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NFT: Knicks Chat: Oakley and Jimmy wuv each other

DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 9:20 am
- A truce has been reached thanks to intervention from Adam Silver and MJ. It's expected Oakley will be back at the garden shortly.

-Hahn says Melo will not be traded

Around the league-

-Whispers that Embiid's knee is a "concern" to the 76ers and that they are downplaying it

- Saric 18 and 11 on 8-17, 3 assists. Last 5 games 19 and 6 with 3 assists on 51/41 shooting

-Kaminsky 12 and 11 (only shot 5-16, really surprised how poorly he has shot the ball)

-Leonard 32 points, 6 boards 3 assists, 4 steals. Averaging a ridiculous 33 and 7 with 4 assists, 2 steals last 5 games. He's my league MVP if I for some bizarre reason had a vote.

-Turner 22 and 6 (big fan but his lack of athleticism seems to limit his rebounding ability)

-Conley 32 and 6

-Lopez 17 points... 3 boards in 32 minutes

-Vucevic 13 and 17 with 3 assists, 3 blocks

-Super Mario 11 points, 1 board, 1 assist 1 steal over 16 minutes

-Sabonis 6 and 7. I only mention him because I have to say he has some intriguing skills despite his numbers. The fact he's getting so much burn (despite the #'s) as a 20 year old on a good team is a good sign. Moves really well, good hands. He's intriguing (again I know he hasn't been good)

-Maker 6 and 5 (3-10) over 17 minutes

-Beasley 23 points, 3 boards, 4 assists... had no idea he was playing so well in limited minutes


-Monroe 25 and 12. Sort of surprised you aren't hearing some of the teams looking for bigs in on Monroe. Yeah he needs the right team but the guy can play.


-Smart 19, 3 and 3... last 5 games 51% from the field

-Ferrell 20, 5 assists, 2 boards

-Jokic... WOW. 17 points, 12 assists, 21 boards, 2 steals

-Juancho 27 and 10, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block. Sure looks like both Hernangomez Brothers can ball

-PJ Tucker 11 and 16- one of the more likely movers at the deadline

-THjr 25, 7 and 4 (has been FANTASTIC lately)
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RE: Didn't toronto just trade their 1st?  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13360849 Keith said:
Quote:
It would have to be 2019 1st.


toronto owns clippers first this year
This is how teams viewed Zach Thomas  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:15 pm : link
when he was on the Knicks.
Where amazing happens! - ( New Window )
RE: I would only want Love  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13360837 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
if we could flip him for picks. This knee injury doesn't help that cause, so I'm not sure this would even make sense from a Knicks standpoint. So we'll probably go ahead and do it.

Someone posted an excerpt from Berman's story today that Phil thinks of KP and Willy as the frontcourt of the future. If Love isn't helping us add 1s, 2s or 3s, I don't see much point in acquiring him.


Is Melo helping us add 1s, 2s or 3s? At least having love gives you that upside. Maybe get what Ibaka got in return. Melo has no upside of that.

For those who think melo will get anything this offseason are ignoring the fact that he's going to be a 34 year old on an expiring contract. Cleveland seems to be the only realistic place he'd waive his clause anyways.

Keeping Melo around next year offers zero upside. Absolutely none. Love at least will be sub-30 with one more year on his deal. He could very well have no trade value (just like Melo). But he also could command some combo of picks/young players (unlike Melo).
Love also has more value  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:20 pm : link
Simply because of no NTC. Whereas a dumb team like Orlando couldn't offer Oladipo for Melo, we would open to ourselves to the magic and the kings of the world.
I really can't see the argument for why  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:32 pm : link
the Knicks wouldn't do it.
When push comes to shove  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 1:37 pm : link
I'd move Melo for Love, mainly because I can't stomach the idea of two more years of this Melo/Phil bullshit, but my ideal scenario was to re-direct Love for a first rounder in this year's draft. Knowing the Knicks luck, I have this fear of Love coming back at the end of the season, blowing out his knee completely, and being an albatross contract for us going forward.
If he did blow his knee out  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:38 pm : link
it would be completely unrelated to this injury.
RE: I really can't see the argument for why  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13360868 Keith said:
Quote:
the Knicks wouldn't do it.


There is absolutely none. People just want to add to the "typical Knicks move" narrative and it doesn't fit at all.

The benefits are two-fold. Switching Melo for Love (who won't play the rest of the season) all but guarantees you a top 5 pick in this draft. And then the upside of flipping Love next season after showcasing he is healthy for a piece or two to add to KP, Willy and a top 5 pick.

RE: If he did blow his knee out  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13360872 Keith said:
Quote:
it would be completely unrelated to this injury.


Why would they risk playing Love the last week of the season anyways?
I am a knee injury/surgery connoisseur....  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:45 pm : link
There was no ligament damage to Love, it was all in his meniscus which is the cartilage that sits in your knee and prevents your bones from hitting each other. When the meniscus is torn, there are two options in surgery depending on where the tear is and other factors such as age.

1. Repair-Sometimes the meniscus can be repaired which has a better long term prognosis because the player usually makes a full recovery. The recovery is generally 4-6 months at a minimum, sometimes longer, but you want to make sure this heals right. This is what Rose had.

2. removal-when the knee is scoped and the tear is on the outer edges of the meniscus, it's shaved away or removed. The recovery is much quicker, they are saying 4-6 weeks, but there are plenty of examples of athletes coming back much quicker and longer than the 6 weeks. Marshall Faulk came back in 2 weeks I think. The player comes back quicker and can regain form, but this will cause arthritis as there is no cartilage preventing the bones from hitting. Usually that takes a while to come on, as I've mentioned, it usually effects guys in their mid-late 30's depending on their fitness level.
Does Melo/Toronto want a guaranteed finals appearance?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 1:55 pm : link
Waive your NTC for Toronto Melo.

Raptors Get:
Melo
Jennings
KOQ
Holiday

Knicks Get:
Carroll
Powell
Sullinger
Wright
Patterson
Clips 1st rounder
Now you're just wasting  
Keith : 2/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
everyones time!
RE: Now you're just wasting  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13360895 Keith said:
Quote:
everyones time!


You wouldn't do that?
Would prefer Love  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:03 pm : link
Obviously.

Just an alternative.
ok fine..  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:04 pm : link
1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.
RE: ok fine..  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13360901 Keith said:
Quote:
1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.


Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.
And by wing rotation  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:07 pm : link
I'm obviously excluding Derozan. I mean the 3 and 4 spots.
Credit goes to the commish  
LCtheINTMachine : 2/14/2017 2:08 pm : link
He saw how ridiculous the situation was and stepped in. This was a major embarrassment to the league, especially in New York.

A jackass like David Stern probably would have banned Oakley from every arena in the league.
Don't even get to #2  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:08 pm : link
until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.
Consider the source-  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:14 pm : link
Incarcerated Bob 🔌 ‏@incarceratedbob 4s4 seconds ago
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Some NBA Rumors:
Celtics & Thunder have interest in Taj Gibson / O'Quinn / Tucker #Suns
Hawks letting teams know @DwightHoward is available
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You need to be banned  
Keith : 2/14/2017 2:15 pm : link
just for posting Incarcerated Bob. Seriously though, whats the point to create fake conversations?
RE: Don't even get to #2  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13360909 Keith said:
Quote:
until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.


Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).
RE: RE: Don't even get to #2  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13360925 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360909 Keith said:


Quote:


until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.



Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).


Toronto isn't likely, but Washington could be.
RE: RE: RE: Don't even get to #2  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13360934 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360925 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360909 Keith said:


Quote:


until you clear up #1. Melo is not going to Toronto. Clearly winning is not his top priority, he wants to be comfortable, doesn't want to uproot his team and play with his buddies. Toronto offers none of that. His BF's aren't on Toronto. I highly doubt he wants to move his family to Canada.



Well yeah lol. It's funny to think about it though. LaLa takes on Toronto. But hey, don't even need to move the family! It's what, a 90 minute trip via private jet/air Canada? That's nothing!


But hey if you're phil why don't you tell Melo to leak it like he's excited what Toronto has to offer, drum up interest and force Clevelands hand to deal Love (or maybe Boston comes back into play with a serious offer).



Toronto isn't likely, but Washington could be.


Why? Toronto I get making moves like Ibaka because you're going to pay Lowry the max through his mid-30s and even if no one really is going to beat GS you at least have a small shot at taking your team for the Finals for the first time ever.

Don't see why Washington is forced to make a move. John Wall is only 26 and Beal and Porter are both 23. Why not just let your team grow organically? By the time Wall is at his peak (maybe age 30-31) Beal and Porter could be all-stars (probably not Porter, but who knows? Both have gotten better every year in the league and maybe Oubre turns into something) and they will be read to take over the east when Lebron, Lowry and Horford are fading into their twilight years.

Washington should stay the course.
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:40 pm : link
is not being traded.
Everyones hyping  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:40 pm : link
Milwaukee and Philly to be the top teams post Lebron era (admittedly I am too) but Washington could have a couple of years before them.
with another ACL for Parker  
JOMO25 : 2/14/2017 2:42 pm : link
I wouldn't say Milwaukee is a top team
RE: RE: ok fine..  
aimrocky : 2/14/2017 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13360906 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13360901 Keith said:


Quote:


1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.



Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.


You're a good poster, but please stop acting like the half wits who call into WFAN proposing Melo and a first for the Nets 1st.

All signs point to this being Cleveland or bust. Melo's not waiving his NTC to uproot his family north of the boarder.
RE: Melo  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13360947 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is not being traded.


Beal  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
deserves more love. These guys who slowly improve gradually don't get enough credit. Beal has improved each season, he's sporting a career best eFG% of 559%, career best 19.6 PER, .153 WS/48. The injury concerns are 1000% valid but he's 23 years old. He reminds me of a young Ray Allen.
I think everyone understands Melo is staying.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
The trade deadline is a next week, and it makes for fun conversation, especially if your team sucks. I sure hope Melo staying doesn't prevent Phil from shopping others vets. We can't afford to be delusional here.
RE: with another ACL for Parker  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13360951 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
I wouldn't say Milwaukee is a top team


I'm a Parker fan, but I wouldn't be shocked if Milwaukee is able to find a strong defensive identity with Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis and Maker long term. Despite his talent, he's been the one guy in Mikwaukee's core that really doesn't fit the rest.
RE: RE: RE: ok fine..  
giantsfan44ab : 2/14/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13360953 aimrocky said:
Quote:
In comment 13360906 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13360901 Keith said:


Quote:


1. Melo isn't going to Toronto.
2. Toronto is going to trade half of the team just to get 2017 melo? unlikely.



Not saying it's likely at all.

But if they're half-assing it with Ibaka, they might as well full-ass it. They've had the worst wing rotation amongst all playoff teams in both conferences until today.

Carrol has been awful.



You're a good poster, but please stop acting like the half wits who call into WFAN proposing Melo and a first for the Nets 1st.

All signs point to this being Cleveland or bust. Melo's not waiving his NTC to uproot his family north of the boarder.


100% was a fantastical trade. Pulled up the trade machine and see what worked. I obviously know he'd never go to Toronto.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 2:51 pm : link
actually find her to mostly be funny (if not 1 note) but ESPN really scraping the bottom of the barrel to have someone who seemingly has no clue about the NBA writing a long piece about the Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
for some reason, ESPN has decided to emphasize the E  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 3:10 pm : link
at the expense of the S. It's not entirely them, though, as there has been a trend of injecting a bunch of pop culture horseshit into sports for a while now. Hell, it's the foundation of Bill Simmons' entire career, and the reason why I wasn't a huge fan of Grantland despite the fact that it did have some excellent writers and publish some outstanding pieces. The sports coverage was fine without them shoehorning in a bunch of filler about music or movies or whatever.
Chris  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 3:25 pm : link
Herring drops a sad face on the Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Chris  
EricNY33 : 2/14/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13360999 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Herring drops a sad face on the Knicks Link - ( New Window )


Someone posted this already
Broussard  
DanMetroMan : 2/14/2017 4:33 pm : link
CHRIS: I would say no to your theory, but with this news, it might make me think about it if Iím the Cavs in general.

And everybodyís talking about Meloís contract. Kevin Love has one more year left on his contract than Melo has. Melo only has two years left after that. So his contract is not as bad as Kevin Loveís. And in a vacuum, you can argue Melo is a better player.

Itís just a lot of upheaval. They would have to play a different style if they bring in Carmelo Anthony. But can you envision them against Golden State? Kyrie, LeBron, J.R. Smith, Carmelo Anthony and Tristan Thompson? I mean, now Durant or Draymond has to guard Melo and LeBron. You know what I mean? Ö One of those guys is going to get a little bit of a break against Love. They wouldnít get a break against Melo.

I donít want to sound like something Iím pushing it, because Iím really not sure what I would do if I was Cleveland. It just makes it something that I would start to think about now, whereas before it was like, ďNo way.Ē
what a copout  
giants#1 : 2/14/2017 4:42 pm : link
Quote:
I donít want to sound like something Iím pushing it, because Iím really not sure what I would do if I was Cleveland. It just makes it something that I would start to think about now, whereas before it was like, ďNo way.Ē


If Melo is a better matchup (or at least makes it harder to give someone a 'break' defensively), how was it "no way".
I guess Lebron is getting his media lackeys on the case.  
bceagle05 : 2/14/2017 4:45 pm : link
Broussard is always tops on the list. We'll see if/when Windhorst starts pushing for it.
In what vacuum is Melo  
Keith : 2/14/2017 4:47 pm : link
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah because every move was to  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13360838 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360828 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13360825 EricNY33 said:



Um... what is the relevance to this conversation?



my point was he fucked up from the start, instead of trying to win games he should of just tanked, sell off every part of that team and tanked..

instead he tried to win games while also cutting salary



Um... he traded Randolph for Cuttino Mobley (who had a heart condition) and Tim "I Have No Heart" Thomas and Crawford for Al Harrington. How is that trying to win? Those guys all were lesser players than what he gave up. The deal I didn't like was the McGrady deal. That one was just silly.

so then why not go all out and tank instead of bringing in a guy like Duhon? Why not subsequently move a guy like Harrington to a contender?
RE: RE: RE: The Knicks were in a weird position.  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13360794 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13360788 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13360771 Keith said:


Quote:


We had to clear every big salary from the books and not take back any salary into the 2010 season and every single team in the NBA knew exactly what we needed to do. You are trading from a position of weakness when there weren't a lot of teams knocking down the door for the guys that we had. Zach Randolph was a joke with the knicks, literally.


this is just dumb. Walsh unloaded Zach in the fall of 2008 - basically 20 months before Lebron became a free agent. There was no rush - and no need to just dump them the first chance a team offered up expirings for him.



There's a shocking stance!

At the time, without rewriting history and knowing the future, Randolph was considered an albatross and we needed to clear him. My guess is Walsh feared we wouldn't be able to move him for expirings if the didn't do it asap. Randolph was not viewed as a player anyone wanted when he was with the Knicks.

something tells me you don't know dick about how Randolph was viewed at the time. It's amazing how much of a pass you give lousy Knick GMs. It's like Marc Berman taught you everything you know.
I definitely  
Keith : 2/14/2017 4:56 pm : link
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?
RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13361088 Keith said:
Quote:
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.


i am not saying love is a better player bit for the cavs vs warriors melo is a better fit because he can play next to thompson
RE: RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
nygiants16 : 2/14/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13361110 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13361088 Keith said:


Quote:


a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.



i am not saying love is a better player bit for the cavs vs warriors melo is a better fit because he can play next to thompson


that should say i am not saying melo is a better player
RE: In what vacuum is Melo  
Deej : 2/14/2017 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13361088 Keith said:
Quote:
a better player than Love? That's ludicrous.


I think in real life Melo is better. Love shoots 43% as the #3 option with a very good PG and one of the 10 greatest players ever (and a great passer) getting him looks. I struggle to conceive of what Love does better than Melo outside of rebounding.

Cant evaluate them in a vacuum. Melo likely becomes more efficient on CLE and Love likely becomes less efficient in NY (there is a counter argument that he and LeBron dont fit correctly due to where they like to shoot from).
RE: I definitely  
dep026 : 2/14/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13361103 Keith said:
Quote:
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?


You dont give yourself enough credit!!! haha

Why argue with him? You know he is going to say the same things about whoever he dislikes time and time and time and time again.
Love also isn't great at creating his own offense  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2017 5:19 pm : link
Melo gives them someone who can generate points on his own, both to take some more of the burden off LBJ and allow them to be more effective when he's on the bench.
RE: I definitely  
Enzo : 2/14/2017 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13361103 Keith said:
Quote:
don't know as much as you about dicks. Something to shoot for?

wow, good one. Maybe shoot for not being completely lost when it comes to the NBA? It's amazing how often you need to be corrected.
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