NFT: Knicks: has Phil really been bad?

From showing legit progress if the staff could do more good than bad. He had a great draft with KP and Gomez. A few decent FA pickups and one bad contract with Noah. Chandler trade wasn't good. Missed on grant. Holiday/Rose move was ok. His personnel moves overall are ok not great not terrible. We have all our picks. Where phil gets a big fat F is in his PR. He's come across as aloof, weird, arrogant, confrontational to his own and unlikeable. While he hasn't hurt the long term plan in terms of team building He has not helped change the culture. If anything he's enabled the Media to hate and has fostered a dark and clouded atmosphere. In short the guy is complete asshole.

Maybe trade an oquinn for a first rounder in this next draft, which is loaded. Nail these two (or one) picks and then get the fuck out of here, phil.

The pr thing I can live with. Substance over style.

He's made Dolan heel... with his aloof nature. If he can get something for Melo with his no trade I will believe he will be on his way to getting this team through a terribly hard rebuild in an impossible market to do so.

Do without the PR issues but it's not a huge deal either. I am a Melo fan but I want to trade him. The future of this team is by with Melo. The NTC is a pain. It I can't imagine he doesn't has some significant trade value still. I feel better about the future of this then I have in a long time. Especially if we can land a high lottery pick in the upcoming draft

I don't think he has done well running the organization. Things like how he handled the Rose AWOL situation, his cryptic Tweets, going through four coaches already he just seems to be a little in over his head at running an organization. He was a great coach but I'm afraid it's looking more and more like he can't make a Riley type of transition to the next level. When he was hired he talked a lot about his coming in and changing the losing culture of the Knicks organization and so far he has failed miserably at that task. That was supposed to be his strength so if he fails at that I don't see his value to the organization.

I will say the best thing he has done is that it appears he has been able to keep Dolan from involving himself in any basketball decisions. I was very excited when they hired Jackson and I'm still hoping I'm wrong and he turns this thing around but at this point I'm just am not impressed.

And what he has done for Dolan is become the owner's insurance policy to deflect criticism away from JD. Jax lost Spike, who represents the Royalty of Knicks following, Count that 12 million a year as an insurance premium. What he's done is lose a bunch of games. While doing so he has drafted 2 players whom you can build around; two guys who can be winning players five years from now. That's not insignificant . But it's not nearly enough. He is still on the job so he has time. He can make a couple of moves this month, maybe a big one. But to date, sorry: D-

coaching jobs with huge talent in place working for legendary GMs.

it hasn't improved by much. You had to know going in this wasn't going to be a 2-3 year thing, but so far the future is less bright than I would have hoped.

Still, in good cap shape, picks intact, and two promising young players one of whom could be the younger superstar this franchise has been looking to add since Ewing left.

who's always injured and Jennings, who like Rose can't play d. But drafting Porzingis was gold and drafting Willie after the 1st round was another good move. So, I'll say he's not as good as his strongest supporters think and not as bad as his strongest detractors think.

As for assessing his tenure, I've done that a million times on threads. But big picture I dont give him very much credit for keeping the #1s moving forward. Fact is that Phil told us several times that he expected the team to be competitive. First year and this year. Made moves to get us competitive this year. That's a huge issue for me. Because we suck. And it was very obvious that Rose and Noah were bad acquisitions. Yet Phil chased them, expending long term cap space and Rolo in the process.

To answer the question, has he been bad? No, IMO. Comparing anything he has done to the Layden's and Thomas' tenures would be so far off. Those teams were tied to over the hill stars that were on long term contracts that we couldn't get rid of with no young players, picks or future in sight. Those GM's were bad.

If you asked, has he been good? No, IMO. He's done well getting 2 seemingly young building blocks, but none of his moves have really worked out that well. I get the Rose move and I would do it again(without signing Noah). None of his trades have really been bad, but not many have really worked out.

This team has a future and the next week will really help clear up what it can look like. I will wait to see what he does with this light at the end of the tunnel and if we do things the right way moving forward.

INCOMPLETE

He hasn't tied an anchor around the neck of the franchise down the line. That alone makes him better than Thomas or Layden. Not actually good, but not unspeakably bad.

In comment 13362687 Greg from LI said:

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He hasn't tied an anchor around the neck of the franchise down the line. That alone makes him better than Thomas or Layden. Not actually good, but not unspeakably bad.

Noah could be a bit of an anchor. And he gave up on a #1 pick after 1 season. Obviously you're allowed to update your scouting on a player, but it's relevant to the whole "kept all the picks" narrative.

to build for long term. Jackson has been the worst yet.

In comment 13362366 djm said:

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From showing legit progress if the staff could do more good than bad. He had a great draft with KP and Gomez. A few decent FA pickups and one bad contract with Noah. Chandler trade wasn't good. Missed on grant. Holiday/Rose move was ok. His personnel moves overall are ok not great not terrible. We have all our picks. Where phil gets a big fat F is in his PR. He's come across as aloof, weird, arrogant, confrontational to his own and unlikeable. While he hasn't hurt the long term plan in terms of team building He has not helped change the culture. If anything he's enabled the Media to hate and has fostered a dark and clouded atmosphere. In short the guy is complete asshole.

yep

In comment 13362741 Victor in CT said:

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to build for long term. Jackson has been the worst yet.

rose is signed long term?

knicks have 2 young pieces, they have 3 picks coming up in an awesome draft, their future is not as bleak as you make it out to be...

plus whatever assets they get from selling off the vets on this team, they could have a yoing team of homegrown guys next year..

really not as bad as you are making it out to be

But not insurmountable.

If he trades picks in an attempt to eke out a 8th seed, however, he's dead to me.

He's been great. In context of any NBA GM, awful. You want to give him credit for KP and Willy, fine he's a good scout. As a manager, it's important to be able to assess the skills of your employees.

While any normal GM would've recognized this was a dumpster fire and blown it up years ago, phil somehow is seeing a borderline contender. Neil olshey has 2 budding stars and recognizes being a game out of the 8th seed doesn't mean shit when you're 5 games below .500. The Knicks are 4 games out of the 8 seed and 11 games below .500 and Phil thinks he's a PJ tucker away from something amazing.

In comment 13362752 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13362741 Victor in CT said: Quote: to build for long term. Jackson has been the worst yet. rose is signed long term? knicks have 2 young pieces, they have 3 picks coming up in an awesome draft, their future is not as bleak as you make it out to be... plus whatever assets they get from selling off the vets on this team, they could have a yoing team of homegrown guys next year.. really not as bad as you are making it out to be

I din't say he was signed long term. but you don't trade for guys like him when you are trying to build for long term.

It's worse than the record even.

In comment 13362770 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 13362752 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13362741 Victor in CT said: Quote: to build for long term. Jackson has been the worst yet. rose is signed long term? knicks have 2 young pieces, they have 3 picks coming up in an awesome draft, their future is not as bleak as you make it out to be... plus whatever assets they get from selling off the vets on this team, they could have a yoing team of homegrown guys next year.. really not as bad as you are making it out to be I din't say he was signed long term. but you don't trade for guys like him when you are trying to build for long term. It's worse than the record even.

do you forget they got a young piece in holiday and a 2nd round pick in deal? it is not like he gave up picks and young guys

Isn't anything.

he got rid of Lopez - who is a bad contract now.
He got rid of grant - who is a D-league player.

He tried to hit a home run with Rose, it didnt work, but he isnt tied to him anymore. I still say he re-signs in NY, especially if Melo is traded in the offseason.

Sometimes getting rid of excess is better than nothing.

isn't even a blip on the radar for this franchise. Both good or bad. It's nothing. It means nothing. IT was a temp move that didn't help or hurt the team. Holiday is a JAG. He can fill a roll off the bench but he's easily replaceable, even if he is a viable bench player.

In comment 13362754 Greg from LI said:

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But not insurmountable. If he trades picks in an attempt to eke out a 8th seed, however, he's dead to me.

There's no way the Knicks do that. They are a sinking ship right now. One win against the Spurs won't change that.

making him out to be. First off, yes, he tried to build a good team last offseason because he thought that would help KP's growth, but he didn't give away any picks or young players to do it and that was in the offseason. It's also easily unwound.

He has to know that there is no "bolstering" this crew and that we need to sell off as many pieces as possible. I see no way we re-sign Rose unless he gets 10M per season which isn't happening. If we do trade pieces to add players, I will be on board with the anti-Phil crew, but there has been no indication that will happen.

In comment 13362787 dep026 said:

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he got rid of Lopez - who is a bad contract now.

Lopez's contract has positive value. It's somewhat of a bargain in a league where Noah and Mozgov and Mahimi are on 4 year, 60+mm deals.