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JPP....what should the contract be?

AnnapolisMike : 2/15/2017 3:45 pm
I know he wants Vernon numbers and I think he is gonna be close with less guaranteed money. 5 years/$80 million. $20 million signing bonus with about $40-45 million guaranteed seems reasonable to me.

Vernon was 5/85 with $20M signing and $52.5M guaranteed. JPP has 75% of the number of fingers Vernon has and an injury history. So $40-45M feels appropriate.

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It should be...  
Giants_West : 2/15/2017 3:46 pm : link
with another team
Based on talk so far  
JonC : 2/15/2017 3:48 pm : link
you're shooting high, Tex.
I'd offer him 4/52, 25 guaranteed,  
Section331 : 2/15/2017 3:50 pm : link
take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.
I might be high  
AnnapolisMike : 2/15/2017 3:54 pm : link
if so...what is reasonable in your mind. The Guaranteed money is all that ultimately matters and over how many years the bonus is prorated.
With all the cap money around the league  
Chip : 2/15/2017 3:56 pm : link
He will get more than Vernon. There will be a bidding war for his services. It was Jacksonville and us last year. This year there are lot more teams with tons of money to spend.
I"m with Giants_West  
Marty866b : 2/15/2017 3:56 pm : link
Let him walk. Risk is way greater then the reward.IMO,better chance he gets injured then playing up to a huge contract.
I think we need to keep in mind  
EddieNYG : 2/15/2017 4:00 pm : link
That JPP has only come out and said that he doesn't want to play on a one year deal. He wants a long term contract.

The reports that he wants a similar contract to OV is purely speculation on the parts of the media who report that.

OV is 3 years younger. JPP is coming off another season where he battled injuries and he doesn't have all his fingers. Yes, he proved he can compete at a high level, but the injury history and firework accident will affect his long term contract demands.
Eddie....what number would you place on him?  
AnnapolisMike : 2/15/2017 4:03 pm : link
.
FIRST and FINAL  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 4:06 pm : link
4 years 60 million (guarantee 25 mil over the first two years)
5 yrs/$75M with $35M gtd  
giants#1 : 2/15/2017 4:08 pm : link
He's older than Vernon and not as healthy, thus lower guarantees.
RE: Eddie....what number would you place on him?  
EddieNYG : 2/15/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13362081 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
.


I wouldn't go higher than $10 mil per average. And I wouldn't guarantee a lot of money either. If he continues to get hurt in the future, you want to be able to release him with minimal dead money.
RE: RE: Eddie....what number would you place on him?  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13362086 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 13362081 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


.



I wouldn't go higher than $10 mil per average. And I wouldn't guarantee a lot of money either. If he continues to get hurt in the future, you want to be able to release him with minimal dead money.


You cant sign JPP with that number even if he had ZERO FINGERS.
RE: With all the cap money around the league  
Section331 : 2/15/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13362062 Chip said:
Quote:
He will get more than Vernon. There will be a bidding war for his services. It was Jacksonville and us last year. This year there are lot more teams with tons of money to spend.


Even with increased cap, I'll be stunned if he gets more than Vernon, and good luck to the team that commits to that. 2 years older than OV, and with a not insignificant injury history (including a bad back). Don't see it happening.
4 years $60 Mill  
Rjanyg : 2/15/2017 4:19 pm : link
is about the highest I expect Reese to go.

Jacksonville will go after him. He is from Florida and would love to move back I am sure.

No bidding war if he gets tagged  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 4:25 pm : link
...
$12M per  
JonC : 2/15/2017 4:28 pm : link
pull the trigger at $13M
RE: 4 years $60 Mill  
mrvax : 2/15/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13362101 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
is about the highest I expect Reese to go.

Jacksonville will go after him. He is from Florida and would love to move back I am sure.


I'd go 4/50 with an extra $10M/4 if he plays all 16 games.
JPP  
stretch234 : 2/15/2017 4:38 pm : link
Vernons contract is 40M fully guaranteed. 12M is not guaranteed until the 2018 season.

I have said this on JPP 4-62. You give him a 22M signing bonus - larger than Vernon and you guarantee 42M - more avg guarantee per year. You could have all his guaranteed money other than SB paid in the next 2 years. Easily done. Ego is massaged as he gets highest SB for DE and highest fully guaranteed money.
JPP had like three good games  
Rflairr : 2/15/2017 4:45 pm : link
last season. Two of them against the Bears and Browns. Lets not go crazy here. He hasn't proven anything with that hand yet.
1 yr 17.5 mil tag  
rasbutant : 2/15/2017 4:46 pm : link
I actually think spotrac's estimate is good....

5 years, $73,343,765 14,668,753

Though I would like to see a 4yr deal.
Link - ( New Window )
SLAP the Tag on him!  
Stan in LA : 2/15/2017 4:47 pm : link
Then negotiate.
A non-exclusive tag would be 12 Million  
Stan in LA : 2/15/2017 4:58 pm : link
Not 17.
Do people not understand JPP > OV?  
chuckydee9 : 2/15/2017 4:58 pm : link
Overall for his career and this season until he got injured in Pitsburgh game he was better than OV.. JPP is a top 5 defensive end when healthy.. I'd don't think we should pay him OV money but He is better when on the field..
4/$60M max  
Torrag : 2/15/2017 5:05 pm : link
...or here comes the tag.
RE: I'd offer him 4/52, 25 guaranteed,  
geelabee : 2/15/2017 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13362053 Section331 said:
Quote:
take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.


The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...

Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...

So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...

The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...

This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...
RE: Do people not understand JPP > OV?  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13362179 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Overall for his career and this season until he got injured in Pitsburgh game he was better than OV.. JPP is a top 5 defensive end when healthy.. I'd don't think we should pay him OV money but He is better when on the field..


You base the deal on what you are expecting to get going forward not what you've gotten years previous. OV is better than JPP going forward. He was named 2nd team All Pro and JPP was not for a reason.. ability means nothing without availability.
RE: RE: I'd offer him 4/52, 25 guaranteed,  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13362188 geelabee said:
Quote:
In comment 13362053 Section331 said:


Quote:


take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.



The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...

Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...

So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...

The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...

This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...


WRONG! the offer that was pulled off the table when he blew off his fingers was 5 years 60 million!
RE: RE: RE: I'd offer him 4/52, 25 guaranteed,  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13362192 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362188 geelabee said:


Quote:


In comment 13362053 Section331 said:


Quote:


take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.



The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...

Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...

So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...

The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...

This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...



WRONG! the offer that was pulled off the table when he blew off his fingers was 5 years 60 million!


That was when he was 25-26 years old also!
OK  
mdthedream : 2/15/2017 5:29 pm : link
I offer him 4 years 60m and a 20mill upfront. If he doesn't take it let him know he will get a franchise tag for one year. See this puts it on him to take it or play for the one year.
RE: 4/$60M max  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13362184 Torrag said:
Quote:
...or here comes the tag.


Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
correct  
mdthedream : 2/15/2017 5:32 pm : link
also makes the Giants look good seeing they offered a nice deal and its his choice.
RE: RE: 4/$60M max  
EddieNYG : 2/15/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13362207 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362184 Torrag said:


Quote:


...or here comes the tag.



Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.


If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.

I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.
RE: RE: RE: 4/$60M max  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13362215 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 13362207 est1986 said:


Quote:


In comment 13362184 Torrag said:


Quote:


...or here comes the tag.



Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.



If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.

I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.


Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?
RE: RE: Do people not understand JPP > OV?  
chuckydee9 : 2/15/2017 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13362191 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362179 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Overall for his career and this season until he got injured in Pitsburgh game he was better than OV.. JPP is a top 5 defensive end when healthy.. I'd don't think we should pay him OV money but He is better when on the field..



You base the deal on what you are expecting to get going forward not what you've gotten years previous. OV is better than JPP going forward. He was named 2nd team All Pro and JPP was not for a reason.. ability means nothing without availability.


Agreed, thats why I said we shouldn't pay him OV money but negotiations are 2 sided and from his perspective he is a better player albeit older.. so he should get at least the same kind of annual pay..
Vernon +  
Steve in South Jersey : 2/15/2017 6:10 pm : link
.
"JPP had like 3 good games last year"  
KWALL2 : 2/15/2017 6:12 pm : link
Just stop right there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 4/$60M max  
EddieNYG : 2/15/2017 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13362217 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362215 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


In comment 13362207 est1986 said:


Quote:


In comment 13362184 Torrag said:


Quote:


...or here comes the tag.



Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.



If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.

I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.



Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?
\

I don't want to lose JPP. It's a cap issue. I don't want to have two DE's making over $15 mil per.
I love these threads  
Patrick77 : 2/15/2017 6:30 pm : link
JPP is one year older than Vernon
JPP is two years older than Vernon
JPP is three years older than Vernon
JPP is 89 years old!

JPP is always injured!

JPP should play for well below market value!


At this point the "discussion" is just random viewpoints being yelled in a bar over loud music. Even a simple google search is too much to ask.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 4/$60M max  
est1986 : 2/15/2017 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13362230 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
In comment 13362217 est1986 said:


Quote:


In comment 13362215 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


In comment 13362207 est1986 said:


Quote:


In comment 13362184 Torrag said:


Quote:


...or here comes the tag.



Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.



If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.

I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.



Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?

\

I don't want to lose JPP. It's a cap issue. I don't want to have two DE's making over $15 mil per.


Ok I understand, but what if that's the case just for two or three years? No one is talking about fully guarenting JPP's whole deal.. these 4 or 5 year deals can become 2 or 3 year deals easily... If you have the money, you have to use it if you want to compete for championships.
I'd pull a Belichek  
Mendenhall : 2/15/2017 7:51 pm : link
and let him go. Guy is always injured. I'd rather let go a guy a year too soon rather than a year too late. Use the $$$ elsewhere.
5 mil 2 year  
Sec 103 : 2/15/2017 8:15 pm : link
and all the M80s you'd like.
TIOLI...
RE: No bidding war if he gets tagged  
djm : 2/15/2017 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13362126 est1986 said:
Quote:
...


You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.
RE:  
mrvax : 2/15/2017 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13362227 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Just stop right there.


It was a very dumb comment from a BBI regular. JPP played very well last year, IMO.
So many would refuse to pay JPP three million more than  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 2/16/2017 1:18 am : link
he should be paid even if it means we play less than the best players for Eli's final years. We have the cap space to pay everyone. Now 35 million under the cap plus whatever the league increases it to. Dallas goes into free agency 10 million over the cap and appeals for them to sign JPP are coming in from all over.

Injury risk? Of course, with all players. Not counting blowing up his hand as an injury, he misses five games in 2013 and four in 2016. Took almost every snap in his 12 games back with the Giants this year.

No risk, no reward
He is not worth less because he has fewer fingers  
aquidneck : 2/16/2017 1:49 am : link
He's already proven he could play with that hand. In 2016 he was a better DE than OV who made more money and has pretty much all his body parts.
4 years for $64 million  
uconngiant : 2/16/2017 1:54 am : link
with a 28 million dollar signing bonus. That is more than fair, but I have a feeling that he will get more, but the Giant's need to spend wisely
RE: RE: No bidding war if he gets tagged  
est1986 : 2/16/2017 5:34 am : link
In comment 13362332 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13362126 est1986 said:


Quote:


...



You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.


You are leaving out the fact that JPP will not sign a tag! And will have to negotiate soley with the NY Giants on a long term deal, which is why we want to tag him! We will easily have another 20 million to flex with after we tag him, plenty of room to make other moves while we wait on JPP, who will feel the heat of having to prove it all over again... Tagging him only increases our leverage.. we will tag him and then he will agree to a long term deal unless he agrees to it right away before we tag him.
RE: RE: No bidding war if he gets tagged  
est1986 : 2/16/2017 5:37 am : link
In comment 13362332 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13362126 est1986 said:


Quote:


...



You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.


We can tag him... Sign AP and a OL and still be fine. And if we don't want to wait around for him to make up his mind and we have another option we want to pursue we can pull the tag..
What did Michael Bennett just get from Hawks...  
Carson53 : 2/16/2017 8:42 am : link
well, it was 3/31, don't recall the GTD money, sounds about
right to me. I am not breaking the bank for JPP.
They have another DT to try and sign and other needs.
RE: RE: RE: No bidding war if he gets tagged  
Carson53 : 2/16/2017 8:43 am : link
In comment 13362551 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362332 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 13362126 est1986 said:


Quote:


...



You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.



We can tag him... Sign AP and a OL and still be fine. And if we don't want to wait around for him to make up his mind and we have another option we want to pursue we can pull the tag..


I highly doubt they tag him again.
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