I know he wants Vernon numbers and I think he is gonna be close with less guaranteed money. 5 years/$80 million. $20 million signing bonus with about $40-45 million guaranteed seems reasonable to me.
Vernon was 5/85 with $20M signing and $52.5M guaranteed. JPP has 75% of the number of fingers Vernon has and an injury history. So $40-45M feels appropriate.
The reports that he wants a similar contract to OV is purely speculation on the parts of the media who report that.
OV is 3 years younger. JPP is coming off another season where he battled injuries and he doesn't have all his fingers. Yes, he proved he can compete at a high level, but the injury history and firework accident will affect his long term contract demands.
I wouldn't go higher than $10 mil per average. And I wouldn't guarantee a lot of money either. If he continues to get hurt in the future, you want to be able to release him with minimal dead money.
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I wouldn't go higher than $10 mil per average. And I wouldn't guarantee a lot of money either. If he continues to get hurt in the future, you want to be able to release him with minimal dead money.
You cant sign JPP with that number even if he had ZERO FINGERS.
Even with increased cap, I'll be stunned if he gets more than Vernon, and good luck to the team that commits to that. 2 years older than OV, and with a not insignificant injury history (including a bad back). Don't see it happening.
Jacksonville will go after him. He is from Florida and would love to move back I am sure.
Jacksonville will go after him. He is from Florida and would love to move back I am sure.
I'd go 4/50 with an extra $10M/4 if he plays all 16 games.
I have said this on JPP 4-62. You give him a 22M signing bonus - larger than Vernon and you guarantee 42M - more avg guarantee per year. You could have all his guaranteed money other than SB paid in the next 2 years. Easily done. Ego is massaged as he gets highest SB for DE and highest fully guaranteed money.
5 years, $73,343,765 14,668,753
Though I would like to see a 4yr deal.
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The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...
Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...
So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...
The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...
This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...
You base the deal on what you are expecting to get going forward not what you've gotten years previous. OV is better than JPP going forward. He was named 2nd team All Pro and JPP was not for a reason.. ability means nothing without availability.
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take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.
The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...
Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...
So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...
The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...
This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...
WRONG! the offer that was pulled off the table when he blew off his fingers was 5 years 60 million!
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In comment 13362053 Section331 said:
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take it or leave it. He'll probably get more on the open market, but is he willing to chance it? If so, move on.
The last contract offer before he blew his fingers off was 4 year 60 million...no way the Giants go less...I believe the last contract is the starting point for negotiations...
Unfortunately the complication here is the Vernon contract...at 5 years 85 million...Vernon an inferior player is getting $17 million....JPP last contract was for $15 million...no way will anybody play for less then somebody on the same team that clearly they are better then...bottom line ask opposing OL...who is the more difficult assignment...JPP or Vernon...yes Vernon is good...but JPP is longer...has prototypical size...a much tougher assignment then Vernon period...most OL facing both will tell you that...
So based on the above...Reece must offer JPP $17.5-$18 million...the question with JPP is he is older and durability and ability to finish the contract...so based on that a valid argument can be made that 5 years may be risky...unless there is a performance based kicker that would be available unless he shows that he is durable and continues to perform...so what the Giants should do is offer a 3 year contract with 3/5 of the guarantee that Vernon got or $31.5 million guarantee vs $52 million for Vernon...
The incentive kickers are as follows...in year #2 of the contract...if JPP were to start at least 14 games started a 4th year at $18 million...same with year #3...JPP would need a minimum of 14 games and a minimum sack number hypotheticaLLY 10 sacks...then a 5th year would automatically be guaranteed...
This is how the contract should be structured...a win win for both sides...you pay the better player more money on an annual basis...and the Giants get a measure of protection whereby they can get out of the contract or renegotiate at a lower price...if JPP can't stay on the field and his performance drops...
WRONG! the offer that was pulled off the table when he blew off his fingers was 5 years 60 million!
That was when he was 25-26 years old also!
Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
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...or here comes the tag.
Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.
I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.
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In comment 13362184 Torrag said:
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...or here comes the tag.
Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.
I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.
Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?
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Overall for his career and this season until he got injured in Pitsburgh game he was better than OV.. JPP is a top 5 defensive end when healthy.. I'd don't think we should pay him OV money but He is better when on the field..
You base the deal on what you are expecting to get going forward not what you've gotten years previous. OV is better than JPP going forward. He was named 2nd team All Pro and JPP was not for a reason.. ability means nothing without availability.
Agreed, thats why I said we shouldn't pay him OV money but negotiations are 2 sided and from his perspective he is a better player albeit older.. so he should get at least the same kind of annual pay..
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In comment 13362207 est1986 said:
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In comment 13362184 Torrag said:
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...or here comes the tag.
Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.
I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.
Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?
I don't want to lose JPP. It's a cap issue. I don't want to have two DE's making over $15 mil per.
JPP is two years older than Vernon
JPP is three years older than Vernon
JPP is 89 years old!
JPP is always injured!
JPP should play for well below market value!
At this point the "discussion" is just random viewpoints being yelled in a bar over loud music. Even a simple google search is too much to ask.
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In comment 13362215 EddieNYG said:
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In comment 13362207 est1986 said:
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In comment 13362184 Torrag said:
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...or here comes the tag.
Agreed and then you tell him he can sign that 4/60 whenever he is ready or play on that one year deal which we all know he won't. As long as the offer isn't a EddieNYG offer (just messin') which would be a slap in the face, JPP isn't going anywhere.
If you want to re-sign him with no problems than offering him $15 mil per year will do the trick.
I wouldn't offer more than $10 mil per year. Let him test free agency and see what he can get.
Safe to say you would show him the door then, right...?
\
I don't want to lose JPP. It's a cap issue. I don't want to have two DE's making over $15 mil per.
Ok I understand, but what if that's the case just for two or three years? No one is talking about fully guarenting JPP's whole deal.. these 4 or 5 year deals can become 2 or 3 year deals easily... If you have the money, you have to use it if you want to compete for championships.
TIOLI...
You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.
It was a very dumb comment from a BBI regular. JPP played very well last year, IMO.
Injury risk? Of course, with all players. Not counting blowing up his hand as an injury, he misses five games in 2013 and four in 2016. Took almost every snap in his 12 games back with the Giants this year.
No risk, no reward
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You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.
You are leaving out the fact that JPP will not sign a tag! And will have to negotiate soley with the NY Giants on a long term deal, which is why we want to tag him! We will easily have another 20 million to flex with after we tag him, plenty of room to make other moves while we wait on JPP, who will feel the heat of having to prove it all over again... Tagging him only increases our leverage.. we will tag him and then he will agree to a long term deal unless he agrees to it right away before we tag him.
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You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.
We can tag him... Sign AP and a OL and still be fine. And if we don't want to wait around for him to make up his mind and we have another option we want to pursue we can pull the tag..
right to me. I am not breaking the bank for JPP.
They have another DT to try and sign and other needs.
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In comment 13362126 est1986 said:
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You keep saying this but leave out the grotesque 17 mil cap hit for one lousy season.
We can tag him... Sign AP and a OL and still be fine. And if we don't want to wait around for him to make up his mind and we have another option we want to pursue we can pull the tag..
I highly doubt they tag him again.