Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Mayock releases initial position-by-position rankings

allstarjim : 2/14/2017 12:33 pm
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?show=2

A couple of surprises and observations:

QB rankings are Kizer, Watson, then Trubisky. I think Kizer is the third in that group, and I'd have Trubisky #1.

Corey Davis over Mike Williams. My hope is still that one of those two falls to 23, but I'm thinking more and more it's a pipe dream. JuJu Smith-Schuster not even in the top 5.

Dalvin Cook over Fournette - not really a surprise to me, Cook is the more complete back and has every bit the ability to take over a game that Fournette has.


Cam Robinson listed at OG (behind Forrest Lamp). Mayock being bold here, not even saying Robinson is a RT, he's just putting him right in with the Guards. He has Ramcyzk and Bolles 1 & 2.

Sidney Jones the top corner. Mostly have been seeing Humphrey and Lattimore as the #1 corner in this class, in some order.
Apologies for the link - Here is the correct one:  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 12:34 pm : link
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785722/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings
You gave us a BBI Link  
Big Blue '56 : 2/14/2017 12:34 pm : link
😜
here you  
Big Blue '56 : 2/14/2017 12:35 pm : link
go
Link - ( New Window )
HERE IS THE CORRECT ONE.  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 12:35 pm : link
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785722/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings
I mean damn.  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 12:36 pm : link
third time is the charm?
RE: I mean damn.  
Big Blue '56 : 2/14/2017 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13360780 allstarjim said:
Quote:
third time is the charm?


👍👍👍
Jones is my top CB  
est1986 : 2/14/2017 12:48 pm : link
I wouldnt mind him at 23.
Robinson not listed at OT  
The_Boss : 2/14/2017 12:49 pm : link
In a weak OL crop is a major indictment on Robinson. Wow.
Couple names jump out  
area junc : 2/14/2017 1:07 pm : link
G Dan Feeney.& DT Larry Ogunjobi

I'm not going to say Feeney's Snee, but he is Snee-like. If we could land him in the 2nd round I'd be ecstatic. He's a Giants OL.

Ogunjobi was been wowing people

Could these by our 2nd and 3rd rounders?
RE: Robinson not listed at OT  
Beer Man : 2/14/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13360805 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In a weak OL crop is a major indictment on Robinson. Wow.
He refers to him as a "Road Grader". Take him at 23, put he and Flowers on the right side and hope two wrongs make a great "Right". Or maybe not.
RE: RE: Robinson not listed at OT  
est1986 : 2/14/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13360842 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13360805 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In a weak OL crop is a major indictment on Robinson. Wow.

He refers to him as a "Road Grader". Take him at 23, put he and Flowers on the right side and hope two wrongs make a great "Right". Or maybe not.


Then we sure as shit better sign a LEFT TACKLE.
The QB rankings are crazy  
Patrick77 : 2/14/2017 1:23 pm : link
Kizer has the tools.
Watson has the success
Trubisky has the potential.
The other two are spread gimmick offense QBs.

Horrible class.
Here's a fanspeak mock I did using Draftek  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 1:55 pm : link
as the big board:

Rd 1, 23: Garett Bolles, OT, Utah - As the fake GM of the Giants, I can't keep kicking the can down the road at LT. I think Bolles and Ramczyk are the two best bets at being anchor, franchise LT's in this draft. After these guys, it really drops off. Eli deserves and needs the LT spot to be occupied by a premium player with premium production. This pick and mock is already very odd because players like Njoku, Malik McDowell, Derek Barnett, Marlon Humphrey, and Marshon Lattimore are all still on the board. Given that information, my pick of Bolles may seem crazy. But I'm putting a very high premium on the LT position here, and getting a franchise player at this position is becoming increasingly rare in the NFL. I feel that when you have a chance, you have to strike. I think Bolles is a long-term, superb starter at LT in the NFL, and this solves one of this biggest problems holding the Giants' offense back.

Rd 2, 55: Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson - Even with my belief that the offense needs significant help, I think the Giants bring back JPP and lets Hankins walk, necessitating another good player to step in next to Snacks on the interior. Enter Carlos Watkins, who has proved himself on the biggest stage against the best college football has to offer. Watkins had 10.5 sacks last season and 13.5 TFL's. RB D'onta Foreman, as well as TE's like Evan Engram, Bucky Hodges, and Jordan Leggett were also still on the board, but I passed. For me, this is a BPA pick and ensures the defense stays loaded with talent.

Rd 3, pick 87: Jordan Leggett, Clemson - Suprisingly still here in the third! I'm one that doesn't believe TE is in major need of an upgrade, and I somewhat cringe here as I have not addressed two major needs I believe this team has, the biggest at WR and also at RB... but Leggett is too good to pass up in the third. I also think he can split wide, and his ball skills and YAC ability give the Giants another sorely needed difference maker in the passing game. RB Wayne Gallman, WR Zay Jones, WR Isaiah Ford, and OG Dan Feeney were other temptations here.

Rd 4, pick 140: ArDarius Stewart, Alabama - Punishment by the NFL has us at the back of the line in the 4th, which prevented me from taking RB Alvin Kamara, but oh well. I was impressed with Stewart's game breaking ability this past season. He's an explosive player, although not exactly the prototype I was looking for at 6'1", but I think he is too good of a player to pass up on. He has really good speed and is physical enough to play outside. He needs to answer some questions about the overall refinement of his game, but the tools here are very, very good. WR Josh Reynolds was on the board, who is more of the big prototype receiver I covet for the Giants, but I think Stewart is the better player with lower bust potential. OT Julie'n Davenport of Bucknell was also considered.



Not looking good at DE early  
JonC : 2/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
other than McKinley, whom probably projects better to 3-4 OLB.
Not looking good at OT either  
JonC : 2/14/2017 2:05 pm : link
don't force the pick.
BPA at 23 (unless a top TE slides)  
The_Boss : 2/14/2017 2:10 pm : link
Might very well be a CB, OG, or RB
Jon....  
Reb8thVA : 2/14/2017 2:19 pm : link
The other day you referenced the possibility of trading DRC for an OT were you just joking? The reason I ask is that Mayocks rankings once again highlight the slim pickings available in the draft to address the OL. A trade option is intriguing, I'm just dubious that there is a partner that would be a logical match up.
RE: BPA at 23 (unless a top TE slides)  
Patrick77 : 2/14/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13360912 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Might very well be a CB, OG, or RB


Corner or Safety is my early guess. Nothing wrong with the Giants being "forced" into picking a Corner or Safety at 23 they would have been happy picking at 10 or 20.

Worst thing they can do is reach for an OT (no great ones), TE (deep), or RB (deep). There will be someone fall that the Giants love and don't expect to be there IMO.
Reb  
JonC : 2/14/2017 2:26 pm : link
The trade was part of the DRC rumor a year ago, haven't heard anything recent about it, figured it could be drummed up again. Although, it seems DRC did what he needed to to smooth things over.
do we have a report card on Mayock  
mdc1 : 2/14/2017 2:42 pm : link
and his rankings, given we have more time to reflect back on him now?
Whoops, rest of the mock:  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 2:45 pm : link
Rd 5, 168: RB Marlon Mack, USF - Mack checks in only at about 6'0", 205, but he is a very intriguing player to me. He averaged 6.8 ypc, but mostly against the smaller schools as you might expect. That said, it's still Div I football and he still ran for almost 1200 yards and 15 TDs. One thing I noticed is he'll hold the ball out in open space like a loaf of bread, even as he's getting hit. He'll need to work on his "high and tight" at the next level. But he doesn't often go down on initial contact, has homerun ability, and I think although he's not the power back I was looking for, he is an exciting, good football player that will bring an infusion of talent to the RB corps of the team. Also considered RB James Conner, Pitt, and DT Jarron Jones, Notre Dame.

Rd 6, pick 208: OG Kareem Are, Florida State - Pronounced Arr-Ay, Are is a huge, powerful guard who carries his weight well and is a smart player that understands his assignments well. He delivers a punch in the run game, and I think has the tools to start at RG early. Needs to work on his hand work at the NFL level in pass pro, but he could be a good replacement for Jerry. Also tempted by Jamaal Williams, RB of BYU, despite taking a RB in the 5th. I think he's a Giant kind of player and would not be surprised if Reese gets him. Michigan's OG Kyle Kalis and WR Jehu Chesson other options.

Rd 7, pick 243: DT Charles Walker, Oklahoma - Look, Walker shouldn't be here, and he won't be. He's too good of a player but since he is there in my mock, I had to take him. Yes he quit on his teammates mid-season, but this is the 7th round. I almost feel stupid for taking him, because this is totally out of the realm of possibility unless something crazy happens like he gets seriously hurt before the draft or other such unexpected development.


But here's my haul, and I think if the Giants came out of this draft with these players, I'd be very excited:

OT Garett Bolles, Utah
DT Carlos Watkins, Clemson
TE Jordan Leggett, Clemson
WR ArDarius Stewart, Alabama
RB Marlon Mack, South Florida
OG Kareem Are, Florida State
DT Charles Walker, Oklahoma

What do you guys think?
Bolles  
stretch234 : 2/14/2017 2:50 pm : link
His issue is he is already 24 and will be 25 by the start of of the season. i do not see them drafting that old of a player
RE: RE: BPA at 23 (unless a top TE slides)  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13360932 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360912 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Might very well be a CB, OG, or RB



Corner or Safety is my early guess. Nothing wrong with the Giants being "forced" into picking a Corner or Safety at 23 they would have been happy picking at 10 or 20.

Worst thing they can do is reach for an OT (no great ones), TE (deep), or RB (deep). There will be someone fall that the Giants love and don't expect to be there IMO.


I haven't done my complete analysis of Ramczyk yet, but I think Bolles is a great LT prospect. I don't think you can say "no great ones," not sure that's fair. We have a long way to go in the process, but I don't think Bolles would be a force pick at 23. I think the Giants need to address LT in a definitive way, which they were hoping to do with Flowers. I wouldn't hesitate to take Bolles, it's just not a sexy pick. Sign Whitworth and I take Njoku more than likely.
RE: Bolles  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13360961 stretch234 said:
Quote:
His issue is he is already 24 and will be 25 by the start of of the season. i do not see them drafting that old of a player


That's a fair criticism but this is about giving Eli what he needs for his last few seasons in the NFL to win another Super Bowl. I don't care if I don't get 10 years of great LT play from him, 6 or 7 would be great.
RE: do we have a report card on Mayock  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13360949 mdc1 said:
Quote:
and his rankings, given we have more time to reflect back on him now?


He's consistently very good. He mocks much better than the ESPN guys and his colleagues at NFL.com.
RE: Whoops, rest of the mock:  
Milton : 2/14/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13360954 allstarjim said:
Quote:
here's my haul, and I think if the Giants came out of this draft with these players, I'd be very excited:

OT Garett Bolles, Utah
DT Carlos Watkins, Clemson
TE Jordan Leggett, Clemson
WR ArDarius Stewart, Alabama
RB Marlon Mack, South Florida
OG Kareem Are, Florida State
DT Charles Walker, Oklahoma

What do you guys think?
I like it.
Hate to be that guy but I'm gonna be that guy  
Sy'56 : 2/14/2017 3:30 pm : link
But I've been saying Cook over Fournette for months.

And I've been saying Robinson to OG for months.
RE: Hate to be that guy but I'm gonna be that guy  
Milton : 2/14/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13361006 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I've been saying Cook over Fournette for months.

And I've been saying Robinson to OG for months.
What do you think of Chad Wheeler?
RE: RE: RE: BPA at 23 (unless a top TE slides)  
Patrick77 : 2/14/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13360963 allstarjim said:
Quote:



I haven't done my complete analysis of Ramczyk yet, but I think Bolles is a great LT prospect. I don't think you can say "no great ones," not sure that's fair. We have a long way to go in the process, but I don't think Bolles would be a force pick at 23. I think the Giants need to address LT in a definitive way, which they were hoping to do with Flowers. I wouldn't hesitate to take Bolles, it's just not a sexy pick. Sign Whitworth and I take Njoku more than likely.


I will defer to you on the evaluation of the OTs, I'm just going by what I read. Seems like there is no clear cut top guy or plug and play starter but could be I am not digging into it much. Whitworth if signed allows the Giants to really focus BPA. They always focus on BPA but with them placing guys in rows I would imagine if they need a LT at draft time and Bolles is borderline in that row or the next row of players they would take him over a guy who fell that they had rated above everyone else.

As for Njoku, if he is there at 23 I think there is almost no way they aren't taking him. Njoku should blow up the combine. Sy has him as his 7th rated prospect. I'm not as high on him, but my cynical view is that TEs with his athleticism almost always get drafted high deservedly or drafted too high based on potential. The kid should be a receiving weapon and redzone threat from day one. I wouldn't even burden the kid with much blocking early on - split him out a bit and force defenses to make tough choices. The guy is the answer to the Giants cover 2 problem and can take those 2-3 yard dump offs we wasted to Tye and Donnell and turn them into 5-15 yarders.
RE: Hate to be that guy but I'm gonna be that guy  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13361006 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I've been saying Cook over Fournette for months.

And I've been saying Robinson to OG for months.


Same on Cook. It was only a surprise in the context that most published pre-draft work to date has had Fournette ahead of Cook.
RE: RE: Hate to be that guy but I'm gonna be that guy  
Sy'56 : 2/14/2017 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13361015 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13361006 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


But I've been saying Cook over Fournette for months.

And I've been saying Robinson to OG for months.

What do you think of Chad Wheeler?


Just finished my report of him last week.

He is underdeveloped physically. Weak. But has some "freak" in him. Can carry more weight, fast lower body. Flexible. Has some issues with arrests and injuries.

5th-6th rounder that needs at least a year or two before he is even considered.
RE: RE: RE: RE: BPA at 23 (unless a top TE slides)  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13361017 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
In comment 13360963 allstarjim said:


Quote:





I haven't done my complete analysis of Ramczyk yet, but I think Bolles is a great LT prospect. I don't think you can say "no great ones," not sure that's fair. We have a long way to go in the process, but I don't think Bolles would be a force pick at 23. I think the Giants need to address LT in a definitive way, which they were hoping to do with Flowers. I wouldn't hesitate to take Bolles, it's just not a sexy pick. Sign Whitworth and I take Njoku more than likely.



I will defer to you on the evaluation of the OTs, I'm just going by what I read. Seems like there is no clear cut top guy or plug and play starter but could be I am not digging into it much. Whitworth if signed allows the Giants to really focus BPA. They always focus on BPA but with them placing guys in rows I would imagine if they need a LT at draft time and Bolles is borderline in that row or the next row of players they would take him over a guy who fell that they had rated above everyone else.

As for Njoku, if he is there at 23 I think there is almost no way they aren't taking him. Njoku should blow up the combine. Sy has him as his 7th rated prospect. I'm not as high on him, but my cynical view is that TEs with his athleticism almost always get drafted high deservedly or drafted too high based on potential. The kid should be a receiving weapon and redzone threat from day one. I wouldn't even burden the kid with much blocking early on - split him out a bit and force defenses to make tough choices. The guy is the answer to the Giants cover 2 problem and can take those 2-3 yard dump offs we wasted to Tye and Donnell and turn them into 5-15 yarders.


Fair point on Njoku. It just seems so much more difficult to get a LT than a quality TE. Every year good ones are drafted late. Leggett could also be the answer to the cover 2 problem, you know? I just don't know how long they can go without making a dramatic move to address the position.
Sy  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 3:47 pm : link
Since you are lurking, curious as to your take on this overall RB draft class, and how you think the Giants should address the problem.

I think the Giants need 2 RB's, one a vet FA (Lacey?) and one an injection of youthful talent in the draft. To me, I think with the other needs the team has, RB is a position in this draft in which they could address in the 4th or 5th round.

What's your take on guys like Marlon Mack and Jamaal Williams, and the Giants' approach to this position in this offseason?
Also  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 3:48 pm : link
Your take on ArDarius Stewart as a prospect and as a fit with the Giants?
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 2/14/2017 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13361030 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Since you are lurking, curious as to your take on this overall RB draft class, and how you think the Giants should address the problem.

I think the Giants need 2 RB's, one a vet FA (Lacey?) and one an injection of youthful talent in the draft. To me, I think with the other needs the team has, RB is a position in this draft in which they could address in the 4th or 5th round.

What's your take on guys like Marlon Mack and Jamaal Williams, and the Giants' approach to this position in this offseason?


My final reports on RBs are done at the end of March. But I do like this RB group, especially for teams looking to inject some youth in to the power spot which I think NYG will be doing.

Williams is a very solid option. He is pro ready from a physical standpoint, runs hard and weighs 215 ish. Most important, probably has the best ball security in this class.

Mack has upside...has a ton of long runs. 1,000+ yards three years in row behind a shaky at best OL in a shaky at best offense. That is pretty rare. He is a bit raw. Needs more discipline on small things that get exploited in the NFL, mainly all security and lane selection.

I could list you 10 backs that could fit well with NYG in addition to veteran FAs. They don't need to be too aggressive here but hey, there is a change Fournette is there at 23 and nobody can argue against taking him.
RE: Also  
Sy'56 : 2/14/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13361031 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Your take on ArDarius Stewart as a prospect and as a fit with the Giants?


I haven't done him yet. Just game notes. Love his passion and style if play. He can really run and he can be big impact after the catch. He started to take over as Alabama's top WR threat in my opinion this year. High risk high reward.
Thanks!  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 4:27 pm : link
Really looking forward to this draft. Last year, Reese really got a lot of players I liked at positions I thought they should target.

I was a big Goodson guy and they got him (practically chanting his name before the pick), and I was definitely down with Apple and thought that the CB in the first was a good way to go with Conklin off the board. I liked Shepard but would've taken Michael Thomas there, and I liked Thompson but preferred Justin Simmons at that spot, but otherwise, they really checked the boxes I was looking for up and down the draft last year, so it will be interesting if Reese attacks the draft like I think he should again (heavy emphasis on offense this time).
Only scouting reports I have seen:  
Bob in Newburgh : 2/14/2017 4:30 pm : link
Do not think any of the ranked OTs (Bolles) are NFL LT starters.
Re: bad OL class  
WillVAB : 2/14/2017 4:32 pm : link
Not every OL in this class will suck in the pros. A few will be good players. Some may even turn out to be great players. I think there's a few guys in the 3rd-5th round range who may end up being productive. Hopefully the Giants can find one.
RE: RE: Also  
adamg : 2/14/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13361052 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13361031 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Your take on ArDarius Stewart as a prospect and as a fit with the Giants?



I haven't done him yet. Just game notes. Love his passion and style if play. He can really run and he can be big impact after the catch. He started to take over as Alabama's top WR threat in my opinion this year. High risk high reward.


Is he a fourth rounder?
Allstarjim  
stretch234 : 2/14/2017 5:29 pm : link
If Bolles was a sure thing as a LT, it would be different and in reality he would not be there. He is far from that

The Njoku stuff is interesting - another year, and the same description of a guy who is an athletic freak, cause mismatches, etc, etc, He is 240lbs - he is not Kelce who is 265 and can run, he is not Gronk who is 275 and can run, he is not Olsen who is 255 and can run, he is not graham who is 265 and can run.

What does he do any differently than Everett or Engram who are both faster. Giving effort to block is just a nice way of saying he can't block

Sign Garcon or Britt and watch the middle open up

You want a TE then draft one later
RE: Allstarjim  
allstarjim : 2/14/2017 10:17 pm : link
In comment 13361158 stretch234 said:
Quote:
If Bolles was a sure thing as a LT, it would be different and in reality he would not be there. He is far from that

The Njoku stuff is interesting - another year, and the same description of a guy who is an athletic freak, cause mismatches, etc, etc, He is 240lbs - he is not Kelce who is 265 and can run, he is not Gronk who is 275 and can run, he is not Olsen who is 255 and can run, he is not graham who is 265 and can run.

What does he do any differently than Everett or Engram who are both faster. Giving effort to block is just a nice way of saying he can't block

Sign Garcon or Britt and watch the middle open up

You want a TE then draft one later


I actually agree with you on drafting a TE later where there is more value. In terms of Bolles, from what I have seen from him he looks like a technician. I think he will play LT. I don't know if I see All-Pro but I see a competent, good starter. But the thing is, these are all mocks. So you are saying if he really is a LT then he won't be there. Well, he may not be. There's a decent chance he will be off the board. But Terron Armstead, one of the best LT's in the NFL, was taken at #75 overall. Because I see a LT right now (and that eval could change), doesn't mean that he won't be there at 23, and it's all relative, right? There are going to be 2 or 3 QB's taken before our pick, certainly some DBs, probably 2 RB's, some edge rushers, probably at least two linebackers and definitely at least 2 safeties... We're easily up to 15 players or so just off the top of my head.
RE: RE: RE: Also  
Sy'56 : 2/14/2017 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13361099 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13361052 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13361031 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Your take on ArDarius Stewart as a prospect and as a fit with the Giants?



I haven't done him yet. Just game notes. Love his passion and style if play. He can really run and he can be big impact after the catch. He started to take over as Alabama's top WR threat in my opinion this year. High risk high reward.



Is he a fourth rounder?


I think 3rd
I would love to get either Ramczyk or Bolles  
PatersonPlank : 2/14/2017 11:17 pm : link
I think both will be very good.
I love Mayock  
Torrag : 2/15/2017 12:33 am : link
...but still think his 'edge rusher' position is a copout. Give them a position. He just doesn't want to get into the 4-3/3-4 debate over these guys. They don't fit in every scheme.
Give me Corey Davis  
Jimmy Googs : 2/15/2017 3:31 am : link
all day long. OBJ, Shep and Davis.

championship...
Back to the Corner