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NFT: Mets Talk

CMicks3110 : 2/12/2017 11:30 am
Big Season coming up

Pitchers and Catchers report Tomorrow:

Key Questions:

*Which Matt Harvey do we get? ;

*will deGrom, Matz, and Wheeler healthy;

*Wright/Duda - What is their health status and what will their production be;

*Can we be less dependent on the home run ball, we still have a very power centric lineup ;


* Flores, Reyes and Lagares all have the talent to be regulars, how do we mix them into the lineup on a regular basis? ;

*My big question Alderson noted that we have a lot of young players on the cusp, how do we transition the Nimmo's, Cecchini's, Rosarios, Smiths, Conforto of the world to replace some of our veteran regulars like Bruce, Duda, Cabrera, Granderson; Our AAA Lineup will be stacked especially if Conforto is optioned: C-Plawecki, 1B-Smith, 2B-Cecchini, SS-Rosario, 3B-Rivera, LF-Conforto, CF-Nimmo,Taijeron; That's 5 first rounders, and the top international free agent. In Las Vegas that should be a dominant offense. [/b]; As an aside to this, we need some pitching/reliever depth, how can we deal from this surplus either at the major league or minor league level to enhance our team. I can see a bunch of mid-season trades.
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Domo reportedly dropped 24 pounds  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 1:05 pm : link
The Mets plan to have Jose Reyes bat leadoff 3-4 days per week.
It could be more than that, of course, depending on how David Wright's (neck) health is. The Mets aren't sure yet who will bat leadoff for them on days when Reyes doesn't start. Reyes is slated to see time all over the infield and some in the outfield this spring as he prepares for a super utility role. He could be a sneaky value in fantasy drafts this spring as a guy who doesn't technically have a starting job but who is likely to wind up playing a lot.
Source: Anthony DiComo on TwitterFeb 17 - 12:53 PM
David Wright - 3B - Mets
David Wright (neck) is tentatively scheduled to play catch on Sunday.
It would be his first time throwing a baseball since last June. The Mets are bringing Wright along slowly this spring as he works his way back from a cervical discectomy and fusion surgery. His health status figures to be a daily topic of conversation throughout spring training.
Source: Anthony DiComo on TwitterFeb 17 - 12:51 PM
Jeurys Familia - R - Mets
Jeurys Familia is expected back in Mets camp on Saturday.
Familia is away from the club on Friday to tend to a personal matter. We're still waiting to hear about Familia's expected suspension for his domestic violence incident.
Source: Mike Puma on TwitterFeb 17 - 12:49 PM
With Rubin  
Metnut : 2/17/2017 1:07 pm : link
moving on, Matt Ehalt looks like a solid twitter follow. Bergan Record Mets beat writer and is working hard and posting lots of live updates from camp.
Mets top 31 prospects from BA  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 2:44 pm : link
Amed Rosario, SS
Dominic Smith, 1B
Justin Dunn, RHP
Desmond Lindsay, OF
Brandon Nimmo, OF
Gavin Cecchini, SS/2B
Robert Gsellman, RHP
Thomas Szapucki, LHP
Gabriel Ynoa, RHP
Tomas Nido, C
Marcos Molina, RHP
Anthony Kay, LHP
Peter Alonso, 1B
Merandy Gonzalez, RHP
Luis Guillorme, SS
Wuilmer Becerra, OF
Andres Gimenez, SS
Matt Reynolds, INF
P.J. Conlon, LHP
Luis Carpio, SS/2B
Patrick Mazeika, C/1B
Chris Flexen, RHP
Ricardo Cespedes, OF
T.J. Rivera, INF
Phillip Evans, INF
Corey Taylor, RHP
Ali Sanchez, C
Harol Gonzalez, RHP
Gregory Guerrero, SS
Colby Woodmansee, SS
David Thompson, 3B
RE: Mets top 31 prospects from BA  
pjcas18 : 2/17/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13364416 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Amed Rosario, SS
Dominic Smith, 1B
Justin Dunn, RHP
Desmond Lindsay, OF
Brandon Nimmo, OF
Gavin Cecchini, SS/2B
Robert Gsellman, RHP
Thomas Szapucki, LHP
Gabriel Ynoa, RHP
Tomas Nido, C
Marcos Molina, RHP
Anthony Kay, LHP
Peter Alonso, 1B
Merandy Gonzalez, RHP
Luis Guillorme, SS
Wuilmer Becerra, OF
Andres Gimenez, SS
Matt Reynolds, INF
P.J. Conlon, LHP
Luis Carpio, SS/2B
Patrick Mazeika, C/1B
Chris Flexen, RHP
Ricardo Cespedes, OF
T.J. Rivera, INF
Phillip Evans, INF
Corey Taylor, RHP
Ali Sanchez, C
Harol Gonzalez, RHP
Gregory Guerrero, SS
Colby Woodmansee, SS
David Thompson, 3B


#9 traded for 50 grand. How many major league baseball teams trade their #9 prospect for 50k? Or however much it turns out to be.

They  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 2:49 pm : link
are in order, sorry if that confused anyone, just the site I copied them from, the numbers for whatever the reason didnt copy
They had a 40 man roster crunch  
spike : 2/17/2017 2:54 pm : link
Who else would we drop?
Whats going to happen with Familia?  
spike : 2/17/2017 2:57 pm : link
Is he getting suspended or what?

Also, when are we getting a sweetheart trade deal with Baltimore? They keep getting our players
RE: They had a 40 man roster crunch  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13364427 spike said:
Quote:
Who else would we drop?


Guys on the bubble would be Edgin (though I think he's making the team), Gilmartin, Montero and Goeddel. Anyone else would be pretty shocking to me.
RE: They had a 40 man roster crunch  
pjcas18 : 2/17/2017 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13364427 spike said:
Quote:
Who else would we drop?


Matt Reynolds, they have a glut of middle infielders. Reynolds isn't lasting the season on the Mets roster.

Probably didn't need to protect Marcos Molina, doubt he would have lasted the season on anyone's major league roster with no innings above a ball and only 40 innings in Advanced A ball and coming off injury.

Probably didn't need to protect Becerra in rule V either.

and probably other moves they could have done too.

RE: RE: They had a 40 man roster crunch  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13364431 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13364427 spike said:


Quote:


Who else would we drop?



Matt Reynolds, they have a glut of middle infielders. Reynolds isn't lasting the season on the Mets roster.

Probably didn't need to protect Marcos Molina, doubt he would have lasted the season on anyone's major league roster with no innings above a ball and only 40 innings in Advanced A ball and coming off injury.

Probably didn't need to protect Becerra in rule V either.

and probably other moves they could have done too.


They won't drop Reynolds now. He's the best MLB ready defensive infielder they have. Rosario won't be called up early and Cecchini might not even be a SS.Guys like Rivera, Flores and even Reyes are all below average at SS. Reynolds will stick around for now.
The only player  
Metnut : 2/17/2017 3:05 pm : link
on the Mets i dislike more than Jay Bruce is Matt Reynolds. Defensive issues aside, Flores is a farrrrrrrrrr better option than this scrub.
RE: RE: RE: They had a 40 man roster crunch  
pjcas18 : 2/17/2017 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13364435 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13364431 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13364427 spike said:


Quote:


Who else would we drop?



Matt Reynolds, they have a glut of middle infielders. Reynolds isn't lasting the season on the Mets roster.

Probably didn't need to protect Marcos Molina, doubt he would have lasted the season on anyone's major league roster with no innings above a ball and only 40 innings in Advanced A ball and coming off injury.

Probably didn't need to protect Becerra in rule V either.

and probably other moves they could have done too.




They won't drop Reynolds now. He's the best MLB ready defensive infielder they have. Rosario won't be called up early and Cecchini might not even be a SS.Guys like Rivera, Flores and even Reyes are all below average at SS. Reynolds will stick around for now.


Either way they had options if they wanted to keep Ynoa and my point was the fact the Mets traded the #9 prospect for cash.

and if they wanted to keep him it could have been painlessly done.
Oh  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
I totally agree PJ. I'm talking about going forward. Dropping Ynoa over some of these other guys was idiotic if you ask me.
RE: RE: What's with all this talk of a need for a catcher  
Shecky : 2/17/2017 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13364229 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13364225 Shecky said:


Quote:


When a future hall of gamer is already on the 40 ;)



Big Patrick Mazeika fan?:)

C is another very thin position in the organization. Hopefully it's addressed.


Thin? Who cares when you're so TOP HEAVY!!! Lol
Trading Ynoa was definitely all about the 40  
ZGiants98 : 2/17/2017 3:43 pm : link
They certainly didn't trade him for 50k. They probably had 3-5 guys on the backend of the bubble (none might make the team still) and Ynoa was one of them. Baltimore called us up and liked him. Peace. Maybe they return the favor some day.
RE: Trading Ynoa was definitely all about the 40  
spike : 2/17/2017 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13364492 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
They certainly didn't trade him for 50k. They probably had 3-5 guys on the backend of the bubble (none might make the team still) and Ynoa was one of them. Baltimore called us up and liked him. Peace. Maybe they return the favor some day.


Looking forward to that favor! We've made quite a few transactions with Balt
RE: RE: Trading Ynoa was definitely all about the 40  
ZGiants98 : 2/17/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13364497 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 13364492 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


They certainly didn't trade him for 50k. They probably had 3-5 guys on the backend of the bubble (none might make the team still) and Ynoa was one of them. Baltimore called us up and liked him. Peace. Maybe they return the favor some day.



Looking forward to that favor! We've made quite a few transactions with Balt


Eric O 'Flaherty didn't work out but we essentially got him for free at a deadline or just a little cash. That's the kind of good will kind of moves I think Vick g up a Ynoa might create down the line. Nothing great, but I think there are situations where teams just say "who cares, why not?"
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 3:54 pm : link
It's weird how often people parrot defense up the middle and yet the 0 bat + defense SS's who start for good teams basically don't exist anymore. Throw in the fact that Guillorme has below average speed and he's WAY too high. I'm not a fan of this list.
Dominic  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 4:47 pm : link
Smith says he was up to 258 pounds last season so this idea the experts were wrong about his conditioning... apparently he's now closer to 230.
RE: .  
Jay on the Island : 2/17/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13364508 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
It's weird how often people parrot defense up the middle and yet the 0 bat + defense SS's who start for good teams basically don't exist anymore. Throw in the fact that Guillorme has below average speed and he's WAY too high. I'm not a fan of this list.

I personally can't remember there ever being as much talent at the shortstop position as there currently is. The days of the all-glove SS's are nearly gone unless they are a generational defensive player like Andrelton Simmons.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13364574 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13364508 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


It's weird how often people parrot defense up the middle and yet the 0 bat + defense SS's who start for good teams basically don't exist anymore. Throw in the fact that Guillorme has below average speed and he's WAY too high. I'm not a fan of this list.


I personally can't remember there ever being as much talent at the shortstop position as there currently is. The days of the all-glove SS's are nearly gone unless they are a generational defensive player like Andrelton Simmons.


If Simmons could hit he'd be a HOFer. The position is LOADED with 2 way players now. Unlike catcher where it's insanely shallow.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Jay on the Island : 2/17/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13364575 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13364574 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 13364508 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


If Simmons could hit he'd be a HOFer. The position is LOADED with 2 way players now. Unlike catcher where it's insanely shallow.

If Simmons could hit he would either be in Atlanta or they would have gotten a monster package for him. The lack of talent at catcher across the league is alarming. The Braves recently acquired former top 10 pick Alex Jackson who was a catcher in HS but moved to the outfield because the Mariners thought that was the quickest way to get his bat to the majors. After the acquisition Atlanta moved him back to catcher. Now the Braves are hoping that he can stick there defensively where it would take a lot of pressure off of his bat. Now in the unlikely event that he does live up to his potential at the plate and can be at least serviceable behind it then the Braves would have a rare asset.

.  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 5:24 pm : link
Reyes OF time expected to only be in case of an "emergency"
How many  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2017 5:44 pm : link
I mean, go back 10-15 years and there was the whole previous generation of very good 2-way SS - Vizquel, Arod, Jeter, Nomar, Rollins, Tejada, Renteria, Reyes etc. that every team would prefer and then there's always a group of teams that don't have 1 of those guys and have play flawed players in 1 way or another. A handful of those flawed players were probably all glove guys no different than Iglesias now or Ordonez 20 years ago. A handful probably time shares or aging starters turned role players like Cabrera, etc.

Point being guys with exceptional skills play and at SS I think an exceptional defensive SS still has value, there are just never very many of them at 1 time and sometimes they happen to be multi-skilled. Crawford, Simmons, Russell and Lindor are terrific defensive players who would play even if they didn't hit at all - they just happen to do both to varying degrees.
previous subject got cut off  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2017 5:45 pm : link
should say "how many great defensive SS are there ever at 1 time".
RE: Dominic  
Shecky : 2/17/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13364559 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Smith says he was up to 258 pounds last season so this idea the experts were wrong about his conditioning... apparently he's now closer to 230.


The issue was that he was "lazy" and had no work ethic.
RE: How many  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2017 8:29 pm : link
In comment 13364603 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I mean, go back 10-15 years and there was the whole previous generation of very good 2-way SS - Vizquel, Arod, Jeter, Nomar, Rollins, Tejada, Renteria, Reyes etc. that every team would prefer and then there's always a group of teams that don't have 1 of those guys and have play flawed players in 1 way or another. A handful of those flawed players were probably all glove guys no different than Iglesias now or Ordonez 20 years ago. A handful probably time shares or aging starters turned role players like Cabrera, etc.

Point being guys with exceptional skills play and at SS I think an exceptional defensive SS still has value, there are just never very many of them at 1 time and sometimes they happen to be multi-skilled. Crawford, Simmons, Russell and Lindor are terrific defensive players who would play even if they didn't hit at all - they just happen to do both to varying degrees.


Who are the current guys without power or speed that you would want starting at ss for the Mets?
Adeiny Hechavaria, Alicedes Escobar and possibly Jose Iglesias  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2017 10:20 pm : link
I haven't watched Iglesias as much as the other 2 so I could be wrong on that one, but the fact that he's hit .300 before and seems to not K all that much makes me think he's not a total automatic out. Escobar has obviously been a good leadoff hitter so maybe he doesn't count, but last year he was the 22nd best SS by fwar and his career wRC is 10 points lower than Juan Lagares.
RE: Adeiny Hechavaria, Alicedes Escobar and possibly Jose Iglesias  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 9:23 am : link
In comment 13364729 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I haven't watched Iglesias as much as the other 2 so I could be wrong on that one, but the fact that he's hit .300 before and seems to not K all that much makes me think he's not a total automatic out. Escobar has obviously been a good leadoff hitter so maybe he doesn't count, but last year he was the 22nd best SS by fwar and his career wRC is 10 points lower than Juan Lagares.


Alcides Escobar? He's been worth 1.8 fWAR the past 2 seasons... COMBINED. He's been worth 2 fWAR or more twice in his career. You would want him as the Mets starting SS? .4 fWAR in 2016 aka the second worst SS in baseball... tied with... Hechavarria... am I reading your quote wrong? The only SS worse in 2016 than those 2 was a now retired Alexei Ramirez... the other guy you mentioned (Jose Iglesias) was worth 2.1 fWAR 17/23 qualified SS. Outside of Iglesias who still has a shot to get better the other are DRAINS on their team not assets. Hechevarria had a very nice 2015 (3.1 fWAR)... and despite that in 4 MLB seasons he's been worth 1.9 fWAR... yes... he's been a NEGATIVE value player the other 3 seasons.
Familia  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 9:25 am : link
meeting with the league again today
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 9:35 am : link
According to Newsday’s Marc Carig, Smith has completely transformed his diet after gaining 65 pounds from the moment he was drafted in 2013 to the final day of the 2015 season. He’s gone from relying on fast food to waking up early every day to prepare his own, healthier meals.

“I was kind of, a little bit uncomfortable toward the end of the year,” Smith said. “Very tired, and my legs hurt a little bit. I wanted to change my regimen, eat healthier, and not just go on a diet but just change my lifestyle, just have a clean, healthy lifestyle.”
Reyes  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 9:38 am : link
expected to start 4+
“I don’t know what I’m going to do [at leadoff] if he’s not in there,” Collins said. “But I do want to get him in that leadoff spot as much as we can.”

RE: .  
Metnut : 2/18/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13364820 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
According to Newsday’s Marc Carig, Smith has completely transformed his diet after gaining 65 pounds from the moment he was drafted in 2013 to the final day of the 2015 season. He’s gone from relying on fast food to waking up early every day to prepare his own, healthier meals.

“I was kind of, a little bit uncomfortable toward the end of the year,” Smith said. “Very tired, and my legs hurt a little bit. I wanted to change my regimen, eat healthier, and not just go on a diet but just change my lifestyle, just have a clean, healthy lifestyle.”


This is what we've been waiting for from him. Can't wait to see what kind of seasons him and Rosario put together.
Reyes will be an interesting case next off season  
bhill410 : 2/18/2017 9:42 am : link
Assuming he replicates his 2016. He will likely be able to get more money elsewhere but I kind of think he is at a point where he doesn't want to play anywhere else. Obviously the Yankees may fit that mold if they still need a 3b but based on what we heard last season seems like it's NYC or bust for him at this point in his career.
Assuming  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 9:51 am : link
A good season I think both sides come to an agreement. Reyes seemingly would like to stay local. Obviously he will want a fair deal and not 500k
RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/18/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13364820 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
According to Newsday’s Marc Carig, Smith has completely transformed his diet after gaining 65 pounds from the moment he was drafted in 2013 to the final day of the 2015 season. He’s gone from relying on fast food to waking up early every day to prepare his own, healthier meals.

“I was kind of, a little bit uncomfortable toward the end of the year,” Smith said. “Very tired, and my legs hurt a little bit. I wanted to change my regimen, eat healthier, and not just go on a diet but just change my lifestyle, just have a clean, healthy lifestyle.”


Good to hear.

Because he's a draft pick, I wonder if the team would cover a personal chef/nutritionist. If he's doing it himself, it can be really, really hard to keep up. They should probably do this.
DMM  
Jay on the Island : 2/18/2017 10:39 am : link
What are your thoughts on Cubs 3B prospect Jeimer Candelario? He is obviously blocked by Bryant and Rizzo so they Cubs may look to deal him to address other needs.
most  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 10:46 am : link
seem to think Candelario is more of a tweener type thanks to his lack of athleticism. Good utility player is likely his upside but he could be the Cubs Wilmer Flores
RE: RE: Adeiny Hechavaria, Alicedes Escobar and possibly Jose Iglesias  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2017 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13364810 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13364729 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


I haven't watched Iglesias as much as the other 2 so I could be wrong on that one, but the fact that he's hit .300 before and seems to not K all that much makes me think he's not a total automatic out. Escobar has obviously been a good leadoff hitter so maybe he doesn't count, but last year he was the 22nd best SS by fwar and his career wRC is 10 points lower than Juan Lagares.



Alcides Escobar? He's been worth 1.8 fWAR the past 2 seasons... COMBINED. He's been worth 2 fWAR or more twice in his career. You would want him as the Mets starting SS? .4 fWAR in 2016 aka the second worst SS in baseball... tied with... Hechavarria... am I reading your quote wrong? The only SS worse in 2016 than those 2 was a now retired Alexei Ramirez... the other guy you mentioned (Jose Iglesias) was worth 2.1 fWAR 17/23 qualified SS. Outside of Iglesias who still has a shot to get better the other are DRAINS on their team not assets. Hechevarria had a very nice 2015 (3.1 fWAR)... and despite that in 4 MLB seasons he's been worth 1.9 fWAR... yes... he's been a NEGATIVE value player the other 3 seasons.


Didn't this topic start with you saying that all defense and no bat SS don't exist anymore? Doesn't this basically prove that they do exist? I wasn't looking to argue that fact if you re-read my first post you replied to, my entire point was that there are only so many good defensive SS at any given time and it just so happens that right now many of them are good hitters too. Obviously anyone would love to have Russell, Lindor, Crawford, etc., but the teams lucky enough to have guys like that will always be the minority. The majority of the starters in the entire league are going to have some flaws.

And yes, I would have been happy to have any of those 3 guys as our starting at SS during those years between Reyes and Cabrera. I'd still probably take Escobar over Cabrera if we could make that swap right now (and I like Cabrera a lot, including his defense). At shortstop I think excellent defense game in and game out is still more important than the extra 15 homers.
Alcides  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:27 pm : link
Escobar was worth -6 DRS in 2016. I really think you are romanticizing defense first SS in theory more than practice. He was 18/24 in DRS at SS. He sucks, inside the park homer vs. the Mets or not. For comparisons sake Crawford +19, Lindor +17. I would not even think of trading Cabrera for Escobar. He has zero appeal.
Link - ( New Window )
Escobar  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:33 pm : link
-6 DRS 18/24
Overall defense 13/24
UZR 13/24


Cabrera
-7 DRS
18/24 overall defense
18/24 UZR

Last 3 seasons Escobar -11 DRS (good for 16/23, Cabrera admittedly a poor fielder 21/23)

Last 3 seasons Cabrera 10/23 fWAR, Escobar 18/23
Last 3 seasons Cabrera 9/38 wRC+, Escobar 36/38
Hechvarria  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:35 pm : link
is 26th in fWAR at SS over that time. These are bad MLB SS's.

Final  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:40 pm : link
note on these guys

Escobar hit 19 homers with 176 steals in 647 minor league games

Luis Guillorme?

He has 1 career home run, 34 steals (52 attempts) over 346 games

and Escobar rounded into one of the worst offensive players in baseball.
This  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:41 pm : link
is Guillorme 1.0
Link - ( New Window )
Cespedes  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:46 pm : link
will only play home games during ST per Collins
Escobar won a gold glove a couple years ago  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2017 6:49 pm : link
Iglesias was a finalist last year, Hechavarria's been a finalist before and we play the Marlins enough to know he's really good. It's hard to appreciate how good or bad any player is defensively without watching them every day and I don't think any of the defensive metrics are a reliable substitute yet. Seen far too many inconsistencies in the last few years since they've become more of a thing. I thought Cabrera was more than solid last year but in no way would I call him a GG contender. I think it's fair to say the other 3 are closer.
RE: This  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2017 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13365047 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is Guillorme 1.0 Link - ( New Window )


None of my posts were trying to make a point about Guillorme (or Tovar). The greatest defensive SS ever wouldn't hold a starting spot in the majors if he hit under .200.
RE: Escobar won a gold glove a couple years ago  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:54 pm : link
In comment 13365052 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Iglesias was a finalist last year, Hechavarria's been a finalist before and we play the Marlins enough to know he's really good. It's hard to appreciate how good or bad any player is defensively without watching them every day and I don't think any of the defensive metrics are a reliable substitute yet. Seen far too many inconsistencies in the last few years since they've become more of a thing. I thought Cabrera was more than solid last year but in no way would I call him a GG contender. I think it's fair to say the other 3 are closer.


Iglesias aside (because he actually has shown some ability to hit previously) the other 2 are AWFUL offensive players. You want to suddenly discount fWAR? I thought the argument was defensive metrics overrated guys like Zobrist? Derek Jeter and Palmeiro won GG's. They don't mean a whole lot and surely don't make up for an utter lack of hitting ability. The Mets wouldn't trade Cabrera for Escobar or Hechavarria... trust me.
RE: RE: This  
DanMetroMan : 2/18/2017 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13365053 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13365047 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is Guillorme 1.0 Link - ( New Window )
Guillorme could hit .240 but without power or speed his glove wouldn't land him a starting gig. You need SOME secondary skills. Speed for one. I'd love an upgrade defensively but not a blackhole offensively.



None of my posts were trying to make a point about Guillorme (or Tovar). The greatest defensive SS ever wouldn't hold a starting spot in the majors if he hit under .200.
RE: RE: Escobar won a gold glove a couple years ago  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2017 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13365054 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13365052 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


Iglesias was a finalist last year, Hechavarria's been a finalist before and we play the Marlins enough to know he's really good. It's hard to appreciate how good or bad any player is defensively without watching them every day and I don't think any of the defensive metrics are a reliable substitute yet. Seen far too many inconsistencies in the last few years since they've become more of a thing. I thought Cabrera was more than solid last year but in no way would I call him a GG contender. I think it's fair to say the other 3 are closer.



Iglesias aside (because he actually has shown some ability to hit previously) the other 2 are AWFUL offensive players. You want to suddenly discount fWAR? I thought the argument was defensive metrics overrated guys like Zobrist? Derek Jeter and Palmeiro won GG's. They don't mean a whole lot and surely don't make up for an utter lack of hitting ability. The Mets wouldn't trade Cabrera for Escobar or Hechavarria... trust me.


I'm not discounting fwar - I'm discounting 1 season as a sample size because Cabrera's year last year was his best in 5 years. Hechavarria had the exact same fwar in 2015, Escobar you'd have to go back 2 years to 2014. If any of these guys were more consistent it would be a more obvious decision but they all have flaws - in a good year they can be top 10 at their position but their range is somewhere in the middle 1/3 of starters. I still think most GMs would choose Escobar over Cabrera at SS because defense is generally more predictable than offense and it's not like Escobar is an automatic out like Rey Ordonez.
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