I'm sure we've had 50 of these threads already but what's one more log on the fire. I don't think anyone who is paying attention is under any illusion; this is going to be a crucial and difficult offseason and it will largely determine whether the Giants return to the postseason in 2017.
Part I: The big nearterm questions are what to do about some familiar faces. Just cause you have the cap space doesn't mean you should spend it, but conversely the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.
1. Victor Cruz: My favorite Giant for many reasons. But sentiment has no bearing here. He is not what he once was, can't win consistently on the outside, and offers nothing on specials. It is time to say goodbye, good luck, and see you some autumn afternoon in the ring of honor.
2. JPP: Along with Eli, Cruz, and Nicks, JPP personified the Giants 2011 championship run. That was 6 years ago. The 28 year old DE is finally in position to cash in, and he has stated he plans on doing so. Many of us wish the Giants could bring him back for 12 million per season, but that is a child's dream scenario that has minimal chance of coming true. JPP wants no less than 15 mil per season and if other teams start bidding, which they almost certainly will, the price tag could hit 17 mil per or dare I say even higher. To top it off JPP might be 28, but he has half a hand and a back surgery in his history. Not to mention his motivation has been questioned in his younger days. But this really is all about money. The Giants could match an outrageous deal by Jacksonville or Cleveland, but I'd argue they shouldn't. See Rodney Hampton in the mid 90s. This team is not one player away, and giving JPP QB money is not a wise move. Reality is, Giants fans need to prepare for the post JPP DL. Good news is the DE draft is deep and has Giants type DEs in it.
3. Hankins: Jonathan Hankins is a good, stout, run stuffing DT. Problem is, that appears to be all he is and those types of players do not command top dollar, nor should they. Also, with Snacks being on the roster, and the Giants having committed big money to him, Hankins skill set, at the price he would command, becomes functionally and fiscally redundant. As good as Hank is, he is not Linvall Joseph, who was a more dynamic interior DL. The Giants should not pay Hankins just because they elected not to match offers to Joseph. All signs point to Hank signing on a team that desperately needs a run stuffing DT. The Giants do not fit that description.
4. DRC: On most teams, DRC would be a starter. And as the 3rd cb in the modern day NFL, he effectively is. The issue is not his salary, it is that his salary counts so much against the cap. This situation is ideal for a restructure, which is what I expect to happen.
5: Some less significant, yet important moves will be the following:
- Resign Marshall Newhouse: no I'm not crazy. He will be a cheap vet, who can play both OT positions, and proved he can play guard if needed. He has value.
- Resign Keenan Robinson: He is an outstanding nickel LB, and will not be expensive.
- Resign Mark Herzlich: core special teams player
- Cut Jennings, JT Thomas, and Whitlock. They have no role on the team.
Part II: Free Agency
I would expect the Giants to address as many needs as possible in FA, leaving the organization open to drafting players and not positions in the draft. Having created need by saving money on the DL, I expect the Giants to place a priority on a 3tech DT, OTs, and a vet DE.
1. Sign either Calais Campbell, should the Cardinals be crazy enough to let him hit FA, or Nick Fairley. While Campbell will cost a pretty penny, he is a 6'8" monster who will be a pass rushing force on the inside. He is also under 30. Fairely would be cheaper and still provide a quality disruptive presence as a 3tech DT.
2. Bring veteran talent to the OL. In my humble view, Eric Flowers is a RG in this league. In fact, he might be a monster of a RG. With that in mind, I bring in OT Riley Reiff, who has played left and right tackle, and should be reasonably priced considering what teams pay for OTs. I also take a chance on Matt Kalil, because at worst he plays RT and is coming off an injury and shouldn't be too costly. So in 2017 the starting OL will from left to right look like:
Reiff, Pugh, Richburg, Flowers, Kalil, with Newhouse, Hart, and Jones serving as backups.
3. To address the need for a vet presence at DE, I'd look to Devin Taylor who has all the measurables of a Giants DE at 6'7", but sporadic pass rush numbers over the past three years. It is quite possible the talent depletion on the Detroit DL over the past Two seasons has negatively impacted his production.
4. The Giants will probably need a backup QB, and I don't think drafting one answers the need or is smart given talent questions elsewhere. I'd look at Matt Barkley, who played pretty well on a hapless Bears team this past year.
5. You'll notice no TE, RB or WR. Quite frankly I don't think the FA WRs are going to be worth the cost to the Giants, considering their need for a big outside WR. Jeffrey is unaffordable, and players like Britt or Quick have been too inconsistent as pros to make me want to pay them. The FA tight ends don't impress me at the amount the Giants would have to pay to get a good one. Also it's a very deep TE draft class. Same thing with running back. Eddie Lacy continues to be a cheeseburger away from eating himself out of the league, and the Giants will probably look to the deep draft class to get a price controlled RB, with ample tread left on the tires.
Part III, The draft
None of the draft simulators out there are incredibly accurate, but like many I used FanSpeak. So with the offseason that I just spelled out in mind, here is how it went.
Round 1 - Zach Cunningham, LB Vanderbilt. At 6'4" and 230lbs, Cunningham is the three down LB the Giants look for. A tackling machine, who is good in coverage, Cunningham has potential as a blitzer, but wasn't used much in that capacity. To be honest, I would have gone with OJ Howard, Christian McCaffrey, or Taco Charlton here, but they were all off the board. It was a toss up between Cunningham and Hasson Reddick, but I went with the Vandy LB because of his proven cover skills and natural fit with Gmen when you consider what the team wants at LB. Cunningham was easily the BPA who was not an OL during this mock.
Round 2 - Evan Engram TE Ole Miss. I can hear it now, he's too small (6'3" 230) and he is not an inline TE who can block. Well, guess what, the Giants don't need a 6'6" 250lb TE to block. They drafted that guy last year. Everyone loves a Gronk (a complete TE) but Howard might be the only one of those in the draft. Engram is a legit weapon in the passing game, who is really an over grown WR. He actually is an above average blocker and he has incredible hands. Effortlessly and seamlessly snatching balls out of the air with his hands. He can threaten the seam, and he can beat the smaller CB outside. He is the weapon the Giants offense has been waiting for.
Round 3 - Tanoh Kpassagnon DE Villanova. The JPP of lesser known college football programs. He is raw as ever but actually might have more athletic ability than JPP did coming out of college. Considering he is 6'7" 270+ with a wingspan, the potential is just scary. Make no mistake, his measurables along will get him draft by someone in rounds 2-4. He will have much to work on, but he is already disruptive. He can be a situational 3rd down pass rusher especially on the inside his rookie year.
Round 4 - Amara Darboh WR Michigan. Good size at 6'2" and a good productive WR in the wolverine pro-style offense. I don't think he has an incredibly high ceiling as he has good but not great speed and is not an explosive WR. But he is steady, uses his body well and could be a good possession WR in this league.
Round 5 - Samaje Perine, RB Texas A& M. I was surprised to see him there in the 5th. I think he fits the Giants offense as the perfect pairing to Paul Perkins. At 5'10" 236, Perine is a powerful runner who has been productive running out of shotgun formations. He will hit the hole hard, move the chains, and has enough burst to make a big gain.
Round 6 - Deatrich Wise Jr, DE Arkansas. Another great size fit at 6'6" and 270. Wise looked ready to break out this year, but a series of injuries kept his production down. His story reminds me of Justin Tuck. Highly regarded college player who played through injuries, hurting his draft stock. He needs to get stronger, but the skillet and football IQ appear to be there. Caught a bit of him at the senior bowl. Came across as articulate and intelligent.
Round 7 - Ankello Witherspoon, CB Colorado. I was very surprised to see him on the board in the 7th. At 6'3" he is one of taller CBs you'll find. His measurables alone give him tremendous upside. If he tests well at the combine, he'll be gone before the 7th.
OK BBI, I think this is an offseason most of us would be happy with. The primary goals were don't overpay to retain players, use FA to fix immediate needs like the OL, and draft with an eye towards getting impact players whether they be for the immediate or near term future. I tend to prioritize length and athleticism wherever possible, and am happy with the picks of Cunningham, Engram, Kpassagnon, Wise Jr, and Witherspoon. As a consequence of bringing in new DEs, Wynn and Odighizuwa could be fighting for roster spots. Perine gives the Giants the RB they need to round out the backfield. The FA additions fix the OL, and our defensive secondary remain intact. You can't fix everything, and losing JPP would be a temporary hurt, but I think this plan or one similar to it makes the overall team better.
Thank you
I agree with about 75% of your post
I disagree with DRC. He's not and should not restructure. Way to valuable and he knows it
Your mock draft. 3rd round. Would rather take Tarell Basham DE Ohio.
So am I interpreting your post correctly. You don't think the Giants should and will resign JPP and Hankins
But thanks again for the post
Lose JPP for Campbell, Hankins for Fairley... No and no.
Kalil and Reiff? No and no. Devin Taylor? Maybe.
The draft isn't so bad.
I'd rather tag JPP. And let the 12-15 million per year offer sit on the table. How about replacing Hankins with Campbell? Then drafting BPA at OL, LB, WR with your first there picks.
**first three picks
As far as the draft:
Hodges over Engram.
Rounds four through seven are probably unrealistic, especially four, six, and seven.
I think we'll draft an OL somewhere.
Good job.
I don't disagree. I went with Reiff only because of age, but I would be more than happy with Whitworth on a 1-2 year deal.
Given your expertise, please feel free to blast holes in my write up. Especially the draft.
As far as the draft:
Hodges over Engram.
Rounds four through seven are probably unrealistic, especially four, six, and seven.
I think we'll draft an OL somewhere.
Good job.
Thanks. I don't really thnk Arizona will let Campbell get away.
I like Hodges as well, but Engram struck me as the better receiving option. Would be happy with Hodges too. He has upside.
Campbell also made 14+ Million and 15+ Million the last two seasons. He likely isn't coming much cheaper or being much more effective than JPP.
Thank you
I agree with about 75% of your post
I disagree with DRC. He's not and should not restructure. Way to valuable and he knows it
Your mock draft. 3rd round. Would rather take Tarell Basham DE Ohio.
So am I interpreting your post correctly. You don't think the Giants should and will resign JPP and Hankins
But thanks again for the post
Thanks Earl
I think the price for JPP is going to out of hand quickly. He does not appear to be interested in a hometown discount and franchising him locks up cap dollars that are going to be needed elsewhere. Just not seeing a way around this impasse.
I just don't think Hank is going to be worth what a team needing a run stuffing DT is going to pay. I'd like to keep both JPP and Hankins, but not sure it makes financial sense.
I like Basham, but he strikes me as a bit of a tweeter and i have a preference for the height, weight, length guys.
So my thought on DRC is that he would be interested in a restructure that meant a conversion of his cap figure into cash, with no reduction in overall pay. Heck, I'd even give him more money if it lowered his cap number.
Lose JPP for Campbell, Hankins for Fairley... No and no.
Kalil and Reiff? No and no. Devin Taylor? Maybe.
The draft isn't so bad.
I'd rather tag JPP. And let the 12-15 million per year offer sit on the table. How about replacing Hankins with Campbell? Then drafting BPA at OL, LB, WR with your first there picks.
Could see that as long as the Hankins deal was reasonable.
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should be LT Andrew Whitworth. Sure...just a 1-2 year band aid for left tackle. But I can't watch Flowers play there anymore.
I don't disagree. I went with Reiff only because of age, but I would be more than happy with Whitworth on a 1-2 year deal.
Given your expertise, please feel free to blast holes in my write up. Especially the draft.
Campbell would be a godsend..but `ARI loves him. I don't really like to comment too much on other FAs though.
I am all for showing the door to the guys you want out.
Draft wise...
Witherspoon is on my sleeper list. He may finish as a top 10 CB on my board, and this CB class is loaded.
Wise I've been back and forth on. He has the tools and has a few glimpses of top tier tape. Was banged up in 2016, looked awesome at Shrine week. He has a agh ceiling as well...in a weak DE class I think he is going to be a 4th round type.
Perine I like. Darboh I am indifferent about. Rather someone like Texas A&M's Josh Reynolds. Has more upside, more deep threat potential which Eli sorely needs.
DE Kpass is very raw but very intriguing. Has rare tools and a great attitude. If NYG could get him in round 3 it is a great pick.
Love the Engram to NYG fit. This team needs, desperately, another threat in the passing game and I don't care what position he plays. Engram is listed as a TE, but his impact would be that of a WR. Matchup nightmare. Think Jordan Reed in this offense. They can get the blocking out of Adams/Tye/FA signing.
Just have never been, won't be either, a Cunningham guy. I get why people like him but his lack of power and strength is something I hate. He'll get pushed around too often. If NYG goes LB in round 1, Davis from Florida is my guy.
Campbell also made 14+ Million and 15+ Million the last two seasons. He likely isn't coming much cheaper or being much more effective than JPP.
Patrick, good catch. I had my numbers mixed up in the write up. Must have confused Campbell with someone else. Regardless I don't think Zona lets him go, and I agree with you. That's not the way the Giants should go.
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In comment 13358398 Sy'56 said:
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should be LT Andrew Whitworth. Sure...just a 1-2 year band aid for left tackle. But I can't watch Flowers play there anymore.
I don't disagree. I went with Reiff only because of age, but I would be more than happy with Whitworth on a 1-2 year deal.
Given your expertise, please feel free to blast holes in my write up. Especially the draft.
Campbell would be a godsend..but `ARI loves him. I don't really like to comment too much on other FAs though.
I am all for showing the door to the guys you want out.
Draft wise...
Witherspoon is on my sleeper list. He may finish as a top 10 CB on my board, and this CB class is loaded.
Wise I've been back and forth on. He has the tools and has a few glimpses of top tier tape. Was banged up in 2016, looked awesome at Shrine week. He has a agh ceiling as well...in a weak DE class I think he is going to be a 4th round type.
Perine I like. Darboh I am indifferent about. Rather someone like Texas A&M's Josh Reynolds. Has more upside, more deep threat potential which Eli sorely needs.
DE Kpass is very raw but very intriguing. Has rare tools and a great attitude. If NYG could get him in round 3 it is a great pick.
Love the Engram to NYG fit. This team needs, desperately, another threat in the passing game and I don't care what position he plays. Engram is listed as a TE, but his impact would be that of a WR. Matchup nightmare. Think Jordan Reed in this offense. They can get the blocking out of Adams/Tye/FA signing.
Just have never been, won't be either, a Cunningham guy. I get why people like him but his lack of power and strength is something I hate. He'll get pushed around too often. If NYG goes LB in round 1, Davis from Florida is my guy.
Thanks Sy, great insight as always.
I have the same opinion of Engram. He's a difference maker.
I'm also intrigued by Wise. I think the talent is there.
Reynolds from A&M is one to watch. He's on my Wr short list.
Kpassagnon would be a great fit in blue.
JPP is only 1 year older.
JPP outplayed Vernon.
JPP is the best player at his position available and the best pass rusher out there, he is also probably the youngest.
The closest FA comparison is 31 at season start and made 15 million last year.
There is a ridiculous amount of cap space available to chase players.
I'm not JPP's biggest fan by any means but it's pretty obvious to me the stars have aligned for him to make some serious money.
Re the thread:I think JPP and Hank say, and depending on how well JR does fixing OL, they go DE or DT in rd 3.
On Darboh: if you don't give him at least double digit targets a game, especially in a game with a high pass count,he can lose focus easily and drop a couple of consecutive passes til he regains focus.
I do like the 4th round pick who mocks have as a 5th, but we draft so late in the round due to walkie talkie gate our spot is +/- a 5th rd.
Obviously if we fix OL in FA, if ZC is a day 1 starter, he's a great pick at 23.
The obvious course the Giants should take during this offseason is to keep its defense intact while adding a few key pieces to the offense. Then going all out to get back to the big dance in Eli's remaining years.
And this is not even that difficult. The team is in very good shape cap-wise, especially considering all the spending it did last year. Manning's big cap hit will retire when Eli does.
There seem to be a lot of bad feelings about overpaying JPP. When considering his value to the team, don't forget that Vernon had only half a sack during the last four games of the season without JPP. You can't double team JPP and Vernon. And don't forget the eight passes batted away at the line. He's been doing that for his whole career. And he plays the run and is fast enough to (I hope) contain Rodgers.
Injury prone? In JPP's first five years, he missed only five games during 2013. If you want to consider blowing your hand up an injury and not an accident, then you may be right about injury-prone. He still has another hand that he could blow up.
I'm not found of overpaying him, but lots of NFL players are overpaid. Is Eli overpayed? He's making almost as much as Rodgers.
Under your plan it appears that the Giants will be Not Quite Good Enough for the Super Bowl during Eli's last years, and Not Quite Good Enough after Eli retires. I'm for Good Enough for the next two or three seasons even if it means Not Good Enough for a few years after Eli retires.
Following this team and sport that we all love is so great when you're an elite contender and so poor when you're a bottom dweller.
I hope that I have not offended anyone.
This OL class is very weak. Very.
There is no reason for DRC to renegotiate...he is paid 6.48M to be the 3rd corner, which by today's standards, is a bargain.....unless you can find someone better at the same price, you stand pat.....but you have to draft and groom his eventual replacement....
The loss of JPP and Hankins would be huge......but it could happen......and then, they have to be replaced......
The draft may produce one starter.....free agency has to fill quite a few holes.....but there is only so much cap money....
Your draft of LB in the first round is nice but I may actually like Reddick more than Cunningham. He can rush, cover and tackle in space. Love this kids skill set.
I also love Engram. I would be happier with Howard or Njoku in round 1 though. Engram would be my next choice.
KPass at DE is my wish in round 3. You can't teach 6'7" 280 and I think this kid plays hard and could even move inside on 3rd down.
Great job!!!
DRC is a must to keep in my book. Depth is so key at this position. And he had a very good year.
Your draft of LB in the first round is nice but I may actually like Reddick more than Cunningham. He can rush, cover and tackle in space. Love this kids skill set.
I also love Engram. I would be happier with Howard or Njoku in round 1 though. Engram would be my next choice.
KPass at DE is my wish in round 3. You can't teach 6'7" 280 and I think this kid plays hard and could even move inside on 3rd down.
Great job!!!
Thank you. You know I like Reddick a lot too, and would love to see him in blue, as long as we used him right. I just thought Cunningham's length would appeal to Reese and company.
I think finding a compliment to Snacks is one of the most crucial needs this offseason. It could bring a new dimension to the defense.
I do love the idea of buying low on Fairley as I think he could have a breakout season with the benefit of playing next to Snacks.
The obvious course the Giants should take during this offseason is to keep its defense intact while adding a few key pieces to the offense. Then going all out to get back to the big dance in Eli's remaining years.
And this is not even that difficult. The team is in very good shape cap-wise, especially considering all the spending it did last year. Manning's big cap hit will retire when Eli does.
There seem to be a lot of bad feelings about overpaying JPP. When considering his value to the team, don't forget that Vernon had only half a sack during the last four games of the season without JPP. You can't double team JPP and Vernon. And don't forget the eight passes batted away at the line. He's been doing that for his whole career. And he plays the run and is fast enough to (I hope) contain Rodgers.
Injury prone? In JPP's first five years, he missed only five games during 2013. If you want to consider blowing your hand up an injury and not an accident, then you may be right about injury-prone. He still has another hand that he could blow up.
I'm not found of overpaying him, but lots of NFL players are overpaid. Is Eli overpayed? He's making almost as much as Rodgers.
Under your plan it appears that the Giants will be Not Quite Good Enough for the Super Bowl during Eli's last years, and Not Quite Good Enough after Eli retires. I'm for Good Enough for the next two or three seasons even if it means Not Good Enough for a few years after Eli retires.
Following this team and sport that we all love is so great when you're an elite contender and so poor when you're a bottom dweller.
I hope that I have not offended anyone.
Amen
There is no reason for DRC to renegotiate...he is paid 6.48M to be the 3rd corner, which by today's standards, is a bargain.....unless you can find someone better at the same price, you stand pat.....but you have to draft and groom his eventual replacement....
The loss of JPP and Hankins would be huge......but it could happen......and then, they have to be replaced......
The draft may produce one starter.....free agency has to fill quite a few holes.....but there is only so much cap money....
In a way, franchising JPP lowers the Giants' risk. If JPP doesn't produce, or if he misses time again, or if we find someone to replace him, then we are not tied to him for any more years.
JPP may not be the brightest, but I don't see him as playing poorly on purpose out of spite. Simply because he becomes a free agent again after the franchise and he still has to show the other teams that he is worth big bucks.
The obvious course the Giants should take during this offseason is to keep its defense intact while adding a few key pieces to the offense. Then going all out to get back to the big dance in Eli's remaining years.
And this is not even that difficult. The team is in very good shape cap-wise, especially considering all the spending it did last year. Manning's big cap hit will retire when Eli does.
There seem to be a lot of bad feelings about overpaying JPP. When considering his value to the team, don't forget that Vernon had only half a sack during the last four games of the season without JPP. You can't double team JPP and Vernon. And don't forget the eight passes batted away at the line. He's been doing that for his whole career. And he plays the run and is fast enough to (I hope) contain Rodgers.
Injury prone? In JPP's first five years, he missed only five games during 2013. If you want to consider blowing your hand up an injury and not an accident, then you may be right about injury-prone. He still has another hand that he could blow up.
I'm not found of overpaying him, but lots of NFL players are overpaid. Is Eli overpayed? He's making almost as much as Rodgers.
Under your plan it appears that the Giants will be Not Quite Good Enough for the Super Bowl during Eli's last years, and Not Quite Good Enough after Eli retires. I'm for Good Enough for the next two or three seasons even if it means Not Good Enough for a few years after Eli retires.
Following this team and sport that we all love is so great when you're an elite contender and so poor when you're a bottom dweller.
I hope that I have not offended anyone.
Not offended but I do think you miss my point a little.
1. Never said JPP was injury prone, just that he has had some noteable ones.
2. Salary cap is not my main concern. I would have no hesitation about giving JPP Vernon money if there weren't so many other immediate issues on offense. You add in Eli's three year window and you have to act even quicker and there is little margin for error. Additionally, I don't think JPP is going to get Vernon money, I think he gets more than Vernon, and there are a handful of teams willing and able to do that. I'd actually prefer to keep JPP, he is a core player on the team, I just don't see that happening.
3. I would also like to keep the defense intact, but that's not going to be enough to win the Super Bowl. If keeping JPP and Hankins prevents the Giants from fixing the OL, Eli will be lucky to be in the playoffs next year, much less the Super Bowl.
If the Giants can find a way to keep JPP, fix the OL and get Eli more weapons, without putting the team in salary cap hell that prevents them from keeping OBJ, Richburg or Collins (none of whom are going to come cheap) then I'm all for keeping JPP
Zeitler would be an awesome signing. We tend to forget that a dominant RG is almost as important as the LT position. NYG needs s better Run/pass mix and running the ball better will take much of the pressure put on Flowers and the entire OL.
I would love Whitworth but bringing in talent in general to the Oline is what is important.
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Great effort in this post!!!! I think your offseason free agency is interesting. Reiff is somebody I think NYG will get because of his versatility. To be honest I would rather have Whitworth and the other FA OL in Larry Warford for the RG position. Our OL would be: Whitworth, Pugh, Richburg, Warford, Flowers. I to think JPP would be to expensive and would hinder our ability to improve the OL. I think Campbell would be too expensive but I love the idea of him at 3 Tech DT. Nick Fairley would be a better possibility at DT and would compliment Snacks.
Your draft of LB in the first round is nice but I may actually like Reddick more than Cunningham. He can rush, cover and tackle in space. Love this kids skill set.
I also love Engram. I would be happier with Howard or Njoku in round 1 though. Engram would be my next choice.
KPass at DE is my wish in round 3. You can't teach 6'7" 280 and I think this kid plays hard and could even move inside on 3rd down.
Great job!!!
Thank you. You know I like Reddick a lot too, and would love to see him in blue, as long as we used him right. I just thought Cunningham's length would appeal to Reese and company.
I think finding a compliment to Snacks is one of the most crucial needs this offseason. It could bring a new dimension to the defense.
Cunningham is an athletic freak. I agree. Reddick kind of reminds me a little of Kahlil Mack, but smaller. Something about him screams " special ".
The defensive line play of the Giants was very unusual last season. In the first 7 games, through the LA London game, the DL had all of 4.5 sacks. Vernon had 1, people had started whispering that he was another example of an expensive free agent bust.
Then in the next five games they had 15 sacks, through Pittsburgh, the last game for JPP. True that playing the Browns and the Bears helped, but they also played the Eagles when the Eagles were a hot team, and Pittsburgh and the Bengals, who were better than their 6-9-1 record.
The last four games of the regular season, without JPP, the DL had only 3 sacks, including Romeo's only sack of the season against Dallas.
You might take a guess that the DL was so sackless in the first 7 games because they had to get used to playing together as a group. If they could come near to that 15 sacks in five games for a whole season, Giants could have a one of the great defenses.
That doesn't happen without JPP. Vernon had only 1.5 sacks in sixteen games when playing without Jason.
I think the pass rush is second in importance to the QB in making a winning team.
I'd rather we re-sign both JPP and Hankins (unless we can sign another of the very solid crop of DTs available in FA this year) and sign one FA OL, then have an almost all offense draft.
I think that we can land an X receiver or TE, an OG and a RB fairly early in the draft this year, then augment that as we go along. Doesn't solve the OLT quandary, but solving that's not dependent upon our spending on JPP or Hankins, since there is only one guy who stands out, in Whitworth, and we would have enough to sign him regardless.
The defensive line play of the Giants was very unusual last season. In the first 7 games, through the LA London game, the DL had all of 4.5 sacks. Vernon had 1, people had started whispering that he was another example of an expensive free agent bust.
Then in the next five games they had 15 sacks, through Pittsburgh, the last game for JPP. True that playing the Browns and the Bears helped, but they also played the Eagles when the Eagles were a hot team, and Pittsburgh and the Bengals, who were better than their 6-9-1 record.
The last four games of the regular season, without JPP, the DL had only 3 sacks, including Romeo's only sack of the season against Dallas.
You might take a guess that the DL was so sackless in the first 7 games because they had to get used to playing together as a group. If they could come near to that 15 sacks in five games for a whole season, Giants could have a one of the great defenses.
That doesn't happen without JPP. Vernon had only 1.5 sacks in sixteen games when playing without Jason.
I think the pass rush is second in importance to the QB in making a winning team.
I don't disagree with anything you just said. No doubt the ingredients to a championship caliber team is good QB and front seven play, which includes a pass rush.
Would much prefer JPP be in blue. He brings a lot to the table. I just see a Cleveland, Jacksonville, or Tampa throwing a lot of money his way.
Re: JPP, it doesn't matter what another team can offer him. The Giants can franchise him. They have the space to absorb the hit if he wants to play hardball.
Hankins -- letting him walk for Fairley is a net negative. Losing Hankins and JPP would be disastrous for the defense. Nothing in the draft besides a 3rd round DE project and a LB who can't tackle makes the defense and team worse in '17.
Reiff/Khalil -- both weren't very good in '16. Probably better than what we had but signing both reeks of bad contracts that won't be justified on the field.
This team is close. if they're smart in FA and nail the draft, they will contend for a SB. Keep the D intact. Add one OL in FA. Find a pass rusher, OT, TE, WR, and CB in the draft.
Goodbye Herzlich...no upside as a role player. Well past time to move on from him.
No to Reiff...wasn't good enough to keep his LT job so why would we want him? Whitworth is absolutely the guy to pursue with Kalil as the fallback option.
Cap wise Calais makes no sense. A proven DT will be signed...there are about 7 hitting the free agent market that will be fine playing next to Snacks. Sign one of them.
As far as the draft I'll leave that until free agency plays out. Too many variables muddying the waters before we make some moves that provide some clarity.
No, he's homegrown, he helps the chemistry and the on-field needs.
The defense played well without JPP. The fact is we were creaming Rogers until Cromartie went down. This guy is still underrated and if you're talking 15 mil for JPP this guy is a special bargain at about 1/3 the money.
I'm all over the place with JPP, hate to see him go, but then I think, how would NE handle it and the answer's obvious.
Re: JPP, it doesn't matter what another team can offer him. The Giants can franchise him. They have the space to absorb the hit if he wants to play hardball.
Hankins -- letting him walk for Fairley is a net negative. Losing Hankins and JPP would be disastrous for the defense. Nothing in the draft besides a 3rd round DE project and a LB who can't tackle makes the defense and team worse in '17.
Reiff/Khalil -- both weren't very good in '16. Probably better than what we had but signing both reeks of bad contracts that won't be justified on the field.
This team is close. if they're smart in FA and nail the draft, they will contend for a SB. Keep the D intact. Add one OL in FA. Find a pass rusher, OT, TE, WR, and CB in the draft.
No offense to the OP, but this is the prescription I'd follow. We are close now. Keep the core together then add pieces.
Is this an attempt to say that the Giants' defense will not miss a DE who in 12 games had 7 sacks, 8 passes knocked down at the line of scrimmage, 3 forced fumbles and played superbly against the run.
Well, we could start with the game they didn't win, the 38 points they gave up to Green Bay.
Could JPP, with his size and speed, have contained Rodgers when Rodgers ran to his own left to buy time to find an open receiver?
Aside from the playoff game, the defensive line had 15 sacks in the 5 games before JPP went down. In the last 4 regular season games the DL had 2 sacks. That's all. Vernon had 7.5 of his 8.5 sacks in games 1-12, and 1 sack in the last 4 games.
This makes sense since if you have current 2nd team All-Pro at one end and former 1st team All-Pro on the other end, they can't double team both. I think JPP was the one who drew most double teams.
It's so important to improve the offense that we can spare someone on the defense.
Don't get this logic. The defense and the offense are linked. The defense controls turnovers and field position and hopefully adds some defensive scores. Life is much easier for the offense when they start with a short field. Turnovers are the key to many games.
We can probably keep the same defense and add offensive players without getting into some cap problems. But if we have to stretch the cap some, what's the deal. Is it worth it to be a top team again? We have to face Dak twice a year.
Weren't the Cowboys and the Redskins supposed to be in cap hell when the Giants tattled on them for breaking rules? They certainly recovered fast. Washington has tons of cap space and good old Dan Graziano is urging the Cowboys to pay the 18 million to sign JPP.
On basic defenses, he stinks at 3 positions.
On specials, he is solid, but he is not a star and is easily replaceable.