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NFT: Knicks Chat: Is Hornacek in over his head?

DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 10:57 am
- With all of the Phil/Melo and Dolan/Oakley stuff Hornacek's team has almost been lost in the shuffle. Hornacek had such an issue coaching defense in Phoenix he had to bring in Longabardi. The team may be tuning him out. His explosion post game is either going to be a turning point or the beginning of the end. With Phil having total control and seemingly not leaving he may feel comfortable dumping Hornacek (yeah, it would be "so Knicks'. The defense wasn't bad, it was embarrassing.

-Raptors reportedly very interested in Serge Ibaka (seems like a good fit)

-Larry Sanders (unless his agent is lying) will be returning to the NBA post all-star break (already 1 team has made an offer once he is "ready")

-Lala reportedly wants to stay in NY (not even going to LAC)


-The Heat have now won an astounding 13 straight games. They were 11-30, now 24-30 and yet you have to wonder if that's really such a good thing for them. 0% chance at a title, will likely have to give significant money to soon to be 30 year old James Johnson having a breakout season (he's the type of guy you could see the Knicks offering a huge silly deal to)

-Dedmon 17/17 and 2, wanted the Knicks to look at him, Typical Spurs addition

-Ingram (coming off a nice run of games) with a stinker, 1-3 2 points, 2 boards

-Russell 14, 3 and 5

-Maker 17 minutes 7 points, 6 boards, 1 assist

-Giannis 41, 8 boards, 6 assists,, 2 steals, 3 blocks wow

-Brogdon, 18, 2 and 3

-Draymond,,, unreal 4 points, 12 boards, 10 assists, 10 steals, 5 blocks... WOW.

-Davis 42 and 13

-Holiday 25 points, 12 assists , 6 boards, 5 steals (did have 9 turnovers)

-Wiggins 29 points, 4 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals

-Towns 36 and 8, monster

-Wall 26 and 14

-THjr 28 and 4

-Booker 27, 5 and 4
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my one worry if they decide to keep melo  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2017 12:03 pm : link
because hell they are tanking anyway, is that he wont let the young draft pick that comes in and kp and willy be the top guys on the team..

this would be the knicks future and melo would need to take a step back and let the young guys sink or swim and i dont think he would do that
HEAT fan. I'd rather Win than Lose. No matter What.  
10to13td : 2/11/2017 12:07 pm : link
Bosh contract will be coming off the Books Soon enough. I did NOT see this Winning Streak Coming......Who Did. But I am enjoying it.
I can't wrap my head around  
Big Rick in FL : 2/11/2017 12:10 pm : link
Why Melo would want to play for this shit show. Outside of the Nets the Knicks are the biggest joke in the league. Why not waive your HTC and go play basically anywhere else. That's so weird to me.
Future knick  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 12:17 pm : link
Malik monk playing at 1.
RE: HEAT fan. I'd rather Win than Lose. No matter What.  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13357402 10to13td said:
Quote:
Bosh contract will be coming off the Books Soon enough. I did NOT see this Winning Streak Coming......Who Did. But I am enjoying it.


Miami can realistically own the longest win streak of the season.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 12:19 pm : link
not that I disagree that

1. Hornacek is in a shitty spot

or

2. He'd likely be better off with a young team he can mold

BUT

odds are he's going to have the same basic locker room next year.

If Melo/Noah/Lee are the leaders of a shitty locker room/on court defensive effort in 2017, why is that going to change next season?
RE: Again  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13357415 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not that I disagree that

1. Hornacek is in a shitty spot

or

2. He'd likely be better off with a young team he can mold

BUT

odds are he's going to have the same basic locker room next year.

If Melo/Noah/Lee are the leaders of a shitty locker room/on court defensive effort in 2017, why is that going to change next season?


no one expects it to unless the first round pick comes in like a superstar right away which obviously wont happen..

another bad season another high pick with melo hopefully going along his merry way
RE: HEAT fan. I'd rather Win than Lose. No matter What.  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13357402 10to13td said:
Quote:
Bosh contract will be coming off the Books Soon enough. I did NOT see this Winning Streak Coming......Who Did. But I am enjoying it.


i get it its fun to see a team get hot and iw ould be having fun to..

but for the future of the heat it would have been better to lose, no one is beating the cavs or warriors, and you want to stockpile picks so when lebron starts to slow down your team has a bunch of young homegrown guys...

in the new cba no max guy is leaving their team, no matter how much of a genius you think riley is
I don't think it's bad at all that they are winning  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 12:30 pm : link
But I don't think this win streak should prevent Miami from trading players if they have to. If anything these guys have more value now, maybe can pull of something crazy like Whiteside for a Nets pick
RE: RE: Again  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13357417 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13357415 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


not that I disagree that

1. Hornacek is in a shitty spot

or

2. He'd likely be better off with a young team he can mold

BUT

odds are he's going to have the same basic locker room next year.

If Melo/Noah/Lee are the leaders of a shitty locker room/on court defensive effort in 2017, why is that going to change next season?



no one expects it to unless the first round pick comes in like a superstar right away which obviously wont happen..

another bad season another high pick with melo hopefully going along his merry way


nygiants,
Not talking wins and losses, I'm talking defensive effort/Hornacek having a team that listens to him.
Miami can attract free agents  
bceagle05 : 2/11/2017 12:35 pm : link
so high draft picks aren't as crucial to them. Knicks can't attract free agents, so they need as high a draft pick as they can get.
Curious whether Heat fans link the win streak  
Deej : 2/11/2017 12:36 pm : link
to Winslow not playing 30 minutes a night. Though the streak didnt start for a few weeks post Winslow injury.
I think the Knicks are done with Melo.  
bceagle05 : 2/11/2017 12:37 pm : link
If he's stubborn about the no-trade, Phil will continue to make his life miserable. You think Melo wants another two years of the shit that's been going on this month? If he does than he cares nothing about winning.
And Dolan said yesterday  
bceagle05 : 2/11/2017 12:38 pm : link
that Phil's going nowhere - so Melo's not outlasting him either.
Give me holiday this offseason  
Tuckrule : 2/11/2017 12:54 pm : link
Let rose go anywhere maybe his Momas house
RE: Horny may be over his head  
HomerJones45 : 2/11/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13357347 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
But he's also saddled with "star" players that seemingly don't give a shit about coaching and are just going to do what they want. Melo will never be a leader and refuses to play defense or team basketball. Rose is a headcase that is only looking out for his next contract. Even Lee has rumbled in the media. I believe that Noah was brought here for his leadership and presence and that has been a failure. And then he has to deal with a childish acting Phil making things worse.

Hornacek never had a chance with the Knicks.
Pretty much the case. The Carmelo trade was a disaster- the Nuggets couldn't wait to get rid of him-he doesn't play defense or rebound and he's not going to-ever and it doesn't matter who is the coach. If your "star" doesn't give a shit, no one else will either. Until he's gone, the Knicks are going nowhere.
RE: I'm ok with that group coming back, except Melo.  
HomerJones45 : 2/11/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13357365 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
But we can't just give him away. Otherwise, saying goodbye to Rose and Jennings and adding a good two-way prospect in the top 10 of the draft will do wonders - especially if it's a PG.
Bite the bullet and give him away-it's addition by subtraction.
RE: Give me holiday this offseason  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13357455 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Let rose go anywhere maybe his Momas house


Holiday still pretty young. He's fit well with almost any of the draft picks. He can guard 2s.
They took a chance on vets  
Big Rick in FL : 2/11/2017 1:20 pm : link
& "stars" it's been a disaster. They need to do whatever possible to completely blow it up. Trade Melo & Rose for young players/picks. Try to get picks from contenders for Jennings/Lee/O'Quinn. Start building around Porzingis, Hernangomez and our 2017 1st round pick.
Hornacek was so pissed post game I thought we'd see tears  
DCOrange : 2/11/2017 1:24 pm : link
It is obvious Melo and Rose don't give a shit what Hornacek says.
Apparently Wilson Chandler left the game  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 1:43 pm : link
at halftime to buy sneakers...
Link - ( New Window )
RE: They're a complete disaster  
Svengali : 2/11/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13357358 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And have been since Phil got here. I don't think the franchise is any it better now than the day he signed on. Sprinkle in the Oakley horseshit now and it somehow gets worse with each passing game. The next 10-13 games look like they'll be fortunate to win 2/3 games. Does Phil really want to bring on a third new coach in 3 years? I know it's NY, but everyone- players and coaches, see the circus going on here. Who wants to be apart of this shit show?


Maybe I'm an optimist but I think were far better off today then before Phil got here, zinger and Wille are good young players. We have draft picks. Most want Melo gone but don't like the way Phil's doing it. I love Oakley but he's a mess right now and you can tell when you look at the extended film of the incident. You get rid of Melo for a bag of basketballs and let Rose walk and you have a good team next year with hopefully better attitudes. They have been a shit show forever but now seemingly a shit show with a direction. Just my opinion.
Few things  
TyreeHelmet : 2/11/2017 2:29 pm : link
A big part of being a successful head coach in the NBA is getting your players to play hard- particularly on defense. Schemes are definitely needed, but bringing it every night and showing effort on defense falls upon the Head Coach duties. Hornacek has failed at that. Knicks should zero pride on defense.

The end of the last night's game was a perfect microcosm of what Melo's game is currently. Two defensive possessions he was beat badly by Chandler on an in-bounds play and fell asleep on a backdoor court that made Hornacek irate. He sunk 2 difficult 3s on the offensive possessions around those defensive lapses. I'm a big fan of Melo and he's still brilliant offensively, but he really struggles staying with his man on the perimeter and the defensive effort isn't there. He needs to be playing the 4 as much as possible to help him on D.

I know a lot of people are saying to wait to the offseason to trade Carmelo in the hopes of a better return. I don't see that happening and would move him to the Clippers or Cavs for whatever you can get. It's time to separate and I would think he would play really well for either of those teams. It sucks getting nothing in return for him, but I'd want to avoid being stuck with him for the next 2 seasons.

Let's also pump the breaks on Hernangomez. He's shown nice offensive low post moves and a good touch with ball, but he's horrendous on defense. He makes Melo look like Tony Allen. I'm all for building around young players, but I'm not sure you can construct a good defense starting Willy and KP. I'd look to add a Taj Gibson type player at the 4 to play alongside KP at the 5. As for KP, his struggles are something to worry about it. His confidence looks shot, his offensive decision making hasn't gotten better and he's developed some awful defensive habits. He still has a world of potential but his lack of growth is disappointing.

Lastly, oh man can Jokic play! Awesome offensive talent. How the hell did that guy last until the 2nd round. Very impressive player.
hornacek held marathom practice today  
nygiants16 : 2/11/2017 2:47 pm : link
normally 90 minutes, held practice for 2 and a half hours
More like caught in the middle.  
Giant John : 2/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
For what he is making I wouldn't mind it too much.
Monk is having all types of problems  
dep026 : 2/11/2017 2:58 pm : link
shooting over height...

Again, those who are thnking he can be a number 1 guy maybe disappointed. Only being 6'3 is going to kill him in the NBA.
RE: Few things  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13357520 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
A big part of being a successful head coach in the NBA is getting your players to play hard- particularly on defense. Schemes are definitely needed, but bringing it every night and showing effort on defense falls upon the Head Coach duties. Hornacek has failed at that. Knicks should zero pride on defense.

The end of the last night's game was a perfect microcosm of what Melo's game is currently. Two defensive possessions he was beat badly by Chandler on an in-bounds play and fell asleep on a backdoor court that made Hornacek irate. He sunk 2 difficult 3s on the offensive possessions around those defensive lapses. I'm a big fan of Melo and he's still brilliant offensively, but he really struggles staying with his man on the perimeter and the defensive effort isn't there. He needs to be playing the 4 as much as possible to help him on D.

I know a lot of people are saying to wait to the offseason to trade Carmelo in the hopes of a better return. I don't see that happening and would move him to the Clippers or Cavs for whatever you can get. It's time to separate and I would think he would play really well for either of those teams. It sucks getting nothing in return for him, but I'd want to avoid being stuck with him for the next 2 seasons.

Let's also pump the breaks on Hernangomez. He's shown nice offensive low post moves and a good touch with ball, but he's horrendous on defense. He makes Melo look like Tony Allen. I'm all for building around young players, but I'm not sure you can construct a good defense starting Willy and KP. I'd look to add a Taj Gibson type player at the 4 to play alongside KP at the 5. As for KP, his struggles are something to worry about it. His confidence looks shot, his offensive decision making hasn't gotten better and he's developed some awful defensive habits. He still has a world of potential but his lack of growth is disappointing.

Lastly, oh man can Jokic play! Awesome offensive talent. How the hell did that guy last until the 2nd round. Very impressive player.


"Lack of growth"? There's been plenty of growth. How many sophomores have developed significantly more than him exactly? KAT? Who else? There's always going to be concerns...just like any player who has made it 2 years into the NBA at age 21.

As for Willy, he struggled against Jokic in limited minutes...just like KOQ and KP. Noah being out really hurts in the rare situation they played a big, skilled center. Jokic is arguably a top 5 center in the league. Willy has shown understanding of defensive rotations. He still needs to get stronger, but he moves well enough laterally to be a good rim protector. I'm much more concerned with KP than willy defensively, and even then my concern level isn't that high when we're talking about 21-22 year olds.
RE: Monk is having all types of problems  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13357531 dep026 said:
Quote:
shooting over height...

Again, those who are thnking he can be a number 1 guy maybe disappointed. Only being 6'3 is going to kill him in the NBA.


He's 100% going to have to be a #2/#3 scorer. And he's going to have to guard PGs. He's going to be fine if he's playing next to Simmons or Greek Freak. As much as I want him on the Knicks he probably wouldn't be a good fit.
Trade Melo for whatever you can get from CLE/LAC?  
Deej : 2/11/2017 3:06 pm : link
what their offering is negative value. Literally, they're offering contracts I wouldnt hand to UFAs. Trade Melo because you dont like his makeup... for JR and/or Shump? For Austin Rivers, a 4th guard making 8 figures and Jamal Crawford, who has a worse contract that Noah?

Bad idea.
Wow Josh Jackson's awareness is off the charts  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 3:45 pm : link
Flew in for a rebound and launched it cross court immediately for a hockey assist.

Averaging 20 points, 8 boards, 3 assists in last 6 games. Over 50% from 3.
Wake me up when they trade Carmelo  
ghost718 : 2/11/2017 3:47 pm : link
Ok Im starting to understand the Josh Jackson hype  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 3:49 pm : link
He's having a career game. Flying around on defense making plays.
we've got a serious shot at a top 5 pick  
Ash_3 : 2/11/2017 3:50 pm : link
if we can manage to stay bad. KP, Willy, and a top 5 pick (preferably a guard) from this draft would be the start of something.
Damn  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 3:56 pm : link
Jackson really is impressive
Jackson  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 3:59 pm : link
again. He's everywhere
Incredible  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 4:13 pm : link
No frank mason towards the end of the game. 31 points, 12 boards, 4 assists. 12/15, 2/4 from 3 and 5/7 FT

Really only thing lacking is his FTs, which is perplexing because he's been draining 3s and stepback jump shots. Self was playing him at center to protect the rim during the last few minutes. Could really use someone with this kind of defensive effort.
RE: Incredible  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13357574 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
No frank mason towards the end of the game. 31 points, 12 boards, 4 assists. 12/15, 2/4 from 3 and 5/7 FT

Really only thing lacking is his FTs, which is perplexing because he's been draining 3s and stepback jump shots. Self was playing him at center to protect the rim during the last few minutes. Could really use someone with this kind of defensive effort.


Rail thin and the shot is awkward but damn that was impressive. The shot (and FT shooting) are valid concerns (guards shouldn't be shooting 54% from the line) but it looked like his form was pretty normal. Kid could be a MONSTER
Bridges is the only top level wing player  
giantsfan44ab : 2/11/2017 4:22 pm : link
that's hit more 3s than Jackson so far in this draft (who is also oddly shooting 63% from the line).
Jabari  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2017 5:18 pm : link
is #TeamThon with me!

Etc and etc and etc and etc  
DennyInDenville : 2/11/2017 5:23 pm : link
-Dolan
Can we stop giving Phil credit for the team being in a better  
PhiPsi125 : 2/11/2017 7:18 pm : link
position because we finally have our draft picks? I'm tired of hearing it. I'm not giving him credit for something that requires zero effort or knowledge. Congrats on the KP pick and for Willy, I guess. The rest of his decisions were risky attempts to be "competitive" now and none of them have worked out.

He also likes to tout that he wants high BB IQ players yet hasn't seemed to any. Phil has been a disaster so far. Hopefully his magic eight ball gives him some new fresh ideas...because that's how I truly feel he is making his decisions.
Rumors are going around that Fab Melo has died  
Anakim : 2/11/2017 7:44 pm : link
.
Anyone one would be over their head in this situation.  
GiantsUA : 2/12/2017 10:14 am : link
Dysfunction junction.

And Fuck you too La La, get a real name like Jane or Samantha or something.
RE: Anyone one would be over their head in this situation.  
nygiants16 : 2/12/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13357916 GiantsUA said:
Quote:
Dysfunction junction.

And Fuck you too La La, get a real name like Jane or Samantha or something.


So if your wife said no i dont want to move when you were offered to move in your job, you would say fuck you we are moving?
First off, I would not marry someone named La La, thank you very much.  
GiantsUA : 2/12/2017 11:30 am : link
And second - yes, I would talk to my wife and consider her regarding the move.
RE: Can we stop giving Phil credit for the team being in a better  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13357655 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
position because we finally have our draft picks? I'm tired of hearing it. I'm not giving him credit for something that requires zero effort or knowledge.


I mean do what makes you happy, but apparently it does require effort and knowledge since nobody else sitting in that chair could do it.
That awkward moment when you're not sure if the poster  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2017 12:05 pm : link
knows "La La" is just a nickname.
RE: That awkward moment when you're not sure if the poster  
nygiants16 : 2/12/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13357992 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
knows "La La" is just a nickname.


yeah i am not sure..
Melo is toxic.  
CT Charlie : 2/12/2017 6:48 pm : link
He's a truly great shooter and apparently a good guy. But as a player he's an anti-star: he makes everyone around him worse.
Melo strutting like a peacock after the last make.  
GiantsUA : 2/12/2017 7:03 pm : link
Melo, enjoy it while you can because who knows the next time the Melo led Knicks beat a quality opponent.

Good win, let's get another one.
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