassing.

and realized that kp can not guard jokic...

can for once the knicks hire a real coach?

he really is a terrible terrible defender

You have to really try to be as bad as they are. So frustrating.

they just do not know how to play defense..

they are fucking stupid, i am sorry they are just stupid and that is kp included..

part of it is hornacek and rambis

phil really needs to start trading players before this team gets lucky and wins a game

In comment 13357149 nygiants16 said:

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he really is a terrible terrible defender

They are all bad. This team is just rotten. Surround KP with players that give a shit on defense and I guarantee he improves. Instead he's surrounded by players that don't even try to play defense. It's no surprise that he's playing poor defense. That's Knicks basketball baby!

rid Melo, and Rose and go full tank mode. Get as many 1st as we can get and lets get a young team in here with money to spend.

In comment 13357158 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 13357149 nygiants16 said: Quote: he really is a terrible terrible defender They are all bad. This team is just rotten. Surround KP with players that give a shit on defense and I guarantee he improves. Instead he's surrounded by players that don't even try to play defense. It's no surprise that he's playing poor defense. That's Knicks basketball baby!

he just makes stupid mistakes, it is simple stuff to, like constantly going for the block on the inside when his man is on the 3 point line...

get it done Phil.

In comment 13357160 Giantfootball025 said:

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rid Melo, and Rose and go full tank mode. Get as many 1st as we can get and lets get a young team in here with money to spend.

i dont care about the money to spend, just get.me a young team that gives a shit..

they brought in vets who everyone thought wanted to win but that didnt work, time to tank and go young

with games against the Spurs, Thunder and Cavs coming up. We're rolling towards the top five of the draft like a ton of bricks.

In comment 13357163 Mason said:

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get it done Phil.

hahahahahahahah

In comment 13357167 bceagle05 said:

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with games against the Spurs, Thunder and Cavs coming up. We're rolling towards the top five of the draft like a ton of bricks.

man if they can get fultz ball or smith jr and you got something with kp and willy...

i wish they could get 1 more 1st in this years draft

In comment 13357168 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13357163 Mason said: Quote: get it done Phil. hahahahahahahah

Can't help to try. Hey, some team was dumb enough to trade a 1st round pick for Bargnani.

He's slowly losing his mind.

In comment 13357175 bceagle05 said:

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He's slowly losing his mind.

Regardless of what the starters did.... starting KP on jokic was awful. Playing Jennings 40 minutes - didnt work.

The fact rambis still has a job shows inept management.

In comment 13357175 bceagle05 said:

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He's slowly losing his mind.

I only saw the last 4+ minutes of the game, in which Jokic only scored 4 points. But the rest of the Nuggets were going crazy and it's not like it was because Jokic was getting double-teamed.

I also happened to see some of the press conference from Horny and I feel like I'm sick of his shit already. After an abomination of a defensive performance, I don't want to see him act like he has nothing to do with what's going on out there on the floor or has no control over it. If the starters effort isn't what you want, DON'T START THEM, regardless of how much money they make or where they were drafted.

Frankly, he looked like he was ready to take the Larry Brown Express out of town.

our descend to a better pick continues.

But he has to play better defense. The way he plays is part of the problem not the solution.

In comment 13357217 Giantfootball025 said:

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our descend to a better pick continues.

suns also won, looking at knicks schedule, they could lose 6 in a row and be top 5 soon

oh my god this would be unbearable

It's still unbearable. I can't believe I'm just getting into tank mode. There is no help here. It's killing me. And it starts with KP. Yes I see the shot, points, rebounds and good person but he sucks at D and that we kill me for years. I can't deal with another sieve.

In comment 13357253 Carl in CT said:

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It's still unbearable. I can't believe I'm just getting into tank mode. There is no help here. It's killing me. And it starts with KP. Yes I see the shot, points, rebounds and good person but he sucks at D and that we kill me for years. I can't deal with another sieve.

it was hard for me at first, but if you believe willy can be a good 3rd or 4th piece, even if you think kp is a 2nd piece with this years draft there are plenty of number 1 pieces..

if you are in the 5-10 range i think all those guys are 2nd pieces...

1-4 i think they are number 1 pieces, ball fultz smith and i think josh jackson can squeeze into that, he will be that high risk high reward guy

enough with the bed soiling. he does some things well (rim protection for one), some things poorly on D. Few young guys are good on D, and KP isnt physically developed.

Get a defensive coach in here and some good defensive teammates before you judge KP.

In comment 13357248 Carl in CT said:

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But he has to play better defense. The way he plays is part of the problem not the solution.

We? Who's that, the fans? What exactly do the fans have to do with KPs defense? Should we start booing him out of the building? What would you like us to do? Throw beer bottles at him? Will that make him play better defense? Jeezus, yeah let's make his life miserable because he probably has no clue that his defense needs a lot of work. Wtf is wrong with you people?

Besides that, it's been pretty universal that he needs to improve his defense, among other things. So again, what do you want the fans to do? This isn't the first time you've posted something like this, so please let us know what you want so you can stop regurgitating the same thing over and over again. Want us to show up at his house and let him have it?

In comment 13357262 Deej said:

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enough with the bed soiling. he does some things well (rim protection for one), some things poorly on D. Few young guys are good on D, and KP isnt physically developed. Get a defensive coach in here and some good defensive teammates before you judge KP.

Thank you. The way some of you kill a 21 year old, 2nd Year player budding star is way over the top. Jesus, get over it already. Yes, he's been poor on defense but there are things he does well. I'm fairly confident that he will be able improve his defense. Even with KPs defensive woes, it's easy to not kill him because he's young, a team player, and has expressed the desire to improve. Which is a far cry from some of the other morons on this Knicks team. Phil really needs to surround KP with the right type of players. Melo and Rose aren't those players.

about KP leaving the first chance he gets because of all the misery and dysfunction in the franchise. We need to surround him with good young players and solid vets like Noah and Lee, even if they are overpaid. First steps should be trading or cutting Rose, and telling Melo he's coming off the bench for the rest of the season if he doesn't except a trade.

so up through the trade deadline, Knicks play vs SA, at OKC, at Cleveland. If you consider those 3 as losses, you're looking at a 22-36 record.

Mavs play: vs Orlando, vs Boston, @DET, @MIN. One win and they jump the Knicks.

SAC plays: vs NO, @LA, @GS, vs DEN. 1 win and they stay ahead of NY.

NO plays: @SAC, @PHO, @MEM, vs Houston. 2 wins jump the knicks. 1 to tie.

MIN: vs CHI, @CLE, @DEN, vs DAL. 2 wins jump NY.

So it's conceivable they can be at the trade deadline looking at the 7th pick of the draft, with a chance of the 6th. So if that's not enough to get phil in sell mode I don't know what is.

Anyone want to take bets on what the next win is? Philly at home is the next bet, but Embiid will probably be back by then. Then they get Toronto at home, then @PHI, @ORL, vs GS, @ORL, all after the trade deadline. If they drop games against philly and Orlando on the road they could very easily be looking at a top 4 pick within the next 3 weeks.

In comment 13357281 bceagle05 said:

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about KP leaving the first chance he gets because of all the misery and dysfunction in the franchise.

max level guys almost never leave the team that drafted them before signing a second contract.

And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings.

Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years.

In comment 13357320 Enzo said:

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In comment 13357281 bceagle05 said: Quote: about KP leaving the first chance he gets because of all the misery and dysfunction in the franchise. max level guys almost never leave the team that drafted them before signing a second contract.

And 7'3 guys in particular would be dumb to decline an extension at year 4 for the opportunity to take less $$ and years after year 5.

homegrown guys get so much more money, he would be leaving 60 million on the table

In comment 13357324 dep026 said:

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And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings. Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years.

Reading between the lines..

Just long enough for Phil to get the axe

In comment 13357324 dep026 said:

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And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings. Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years.

Then buy him out. I think both Melo and rose could be useful for some even low end playoff teams. No point in keeping Rose at all around during this mess.

In comment 13357343 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13357324 dep026 said: Quote: And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings. Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years. Then buy him out. I think both Melo and rose could be useful for some even low end playoff teams. No point in keeping Rose at all around during this mess.

Why buy him out? Your losing with him anyways. If the goal is to lose, they are doing it now with this core. Rose has no value to anyone since they wont give anything up for him. And the statements that he is only looking out for himself is way overblown.

Not looking out for himself, I'd just want to see him play on a playoff team.

I'd at least make the ECF interesting if Rose went to play off the bench in Boston or Washington.

STAT

In comment 13357370 dep026 said:

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In comment 13357343 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13357324 dep026 said: Quote: And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings. Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years. Then buy him out. I think both Melo and rose could be useful for some even low end playoff teams. No point in keeping Rose at all around during this mess. Why buy him out? Your losing with him anyways. If the goal is to lose, they are doing it now with this core. Rose has no value to anyone since they wont give anything up for him. And the statements that he is only looking out for himself is way overblown.

I dont like Rose, as a player and probably on a personal level. But I dont like to impute motive to people without a lot of evidence. Who knows what lurks in Rose's head (especially with respect to Rose, who I think is not a normal person upstairs).

However, I dont remember if there was a direct quote but there have at least been second hand reports of Rose talking about his next contract. He disappeared on the team for a game. And most importantly is totally unwilling to take contact. That are at least checks in favor of the theory.

In comment 13357379 giantsfan44ab said:

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Not looking out for himself, I'd just want to see him play on a playoff team. I'd at least make the ECF interesting if Rose went to play off the bench in Boston or Washington.

I dont like the message it sends. I dont think Rose gave us his all, and I wouldnt want to reward that behavior with a release that lets him go for a title and redeem his value. Players should expect to go down with the ship they helped sink.

In comment 13357383 Deej said:

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In comment 13357370 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 13357343 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13357324 dep026 said: Quote: And he is still world's better than Brandon jennings. Your better off benching melo until he accepts a trade. Letting rose go after the season and just full blow tank for 2 years. Then buy him out. I think both Melo and rose could be useful for some even low end playoff teams. No point in keeping Rose at all around during this mess. Why buy him out? Your losing with him anyways. If the goal is to lose, they are doing it now with this core. Rose has no value to anyone since they wont give anything up for him. And the statements that he is only looking out for himself is way overblown. I dont like Rose, as a player and probably on a personal level. But I dont like to impute motive to people without a lot of evidence. Who knows what lurks in Rose's head (especially with respect to Rose, who I think is not a normal person upstairs). However, I dont remember if there was a direct quote but there have at least been second hand reports of Rose talking about his next contract. He disappeared on the team for a game. And most importantly is totally unwilling to take contact. That are at least checks in favor of the theory.

Even as a rose fan... I clearly know he is not the smartest person.

I think he's kind of a delusional guy. He walks to the beat of his own drum. He creates his own reality. Etc.

Isaiah Briscoe is fucking terrible.