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How do you feel about 2 TEs via the draft

BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 8:59 am
I don't actually see this happening, but there is a chance it could.

We could certainly have a shot at OJ Howard or Njoku in the first, which would give us a true TE.

I would also love to pickup Bucky Hodges as a 6'6 total mismatch TE. He still needs some polishing as a blocker, but no LB or CB can accurately cover this guy.

Of course this all could change based on combine and FA, but I wouldn't be upset.
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I like Adams as our 2nd TE  
superspynyg : 2/10/2017 9:00 am : link
He showed promise in a limited role last season.
more likely hodges and shaheen  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:04 am : link
so you get the bigger one who has the wider frame to get up to 280 as well.

a poor mans Jason whitten
if howard is gone  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:06 am : link
why go for two skinny ones
I'm all for a TE in the 1st (or 2nd)  
JohnB : 2/10/2017 9:13 am : link
but there is enough promise on the team to fill the backup role. If they pick one up as UDFA, I'm good with that but don't waste a pick on a 2nd TE.
RE: if howard is gone  
TommyWiseau : 2/10/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13356144 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
why go for two skinny ones


I like the upside of Njoku but think Howard is more NFL ready. Both I believe will be damn good TE's in the NFL. Their athleticism is off the charts
there may be some sleepers who fill the large fast wr role  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:19 am : link
in case it does not work out w njoku.

I cold see a 4th or 5th rounder going for an (albeit slower) legit two way TE and a late rounder on a large WR to fill a similar role.

possibly 4th and 5th rounds for these things broadly
for shits and kicks  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:25 am : link
by round:

1. Guard
2. DT
3. Guard
4. big TE such as Shaheen 6'5" 270
5 Ricky Seals Jones wr. 6'5" 240lbs (poor mans njoku"")
6. Fullback
7. wr/rb/kr/pr/center
Why doesn't anyone talk about  
Pete from Woodstock : 2/10/2017 9:34 am : link
Jake Butt in the third round?
Hodges falls down after every big catch.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 2/10/2017 9:34 am : link
He's really a WR also in that he hasn't blocked at all. I'm ok with him on day 3, but he's projected Day 1-2. Pass.

I'm on the Howard train after the senior bowl. I hope he drops to 23 which is possible if he doesn't test well at the combine. I've seen enough of him that he's fast on the field. Hope he drops.

If they go for a 2nd TE which is not a bad idea late in the draft assuming they pick up a Howard/Njoku early, I hope its a kid who can block. So tired of seeing the Giants running game destroyed.
No  
AcidTest : 2/10/2017 9:35 am : link
problem, but I doubt it happens.
sleeper UDFA wrs like 6'5" skinny  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:42 am : link
Bug Howard, see if they stick, get another type on the squad

(scout.com)

"Another reason Howard may continue to be overlooked? He’s too busy worrying about things that don’t show up in the statbook, according to Hood.

“He’s been practicing and working and it’s translated to game day,” Hood said. “It’s not just getting the ball, either. It’s the blocks, playing without the ball, he’s doing everything right."
"
I've said the same thing…this draft is deep in TEs  
No Where Man : 2/10/2017 9:45 am : link
and the only NFL worthy TE we have on the roster is Adams. I'd like Howard or Njoku in Round 1 and either Leggett or Sprinkle in Round 3. Last week Klattu said it would be a waste of resources to draft 2 TEs so he doesn't think its probable but we all say it is….Once we draft any 2 of these calibre players in this draft, and combine them with Adams, then the position would be solidified for the next 5-7 years.
RE: Hodges falls down after every big catch.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13356187 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
He's really a WR also in that he hasn't blocked at all. I'm ok with him on day 3, but he's projected Day 1-2. Pass.

I'm on the Howard train after the senior bowl. I hope he drops to 23 which is possible if he doesn't test well at the combine. I've seen enough of him that he's fast on the field. Hope he drops.

If they go for a 2nd TE which is not a bad idea late in the draft assuming they pick up a Howard/Njoku early, I hope its a kid who can block. So tired of seeing the Giants running game destroyed.


I was thinking Hodges in round 3. He can get open in traffic, and has great possession ball skills. Would it be nice to get some YAC, sure, but if he can go out there and as a miss match and get contested grabs that's all we need. He doesn't do stupid shit like Donnell when he gets tackled, and will be nightmare for D coordinators.

Hell BB drafted 2 TEs and that worked out pretty well for him.
The obsession about the TE is endless  
BillT : 2/10/2017 9:53 am : link
I don't think they'll take one on either day 1 or 2. I think they like Adams and still have FA to fill in with a vet.
I still see tye on the roster  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 9:55 am : link
as a fullback, hback and TE.

but by all means draft two TEs, allowing for one of those types you guys want, it could be fun to watch
TEs in the first and third? We have tried that before.  
Ivan15 : 2/10/2017 9:56 am : link
It didn't increase the odds of getting a quality player.

I don't like cluster drafting for a single position. Okay for linemen, LBs and DBs.
one thing about wrs, tes and backs  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 10:00 am : link
'falling down after a catch' :

IF it was not going to be caught -otherwise-, that shows an NFL type maturity of ones game.

Then, if it was catch most receivers were not making either way, same thing, it shows great body control.

both things are positives attributes, not negatives.

not commenting on hodges, 5 seconds of highlights doesn't do it, but if he is that player, it has value.

but as an every down in line TE? no, still need to upgrade that as well.
RE: TEs in the first and third? We have tried that before.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13356239 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
It didn't increase the odds of getting a quality player.

I don't like cluster drafting for a single position. Okay for linemen, LBs and DBs.


I get your thought process, but we ran an offense where the TE wasn't nearly as important in the years where we never drafted 1. Our offense is in desperate need of a 2 way TE that can block on the edges efficiently and split the seams. If we had a better option at TE, we could have split the cover 2 shell and give OBJ some more 1 on 1 looks.
I'd be shocked  
mattlawson : 2/10/2017 10:03 am : link
Other than Marty Bennett, are there going to be any decent free agents
.  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 10:05 am : link
#1 is game maturity: you have to want the reception more than the YACs, because without the first thing, team is not winning and you don't get yacs without the C part.

#2 is the ability to see the field and the body control to get the ball.

this year, we have a #1wr, so speed and etc can be #3 as opposed to #1.
with regards to catch and fall down as not bad  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 10:07 am : link
.
with regards to hodges  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 10:12 am : link
maybe 3rd round as a 'wr'

you still have not upgraded the TE, but its a useful and possibly fun to watch piece of the overall O.
to me, assuming we get 1 free agent OL  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 10:18 am : link
to do a Hodges draft:

by round:

1. OG
2. DT
3. Hodges 'te'
4. Shaheen TE
5. Fullback
6. WR
7. KR
I reserve judgment  
CT Charlie : 2/10/2017 10:58 am : link
until I read Sy's reports.
assuming we keep JPP and sign zietler  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 11:02 am : link
by round:

1. OT Moton to play left guard OG pugh to OLT
2. DT Qualls future and left DT 320lbs 6'1" pair w snacks
3. TE Hodges 'te/wr/hback
4. TE Shaneen TE classic style, poor mans whitten
5. FB Sam Rodgers Virginia Tech (wtf do I know, its from CBS draftscout)
or e holder or
d ball fullbacks also
6. WR Jamari Staples outside wr
or Ricky Seals Jones tall wr
7. C chase ruiller Wyoming, flyer on larger center or a dropped guard or short OT here for backup center
RE: I reserve judgment  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13356348 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
until I read Sy's reports.


Sy' or the Inside Football guy who writes the player draft reviews (Can't remember which guy did it, and having trouble finding the old thread) was drooling over Hodges. Wish I could find the TE review thread.
Jerry ....  
Beer Man : 2/10/2017 11:30 am : link
doesn't place that much value on the position for this to ever be a reality.
RE: Jerry ....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 11:37 am : link
In comment 13356406 Beer Man said:
Quote:
doesn't place that much value on the position for this to ever be a reality.


That was under Coughlin where we had an offense that didn't require an athletic TE. It would have been nice, but wasn't required.
They won't even spend a premium draft pick on ONE  
JonC : 2/10/2017 11:38 am : link
TE.
RE: RE: I reserve judgment  
Victor in CT : 2/10/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13356391 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13356348 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


until I read Sy's reports.



Sy' or the Inside Football guy who writes the player draft reviews (Can't remember which guy did it, and having trouble finding the old thread) was drooling over Hodges. Wish I could find the TE review thread.


Sy56 loves Hodges as a WR, NOT as a TE. I agree with him.
I think you need a playmaker at the TE position  
Reb8thVA : 2/10/2017 11:55 am : link
and someone who can block. If you can get both in one player, awesome. If not draft two. Other than Adams, there is no TE currently on the roster that inspires any confidence or argues against drafting two TEs if the circumstances are favorable.
Also, when you consider the team has:  
Beer Man : 2/10/2017 12:18 pm : link
- Adams who they feel has a lot of potential
- Tye – whom they like, but is limited
- LaCosse – who they keep saying they expect a lot from, but so far he can’t stay healthy long enough for anyone to know what we have
- Will Johnson – who is a FB/TE/H-Back type

None of these guys are world beaters, but there is enough there that they probably won’t be spending two draft picks on the position.
So, you draft two TE's....  
Doomster : 2/10/2017 12:52 pm : link
Does that mean Adams is the Starter, now?

Not a good scenario....
Let Adam's have his shot, that's why we drafted him  
PatersonPlank : 2/10/2017 12:56 pm : link
Tye is fine as the #2 TE. Draft elsewhere.
Depends on who  
djstat : 2/10/2017 1:10 pm : link
where they are drafted

what is their specialty

who are we not drafting etc...
RE: I've said the same thing…this draft is deep in TEs  
Klaatu : 2/10/2017 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13356206 No Where Man said:
Quote:
and the only NFL worthy TE we have on the roster is Adams. I'd like Howard or Njoku in Round 1 and either Leggett or Sprinkle in Round 3. Last week Klattu said it would be a waste of resources to draft 2 TEs so he doesn't think its probable but we all say it is….Once we draft any 2 of these calibre players in this draft, and combine them with Adams, then the position would be solidified for the next 5-7 years.


Did I say drafting two TEs would be a waste of resources, or did I say drafting two TEs would be a ridiculous waste of resources? I think I said "ridiculous," because that's exactly what it would be.

Sign a UFA like Dion Sims if you can, and then see how the draft shakes out. You still have Adams, whom the Giants are not going to give up on after one year, and you still have Tye and LaCosse. If you have the opportunity to draft a top-tier TE prospect somewhere in the first four rounds, then go for it, and let them compete with Sims, Adams, Tye and LaCosse. Three of those five will make the final 53.

You don't draft another TE prospect and pass up the chance to draft someone else to bolster your O-Line, D-Line, WR corps, RB corps, LB corps, or defensive backfield.

If you want to sign a UDFA or two and give them a shot in camp, fine.
RE: Hodges falls down after every big catch.  
adamg : 2/10/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13356187 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
He's really a WR also in that he hasn't blocked at all. I'm ok with him on day 3, but he's projected Day 1-2. Pass.

I'm on the Howard train after the senior bowl. I hope he drops to 23 which is possible if he doesn't test well at the combine. I've seen enough of him that he's fast on the field. Hope he drops.

If they go for a 2nd TE which is not a bad idea late in the draft assuming they pick up a Howard/Njoku early, I hope its a kid who can block. So tired of seeing the Giants running game destroyed.


I agree with you. I don't like Hodges as much as Leggett or even Butt. I think the Arkansas kid - Jeremy Sprinkle - would be the best 2nd TE if they did this - draft a TE other than Njoku or Howard (which I don't think they would).

And, if they did get Howard, they'd have no use for another TE. They'd be better off getting a Jordan Reed type or big X WR in the late rounds.
RE: assuming we keep JPP and sign zietler  
adamg : 2/10/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13356357 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
by round:

1. OT Moton to play left guard OG pugh to OLT
2. DT Qualls future and left DT 320lbs 6'1" pair w snacks
3. TE Hodges 'te/wr/hback
4. TE Shaneen TE classic style, poor mans whitten
5. FB Sam Rodgers Virginia Tech (wtf do I know, its from CBS draftscout)
or e holder or
d ball fullbacks also
6. WR Jamari Staples outside wr
or Ricky Seals Jones tall wr
7. C chase ruiller Wyoming, flyer on larger center or a dropped guard or short OT here for backup center


Pretending Pugh is going to OLT isn't helpful imo. He's the OLG of now and the future. I don't think they move him, no matter what happens around him.
if we find a very good left tackle in free agency and can still afford  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 1:33 pm : link
to keep the D intact, JPP, Hank and DRC, by all means, have at it.

Fans here have said there is no lock OLT at 23.

I would advise tearing apart a proven D in free agency to help pay for new pieces for a very unproven O coordinator and scheme is folly.

So, again, if you can find a proven great OLT and also keep the D intact, fine. Then you can have a really fun draft.

But someone work the numbers.
if you tear apart a great proven D  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 1:36 pm : link
to rob peter (D) to pay paul (O), that screams of NY Knicks style shortsightedness.

I don't have the time to work the numbers, if you can do both...fine.
I see TE's who will likely be useful role players . . . .  
TC : 2/10/2017 1:45 pm : link
either as UDFA's, or 7th round picks, which are almost the same thing.

I think we need to guard against believing that the draft is going to fill most holes. History argues otherwise.
How about  
TommyWiseau : 2/10/2017 1:51 pm : link
Jack Doyle from Indy. Guy is pretty good at everything but not sure what he will cost. Indy has some decent cap space this year
my fear is this  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 1:57 pm : link
too much emphasis on narrow motivations and preclusions, not my motivations at all, to be clear, but ones which may exist:

1. "elis shrinking time at QB'.

Fine, but my worry is you loose track of rational long term team building if you consider this too much.

2. ''you Don't move Pugh to OLT and you don't draft guards early''

Here my worry would be another in a very long list of woulda coulda shouda beens at OLT next year, due to inclination #1, above, Mannings time window;, they won't be able to resist at least trying, maybe reaching, once and yet again.

3. do all of that AND loose our best Defense stars via free agency, you could have an exceedingly mediocre Giant team next year.

other strategies:  
idiotsavant : 2/10/2017 2:10 pm : link
1. Keep D intact and trade up in the draft to gain a star OLT prospect.

(I personally would not do this and don't know the values for players enough to make that call, but it is not totally crazy either)

2. Keep the D intact and draft guards 1 and 2.

(close to my strategy)

3. Keep the D intact, do an all D draft and trade Manning for 2018 draft picks to spare him the abuse.

Draft all O in 2018.

(the 'mad-dog strategy', re-inforce your proven coordinator, Spagnulo, face the future and reality, wtf anyway, you might build a dynasty if you try this one)

4. let JPP and DRC and Hank go, invest in free agents all over the offense, especially the O line, 3rd wide out and try to replace DRC,HANK and JPP in the draft.

(yeah, best of luck with that one Charlie)

RE: my fear is this  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/10/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13356668 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
too much emphasis on narrow motivations and preclusions, not my motivations at all, to be clear, but ones which may exist:

1. "elis shrinking time at QB'.

Fine, but my worry is you loose track of rational long term team building if you consider this too much.

2. ''you Don't move Pugh to OLT and you don't draft guards early''

Here my worry would be another in a very long list of woulda coulda shouda beens at OLT next year, due to inclination #1, above, Mannings time window;, they won't be able to resist at least trying, maybe reaching, once and yet again.

3. do all of that AND loose our best Defense stars via free agency, you could have an exceedingly mediocre Giant team next year.


I have to ask do you have a job? You must have posted 20 times on here and like 5 posts back to back.
Jim in Forrest hills  
Tuckrule : 2/10/2017 3:34 pm : link
Lmao that's exactly the same thing I've noticed with Hodges in his highlights. Constantly catching the ball and leaving his feet And falling. Remind you of another tight end?

As a side note. Hodges to me is strictly a redzone target and not a tight end
One guy nobody has mentioned is Engram from Ole Miss  
Rjanyg : 2/10/2017 3:37 pm : link
This kid can fly and looks to be a good route runner with above average hands. Looks to be a competent blocker too. Not huge though, 6'3" 240 lbs. He might be a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
I'm reluctant to get excited about drafting a good TE  
Jersey55 : 2/11/2017 10:44 am : link
since Reese has shown what he thinks about the position, for some unknown reason we are unable to just plug in people like some other teams and be successful, why I don't know...
A bunch of holes to fill, both immediate and long term  
jcn56 : 2/11/2017 10:52 am : link
we don't have the luxury (as is the case for most teams). If you're lucky they'll take one TE.
also, I think we may have created another false dichotomy here  
idiotsavant : 2/11/2017 11:04 am : link
whereas we all seem to agree that having one (njoku or hodges or whomever, the skinny one who is skilled on par with good wrs) and the 'blocking one' as two different players is agreeable, if not ideal:

We seem to have allowed ourselves to believe the larger 'blocking tight end' , who is probably slower, and ok, less body control, cannot be also 'a playmaker' as a receiver, or a legit check down move the chains role player.

Which is an obviously false narrative if you look around the league, the bigger 260, 270 + lb blocking TEs can certainly be playmakers in their own right, otherwise you would just line up an extra OT out there.

Fullbacks and RB can fill similar roles.

With regards to providing a 'threat that opens things up deep for Odell, up the seam' ok, the other type, but, again, Dorg and Joey pointed out that this opening up more broadly can be achieved with the tall right side wide out as well, up the right sideline.

IF its the case that all three or four or five of those things can be achived in rounds 3-7, whereas the OG/OT can only be found at 23, that puts into question njoku, but not hodges.

But again, I have no idea about where the great OLers can be found, am only looking at our own history and drawing those repeated lessons.
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