NFT: Knicks Chat: Knicks at OKC

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In comment 13362055 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13362049 Greg from LI said: Quote: In comment 13361983 dep026 said: Quote: With Brandon knight. And Alex Len isn't much of one either. Decent defensive center, zero offensive game to speak of. His shot blocking is also overrated in context with his foul rate. I don't think the Suns signed a 33 year old Chandler to a 4 year deal because he was some massive upgrade over len on offense.

they signed tyson to get aldrisge, even had him in meeting with them after he literally signed 2 hours beforehand..

but in any event, how relevant is a roster move made in July 2015 to whether Len is a good or bad player in February 2017?

In comment 13361935 Deej said:

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is starting to strike me as a bit of a red flag against Lonzo. Granted, I dont know anything about him personally. But there is a lot of talk/flash from that family. I prefer my NBA stars to be silent, deadly types.

They sound like a nightmare. He'll be gone by the Knicks pick and I'm glad to be honest. I'd love to be able to root against him.

In comment 13362076 Deej said:

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but in any event, how relevant is a roster move made in July 2015 to whether Len is a good or bad player in February 2017?

i think signing thson stunted len, he should been the starting center and kept with their young team..

hornacek had them playing well with 2 point guards and the morris twins and they were young..

then they win 48 games and all of a sudden they try to go vets

says the Knicks may look to dump players since they are in a playoff race. PJ Tucker for a first here we come!

In comment 13362090 DanMetroMan said:

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says the Knicks may look to dump players since they are in a playoff race. PJ Tucker for a first here we come!

Wait "dump" players or trade for players?

May not. Not just Melo. But not trade off pieces at all. Battle for a playoff spot. Wonderful.

In comment 13362090 DanMetroMan said:

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says the Knicks may look to dump players since they are in a playoff race. PJ Tucker for a first here we come!

huh?

Right now the Knicks are sitting in the 9th. I think they drop off to about 5th before the lottery. If they do, even if they don't move up, I think at least one of those guys if not both will be available. Fultz and Ball are almost certainly two of the top three. I'll bet someone else in the top 5 likes Markkanen. Josh Jackson is likely top 5 as well, and perhaps Monk.

may just hold onto the guys they have and "go to war". Thus my PJ Tucker comment. Try and make the playoffs as if that has big value.

He was always a stiff.

they try to add a defensive wing player, if they lose they start dumping players...

i would dump either way...

i do like though that willy and kp seem to be the starting front court from here on out

Otherwise Phil needs to go. This team is 10 games under .500 with 26 games to go. Wave the white flag.

In comment 13362095 DanMetroMan said:

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May not. Not just Melo. But not trade off pieces at all. Battle for a playoff spot. Wonderful.

Fucking always living for the now NY Knicks.

becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there.

But if they bring players in instead of selling players for picks, I give up.

In comment 13362098 Greg from LI said:

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Right now the Knicks are sitting in the 9th. I think they drop off to about 5th before the lottery. If they do, even if they don't move up, I think at least one of those guys if not both will be available. Fultz and Ball are almost certainly two of the top three. I'll bet someone else in the top 5 likes Markkanen. Josh Jackson is likely top 5 as well, and perhaps Monk.

i like bridges in the 9-10 slot

says he's never been approached with anything and Berman claims the Knicks and Cavs had one brief conversation regarding Love/Melo and never went anywhere. Sounds like we will keep the crappy roster we have. I love having to pray we DON'T add players at the deadline....

I know some don't like rooting against your favorite team, but if there was ever a night to root for a 30-point loss, tonight in OKC is the night.

In comment 13362076 Deej said:

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but in any event, how relevant is a roster move made in July 2015 to whether Len is a good or bad player in February 2017?

Because that roster move made in July 2015 is still starting (even though failed LMA signing and all) and getting the same amount of minutes even though his defense has fallen way off a cliff over the past 2 years. He's also averaging 8 ppg.

Everyone is up in arms about kristaps' foul struggles yet Len averages 1.3 more fouls than him per 36. Len doesn't look like a player you give more than 8-10 minutes a game on a good team.

In comment 13362107 Greg from LI said:

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But if they bring players in instead of selling players for picks, I give up.

if they do aomething like koq or jennings for tucker i wouldny be mad..

tucker is a free agent and has played for hornacek...

if they trade kuz or willy for a win now piece i will flip out

predicting big numbers from Rose tonight (he'll want to show off vs. Westbrook in his quest for a monster deal).

What's the point?

In comment 13362115 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13362107 Greg from LI said: Quote: But if they bring players in instead of selling players for picks, I give up. if they do aomething like koq or jennings for tucker i wouldny be mad.. tucker is a free agent and has played for hornacek... if they trade kuz or willy for a win now piece i will flip out

Why in the hell would you be okay with trading KOQ for a soon to be 32 year old pending FA PJ Tucker? That's literally giving him away.

In comment 13362112 bceagle05 said:

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I know some don't like rooting against your favorite team, but if there was ever a night to root for a 30-point loss, tonight in OKC is the night.

#InDepWeTrust

In comment 13362109 DanMetroMan said:

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says he's never been approached with anything and Berman claims the Knicks and Cavs had one brief conversation regarding Love/Melo and never went anywhere. Sounds like we will keep the crappy roster we have. I love having to pray we DON'T add players at the deadline....

Or it sounds like they are both waiting and don't want to be the one to call.

Haven't watched an MSU game this year. I do find it a bit concerning that the Spartans are having a terrible season with Bridges as their star.

In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said:

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becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there.

+1. I havent seen a ton of the PGs, but I always worry about taking the last guy in a position run.

In comment 13362131 Deej said:

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In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said: Quote: becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there. +1. I havent seen a ton of the PGs, but I always worry about taking the last guy in a position run.

Which is why the French kid scares me a bit. I'm worried we salivate over a PG and then take him just because he's the last one standing. He might be very good, just concerns me.

Junk in my book. KP&WH I understand but I'm no Kuz fan.

In comment 13362131 Deej said:

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In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said: Quote: becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there. +1. I havent seen a ton of the PGs, but I always worry about taking the last guy in a position run.

Yeah, look at GS. Now they are stuck with Curry;)

is a potential long term above average NBA player. Kuz is an energy extra guy off the bench. Nice little find but easily replaceable. If someone loved him I would move him with the quickness. I'm hopeful we are IN on Miloš Teodosić.

In comment 13362128 Greg from LI said:

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Haven't watched an MSU game this year. I do find it a bit concerning that the Spartans are having a terrible season with Bridges as their star.

That's the problem: Bridges is their star. He's not going to be a 25 ppg scorer in the league. MSU is awful this year. They were propped up by Gary Harris, Payne, Valentine, Trice and Forbes over the last 4 years. They don't have any solid seniors to show for it. Bridges is a high level 3 and D wing that gives you top notch rebounding for the 3 spot and a little play making. He's not going to carry a team but I can't pinpoint any major flaws. He checks out on defense occasionally and his attitude is questioned but he's probably one of the top 5 athletes in the draft.

His stats are more impressive but playing in the shitty-ass Pac 12, where defense is a dirty word, helps. Smith also plays for a terrible coach with mediocre at best teammates, which doesn't help him. His driving ability is elite, he can score or pass equally well, and his jump shot is pretty good, too.

In comment 13362134 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13362131 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said: Quote: becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there. +1. I havent seen a ton of the PGs, but I always worry about taking the last guy in a position run. Which is why the French kid scares me a bit. I'm worried we salivate over a PG and then take him just because he's the last one standing. He might be very good, just concerns me.

I've seen the French PG mocked above Fox on many different sites recently. I think he has a low bust rate because he can easily play the 2 guard spot if he fails at PG (not saying he will). He has a 7' wingspan, good athlete and shooting.

I probably take Fox given the two options but if you were to tell me who had a lower floor I think it would be Fox

In comment 13362136 Keith said:

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In comment 13362131 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said: Quote: becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there. +1. I havent seen a ton of the PGs, but I always worry about taking the last guy in a position run. Yeah, look at GS. Now they are stuck with Curry;)

I'd argue that Jennings ended the run

the rule of a run clearly states that once there are 2 non PG(or any position of a run) taken, the run is officially over.

In comment 13362140 Greg from LI said:

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His stats are more impressive but playing in the shitty-ass Pac 12, where defense is a dirty word, helps. Smith also plays for a terrible coach with mediocre at best teammates, which doesn't help him. His driving ability is elite, he can score or pass equally well, and his jump shot is pretty good, too.

Which is why I think you have to do your best to separate team performance with individual performance.

Fultz is the #1 pick by almost anybody at this point and the last time I saw Washington was 4 games below .500 and gets blow the fuck out everytime they play a powerhouse.

Look at Ben Simmons last year. I view Smith and bridges in the same light. It's easy to grill a guy for checking out at times but if you're a freshman and your team isn't giving you any help I can't totally blame a kid for doing so.

Yeah it is better to have a Shump than not have a Shump. But what I really care about is how good the kid can be if the pick works out, and what we think the chance of him hitting that ceiling is. I wouldnt sacrifice upside for that probability that someone's downside is playable. Especially since I think the concept of a floor is wildly over-estimated.

In comment 13362128 Greg from LI said:

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Haven't watched an MSU game this year. I do find it a bit concerning that the Spartans are having a terrible season with Bridges as their star.

he was hurt at the beginning of the year...

In comment 13362153 Deej said:

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Yeah it is better to have a Shump than not have a Shump. But what I really care about is how good the kid can be if the pick works out, and what we think the chance of him hitting that ceiling is. I wouldnt sacrifice upside for that probability that someone's downside is playable. Especially since I think the concept of a floor is wildly over-estimated.

Yeah I guess. Hezonja was labeled as the high floor guy but it really didn't work out well.

I'm just talking about translatable basketball skills. I don't see why Frenchie can't be a PG. He looks to run PnR at a high level (albeit it's Europe), he can shoot with distance and off the bounce (which was his biggest question mark), has elite size and good athleticism. He's a jack of all trades master of none type. He gives you flexibility, if you have a guy that can only play the 1 spot you can move him to the 2 (like rose).

I'm not against the French kid. He sounds passive to me if I had to state a concern.
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In comment 13362106 DanMetroMan said:

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becoming a big Josh Jackson fan if we don't land one of the PG's, of course he likely wouldn't be there when pick if the PG's aren't there.

I'm trying to ignore what Josh Jackson is doing because I'm pretty sure we're not going to sniff him come draft time.

I think Ball and Fultz are locked into the top 2. Then the next two is locked at smith and Jackson. Then I think it's Tatum, Isaac, Fox, Bridges, Frenchie, monk, Markonnen.

LSU is a crap program under Johnny Jones. Lorenzo Romar might be the most underachieving coach in NCAA history given the talent he's had.

But Bridges plays for Tom Izzo. Coaching isn't the problem, then, and he's not in a traditionally poor program. Now, people have said that MSU's talent this season is much weaker than usual, and maybe that's true. Like I said, I don't follow them. However, there was a lot of noise in the offseason that this might be MSU's best recruiting class ever.

can't account for injuries but assuming normal health I'd be pretty stunned if Simmons isn't a game changing player. He did some things I've never really seen from a kid that big. I mean Giannis is a huge 1 and Jokic is almost like a 1, but Simmons fluidity, touch, hands even on the move were pretty eye opening. Outside shot obviously will likely dictate ultimate upside but Giannis makes it work right?

In comment 13362165 Greg from LI said:

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LSU is a crap program under Johnny Jones. Lorenzo Romar might be the most underachieving coach in NCAA history given the talent he's had. But Bridges plays for Tom Izzo. Coaching isn't the problem, then, and he's not in a traditionally poor program. Now, people have said that MSU's talent this season is much weaker than usual, and maybe that's true. Like I said, I don't follow them. However, there was a lot of noise in the offseason that this might be MSU's best recruiting class ever.

When was the last time MSU relied on one and dones to carry the program?

And they're not horrible, they're going to make the tournament. They're ranked 40 in RPI which isn't horrible considering they lost the national player of the year to graduation/NBA.

Has Draymond for 4 years, Payne for 4 years, Valentine for 4 years. They got lucky Garry harris stayed an extra year. Trice and Forbes were very underrated. Same with Costello (or whatever their Italian sounding stretch 4 was named).

They were overdue for a down year eventually.

simply because they are potential elite level defenders. How nice would it be to have a PG who can stay in front of his man and even force some turnovers? Offensively, it depends on your preference. Fox is more of a slasher without a three-point shot, and the French kid can run the halfcourt offense and shoot it a little better, but lacks some athleticism.

In comment 13362180 bceagle05 said:

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simply because they are potential elite level defenders. How nice would it be to have a PG who can stay in front of his man and even force some turnovers? Offensively, it depends on your preference. Fox is more of a slasher without a three-point shot, and the French kid can run the halfcourt offense and shoot it a little better, but lacks some athleticism.

Along this vein, if we get a #1 or with one of our #2s, I would draft the most dogged defender under 6'9 available. Regardless of upside to do anything offensive. I want someone nasty. Someone who will inspire teammates to defend HARDER, lest they be ashamed that their teammate is so thoroughly outworking them.

This team straight up lacks physical toughness. You have some intense guys. Rose and Noah, certainly. KP and Melo intermittently. But so many guys shy away from contact. Melo will take contact offensive, but no on D. Reverse is true for Noah. KP isnt strong enough. Rose is worried about $$. Lee is totally unwilling to eat a foul and get to the line on a shitty close out. Even Willy I've see shy away. Knicks need a lot more sandpaper in their lineup. We dont need to play like a 1990s team, but we're very soft even for 2017.