2-3 spot....give up a 4th or 5th. yes. if we are taking about giving up a 2nd or 3rd, then no. again, though, this is all subject to the professionals doing all the due dillagence.
I'd love to get a seam buster, and if he were a legit blocking TE that could take this O up a notch
We would need to move up. I'd have no problem moving up to 19 or 20 for him. He's a guy who can change the whole offense IMO. I'd prefer to stay put and draft David Njoku though.
In round 1 or 2. No such thing as too many holes. No one looks back and says the Giants had too many holes in 2002 for shockey or 2015 for Collins. Giants need impact players. If they love a guy enough to trade up have at it. This is also assuming the Giants fill a hole or two in FA .
try to do what BB does, namely, stockpile draft picks. Even the best scouts know that the draft is a crapshoot, so hedge your options by stocking up on picks.
try to do what BB does, namely, stockpile draft picks. Even the best scouts know that the draft is a crapshoot, so hedge your options by stocking up on picks.
The Pats also have like 20 players on their draft board, supposedly.
There are a number of interesting mid and late round TE prospects. And we have yet to learn if they'll attempt to address this in FA.
My only concern is that Reese and company might believe they've got it covered. I like Adams' physical ability, but we've yet to learn if that translates into a reliable NFL TE. Tye is Tye. Donnell, hopefully, is gone. And the other guys are yet to do much at all. Need help, but I'm not sure Reese sees it that way.
moving up one spot in the first or a handful of spots in the second to target a player. It is a totally different thing when we are sitting at 23 and Howard is now being rumored to be going as high as the Jets at 6. He is almost going much earlier than we can afford. If he drops to 20 then we can start talking. And it always comes down to risk and reward. Obviously the Giants had a first round grade on Collins so that allowed them to work the phones to get him with the first pick in the second. I think I read that had it not been a break in the draft that the trade wouldn't have happened.
I would Love if we landed him but we can't afford to lose
picks the draft is deep at the TE position I really hope
we get one in the first 3 rounds we need a playmaker with
size and strength . Hopefully Adams develops and don't
want to see Tye or Donnell on Sunday
try to do what BB does, namely, stockpile draft picks. Even the best scouts know that the draft is a crapshoot, so hedge your options by stocking up on picks.
The Pats have AVERAGED 9.2 draft picks per draft over the last 10 years. But there's a lot more too it than just a lot of draft picks. That's just one part of a comprehensive and closely integrated SYSTEM.
A legit TE is to our current offense. Ask yourselves how many times we were able to run outimside the tackles this year? Ask yourselves how many times our OTs couldn't block a man for 3 seconds? Ask uourselves if we ever threatened a safety down the middle of the field making it easier for Beckham or Cruz on the outside? A legut TE is a huge need. Ranking the needs is dumb. Just because we need a pass rusher and OL doesn't minimize tge fact that we need a TE. For those saying lets see what we have in Adams is like saying Flowers is our LT. Competition breeds success. We need someone else ro compete with Flowers and we need another TE in addition to Adams. Relying on one unproven guy as in both situations is a recipe for disaster.
"Hell NO! We have lots of holes and we can't afford to give up any picks!"
-Most BBI Posters
I'm not saying that I would trade up for Howard. But if the Giants were convinced that OJ was a difference maker, then why not?
Check the NFL Draft picks from 5 years ago or more. How many picks from rounds 3 - 7 were even average NFL players? How many of them played for 3 or more years? How many of them do you even remember?
RE: TE is not a priority for us. Let Adams have it and see how he does
No freaking way I want to go into next season with another project at TE. I think he does have promise and belongs as backup, but no way as a starter right now. TE is too big a weapon in the NFL today for the Giants to continue to go that route.
I'm usually driving the TE Bandwagon this time of year, but this year I really don't have a favorite. I'd be happy with any one of a half-dozen prospects, but I'll probably narrow that down after the Combine. Of course I'd love to land Howard if by some miracle he fell to us at 23, but I doubt he'll last that long, and I figure the cost to move up to draft him will be prohibitive.
Have a TE capable of making an impact on the game. The NYG WC has backups and JAG's at the position. I'm not saying we should trade up, but we do need to upgrade the talent in that position room.
moving up one spot in the first or a handful of spots in the second to target a player. It is a totally different thing when we are sitting at 23 and Howard is now being rumored to be going as high as the Jets at 6. He is almost going much earlier than we can afford. If he drops to 20 then we can start talking. And it always comes down to risk and reward. Obviously the Giants had a first round grade on Collins so that allowed them to work the phones to get him with the first pick in the second. I think I read that had it not been a break in the draft that the trade wouldn't have happened.
This i agree with, Rob. I wouldn't be thrilled if they traded a batch of picks.
What if they did what atl did for Julio Jones? My god bbi would melt.
moving up one spot in the first or a handful of spots in the second to target a player. It is a totally different thing when we are sitting at 23 and Howard is now being rumored to be going as high as the Jets at 6. He is almost going much earlier than we can afford. If he drops to 20 then we can start talking. And it always comes down to risk and reward. Obviously the Giants had a first round grade on Collins so that allowed them to work the phones to get him with the first pick in the second. I think I read that had it not been a break in the draft that the trade wouldn't have happened.
Robbie, this is my thinking also.
I am not a scout and I do not watch much college football
With the number of quality TEs in the class. If Howard is gone, Njoku may be there in 1. Leggett, Engram, Everett, or Hodges should be there in either the 2nd or 3rd. We don't need to go crazy in 1 for a TE, especially since we have other needs even as far as offensive play makers go. Trading up in 2 or 3 may make more sense, if we want to be safe.
Trading up for a OLT would also be a different story, but I think the same conclusion. We need to get a couple of these offensive players in FA, the one surefire pick up an OLT.
As always it would depend on how far we have to move up...
But if you trade up in the first for a TE, the guy better be Gronk and Howard aint Gronk. Also, factor in how loaded this TE class is and that's a hard no. We can grab an instant upgrade, with upside, in rounds 2 and 3, possibly even later. It would make no sense.
In today's NFL, draft picks are essential in managing the cap. Beyond Brady/Belichick, it's why the Pats have had sustained success...they have a consistent pipeline of young talent locked into cheap contracts thanks to their abundance of picks. You don't give those away.
I don't think Howard is worth trading up for in the first.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him slip to the 2nd. His motivation has been questioned, including by himself, and he may likely prove to be something of niche player. I.e, mainly a receiver.
I see TE's in this draft who are mid or late round prospects . . . .
that have intriguing abilities to the extent that they might go much higher in other years without flashy receivers such as Howard and Njoku at the top.
trading down! What if one of the QBs drops to 23 and Cleveland calls looking to trade up from the second round because they did not grab a QB with either of their two 1st round picks? I would love to trade down for their two second round picks and maybe a fourth rounder. I'm no expert and there is a long way to go in the evaluation of these players, but it seems at this point to be a draft where the difference between the talent at #23 and #55 is not significantly different. More picks for me!
In comment 13357856 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
trading down! What if one of the QBs drops to 23 and Cleveland calls looking to trade up from the second round because they did not grab a QB with either of their two 1st round picks? I would love to trade down for their two second round picks and maybe a fourth rounder.
The Giants wouldn't get Cleveland's two second round picks in return for the 23rd overall. Not even close. trade value chart - ( New Window )
It turns out you don't get a lot in return for the 23rd overall pick based on the trade value chart. There's a huge difference between trading down from a top twelve pick than from a pick in the twenties. Even if you consider that a team will give up extra in pursuit of a QB, we're not looking at a huge haul. A better example than Nomad Crow's Browns trade would be a trade down with Chicago (who may be in the market for a QB) and a favorable trade with Chicago would mean giving up the 23rd overall pick for the 36th and 67th overall picks. That trade still leaves the Giants 35 points short according to the chart (the equivalent of what will be their 4th round pick), but perhaps the Bears wouldn't quibble with a QB at stake. Either way, it's not a trade that would make me happy.
Teams don't trade down like New England because it takes two to tango and because New England is not lacking in impact players they can afford to take less to trade down.
As to the question of if we should trade up for Howard, it is still early in the draft process. At this point, Damontre Moore was a Top 5 pick. If we get to the point where Howard is clearly the best player on the board and there are teams ahead of us who could take him (or trade up for him) you trade up.
is deep enough in the draft there will be one of the TE available at 23 if one of the TE they like goes and they want to move up a couple of spots to get thier man fine id be down with that but there still should be a TE worth the pick at 23 without a move up,could even get an OL or DE at 23 and trade up in round 2 for a TE
they do need a TE that can push the defence and that isnt donnell or tye,adams has some potential but he isnt the witten/reed type TE that they need he looks to be the 2nd TE which is still needed and was only a late round pick so has value and room to improve
they need an OT but even if they get an OT in round 1 they would prob be looking at RT type and still be relying on flowers to stay at LT so reiff or whitworth maybe a better option FA than the draft anyway
they need a DE and this need could escalate if they dont get jpp back,if they dont resign him DE possibly becomes the #1 need. they also need to bring back hankins to prevent a big hole at DT too (need to pick a DL/DT at some point in this draft regardless too),they also need to resign leon hall to man the 3rd safety role possibly need a mid round CB so the likes of trevin wade dont need to see the field on anything but ST plays also
they need another OG to replace jerry,they need a big outside WR ,cruz is declining and shepard is more suited to the slot they dont have the 6'4+ 200lb+ WR they need to man the outside opposite beckham and open up things in the redzone for the corner or back shoulder fade eli used to throw to plax with such lethality
they have stated they want another QB to develop and backup manning so that will be a mid round pick spoken for (3rd or 4th round?)
thats alot of needs and any moves up leaves something else not addressed but reese's drafts especially the last one was far better they need to find the value they got last year but they also need to fill the voids on the roster if they want to give eli another chance to win the big game again before he retires
2-3 spot....give up a 4th or 5th. yes. if we are taking about giving up a 2nd or 3rd, then no. again, though, this is all subject to the professionals doing all the due dillagence.
I'd love to get a seam buster, and if he were a legit blocking TE that could take this O up a notch
The Pats also have like 20 players on their draft board, supposedly.
There are a number of interesting mid and late round TE prospects. And we have yet to learn if they'll attempt to address this in FA.
My only concern is that Reese and company might believe they've got it covered. I like Adams' physical ability, but we've yet to learn if that translates into a reliable NFL TE. Tye is Tye. Donnell, hopefully, is gone. And the other guys are yet to do much at all. Need help, but I'm not sure Reese sees it that way.
picks the draft is deep at the TE position I really hope
we get one in the first 3 rounds we need a playmaker with
size and strength . Hopefully Adams develops and don't
want to see Tye or Donnell on Sunday
The Pats have AVERAGED 9.2 draft picks per draft over the last 10 years. But there's a lot more too it than just a lot of draft picks. That's just one part of a comprehensive and closely integrated SYSTEM.
So, no, I would not trade up for him.
The next Marino?
The next Rice?
The next Jim Brown?
"Hell NO! We have lots of holes and we can't afford to give up any picks!"
-Most BBI Posters
I'm not saying that I would trade up for Howard. But if the Giants were convinced that OJ was a difference maker, then why not?
Check the NFL Draft picks from 5 years ago or more. How many picks from rounds 3 - 7 were even average NFL players? How many of them played for 3 or more years? How many of them do you even remember?
No freaking way I want to go into next season with another project at TE. I think he does have promise and belongs as backup, but no way as a starter right now. TE is too big a weapon in the NFL today for the Giants to continue to go that route.
This i agree with, Rob. I wouldn't be thrilled if they traded a batch of picks.
What if they did what atl did for Julio Jones? My god bbi would melt.
we need a few pieces - a LT, a big WR and a TE. Get those 3 pieces however you can.
Robbie, this is my thinking also.
If Giants scouts are wowed by an offensive skill position player, be it TE/WR/RB, yes I trade up.
I would do this even with my hopes for substantial development of Shepherd, Tye, Adams and Perkins.
we need a few pieces - a LT, a big WR and a TE. Get those 3 pieces however you can.
We need more than just a few pieces.
Both of our OTs are suspect, and our depth all along the offensive line is very weak.
We need a bona fide #2 WR to play opposite OBJ (and in concert with SS in the slot).
We need a bruising RB to compliment Perkins and Vereen and bring back the "Earth, Wind, and Fire" dynamic.
We need a TE that can block as well as stretch the seam.
We may need another DE who can rush the passer, and a DT who can get penetration.
We could use an OLB with speed, and we could also use more quality depth in the secondary.
Trading up for a OLT would also be a different story, but I think the same conclusion. We need to get a couple of these offensive players in FA, the one surefire pick up an OLT.
Maybe NE, who consistently shows what can be done with a real coaching staff.
But I suspect we will continue to have the Giants coaching staff, a definition of run of the mill mediocrity.
In today's NFL, draft picks are essential in managing the cap. Beyond Brady/Belichick, it's why the Pats have had sustained success...they have a consistent pipeline of young talent locked into cheap contracts thanks to their abundance of picks. You don't give those away.
trade value chart - ( New Window )
They've made it clear they won't get rid of JT unless it helps them rebuild. Well this does it.
As to the question of if we should trade up for Howard, it is still early in the draft process. At this point, Damontre Moore was a Top 5 pick. If we get to the point where Howard is clearly the best player on the board and there are teams ahead of us who could take him (or trade up for him) you trade up.
they do need a TE that can push the defence and that isnt donnell or tye,adams has some potential but he isnt the witten/reed type TE that they need he looks to be the 2nd TE which is still needed and was only a late round pick so has value and room to improve
they need an OT but even if they get an OT in round 1 they would prob be looking at RT type and still be relying on flowers to stay at LT so reiff or whitworth maybe a better option FA than the draft anyway
they need a DE and this need could escalate if they dont get jpp back,if they dont resign him DE possibly becomes the #1 need. they also need to bring back hankins to prevent a big hole at DT too (need to pick a DL/DT at some point in this draft regardless too),they also need to resign leon hall to man the 3rd safety role possibly need a mid round CB so the likes of trevin wade dont need to see the field on anything but ST plays also
they need another OG to replace jerry,they need a big outside WR ,cruz is declining and shepard is more suited to the slot they dont have the 6'4+ 200lb+ WR they need to man the outside opposite beckham and open up things in the redzone for the corner or back shoulder fade eli used to throw to plax with such lethality
they have stated they want another QB to develop and backup manning so that will be a mid round pick spoken for (3rd or 4th round?)
thats alot of needs and any moves up leaves something else not addressed but reese's drafts especially the last one was far better they need to find the value they got last year but they also need to fill the voids on the roster if they want to give eli another chance to win the big game again before he retires