How fondly do you view Bill Belichick?

Always a Giant

In comment 13356359 Steve L said:

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I don't get the hate for him. An incredibly innovative coach who has manipulated the system to his advantage. In theory he "cheated" but damn, I wish we never let him go.

same here

I definitely don't think once a Giant always a Giant, and I while I do think he appreciates his time in NY and the talent those teams had and the player he helped coach up, I don't think he considers himself a Giant.

I admire his results, consider him the GOAT, but I do not think fondly of him nor do I consider him a Giant forever anymore than I consider Ray Handley a Giant forever. Or Dan Reeves or Tom Landry or any other coach who left (through their own will or not).

80's could not hold BB in high esteem just as those from the 50's must have held Lombardi in high esteem or even Landry.

I take a great deal of pride in knowing what BB meant to the Giants in that time and how he directed one of the NFL's greatest defenses, how he developed game plans to stop the greatest offenses of the time in SF and Buffalo. SF never really dominated us during those times and neither did Buffalo.

BB is a huge part of Giants history...it wasn't like he was only here for a couple of years but ten years. The fact that he has been successful at NE is a great tribute to him and unfortunately the short sightedness of GY. We should have hired him after Reeves.

either and his offense played a part in the first two Giants SB's as well.

I see no reason that because Belichick went on to become a legendary head coach he should be considered any differently due to being Giants DC (and let's face it his schemes were great, but he had LT, Carson, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Marshall, Burt, Howard, Martin, Reasons, Van Pelt, etc.) to work with just in the front 7.

While Earhardt had some talent, not nearly what the defense did and Belichick still uses a lot of Earhardt principles in the Patriots offense.

I think Parcells fucked him over several times, and BB has come out being a far better coach. The Jets debacle was more on BP than BB.

there's only one coach I say fuck you, and that's BP. 'little' Bill makes BP look like an also ran. It's getting a bit tired now with BB constantly being in the playoffs and winning titles, while BP is withering away as a has been after fucking over virtually every team he's ever been with, but I will always hold a soft spot for Belichick.

I was quite surprised at how much people hate NE this year. I think they hate because they are year after year darn good. Helps to have a great QB, but a lot of HC's with good-great QB's don't have anywhere near the resume of BB. TC couldn't sniff the playoffs more years than not with Eli. I don't think there's a HC alive today that can dream of getting a whiff of the BB winning ways.

Of Football

my lasting memory is him being carried off the field in his red satin giants jacket by banks and lt? after we destroyed skins in nfc championship

That will always be tainted. Is there anything is sports lower?

to the Giants.

But he IS a cheater who knowingly breaks the rules to win. So there's that.

with Belichick - I'm more in awe of him and his football acumen

I keep a place for him as part of my best memories of the Giants

He reminds me of this guy (Yoda) ....



Nothing endearing about him (as is every wizard), very good to have on your side. But, are you going to choose him as your buddy ? - probably not.

said

don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional.

Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued.

once a Giant, always a Giant. and anyone who's read about him or saw his Football Life knows, he LOVES this organization above all. He'll be back in some capacity one day. You heard it here first.

Always root for the Pats cause I love the man

unlike Parcells. I think another big difference between the 2 Bills is that you couldn't count on Parcells to stay and finish the job through.

In comment 13356519 fkap said:

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don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued.

Then I'm delusional

I thought that was established years ago :)

In comment 13356549 fkap said:

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I thought that was established years ago :)

👍👏🏼

even though it was before Parcells did. I remember Russo saying on air that GY never thought Little Bill head coach material. Obviously his biggest mistake as Giants GM.

In comment 13356547 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 13356519 fkap said: Quote: don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued. Then I'm delusional

does wind tunnel ring a bell?

In comment 13356519 fkap said:

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don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued.

cheating has nothing to do with my feelings about Belichick, but can you list for us some of the ways the Giants have cheated on a regular basis?

In comment 13356614 ron mexico said:

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In comment 13356547 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 13356519 fkap said: Quote: don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued. Then I'm delusional does wind tunnel ring a bell?

teaching the D to kick the ball after plays in SB 25 to waste time?

In comment 13356615 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13356519 fkap said: Quote: don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued. cheating has nothing to do with my feelings about Belichick, but can you list for us some of the ways the Giants have cheated on a regular basis?

above mentioned opening and closing of the stadium gates to influence wind on the field is the most egregious.

Using a walkie talkie this year.

Smaller things like faking injuries to get time outs.

None of these bother, me. If you aint cheating you aint trying

and Landry leaving.... letting Belichick go was one of the worst organizational moves (player or coach) in franchise history.

This is not hindsight either. My father and I were saying even when Parcells was still here that Belichick was the brains behind the game plan. We both lost our minds when he left. Did we know that he would go on to win this many championships? Hell no...but we knew he was our future.

In comment 13356614 ron mexico said:

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In comment 13356547 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 13356519 fkap said: Quote: don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued. Then I'm delusional does wind tunnel ring a bell?

Or even more recenly - Giants got fined $200,000 for "bending the rules" just this past season because McAdoo illegally used a walkie-talkie.Can you imagine if that was Patriots?? People would have been crying to kick them out of the league...

I still don't think Big Blue 56 is delusional though. While we may disagree sometimes, he's excused because he's blinded by his passion for the G-Men. I get it...I'm guilty too.

In comment 13356624 ron mexico said:

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In comment 13356615 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13356519 fkap said: Quote: don't, or haven't cheated on a regular basis, IMO you are delusional. Whether BB pushed cheating to a little higher lever, or whether the Giants and others were better at not getting caught can be argued. cheating has nothing to do with my feelings about Belichick, but can you list for us some of the ways the Giants have cheated on a regular basis? above mentioned opening and closing of the stadium gates to influence wind on the field is the most egregious. Using a walkie talkie this year. Smaller things like faking injuries to get time outs. None of these bother, me. If you aint cheating you aint trying

This was done once, hardly fits the description of "regularly"

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Using a walkie talkie this year.

and the last time a team accused the Giants of this the player went on IR (Dan Connor):

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Smaller things like faking injuries to get time outs.

and the opening and closing gates is about as mythical as Jimmy Hoffa being buried in the end zone.

I certainly believe it's possible the Giants have cheated, but none of your examples are legit IMO.

In comment 13356629 EricJ said:

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and Landry leaving.... letting Belichick go was one of the worst organizational moves (player or coach) in franchise history. This is not hindsight either. My father and I were saying even when Parcells was still here that Belichick was the brains behind the game plan. We both lost our minds when he left. Did we know that he would go on to win this many championships? Hell no...but we knew he was our future.

again, Landry was not let go due to an organizational mistake. He retired, left football to go into the oil business. He had an engineering degree and he and his wife didn't like NY. When the NFL got wind of Lamar Hunt wooing him for the AFL, Wellington Mara intervened on behalf of the then expansion Cowboys. Lombardi was "loaned" to GB, but GB reneged.

Read Ernie Palladino's "Lombardi and Landry"

The Giants "lend" Lombardi to the Packers ....

http://www.bigblueview.com/nfl-playoff-schedule-2017-ny-giants-green-bay-packers-preview-recap-news/2017/1/7/14195942/how-vince-lombardi-was-hired-as-the-packers-head-coach-ny-giants-jim-lee-howell-tom-landry

As a Giant fan who came of age with the Parcell's Giants I remember Belichick with great fondness. And like many others of this era, I remember well how Parcells let Belichick go to Cleveland. We all thought at the time that Parcells didn't want Belichick to inherit the Giants because that would have diminished Parcells legacy with the Giants. And I still think that today about Parcells.

Not to Miller the thread with Parcells history, but the Bills really were tied together for much of their careers. I still resent Parcells for pushing Belichick out the door but at least he did so after bringing us two Super Bowls and pulling the franchise out of a thirty year shit hole.

I'm a bit dubious of the idea that Belichick is a Giant at heart. The guys a stone cold killer of a coach and the Giants delivered two pretty serious blows to his teams. Also, after following his career pretty closely and reading a fair amount about Belichick, the guy doesn't seem to have much affection for anyone or anything other than his work.

"and the last time a team accused the Giants of this the player went on IR (Dan Connor):

Smaller things like faking injuries to get time outs."

you dont remember this play?

In comment 13356673 trueblueinpw said:

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As a Giant fan who came of age with the Parcell's Giants I remember Belichick with great fondness. And like many others of this era, I remember well how Parcells let Belichick go to Cleveland. We all thought at the time that Parcells didn't want Belichick to inherit the Giants because that would have diminished Parcells legacy with the Giants. And I still think that today about Parcells. Not to Miller the thread with Parcells history, but the Bills really were tied together for much of their careers. I still resent Parcells for pushing Belichick out the door but at least he did so after bringing us two Super Bowls and pulling the franchise out of a thirty year shit hole. I'm a bit dubious of the idea that Belichick is a Giant at heart. The guys a stone cold killer of a coach and the Giants delivered two pretty serious blows to his teams. Also, after following his career pretty closely and reading a fair amount about Belichick, the guy doesn't seem to have much affection for anyone or anything other than his work.

Parcells didn't push Belichick out the door. George Young did. GY did not think that BB was Head COach material, thought that he lacked the "people skills" to be a successful HC.

It's comical when you think about it. GY didn't think Belichick could relate to people, but he thought Ray Handley was HC material.

In comment 13356673 trueblueinpw said:

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As a Giant fan who came of age with the Parcell's Giants I remember Belichick with great fondness. And like many others of this era, I remember well how Parcells let Belichick go to Cleveland. We all thought at the time that Parcells didn't want Belichick to inherit the Giants because that would have diminished Parcells legacy with the Giants. And I still think that today about Parcells. Not to Miller the thread with Parcells history, but the Bills really were tied together for much of their careers. I still resent Parcells for pushing Belichick out the door but at least he did so after bringing us two Super Bowls and pulling the franchise out of a thirty year shit hole. I'm a bit dubious of the idea that Belichick is a Giant at heart. The guys a stone cold killer of a coach and the Giants delivered two pretty serious blows to his teams. Also, after following his career pretty closely and reading a fair amount about Belichick, the guy doesn't seem to have much affection for anyone or anything other than his work.

Respectfully disagree. I watched NFL Network's "A Football Life" with Bill Belichick and in one part they're talking to him in MetLife Stadium and he was practically in tears talking about how well the Giants treated him and all his great memories there. Belichick definitely has a soft spot in his heart for the Giants and for the Mara family in particular.

I stand corrected there.

On the matter of Young pushing Belichick out, is there something written about Youngs involvement?

As I recall, Belichick was the obvious successor to Parcells but Parcells said he was going to continue to coach the Giants so Bill left for Cleveland and then Parcells all of the sudden had a health issue. Didn't know that Young pushed Belichick out.

In comment 13356677 ron mexico said:

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"and the last time a team accused the Giants of this the player went on IR (Dan Connor): Smaller things like faking injuries to get time outs." you dont remember this play?

I remember, and maybe it's semantics, but players feigning injury is not akin to organize-wide coordinated cheating.

And I'm not even saying the Patriots cheating wasn't overblown, but I have yet to see examples of the "Giants regularly cheating"

that lend credence to the notion that Young was not a fan of BB and would not have hired him as BP successor.

However, the chain of events was that BB left to become a HC in Cleveland, and later BP left on his health thingy (I always posit it in terms of bullshit leaving the team in a lurch at the last minute, but that's just my take, bolstered by BP leaving a lot of teams in the lurch). When BB left to be a HC in Cleveland, there was NOT a HC position available on the Giants. Why Young would say that BB was not a successor choice when supposedly he was never in the running, or how it could be construed that Young pushed him out is another issue.

In comment 13356724 trueblueinpw said:

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I stand corrected there. On the matter of Young pushing Belichick out, is there something written about Youngs involvement? As I recall, Belichick was the obvious successor to Parcells but Parcells said he was going to continue to coach the Giants so Bill left for Cleveland and then Parcells all of the sudden had a health issue. Didn't know that Young pushed Belichick out.

He made it very plain that he wouldn't give BB the top job.

"I don't know why," one Giants insider said. "George had his mind made up. You have to understand, George was a cerebral guy. Ray Handley was a cerebral guy. There is no use dragging that up."

and from our own Matt in SGS:

George Young did not think much of Defensive Coordinator Bill Belichick. He didn't feel that he was ready to be a head coach in the NFL, so never stood in his way to keep him around when teams came calling for him after the victory over the Bills. He was more concerned with Handley going to Law School than Belichick going to the Browns.

How about this tidbit from Matt in SGS:

Bill Parcells really pushed for Handley. Parcells coached with Handley back in 1968 at West Point. And in Parcells' second season as Giants Head Coach in 1984, he brought Handley on to his staff as an offensive assistant. In several interviews over the years, Parcells would refer to Handley as a "computer on his staff". He was noting Handley's attention to detail, football x's and o's intelligence, breaking down situations. Unfortunately, the Parcells' Giants were built in his own image. The team responded to Parcells' mindgames. Parcells was a cult of personality in leading the Giants. Handley was not ever going to be that same charismatic guy and Parcells was a tough act to follow. In fact, a few times, Handley would tell the press that it wasn't the coach's job to motivate players, they should do it themselves as professionals. So Parcells' own high opinion of Handley, actually would set him up to fail.

In Parcells book, he claims that he asked GY repeatedly if he should ask Belichick, Groh or Coughlin to stay, but that GY said no. BP claims that GY had his heart set on Handley.

Who to believe?
Giants blundered with Ray Handley hire, launched Bill Belichick's career Tweet email - ( New Window )

well known that LT was a coke fiend. Is that cheating? Giants certainly never fessed up to knowing it, although it's obvious they did.

You think the Giants weren't aware of players who juiced?

There's already been a list of things the Giants have been caught at. you want to pshaw all of them away, go for it.

At most I'll back off of 'regularly' cheating. Does cheating just as much as everyone else make it more palatable?

In comment 13356942 fkap said:

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well known that LT was a coke fiend. Is that cheating? Giants certainly never fessed up to knowing it, although it's obvious they did. You think the Giants weren't aware of players who juiced? There's already been a list of things the Giants have been caught at. you want to pshaw all of them away, go for it. At most I'll back off of 'regularly' cheating. Does cheating just as much as everyone else make it more palatable?

No. Patriots fans started a website "yourteamcheats.com" and it chronicles incidents or events that can be loosely considered cheating, but most not organizationally initiated and coordinated efforts.

A player testing positive for PEDs or banned substances is not organization-wide orchestrated attempts to circumvent rules.

It's individual efforts to artificially inflate (no pun intended) one's performance.

I'm not naive enough to believe the Giants haven't cheated or tried to get an advantage, but Belichick is well known for it.

there's either the official version of BP leaving the team after BB left, or BP always knew he was leaving and didn't stick up for BB. Why on earth would a team, knowing the HC was leaving, but wouldn't say so, go through such a scenario? I think there was a lot of bad blood all around, but the Giants were blindsided by BP's late departure, but that's my opinion. the alternative is that management was a clusterfuck.

When BB left, there was no HC opening available on the Giants. It makes no sense to view it as being pushed out.

It's what coordinators do when they have aspirations. they move on to a head coaching job, or move up the chain somewhere.

IF BP made it known that he was quitting, and the Giants didn't consider BB, I can accept the story, but BP didn't make it known he was quitting, or the whole official version is a lie

In comment 13356486 Big Blue '56 said:

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said

Fixed it for you.

That's a tough group to beat ....

Adams analyzes and iDs the details; Bilichick is the field general; McDaniels is the sideline eyes and Brady executes ...

They just create a unique air-tight plan that is metriculously prepared for each opponent .

Here an interesting article of the kind of contribution that Adams is good at ....

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4796766/what-advice-did-ernie-adams-give-patriots-qb-tom-brady

Him and Parcells wearing those tight short shorts was pretty
funny but the dude always had that defense ready to play.
It's hard to argue his success and having perhaps the
best QB thats ever played doesn't hurt .
He dumps pro-bowl type players in mid-season picks up
castoffs and gets the most of them .
I can understand the dislike he isn't very personal and knows
the rule book finds ways to skirt around some of the BS
thats in them . My buddy big Jets fan hates him so much it
affects his entire day it's too funny .

In comment 13356315 Boy Cord said:

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I have no positive feelings for him whatsoever. He can burn in hell for all I care.

Strange post but your entitled to your opinion

Without him, so gotta love him!

I really like that he always speaks fondly of his time with the Giants. He help create one of the Great defenses of that era to help win Two Super Bowls.
His Game plan to stop the Bills vaunted Offense was exceptional , along with the Ball control Offense.

So Along with Lombardi and Landry he is a worthy Giant coaching Alumni!

Faking an injury is being compared to videotaping the opposite teams practice on a Super Bowl week. But Hey whatever you have to tell yourself to help you deal with the fact that your team is full of low lives and cheaters.

...as the losing HC of two Giants Superbowl titles.

Once he finally retires from the game I'll reflect back and fondly view his tenure here and his role in bringing titles to the Giants in his own right.

The Maras passed on Tom Landry,Vince Lombardi,and
Bill Belichick to be their head coach. Belichick will
be considered as one of the best head coaches in NFL
history. Enough said.