He saw a uni or helmet in an area and threw it towards the player. The great ones have that presence of mind, that warrior mentality. Some times it works, sometimes it doesn't. Had it been incomplete, we would have faced a 4th and 5, still very much alive
the safety arrived by the time the ball got there because Eli had to loft it. But no one was within ten yards of Tyree when he let it go. Ass BB56 said, it was a spontaneous, instinctive play that the great ones always seem to make.
I'm as die hard giants fan as anyone season ticket holder etc
As a realist and a fan of the team I can't help but shake my head when I read people calling Eli a great quarterback. If we are being realistic he isn't great he's good. He's had two miraculous runs one which the defense carried us and one where Eli did. Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams. I love Eli to death love what he has done for the franchise but great? I don't think so. Brady is great Peyton great Rodgers great does Eli fit in there?
Over the years, this might be BBI's most contentious issue, I believe - only possibly eclipsed by the number of us old guys on our couches who wouldn't sleep with the super model of the day because of a blemish on her elbow.
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
great elite m-eh words most relevant to talk about when
discussing HOF worthiness and justifying sportscasters' paychecks.
Eli a great QB or Elite? maybe not but when it was his turn to step up and be great and elite in the moment when he needed to be great and elite - he answered the call.
TWICE brought his team from behind in the last two minutes to win Super Bowls against heavily favored teams...one of which was undefeated. That's a good enough resume for me.
Very good post and I can fully agree with what you said. I'm only 28( I know I know) but my father and my uncle fully stand behind Simms as being better than Eli. A lot of fans I've spoke to at games this season have said Simms was definitely the better player. To me, eli is exactly where you put him, but rarely inching into the 6-10 category.
Thanks. Well, I'm 57, so I've seen all of Simms' career and I really can't say he was "better" than Eli. They played in different NFL's, so to speak. It's always interesting to debate whether one or the other could win with the other's roster (Eli with LT on D and having Bavaro as a TE), Simms with the more open passing rules nowadays. There's really no right answer, as all of us know. I'm just glad I saw them both. Some list of Connerly (sp.), Title, Simms and Eli. Put them in an order you'd like.
But if Eli gets one more shot at a Lombardi Trophy, he's the undisputed #1, I'd say.
Very good post and I can fully agree with what you said. I'm only 28( I know I know) but my father and my uncle fully stand behind Simms as being better than Eli. A lot of fans I've spoke to at games this season have said Simms was definitely the better player. To me, eli is exactly where you put him, but rarely inching into the 6-10 category.
Tuck, Simms couldn't hold Eli's Jock, imo..No disrespect to dad and your uncle, but I believe there's some revisionism here. Yes, Simms had great moments and there's always XXI to be in awe of, but the fact is He was quite erratic at times. Heart of a Lion, gutsy and one of my all time favorites, but sorry, not in Eli's class, whether you think Eli is great/elite or not..
I can't really offer any argument regarding Eli over Simms. But I'm not guilty of passing over Simms' flaws. There were many, but - like Eli - he delivered when it mattered most.
Oops - I can't really offer any argument regarding Simms over Eli. But I'm not guilty of passing over Simms' flaws. There were many, but - like Eli - he delivered when it mattered most.
than Eli Manning. Even after delivering two of the most memorable championship wins in franchise history, numerous exciting last minute wins, and years of just meaningful and enjoyable football, every throw, every run, every play is analyzed to death.
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
no offense taken and I understand people back there own guys for different reasons. I appreciate hearing from fans who got to see both play because thats the only insight I get.
than Eli Manning. Even after delivering two of the most memorable championship wins in franchise history, numerous exciting last minute wins, and years of just meaningful and enjoyable football, every throw, every run, every play is analyzed to death.
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
Not certain if they are spoiled, mad at dropped passes, or think any QB should be a robo-perfect QB. Because their are not many you can name in the history of the NFL.
Having lived though the lean years, Simms was under valued played in an era when the NFC East was the black and blue division where wars were fought and the monster in the room with great defenses as teams played our division.
If the Eagles had a better plain instead of just hoping OBJ, OOPS, I mean Randle making a play here or there they would have won a few superbowls.
Had a conversation with Dan Mario once, and he told me Simms playing in a predictable offense that was geared for the run with no real weapons did much more than he was given credit for. He also noted as its out there Walsh was very interested in drafting him for the niners. Plus it was not a vertical game then, so less options. AND he still threw for a lot of yardage too. If not for the cap he easily had two more good seasons in him.
Then we had a gap in QB's a wasteland as we refused and or to struggled to manage the cap well, and not until Eli Manning did we have a shot at winning every game.
The last few years
Without a running game.
Without a TE
Without an OL for a good part of his career
(he did have one once upon a time)
With one stud WR, first Plax then OBJ.
With a top ten defense how many times in his career 3X's
Look at how many # 1 defenses Big Ben had compare the stats between the two QB's suddenly not that much of a difference.
Still think we lost a SB by choking against the Packers in the playoffs. Matched up well against Dallas, Atlanta would have been tough, and think we beat the Pats because we matched up well against them without Gronk and our defense.
I would rather have a QB that gives me a chance at winning although breath taking at times vs a QB like a Cutler who quits on his team in a championship game.
Eli might not be a top ten QB in the HISTORY of the game, but when he retires his numbers will say he is better than average, and the best QB in the history of the NY Football Giants. And he will be missed.
not so much in the New York area, but nation-wide. I'm guessing because of the name and the draft day trade. Bottom line as a Giants fan, in his era, he's been damn good to me as a fan. Some times he's the best, some times he stinks. What I know, he's delivered two Super Bowl wins to this franchise. He plays every down. Other teams like the Browns, the Jets, look/draft QB's almost every other year. We've had one for 12+ years. He's a Hall of Famer in my opinion. On and off the field.
RE: I don't think there has been a more overly scrutinized Giant....
than Eli Manning. Even after delivering two of the most memorable championship wins in franchise history, numerous exciting last minute wins, and years of just meaningful and enjoyable football, every throw, every run, every play is analyzed to death.
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
Boom. This.
He's the greatest Giants of all time. And he gets shit on constantly.
RE: I'm as die hard giants fan as anyone season ticket holder etc
As a realist and a fan of the team I can't help but shake my head when I read people calling Eli a great quarterback. If we are being realistic he isn't great he's good. He's had two miraculous runs one which the defense carried us and one where Eli did. Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams. I love Eli to death love what he has done for the franchise but great? I don't think so. Brady is great Peyton great Rodgers great does Eli fit in there?
The problem is your younger and all you've ever seen is QBs routinely throw up 35/10 40/5 type numbers....I'm 40 this year- When I was growing up, 20Tds was a big deal.
Eli isn't Brady
Eli isn't his brother
But, after "Matty Ice" and the Falcons shitting the bed in the SB, Eli is at the top of that next level (Brees, Romo, Big Ben, etc)
I loved Simms, and pletny of Giants fans bitched about Simms.
Over the years, this might be BBI's most contentious issue, I believe - only possibly eclipsed by the number of us old guys on our couches who wouldn't sleep with the super model of the day because of a blemish on her elbow.
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
+1... But Simms while only winning one SB, is still my QB... Eli is 1A. Glad we had both, and yes I shall miss the ol' Etard... LOL
Over the years, this might be BBI's most contentious issue, I believe - only possibly eclipsed by the number of us old guys on our couches who wouldn't sleep with the super model of the day because of a blemish on her elbow.
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
+1... But Simms while only winning one SB, is still my QB... Eli is 1A. Glad we had both, and yes I shall miss the ol' Etard... LOL
There will be a time when an Eli thread discussing his great moments or accomplishments won't turn into a discussion of opinions on how overrated said opinions believe he was\is.
Went to most games Simms played in at home. To compare Eli to him is an insult. LOVED Simms and his toughness (very similar to Eli in that respect despite his farmboy looks), however, Eli is at a much higher level than Simms. Much better in his reads, much better in making adjustments and throwing the sideline pass much better than Simms. Again, I love Simms but despite Eli's inconsistencies, he is the better QB. Many of you doubters will learn when Eli is gone,sadly.
As a realist and a fan of the team I can't help but shake my head when I read people calling Eli a great quarterback. If we are being realistic he isn't great he's good. He's had two miraculous runs one which the defense carried us and one where Eli did. Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams. I love Eli to death love what he has done for the franchise but great? I don't think so. Brady is great Peyton great Rodgers great does Eli fit in there?
So it makes you upset when nyg fans praise their two time winning qb and label him "great" because great is great only if he's truly great and who the hell cares anymore.
Eli has had a great career. Period. Call him what you want to call him. He's had a great career. And that's all the matters must we debate Eli's stature every time someone praises him? He's great. Deal with it.
Very good post and I can fully agree with what you said. I'm only 28( I know I know) but my father and my uncle fully stand behind Simms as being better than Eli. A lot of fans I've spoke to at games this season have said Simms was definitely the better player. To me, eli is exactly where you put him, but rarely inching into the 6-10 category.
Simms threw a better spiral to bavaro. He's nowhere near the qb Eli is. Not even close. I watched both qbs. Tell your old timer friends to open their eyes. Eli never missed 4 seasons of play. That counts.
Fans are nuts if they think Simms was better. The body of work for both tells a clear story.
It's a fun debate but a lot of Giants fans are full of shit with this Eli Simms stuff. The fans saying Simms was better are the same ones that bashed and booed Simms relentlessly back in the late 80s. Now Simms is the cat's pajamas to everyone. Seriously, not one Giants fan today complains about Simms. But these same fans complain about Eli. It's old.
Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams
Can you give an example of these "talented offensive teams"...
dude really go look at his skill players.your fooling yourself if you think those teams didnt have talent at the skill positions. He wasnt throwing to guys like pinkston and james thrash
you didnt come off dooshy at least to me but its a fun debate and yes im on the younger side but it doesnt bother me when people call eli great but the truth is hes great at times and very pedestrain at others. His career is an inconsistent one and like i said before hes in the 10-15 range every year and has snuck into the top 10 maybe 2-3 times in his career 2011 being an obvious year
you didnt come off dooshy at least to me but its a fun debate and yes im on the younger side but it doesnt bother me when people call eli great but the truth is hes great at times and very pedestrain at others. His career is an inconsistent one and like i said before hes in the 10-15 range every year and has snuck into the top 10 maybe 2-3 times in his career 2011 being an obvious year
You should remember that before Eli we had Amani Toomer and that was pretty much it. We had a terrible time developing any WR talent. Early in Eli's career we went and got Plax because we needed talent. Since Plax left Eli has been making WRs great and that's what the great QBs do. We have had a revolving door of WRs since the departure of Plax. You can't just brush that over. He made Dominic Hixon look like a legit WR.
starting in 09 nicks, manningham, hixon ,steve smith and kevin boss you can do a whole lot worse than that. The fact that fans continually pretend that Eli has made WRs beter isnt true. I urge any giants fan to find a roster eli had that you would call a poorly talented team. The asnwer to that question is his rookie year the follwing season we got him plax and since then he has had very good WRs
I know hes come up huge in spots and I know hes a great leader I get all that but the truth is right there. Go year by year and look at his skill players and you will be pleasantly surprised what you find
I know hes come up huge in spots and I know hes a great leader I get all that but the truth is right there. Go year by year and look at his skill players and you will be pleasantly surprised what you find
You are on crack. I know your a young fan as am I. I can't remember the glory days of Simms. I remember Dave Brown, Danny Kennel, Kent Graham, and Kerry Collins and non of them had legit WRs besides Toomer. Eli has helped develope a the best WR groups we have ever had. Put a different last name on his Jersey and you would be kissing his feet.
starting in 09 nicks, manningham, hixon ,steve smith and kevin boss you can do a whole lot worse than that. The fact that fans continually pretend that Eli has made WRs beter isnt true. I urge any giants fan to find a roster eli had that you would call a poorly talented team. The asnwer to that question is his rookie year the follwing season we got him plax and since then he has had very good WRs
2013.
Peyton Hillis, Brandon Myers, Ramses Barden, Cruz/Nicks hurt.
tend to really over rate some of our talent over the years. Do people realize as much of a joke as the PB is, the first WR to make the PB in years was Steve Smith, who did it one year. After him it was Cruz I believe once and OBJ. Not one of our WR's until OBJ have been an All Pro. None of our WR's who left this team ever went on to do anything. As good as Plax was for the Giants, before he came here he was simply a good WR for Pitt and that was it. I could go on and on, but I shouldn't have to. People really need to start understanding the talent other teams have in comparison.
RE: I'm as die hard giants fan as anyone season ticket holder etc
As a realist and a fan of the team I can't help but shake my head when I read people calling Eli a great quarterback. If we are being realistic he isn't great he's good. He's had two miraculous runs one which the defense carried us and one where Eli did. Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams. I love Eli to death love what he has done for the franchise but great? I don't think so. Brady is great Peyton great Rodgers great does Eli fit in there?
All depends on your defnition of Great. As Giant fans...Eli is our Great.
you didnt come off dooshy at least to me but its a fun debate and yes im on the younger side but it doesnt bother me when people call eli great but the truth is hes great at times and very pedestrain at others. His career is an inconsistent one and like i said before hes in the 10-15 range every year and has snuck into the top 10 maybe 2-3 times in his career 2011 being an obvious year
I wouldn't call Eli's career inconsistent. Not in the least. He's been a rock. He's won two super bowl titles. never misses a game. Leaving out his rookie season, Eli hasn't really ever had a bad year, save for 2013 when the entire offense went to shit. I'm sorry, but Eli was not bad in 2015 no matter what people say. He was up and down and at times he looked like a guy that was managing the game and playing not to lose, and even worse he threw some brutal INTs...but he won 11 games and compiled his typical stats.
Eli has been the very model of consistency. Playing in a terrible media market in an outdoor cold weather stadium in a very very good division...the guy has delivered. LIke I said, he might not be a "great" QB...but he's had a great career. And no one can dispute that. His numbers are there. The hardware is there. Period.
it's not even close. If you were tasked with choosing which QB to build your team around and you have a shred of football knowledge you would always pick Eli over Simms. When Simms was in the tub for 2-3-4 years Eli was winning division titles and super bowls already.
Eli has been the face of the NYG franchise since 2004-05. Simms needed 5 years to even start the engines. That's a huge factor. At their best? They were both elite players that could make all the throws and beat any team anywhere at any time. Eli just had a longer peak.
IN THE NOW, no jeans!
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
Eli a great QB or Elite? maybe not but when it was his turn to step up and be great and elite in the moment when he needed to be great and elite - he answered the call.
But if Eli gets one more shot at a Lombardi Trophy, he's the undisputed #1, I'd say.
Tuck, Simms couldn't hold Eli's Jock, imo..No disrespect to dad and your uncle, but I believe there's some revisionism here. Yes, Simms had great moments and there's always XXI to be in awe of, but the fact is He was quite erratic at times. Heart of a Lion, gutsy and one of my all time favorites, but sorry, not in Eli's class, whether you think Eli is great/elite or not..
If his name was Eli Smith, people would view him differently.
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
Or the 2007/2011 line. Settle for that? 😎
Agreed.
Hands down and I saw them all. Extensively.
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
Hear, hear!
Not certain if they are spoiled, mad at dropped passes, or think any QB should be a robo-perfect QB. Because their are not many you can name in the history of the NFL.
Having lived though the lean years, Simms was under valued played in an era when the NFC East was the black and blue division where wars were fought and the monster in the room with great defenses as teams played our division.
If the Eagles had a better plain instead of just hoping OBJ, OOPS, I mean Randle making a play here or there they would have won a few superbowls.
Had a conversation with Dan Mario once, and he told me Simms playing in a predictable offense that was geared for the run with no real weapons did much more than he was given credit for. He also noted as its out there Walsh was very interested in drafting him for the niners. Plus it was not a vertical game then, so less options. AND he still threw for a lot of yardage too. If not for the cap he easily had two more good seasons in him.
Then we had a gap in QB's a wasteland as we refused and or to struggled to manage the cap well, and not until Eli Manning did we have a shot at winning every game.
The last few years
Without a running game.
Without a TE
Without an OL for a good part of his career
(he did have one once upon a time)
With one stud WR, first Plax then OBJ.
With a top ten defense how many times in his career 3X's
Look at how many # 1 defenses Big Ben had compare the stats between the two QB's suddenly not that much of a difference.
Still think we lost a SB by choking against the Packers in the playoffs. Matched up well against Dallas, Atlanta would have been tough, and think we beat the Pats because we matched up well against them without Gronk and our defense.
I would rather have a QB that gives me a chance at winning although breath taking at times vs a QB like a Cutler who quits on his team in a championship game.
Eli might not be a top ten QB in the HISTORY of the game, but when he retires his numbers will say he is better than average, and the best QB in the history of the NY Football Giants. And he will be missed.
Go root for the Jets if your going to be hater.
Can you give an example of these "talented offensive teams"...
At the end of the day Eli Manning will go down as my favorite Giant player ever and I don't care if that makes me an apologist.
Boom. This.
He's the greatest Giants of all time. And he gets shit on constantly.
The problem is your younger and all you've ever seen is QBs routinely throw up 35/10 40/5 type numbers....I'm 40 this year- When I was growing up, 20Tds was a big deal.
Eli isn't Brady
Eli isn't his brother
But, after "Matty Ice" and the Falcons shitting the bed in the SB, Eli is at the top of that next level (Brees, Romo, Big Ben, etc)
I loved Simms, and pletny of Giants fans bitched about Simms.
Eli is the greatest Giant of all time (LT #2).
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
+1... But Simms while only winning one SB, is still my QB... Eli is 1A. Glad we had both, and yes I shall miss the ol' Etard... LOL
Quote:
Over the years, this might be BBI's most contentious issue, I believe - only possibly eclipsed by the number of us old guys on our couches who wouldn't sleep with the super model of the day because of a blemish on her elbow.
Anyway, back to Eli. Perhaps one way to look at it is - an overgeneralization, but still - Eli was never as good as most of us here wished him to be, but was significantly better than most of his detractors believe he is. Where that middle ground is, I can't say. For me, I think on any given start of an NFL season, he ranks from 10 - 15 in starting QB ability of the 32 slots. Sometimes he inches into 6 - 10 range and sometimes he slips below 15.
Finally, with all his flaws I too believe we'll have a tough time replacing him. I go back to the Tarkenton era and Eli ranks right with Simms, I think. I'll miss him when he's gone.
+1... But Simms while only winning one SB, is still my QB... Eli is 1A. Glad we had both, and yes I shall miss the ol' Etard... LOL
Etard...seriously...???
What a tool...
I loved Simms, and pletny of Giants fans bitched about Simms.
BBI would have been unmerciful towards Simms great moments/memories notwithstanding..
Sorry, I question the judgement of anyone that routinely supports Joe Paterno. So your opinion is mute in my book.
So it makes you upset when nyg fans praise their two time winning qb and label him "great" because great is great only if he's truly great and who the hell cares anymore.
Eli has had a great career. Period. Call him what you want to call him. He's had a great career. And that's all the matters must we debate Eli's stature every time someone praises him? He's great. Deal with it.
Simms threw a better spiral to bavaro. He's nowhere near the qb Eli is. Not even close. I watched both qbs. Tell your old timer friends to open their eyes. Eli never missed 4 seasons of play. That counts.
Fans are nuts if they think Simms was better. The body of work for both tells a clear story.
It was an amazing play all around. It counts. Can't take that away.
Quote:
Outside of that he's had many pedestrian seasons on talented offensive teams
Can you give an example of these "talented offensive teams"...
dude really go look at his skill players.your fooling yourself if you think those teams didnt have talent at the skill positions. He wasnt throwing to guys like pinkston and james thrash
You should remember that before Eli we had Amani Toomer and that was pretty much it. We had a terrible time developing any WR talent. Early in Eli's career we went and got Plax because we needed talent. Since Plax left Eli has been making WRs great and that's what the great QBs do. We have had a revolving door of WRs since the departure of Plax. You can't just brush that over. He made Dominic Hixon look like a legit WR.
You are on crack. I know your a young fan as am I. I can't remember the glory days of Simms. I remember Dave Brown, Danny Kennel, Kent Graham, and Kerry Collins and non of them had legit WRs besides Toomer. Eli has helped develope a the best WR groups we have ever had. Put a different last name on his Jersey and you would be kissing his feet.
2013.
Peyton Hillis, Brandon Myers, Ramses Barden, Cruz/Nicks hurt.
All depends on your defnition of Great. As Giant fans...Eli is our Great.
Anak : 2/3/2008 9:51 pm : link
WHAT THE FUCK!
I wouldn't call Eli's career inconsistent. Not in the least. He's been a rock. He's won two super bowl titles. never misses a game. Leaving out his rookie season, Eli hasn't really ever had a bad year, save for 2013 when the entire offense went to shit. I'm sorry, but Eli was not bad in 2015 no matter what people say. He was up and down and at times he looked like a guy that was managing the game and playing not to lose, and even worse he threw some brutal INTs...but he won 11 games and compiled his typical stats.
Eli has been the very model of consistency. Playing in a terrible media market in an outdoor cold weather stadium in a very very good division...the guy has delivered. LIke I said, he might not be a "great" QB...but he's had a great career. And no one can dispute that. His numbers are there. The hardware is there. Period.
Eli has been the face of the NYG franchise since 2004-05. Simms needed 5 years to even start the engines. That's a huge factor. At their best? They were both elite players that could make all the throws and beat any team anywhere at any time. Eli just had a longer peak.