but the Mets are in a bit of a roster crunch right now. They also had way more position players than pitchers on the 40 which is why I think they felt they had to drop Ty.
Montero, Edgin, Goeddel, and Gilmartin would have been my dumps.
I also think the Mets like to have some flexibility
on a spot or two. So Ynoa opens up Salas and Ty Kelly opens Blevins. What if we bring back KJ? That's likely Montero. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for in season stuff or a spring training surprise.
rotation looks so bad that they almost have to see if any remaining veterans are open to a minor league deal. Assuming at least 1 of Wheeler or Lugo is in the MLB pen (though Wheeler made pretty clear he's not going to be happy about this) the AAA rotation isn't bad, its fugly. You would assume they want more depth to dip into with so many injury ??
the loser of the #5 spot could go to Vegas, so either Wheeler or Gsellman unless they have that guy as long man/swingman role in the BP.
Gsellman in AAA would be absurd. Wheeler bitching about the pen likely means he's in AAA, Lugo in the MLB pen (again assuming everyone is healthy a HUGE if).
So likely
1. of Wheeler/Lugo + Montero + Gilmartin + Knapp + someone like Wilk or Pill or knuckleballer Mickey Jannis,
the loser of the #5 spot could go to Vegas, so either Wheeler or Gsellman unless they have that guy as long man/swingman role in the BP.
Gsellman in AAA would be absurd. Wheeler bitching about the pen likely means he's in AAA, Lugo in the MLB pen (again assuming everyone is healthy a HUGE if).
So likely
1. of Wheeler/Lugo + Montero + Gilmartin + Knapp + someone like Wilk or Pill or knuckleballer Mickey Jannis,
So if Gsellman loses out to Wheeler, they'll put him in the pen? Wouldn't his value be higher as a starter? Then I'm assuming he'll go to AA if thats the case about him in AAA.
I dont bring Lugo north at all. SP depth is much more important than having a decent long man right now. Him and Wheeler both can go to AAA. Bring all three lefties north or maybe find a spot for Sewald... get by with Goeddel if he looks better in ST... It's likely only going to be for 30 days until Familia is back anyway. I actually think Montero is a goner too. He's the clear next roster spot IMO if something else happens.
but I'm happy they kept Montero of Ynoa. It's more of an eye test thing for me. Montero's stuff actually looked a bit nasty last year but his control was completely out of whack.
Given his great control earlier in his development, I view Montero as a bit of a lottery ticket type of guy who could be a #3, #4 if his control comes back. Stash him in AA and let's see how he does.
Sandy is a man of his word the assumption is at least 1 of Wheeler/Gsellman/Lugo will be in the big league pen to open the season (Lugo obviously the highest odds). Small sample size or not Gsellman losing his rotation spot to Wheeler based on ST would be absurd barring Gsellman looking horrible or Wheeler looking amazing. Gsellman looked great down the stretch (stuff to back it up, not smoke and mirrors garbage). If I ran the team I'd have signed Joe Blanton and sent Lugo to AAA to start and Wheeler to AA to start, Gsellman in the rotation.
but I'm happy they kept Montero of Ynoa. It's more of an eye test thing for me. Montero's stuff actually looked a bit nasty last year but his control was completely out of whack.
Given his great control earlier in his development, I view Montero as a bit of a lottery ticket type of guy who could be a #3, #4 if his control comes back. Stash him in AA and let's see how he does.
100% in the minority. Across the board people commented on Ynoa's superior velocity/stuff vs. Montero. Montero being a #3 SP would be beyond stunning at this point.
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
bizarre is that Sandy mentioned Ynoa as a potential option to open the year in the big league pen (lumped in with Gsellman, Lugo, Wheeler), now I know Salas and Blevins are back now but that would imply Ynoa was at least "potentially" in their plans. Montero wasn't even mentioned in the more recent quotes.
is one of two things, either his psyche/confidence is shot or his stuff wasn't all that good.
His BB/9 earlier in his minor league career went like 1.6-2.0 in his first 3 years of pro ball. Then after his debut in 2014 to the majors, it shoots up and stays up thereafter. I'm thinking its a mental thing. Its salvagable, but how much more time do you want to invest in someone like that? Also, i'm not a pschiatrist.
is one of two things, either his psyche/confidence is shot or his stuff wasn't all that good.
His BB/9 earlier in his minor league career went like 1.6-2.0 in his first 3 years of pro ball. Then after his debut in 2014 to the majors, it shoots up and stays up thereafter. I'm thinking its a mental thing. Its salvagable, but how much more time do you want to invest in someone like that? Also, i'm not a pschiatrist.
They also oddly publicly "questioned" how much he wanted it which despite my critiques of the Mets is extremely unusual (even when a player isn't performing). Ike Davis got "party boy" stuff attached to him but they way they went after Montero is unusual.
is that the Mets staff felt good about Harvey, Degrom, and Matz coming back from injury, so they were comfortable with trading Ynoa. Otherwise, you keep all the best arms you got and then some.
is that the Mets staff felt good about Harvey, Degrom, and Matz coming back from injury, so they were comfortable with trading Ynoa. Otherwise, you keep all the best arms you got and then some.
I don't think it's at all related. Montero and Ynoa could have performed similar roles, they still have Goeddel on the 40 man. Harvey just began throwing so they wouldn't have any idea of his health at this juncture anyway (even if they feel confident he'll be okay).
Davis playing on the Israeli team for WBC (I'm a huge fan of this tournament).
Have you been following the Team Venezuela stuff? Really wild.
You mean Cabrera being snubbed? They can use more bodies but probably felt comfortable with all the SS on the roster. Some of them will play out of position.
DR and USA teams are loaded. DR should win it all because of pitching.
I was hoping trout and harper would both play for the USA team, would have made them a crazy fun super team.
Davis playing on the Israeli team for WBC (I'm a huge fan of this tournament).
Have you been following the Team Venezuela stuff? Really wild.
You mean Cabrera being snubbed? They can use more bodies but probably felt comfortable with all the SS on the roster. Some of them will play out of position.
DR and USA teams are loaded. DR should win it all because of pitching.
I was hoping trout and harper would both play for the USA team, would have made them a crazy fun super team.
It goes beyond that. Vizquel and Guillen reportedly almost came to blows and players threatened to boycott if Vizquel wasn't rehired as manager. Kind of wild these guys care so much about these things but apparently they do.
biggest takeaway from the Ynoa decision is they must really like Flexen a whole lot. On it's face if you way distance from the bigs + perceived upside (backend starter types) you would think Ynoa would have more value on the 40.
I almost wonder if moves like this are almost done to create "good will" with certain teams. I highly doubt the Mets are after the few 100K or whatever it is. They need a roster spot and could just DFA a guy but some team needs depth and likes a player maybe you create sort of an IOU situation/good will situation. "Hey, if we are at the deadline and I need a filler LOOGY for cash remember this!"
just because Sandy mentioned a few guys as possible bullpen options, doesn't mean that anything is set in stone nor was he implying they were. We dont even know what Familia's suspension is yet. Guaranteeing guys bullpen spots on February 10th seems a bit far fetched to me at least. There's probably 2-3 spots that are wide open in the pen assuming Familia is out.
So when he says something, it is often for strategic purposes rather than to convey an accurate representation of his plans to the media.
Exhibit A: trading Jay Bruce
Like Arcar said at the time, if you really need to dump his salary, why did you exercise his option in the first place? Obviously, as it turns out, Sandy had other reasons for announcing this
Mentioned Ynoa to the media so he could sell him for 50-100,000 to baltimore? lol I strongly beg to differ. Had they dfa'ed him he would have been claimed for 20,000. Clearly they valued Ynoa below some other guys. There was no amazing media usage/scheme at play
Actually wasn't saying anything even related to that at all..
I just meant sometimes moves like this might be done as a favor/good will for certain teams. Maybe Baltimore called up Sandy and said "hey we really like Ynoa and could use the depth right now... We know you have a roster jam." Maybe they preferred not to fight other teams for him if he was DFA. On a scale of 1-10 Sandy might consider Montero a 1 and Ynoa a 1.5 but might give him up just "because". We needed a roster spot anyway and maybe Baltimore remembers that down the road.
In the grand scheme of things... if we were going to be dependent on Montero or Ynoa this year we were probably in trouble either way. These are the definition of backend of 40 guys.
Yeah Vanzetti not you. The Mets evuluate players however they pleased and that's their right but talking about Ynoa in the pen at very best made the Mets the difference between 20,000 and 50-100,000. Sandy Isn't wasting his time making statements on players so they can pocket a few thousand dollars. That much I can guarantee
Imagine Sandy thinking "okay a waiver claim is 20,000, the oriole's a like Ynoa, I'll talk him up to make 50,000". I don't agree with Montero kept over Ynoa (I think ynoa has a real argument over Flexen as well given the 2017 Mets needs) but I'm not a scout. Maybe Montero has had a good offseason? I would have kept Ty Kelly as well so what do I know?
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Mentioned Ynoa to the media so he could sell him for 50-100,000 to baltimore? lol I strongly beg to differ. Had they dfa'ed him he would have been claimed for 20,000. Clearly they valued Ynoa below some other guys. There was no amazing media usage/scheme at play
Wasn't talking about Inoa specifically, though I can see why you would think I was. Just making a more general point, especially with regard to some of the young guys.
I think Sandy's plan has always been to have Conforto start in the minors. But he did not want to say that because it can affect a young player. Make him feel as if he doesn't have a chance to make the team no matter what he does in ST. So, Sandy says he is looking to trade Bruce and the media swallows the bait hook, line and sinker. So sandy never has to answer any questions about Conforto because now there is a "spot" for him. Then, as ST approaches, Sandy starts talking about how much they value Conforto--preparing the way for the kid to be sent down.
I have not always agreed with all of Sandy's moves but the guy is the absolute master when it comes to handling the media.
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Do you think Ty Kelly leaves a hole too?
Leaves a hole? No but he can play all over the field, showed well in a very small sample size and has an impressive minor league track record suggesting he might be a legit MLB utility guy who simply hasn't been given a chance
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Do you think Ty Kelly leaves a hole too?
Leaves a hole? No but he can play all over the field, showed well in a very small sample size and has an impressive minor league track record suggesting he might be a legit MLB utility guy who simply hasn't been given a chance
Agree, but if decision 1 was Montero or Ynoa to add Salas, who do you get rid of from a position player standpoint to add Blevins? Montero?
Personally would have kept Ynoa and Kelly and dropped Montero and Goeddel (awful year and arm has been hurt so many times the doctors admit his mri's come back inconclusive. I think Ynoa could easily give us what Goeddel "could"
Personally would have kept Ynoa and Kelly and dropped Montero and Goeddel (awful year and arm has been hurt so many times the doctors admit his mri's come back inconclusive. I think Ynoa could easily give us what Goeddel "could"
I would have kept Ynoa, Ty Kelly vs Goeddel don't care too much, Kelly's role will eventually be filled by Kelly Johnson.
split of pitchers and hitters on the 40 man (it was 20/20 last year). We were getting very heavy in the position player department (guys like Nimmo, Cheech, ect.) so Im guessing they cut Ty Kelly for balance purposes. Really the only other position player to consider is Reynolds and they likely preferred the SS glove?
for the record I'm not losing my mind over Kelly and he may yet end up a total turd (there are reasons he hasn't been given a shot) but his profile does fit that of a guy who ends up a solid bench player, doesn't mean it will happen.
Montero, Edgin, Goeddel, and Gilmartin would have been my dumps.
That's sure to go well in Vegas. Last 55 appearances 7.02 era, era+ a robust 58.
Quote:
They probably do invite a few more to camp.
That's sure to go well in Vegas. Last 55 appearances 7.02 era, era+ a robust 58.
lol. Never said they would be good options. hehe
Duquette on Ynoa: "This kid's got a chance to be a starting pitcher in the big leagues. He's got a lot of good qualities."
Duquette noted that Ynoa has "a good sinker, four-seam fastball that reaches 95 and a good changeup." Needs more consistent breaking ball.
Quote:
In comment 13356417 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
They probably do invite a few more to camp.
That's sure to go well in Vegas. Last 55 appearances 7.02 era, era+ a robust 58.
lol. Never said they would be good options. hehe
100% was just pointing out how badly he has sucked, not taking a shot at you I assure you.
Gsellman in AAA would be absurd. Wheeler bitching about the pen likely means he's in AAA, Lugo in the MLB pen (again assuming everyone is healthy a HUGE if).
So likely
1. of Wheeler/Lugo + Montero + Gilmartin + Knapp + someone like Wilk or Pill or knuckleballer Mickey Jannis,
Quote:
the loser of the #5 spot could go to Vegas, so either Wheeler or Gsellman unless they have that guy as long man/swingman role in the BP.
Gsellman in AAA would be absurd. Wheeler bitching about the pen likely means he's in AAA, Lugo in the MLB pen (again assuming everyone is healthy a HUGE if).
So likely
1. of Wheeler/Lugo + Montero + Gilmartin + Knapp + someone like Wilk or Pill or knuckleballer Mickey Jannis,
So if Gsellman loses out to Wheeler, they'll put him in the pen? Wouldn't his value be higher as a starter? Then I'm assuming he'll go to AA if thats the case about him in AAA.
Given his great control earlier in his development, I view Montero as a bit of a lottery ticket type of guy who could be a #3, #4 if his control comes back. Stash him in AA and let's see how he does.
Given his great control earlier in his development, I view Montero as a bit of a lottery ticket type of guy who could be a #3, #4 if his control comes back. Stash him in AA and let's see how he does.
100% in the minority. Across the board people commented on Ynoa's superior velocity/stuff vs. Montero. Montero being a #3 SP would be beyond stunning at this point.
2014 3.7 BB/9
2015 basically missed the season with a ghost shoulder injury the Mets didn't even believe he had
2016 4.1 BB/9
MLB level in 2016 19 innings... 39 baserunners!
73.1 major league innings 44 walks
Not sure I get that move.
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
How much cash was worth that?
Not sure I get that move.
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
How much cash was worth that?
They likely received the standard 50,000
Quote:
before trading Ynoa for cash.
Not sure I get that move.
Montero is 26 already and despite losing that control that his prospect status was based on, he's had reported attitude issues as well. Stash him in AA?
How much cash was worth that?
They likely received the standard 50,000
Not sure I understand this move.
His BB/9 earlier in his minor league career went like 1.6-2.0 in his first 3 years of pro ball. Then after his debut in 2014 to the majors, it shoots up and stays up thereafter. I'm thinking its a mental thing. Its salvagable, but how much more time do you want to invest in someone like that? Also, i'm not a pschiatrist.
His BB/9 earlier in his minor league career went like 1.6-2.0 in his first 3 years of pro ball. Then after his debut in 2014 to the majors, it shoots up and stays up thereafter. I'm thinking its a mental thing. Its salvagable, but how much more time do you want to invest in someone like that? Also, i'm not a pschiatrist.
They also oddly publicly "questioned" how much he wanted it which despite my critiques of the Mets is extremely unusual (even when a player isn't performing). Ike Davis got "party boy" stuff attached to him but they way they went after Montero is unusual.
Have you been following the Team Venezuela stuff? Really wild.
I don't think it's at all related. Montero and Ynoa could have performed similar roles, they still have Goeddel on the 40 man. Harvey just began throwing so they wouldn't have any idea of his health at this juncture anyway (even if they feel confident he'll be okay).
Quote:
Davis playing on the Israeli team for WBC (I'm a huge fan of this tournament).
Have you been following the Team Venezuela stuff? Really wild.
You mean Cabrera being snubbed? They can use more bodies but probably felt comfortable with all the SS on the roster. Some of them will play out of position.
DR and USA teams are loaded. DR should win it all because of pitching.
I was hoping trout and harper would both play for the USA team, would have made them a crazy fun super team.
Quote:
In comment 13356495 sshin05 said:
Quote:
Davis playing on the Israeli team for WBC (I'm a huge fan of this tournament).
Have you been following the Team Venezuela stuff? Really wild.
You mean Cabrera being snubbed? They can use more bodies but probably felt comfortable with all the SS on the roster. Some of them will play out of position.
DR and USA teams are loaded. DR should win it all because of pitching.
I was hoping trout and harper would both play for the USA team, would have made them a crazy fun super team.
It goes beyond that. Vizquel and Guillen reportedly almost came to blows and players threatened to boycott if Vizquel wasn't rehired as manager. Kind of wild these guys care so much about these things but apparently they do.
How much cash was worth that?
They likely received the standard 50,000
Safe to just assume it's more than 50k, not that it matters.
Didn't appear in the VWL despite announcing he would. He's done.
Exhibit A: trading Jay Bruce
Like Arcar said at the time, if you really need to dump his salary, why did you exercise his option in the first place? Obviously, as it turns out, Sandy had other reasons for announcing this
In the grand scheme of things... if we were going to be dependent on Montero or Ynoa this year we were probably in trouble either way. These are the definition of backend of 40 guys.
Yeah Vanzetti not you. The Mets evuluate players however they pleased and that's their right but talking about Ynoa in the pen at very best made the Mets the difference between 20,000 and 50-100,000. Sandy Isn't wasting his time making statements on players so they can pocket a few thousand dollars. That much I can guarantee
I think Ynoa leaves a hole.
You figure the Mets will need 8 - 11 starters.
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Do you think Ty Kelly leaves a hole too?
Wasn't talking about Inoa specifically, though I can see why you would think I was. Just making a more general point, especially with regard to some of the young guys.
I think Sandy's plan has always been to have Conforto start in the minors. But he did not want to say that because it can affect a young player. Make him feel as if he doesn't have a chance to make the team no matter what he does in ST. So, Sandy says he is looking to trade Bruce and the media swallows the bait hook, line and sinker. So sandy never has to answer any questions about Conforto because now there is a "spot" for him. Then, as ST approaches, Sandy starts talking about how much they value Conforto--preparing the way for the kid to be sent down.
I have not always agreed with all of Sandy's moves but the guy is the absolute master when it comes to handling the media.
I think Ynoa leaves a hole.
You figure the Mets will need 8 - 11 starters.
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Do you think Ty Kelly leaves a hole too?
Leaves a hole? No but he can play all over the field, showed well in a very small sample size and has an impressive minor league track record suggesting he might be a legit MLB utility guy who simply hasn't been given a chance
Quote:
was his versatility, I could take or leave him.
I think Ynoa leaves a hole.
You figure the Mets will need 8 - 11 starters.
Last year they had 12 starters and the guy who made the most starts is gone (Ynoa made 3).
If not Ynoa it means someone like Flexen, Montero, Pill, Knapp, etc. are making starts. Maybe they're better than Ynoa, who knows, but it left a hole IMO nonetheless.
Do you think Ty Kelly leaves a hole too?
Leaves a hole? No but he can play all over the field, showed well in a very small sample size and has an impressive minor league track record suggesting he might be a legit MLB utility guy who simply hasn't been given a chance
Agree, but if decision 1 was Montero or Ynoa to add Salas, who do you get rid of from a position player standpoint to add Blevins? Montero?
I would have kept Ynoa, Ty Kelly vs Goeddel don't care too much, Kelly's role will eventually be filled by Kelly Johnson.
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Rival scout likes Ynoa for Os: Plus command, pitchabilty. Chance for rotation spot, long relief, rotation insurance at AAA. Has option.