Is it worth it to go all out in FA and Draft this year and..

Two years + Two Super Bowls make salary cap hell in 2019 worth it

Certainly worth trading even 1 SB appearance in the next 2 seasons for a year or two 3-4 win seasons.

They will result in high draft picks, as will the first season after Eli retires.

You should never mortgage your future.

Surprisingly ridiculous. Like, I'm actually surprised this post is as ridiculous as it is. Not the fact it's ridiculous. The magnitude of the ridiculousness is what surprises me.

Use our resources to their fullest and make smart personnel decisions in both free agency and draft acquisitions and we can bring home the Lombardi Trophy....again.

the odds of winning a superbowl are not great even if you do go all out and mortgage your future bringing in lots of high priced players.

So, you most likely will do this, not win another championship and then be fucked for the next 7 years.

Plus I don't think you need to go Dream Team for the NYG to win a SB as early as next year. They are literally a just handful of players away.

In comment 13362467 EricJ said:

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the odds of winning a superbowl are not great even if you do go all out and mortgage your future bringing in lots of high priced players. So, you most likely will do this, not win another championship and then be fucked for the next 7 years.

Exactly. The assumption that spending all our resources in one shot guarantees a super bowl is nonsense.

To give him weapons like Howard Jackson Peterson and a line to protect him?

last two or three years. They've somehow come up with five of their D starters on 1st or 2nd team All Pro, plus starter Eli Apple on all-rookie team. And this doesn't include JPP, possibly the best of them all.

No one knows how long it will take to replace Eli with a QB talented and experienced enough to take the team to the big dance. Look at the proud 49er franchise and the mess they have gotten into over their quarterback situation.

When you've still got your QB, put the best players out there and go for it. This defense will have scattered by the time they find Eli's replacement.

Anyway, don't want to disappoint anyone, but the Giants have the cap space to sign JPP and Hankins and add a couple of free agents. They're 35 million under now plus another three if they release Thomas plus whatever increase the league hands out. And when Manning leaves he takes his huge cap hit with him.

to take advantage of the last few years of Eli without sabotaging the future. Signing a guy like Zeitler for top dollar and maybe some veterans on short deals (Whitworth), coupled with playmakers in the draft would be the blueprint I think.

is mostly underrated unless you have an extremely high amount of space. Most teams can always make things work by switching around bonus money, making cuts, etc.

In comment 13362524 ryanmkeane said:

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is mostly underrated unless you have an extremely high amount of space. Most teams can always make things work by switching around bonus money, making cuts, etc.

Overrated* i meant to say

2019: 103 million
2020: 156 million

Where is this cap hell that you speak of? We should have 40 million in cap after we cut JT, Vereen and extend Pugh. We are fine, we are even better going forward for years to come as you see above. ALL IN.

What does that even mean, anymore?

Every year, we are told Dallas is in cap hell and the just seems to go on its merry way.

No matter what we do...When Eli retires, that is a ton of cap savings.

Chemistry is important for the Giants and won't bring in someone who will disrupt the team.....That is not winning strategy. Brandon Marshall might have a reputation but it always seem when team is sucking.... I am sure the possibility of a ring will get him focused.

Giants should Go for it!!!! But getting the right players is key.

And the cap restriction is overrated.

business. Go all out in FA & Draft. Secure talent. The Cap is an elastic, almost mythic number. It is an accounting device. To have and save (for a rainy day?) loads of cap space is perplexing and perhaps psychotic. There are seasons when you have to get younger. Those usually mean you spend less. But the Giants have much to do this off-season. They must re-sign existing players, add a quality free agent from another team and , as usual, use the Draft to elevate the overall talent level of the team.

Let me know when you think there is a season when they shouldn't go all out to win. Not to say that spending does necessarily equate to winning but not spending is the very definition of losing. That's what Coughlin's last three seasons were about . Not spending . And, please, no Belichick pronouncements. There are no Belichicks working for the Giants, in any capacity .

ways the cap is a myth

if you bring in productive players who can help you on the field then spend away.

I agree, to an extent, the cap is abstract, but then it's not. guaranteed money is guaranteed money no matter how mythical you want it to be. It never magically goes away.

The point is though if you're spending the big dough and bringing in Geoff Schwsrtz and Albert Haynesworth then I'll say no it's not worth it.

But I find it hard for anyone to come to a decision this past seasons spending spree on Jenkins Vernon and Snacks wasn't 100% worth it and more.

If this off-season Reese adds more impact players and hits HR's and the team remains reasonably healthy the Giants have a better chance than not of contending.

So to recap, it's not the spending that hurts in a vacuum, it's spending on the wrong players that hurts.

In comment 13362556 RetroJint said:

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business. Go all out in FA & Draft. Secure talent. The Cap is an elastic, almost mythic number. It is an accounting device. To have and save (for a rainy day?) loads of cap space is perplexing and perhaps psychotic. There are seasons when you have to get younger. Those usually mean you spend less. But the Giants have much to do this off-season. They must re-sign existing players, add a quality free agent from another team and , as usual, use the Draft to elevate the overall talent level of the team. Let me know when you think there is a season when they shouldn't go all out to win. Not to say that spending does necessarily equate to winning but not spending is the very definition of losing. That's what Coughlin's last three seasons were about . Not spending . And, please, no Belichick pronouncements. There are no Belichicks working for the Giants, in any capacity .

Not spending? How do you figure the Giants weren't spending the last three years of Coughlin's tenure when they were up against the cap limit in each of those seasons?

you are making about ten unsupported assumptions, 'if we do this, such and such will result (x each payer you mentioned) but such and such might happen X all above)'

its not really all that interesting as a result, for myself.

those players tend old, no proof it adds up to a team that functions, and where has your D gone? Its all very silly.

you are starting down the road to Dolansville, don't go there.

In comment 13362622 idiotsavant said:

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you are starting down the road to Dolansville, don't go there.

+1

Cheap to spend a nickel to prop up the TE position or find a vet FB on a 1-year contract to cover for an injured one?

Post Week 1 signings.

Donnell could have been replaced at any time. We all knew he wasn't going to contribute.

Johnson/Whitlock was a gaping hole in the offense that could not run half of the plays in the playbook.

Why did the Giants choose to underspend the cap In 2016?

In comment 13362622 idiotsavant said:

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you are starting down the road to Dolansville, don't go there.

why would you have to pay big bucks for old players? Giants championship teams always had older veteran free agents back to Sam Madison, RW McQuarters, Rocky Bernard, and others.

and losing draft picks in a trade up has helped the Giants as often as it's hurt - they traded up for Landon Collins, you'd do that again in a heartbeat wouldn't you? But proabbly not the Ramses Barden trade up.

No one approach is a blanket always works or always fails approach, it boils down to scouting and value.

Scouting means you need to get the right players to fit in your system and locker room and value means you pay them at the right level for their production.

if it means older players on short-term deals that makes sense, if it means targeting a player and trading up, again that makes sense.

in addition, no line and all the older former star wide outs and aging former star RBs in the world wont help.

draft the O. Its time for that, get over it, Manning is getting old and its time to reload youthful offensive players via the draft for long term, even if it means no run next year.

In comment 13362664 idiotsavant said:

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in addition, no line and all the older former star wide outs and aging former star RBs in the world wont help. draft the O. Its time for that, get over it, Manning is getting old and its time to reload youthful offensive players via the draft for long term, even if it means no run next year.

well regardless of what she said, I fully expect the Giants to be aggressive this year.

and that doesn't mean restructuring contracts kicking the can down the road or losing draft picks without careful consideration, it's about building a contender.

even without us even fixing the OL., its obviously because they mostly want a quick cash infusion before they retire, which is just simply not a good plan.

Remember, the team has a long history, not all the fans are old farts who want a 'run' before they get senile, the team has a future fan base as well. kids. and draftees serve them best.

came to the Knicks for big money, got a 'knee' sat on the bench for 3 years, then left and had more career?

I am not a BB fan, but one gets used that way.

In comment 13362667 idiotsavant said:

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even without us even fixing the OL., its obviously because they mostly want a quick cash infusion before they retire, which is just simply not a good plan. Remember, the team has a long history, not all the fans are old farts who want a 'run' before they get senile, the team has a future fan base as well. kids. and draftees serve them best.

Simply not true. at this stage in their careers, many veterans, especially those who have been paid like Peterson and Marshall, want a ring.

Now, I'm not delusional to think the Giants would or should be near the top of their list, but they made the playoffs last year with an anemic offense. The OL has to be fixed, that's not a debate, so I don't think it's one or the other.

Get a guys like Marshall or fix the OL, I think both could and should happen (not necessarily Marshall but a veteran WR).

oh wait............

just plain stupid.

that this team, with the O line that exists here right now, coupled with our current O schemes wont get them anywhere close to a ring.

it would be about the money.

right now (Spagnulo is proven) for Marshal and aging OL players ....needs their 'bumps felt.'

Sullivan simply aint proven - whatsoever, and yet the D is playing lights out.

If you could afford to do both and not loose draft picks? ok but don't expect the O improve as much as is implied.

use the draft on O to buy time while you figure out O staff and schemes. and to put transitional pieces in place for the transition years.

Otherwise, you will have all these aging free agents retire just when manning retires, which might leave younger fans with years of mediocrity.

its not a sound policy

sensing that Romo was getting more and more dinged up, they went and drafted and built the holy fuching crap out of the O line.

Then Prescott looked like a magic draft steal as a result.


Think people, think. This is all coming sooner than you think.

is not nearly as bad as the defense was a year ago. We literally had guys off the street starting for us on defense..it wasn't an NFL defense. The FA signings were not only justified, but basically they had to be done.

On offense, we need an upgraded OL, and a playmaker at TE. Shouldn't be too expensive to fix.

In comment 13362685 idiotsavant said:

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right now (Spagnulo is proven) for Marshal and aging OL players ....needs their 'bumps felt.' Sullivan simply aint proven - whatsoever, and yet the D is playing lights out. If you could afford to do both and not loose draft picks? ok but don't expect the O improve as much as is implied. use the draft on O to buy time while you figure out O staff and schemes. and to put transitional pieces in place for the transition years. Otherwise, you will have all these aging free agents retire just when manning retires, which might leave younger fans with years of mediocrity.

WTF are you talking about? Who is trading DRC? I'm re-signing JPP if it's up to me, but Hankins is probably a casualty.

Where did anyone say get rid of DRC and Let JPP go?

and also keep the D intact with the same pool of free agent money.

use dollars from an existing roster player for a player from another team.

Hank I would not 'trade' (FA cash ) for any of :

"Signing guys like Peterson,Desean Jackson, Whitworth, even a guy like Brandon Marshall."

nope. not at this time in this team as currently constructed nor in that stage of their careers.

that is, drafting guards and etc high in the draft, i.e. build for the future. add a few specialists like TE, WR, RB late and mid rounds, and weather the storm.

otherwise, what will you have when ''Guys like Peterson,Desean Jackson, Whitworth, even a guy like Brandon Marshall.'

all retire right when Eli retires and there is ALSO no OLine to boot? AND you lost your D to pay for it?

You would have a crap team that is what you would have.

is 33 years old before free agency starts.

Adrian Peterson 32.

How much do you think these guys are going to get?

If anyone gets released with their signing it would be Vereen, so save another 3.75M.

And I took Marshall and Peterson to be examples, not necessarily the only options. The Giants have around 32M in space right now, figure if they cut JT Thomas they have 35M.

Brandon Marshall would be at or under 5M on the cap IMO.

Peterson i'm not that interested in unless he's cheap as I've said, a lot of wear on those tires.

Whitworth is 35 years old. How much do 35 year old OL make?

I think he could also be around $5M on the cap.

that leaves $25M on the cap for JPP, the rookies, and another mid-range FA.

So that adds Brandon Marshall, Andrew Whitworth, retains JPP, signs the draft picks and leaves room for another guy like Jared Cook.

Nice off-season if they draft well.

consider, you never develop or find guys like totally unknown Victor Cruz, who carried the WR unit for years on his back, if you are giving all the reps to aging about to retire, expensive veterans playing behind a crap O line.

as currently comprised, with a few additions, stands a better chance of winning a championship over the next couple of years than the team would with the next QB over the next 5 if it continues to build up via the draft and younger FA acquisitions.

I don't like the idea of possibly compromising the future, and I think Eli is better than he's looked the past couple of years. If we continue to build the team the right way and address some holes, I think we could end up winning it all in the next 2-3 years just as easily if we pushed all the chips to the middle and sold out for a bunch of older players who we'd have to pay the piper for after.

In comment 13362739 idiotsavant said:

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consider, you never develop or find guys like totally unknown Victor Cruz, who carried the WR unit for years on his back, if you are giving all the reps to aging about to retire, expensive veterans playing behind a crap O line.

So your plan is not to take advantage of Eli's remaining competent years by signing proven veterans that can help the team win. today.

So you don't miss the once-in-a-Giants-lifetime UDFA signing of the next Victor Cruz.

Makes sense.

but he never carried the entire WR corps on his back...that's a ridiculous assertion.

''Granted, he didn’t score a single touchdown in 2013 and he averaged just under seven per season in his (first?) four years in the NFL.''

sportjourney.com

in addition, early cruz was obviously affordable as well.

cruz was a windfall whose unexpected, unplanned, unforeseen position on the team kept it from falling down a cliff when nicks fried out early

who paid dividends at OLT during a run or two

give the draft and the UDFA and the player development process a chance people.

one gets younger players, less injured, less expensive, and maintains a teams core identity a touch more as they develop 'here'

as it relates to our current team needs as stated by BBI right now:

better OL players and an outside WR to compliment the wr unit:

''From Mike Florio of PFT:

“There’s been no deterioration of [mannings] arm strength, there’s been no lack of preparation and effort,” Gilbride said on NBCSN's Pro Football Talk yesterday. “I think he’s going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line. They certainly made a move to do that by bringing in three interior offensive linemen [newhouse, jerry and whom?]and as soon as they get somebody that’s going to be productive for them as an outside receiver — Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run [and] go win for them.”

(since per joey and Dorgan ODB and Shep can be set more free on drags crossing with a outside specialist wr, possibly the problem is assuming such player need be an early rounder or aging veteran)

prime years by going all out in terms of cap and trying to keep the 2011 team together. It's easy to say in hindsight that was a mistake. Had we broken down the team and rebuilt it, we could be looking at glory years right now. But that's hindsight.

Going forward, I would never gamble our ability a couple of years down the road for a year or two now. Someone mentioned Dallas. They gambled hard on Romo. Romo's body let them down big time. they got LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY in finding Dak in a lower round. If you want to go the Dallas route, stay competitive and hope you get lucky enough to find a replacement QB.

Overall, my motto is rarely mortgage the future for a possibility today. I would be aggressive in pushing the line, but do NOT overly mortgage the future for one or two years now.

We are in rebuilding mode for some time anyway. We're not winning any super bowls without Eli for some time, so we might as well go for broke the next few years. What are we gonna play it conservatively, come up short the next few seasons, then watch Eli retire? But since we will have cap space, we can go 8-8 without him instead of 4-12. Great.

Honestly, even if we have a year of going 4-12 after Eli retires, would that be so horrible? We would then have the pick we need to draft Eli's replacement.

In comment 13363045 Knee of Theismann said:

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We are in rebuilding mode for some time anyway. We're not winning any super bowls without Eli for some time, so we might as well go for broke the next few years. What are we gonna play it conservatively, come up short the next few seasons, then watch Eli retire? But since we will have cap space, we can go 8-8 without him instead of 4-12. Great. Honestly, even if we have a year of going 4-12 after Eli retires, would that be so horrible? We would then have the pick we need to draft Eli's replacement.

My thought exactly. We have a three year window to get it done. Do what needs to be done to field the best possible team over the next three years. You can get out of cap hell in one year if you need too.

In comment 13363045 Knee of Theismann said:

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We are in rebuilding mode for some time anyway. We're not winning any super bowls without Eli for some time, so we might as well go for broke the next few years. What are we gonna play it conservatively, come up short the next few seasons, then watch Eli retire? But since we will have cap space, we can go 8-8 without him instead of 4-12. Great. Honestly, even if we have a year of going 4-12 after Eli retires, would that be so horrible? We would then have the pick we need to draft Eli's replacement.

Absolutely agree.

The teams that have been consistently competitive in recent years...do you see them taking that approach?

Winning in the NFL is about maintaining a stable talent pipeline via the draft and wisely placed FA signings, all while remaining financially flexible (i.e. don't overpay for past production).

IMO the best thing the front office can do is to reinforce the defense and offensive line via FA (my top FA targets would be Logan Ryan, Whitworth, and resigning Hankins). Then use the draft to acquire the best players possible regardless of position.

Then this summer should be about building the strategy to best maximize the talent on the team. To me it's fairly self-evident that 2017 should be managed similarly to 2016. Play it close to the vest on offense, emphasize quality special teams play, and give opposing offenses long fields to travel against our defense. Win the turnover battle.

Basically, do what the Kansas City Chiefs do. Where we could be better though is that we have Eli and Beckham to their Smith and Kelce.

Play it that way and this is a 10-6 to 13-3 team if we stay healthy.

There's a 2 year window, that's it. You give Eli what he needs and hope he's got something left in the tank, then, life after Eli begins. Scary, dark, uncertain, life after Eli.

Beat Dallas 4 times in the regular season, bring home another Lombardi and I will venture into the future well equipped for another 5 year rebuild.

Reese is goingt o sign a BIG name FA right at the start and many people are going to he overpaid...I hope he goes and gets Whitworth. I think Paul Perkins could do VERY well behind a good OL. I think Flowers could be a dominant RT, he graded out well vs the run. If he signs Bennet too, our running game goes from the worst to the top half, that opens up the passing game...Reese...go get Whitworth and Bennet on day one of FA and we are a SB contender.

a good team but if were to build one I would use the same recipe that the NE Patriots use because it damn sure works and the one we're using may work eventually but I need to see more before I believe it...

and certain techniques take years to master.

plus go all out for what? We don't even know what's out there to go buy.