Terrell Thomas @TerrellThomas24 4h
Best decision you'll ever make, @Giants are a first class Org and the marketing opportunities will triple in NY!!!
Adrian Peterson @AdrianPeterson
The Giants been making some interesting moves.
How many surgeries has he had recently? He is done at this stage of his career. A availability is the best ability in the NFL. I will rather have a young bull like Perine from the draft.
and if he didn't have the PR baggage I'd consider him for a couple years to pair with Perkins.
The Jets signed Ladanian Tomlinson after his worst statistical season with the Chargers at age 31 and he churned out a couple of decent years before his legs completely fell off.
There are plenty of other RB's playing productive football into their 30's. Granted, they aren't churning out 1500 yard seasons - but that isn't why you sign one anyway.
I can definitely see Peterson going somewhere next season and playing well. And if our running game sucks, fans will do what they always do - blame Jerry Reese for not signing him.
When you look at the person and player though, its just not a good fit.
like his character fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking this guy isn't a stud RB.
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
like his character fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking this guy isn't a stud RB.
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
He is far from a stud RB. He wasn't a stud right before he injured himself..At best he's a 1990 OJ Andersen at this point, which was pretty good
2014 and 2016 and in both seasons looked terrible. He was good in 2015. He's now 31, off of another surgery with over 2400 NFL carries. The chances of him being his 2015 self and not his 2016 self is pretty slim. Add in that he's a piece of shit and you have a player that the Giants shouldn't have any interest in.
but those claiming he's "done" need to take a step back. He led the NFL in rushing yds (1485) and TDs (11) in 2015 and only played in 1.5 games last season before injuring his knee. The first game was with Shaun Hill at QB and one of the few OLs worse than the Giants in front of him. The 2nd game he had Bradford at QB who had been with the team for ~2 weeks at that point.
He then had 6 carries for 22 yards (3.7 y/c) when he returned despite an even worse OL (they loss like 4 OTs to injury) and an offense that couldn't complete a pass beyond 15 yards. And his return was basically the bare minimum for what was estimated. I think he had 2 weeks of practice time before hitting the field.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see AP come back and rush for 1200+ yards next year. That's not to say he doesn't have flaws (blitz pickups suck, stone hands, beats kids), just that he can still probably crack the top 5-10 in rushing.
I like Perkins, but it is easy to overrate him. Especially given the tendency to overrate one's own players.
He looks very solid but there isn't any strong evidence that he is a game changer. Is he a threat to break off a huge run? Is a he a goal-line touchdown producing power runner? He brings a lot to the game, yes. But it would be a mistake to think "We've got Perkins, we're good."
The team needs a back to pair with Perkins, a back at least as talented as he is. Vereen is not that guy, nor is Darkwa, and I assume Rainey is gone. Vereen is the third down guy. Perkins and Vereen are proven quality, and then what? Nothing on the roster at this point in time. Darkwa is a guy that is always going to be "on the bubble". He's a fringe NFL player.
I would very much like to see the Giants pick up a strong RB, either in free agency or the draft.
I doubt AP is the guy, too much wear and tear. But the Giants need a quality back to pair with Perkins.
like his character fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking this guy isn't a stud RB.
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
He is far from a stud RB. He wasn't a stud right before he injured himself..At best he's a 1990 OJ Andersen at this point, which was pretty good
He led the entire league in rush yards and TD's in 2015.. so I don't really agree.
He was a good RB, not a stud since his 2014 injury,
that was my point..There have been many league leaders who were good RBs, not studs who averaged 4.5 YPC....He was all-world prior to 2014..Regardless, he's not what we need right now
He had a good 2013 campaign. 1266 rushing yards - 4.5 YPC. 29 receptions. Missed most of 2014. Came back in 2015 and had another big year--1485 rushing yards - 4.5 YPC and 30 receptions. Missed most of 2016.
We could do worse but to say that Peterson comes with a huge warning would be an understatement. He's a stop gap at this point but maybe, just maybe we catch lighting in a bottle and get 2 good years out of him. I'd take one. If he checked out medically and wasn't too pricey...I guess I could live with it. You're not going to get a stud young FA RB anyway...unless you love and get Lacy who himself comes with risk.
We could do worse...I guess.
RE: He was a good RB, not a stud since his 2014 injury,
that was my point..There have been many league leaders who were good RBs, not studs who averaged 4.5 YPC....He was all-world prior to 2014..Regardless, he's not what we need right now
1. How was he not a stud in 2015? He led the league in rushing yds and TDs? And that was with an awful OL and minimal production from the Vikings passing game (i.e. everyone's #1 priority was stopping AP). Bridgewater threw for a whopping 3200 yds and 14 TDs in 2015...
2. His other major injury was in 2011, after which he returned and nearly set the all time NFL rushing record with 2097 yards in 2012. He missed 2014 due to a suspension, not an injury.
Other years alluded to he was good to very good..Perhaps it's semantics, but stud vs good/very good is a clear delineation for me..It's ok if my stud definition doesn't coincide with other fans' takes..
Thomas would definitely know how the Giants treat guys who are
He still sees himself as a top dog. Are you willing to commit around 10 million dollars to an ageing, often injured running back? Why is Minnesota not bringing him back? We need to resign JPP, Hankins, Robinson etc. The team should invest that salary cap on a veteran LT and/or a competent guard.
You are not getting the AP of five years ago. Besides, we don't need that kind of inflated ego in our team.
PASS!
That is not a JR move anyway.
after that Jennings video posted the other day with a gaping hole
You bring him in and work him out, it's not difficult to test his numbers and compare them to what the team uses as a base line for RBs. I don't trust anyone here to evaluate his play or physical ability after that long layoff, I do trust our scouting staff to do that though.
You bring him in and work him out, it's not difficult to test his numbers and compare them to what the team uses as a base line for RBs. I don't trust anyone here to evaluate his play or physical ability after that long layoff, I do trust our scouting staff to do that though.
At this point I'd say no. Too many other expenses to outlay for O improvement. If DE/DT were settled, we'd have a better read..What exactly do people think he'd settle for at this point? 7 per? 8? 5 or 6? And would it be worth it given the fixes that await? Of course only the Giants can properly evaluate him, that's a given for any position..4 mill or what RJ was slated to make? Perhaps, but is it realistic from his POV and ego?
Fix the OL, or nobody does any better than Rashad Jennings did last year, even AP.
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
Fix the OL, or nobody does any better than Rashad Jennings did last year, even AP.
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
I don't really agree. Perkins did better than Jennings since he actually can create room for himself. Jennings simply reached the point of his career where he ran out of gas.
Not every good RB is behind a good OL. Just look at Jordan Howard who had a higher YPC than Elliot behind a far inferior OL.
We need youth at RB, we see it almost everywhere else across the league.
Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
Haha, he's fresh? I'm guessing his agent is hoping to use that to pull a fast one in negotiations.
Him being hurt last year suggests he's more likely to get hurt this year.
Key to remember is that vision is the most important element for an aging RB, and a highly underrated skill for RBs in general.
I guess you could call vision, the "route running" parallel from WR to RB. You get a guy like Jerry Rice who is not even top 10 all time in the 40 for a WR, and maybe there were 5 other WRs who had better hands...but nobody ran routes better, and knew how to get RAC based on skill alone. Put it all together and he was the GOAT, even post SF.
So when evaluating an RBs ability to navigate through a wall, pound for pound factoring in strength and speed, it's all about patience and vision:
Top 3 of last 5 years in that category are:
Petersen
Gore
Bell
Gore doing decent in Indy. Very few RBs will be as good as he is at his current age (33 going on 34), if they're even in the league at all by then. Lynch was done at 30, Charles at 31 not sure where he stands...
Based on that Petersen should be pretty good on a lot of teams. He's still got decent breakaway speed. Just need to put him on a team that won't have 8-9 in the box all the time if you want legit production from him.
Of all the current stud RBs, I envision Bell having the longest career at a high level of production.
You bring him in and work him out, it's not difficult to test his numbers and compare them to what the team uses as a base line for RBs. I don't trust anyone here to evaluate his play or physical ability after that long layoff, I do trust our scouting staff to do that though.
At this point I'd say no. Too many other expenses to outlay for O improvement. If DE/DT were settled, we'd have a better read..What exactly do people think he'd settle for at this point? 7 per? 8? 5 or 6? And would it be worth it given the fixes that await? Of course only the Giants can properly evaluate him, that's a given for any position..4 mill or what RJ was slated to make? Perhaps, but is it realistic from his POV and ego?
I like you man, but I don't care that you say no, it's not up to you. If he's released and the team works him out, what's the harm? You always back everything this team does, why do you flip on that now if we did in theory bring him in? WOuld you then stop trusting the almighty brass you worship or would you change your tune and think it's an OK idea to work him out?
He doesn't need to carry the load. They have Perkins as well who would make a nice combo with him. They can load up on the OL and get a new TE and watch how this offense would make a leap just like the defense did last season.
Fix the OL, or nobody does any better than Rashad Jennings did last year, even AP.
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
This is false bc perkins did better than jennings. If your statement was true jennings was unjustly cut
And totally appreciate that he's trying to help but I'd much rather have a fresh legged late draft pick than an old beat up AP who's running on fumes. This is a very rich RB class, they should be able to get someone like James Connor, Brian Hill or Donnel Pumphrey in around the 5th round.
Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
A-There was doubt when we signed OV, doubt when we signed Snacks, doubt when we signed JackRabbit...
B-I think we will have 40 million to play with... we can do it, so lets do it.
Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
A-There was doubt when we signed OV, doubt when we signed Snacks, doubt when we signed JackRabbit...
B-I think we will have 40 million to play with... we can do it, so lets do it.
There was NO DOUBT when they signed those players who are significantly younger than AP and had no injury history, unlike AP..Apples and oranges..
We're not talking about the doubt concerning ANY FA who gets huge contracts, that's a given..The Giants had no doubts as to their playing ability then and for years in the future..There has to be plenty of doubt with AP's injury history and that he was injured for VIRTUALLY all of last year..
I would be shocked if they signed him at any price, given that he's a child abuser and they were left with egg on their faces relative to Josh Brown
And totally appreciate that he's trying to help but I'd much rather have a fresh legged late draft pick than an old beat up AP who's running on fumes. This is a very rich RB class, they should be able to get someone like James Connor, Brian Hill or Donnel Pumphrey in around the 5th round.
The odds of a fifth rd pick being anywhere near as good as AP next year are slim to none. They are slimmer than slim to none when you consider the Giants are a team that will have a legit shot to win it all next yr.
I am very much in the camp that wants a FA RB to be signed year. I woulnd't object to a premium draft pick being used on a RB but I just want a ready made NFL RB to replace Jennings.
Spending FA money on a RB and then drafting one high seems crazy but I would be thrilled. Let Perkins prove everyone wrong and emerge over the two hot RBs. Fine with me...I just want to be sure we finally have a bad ass RB on this team. Actually you need two anyway. And you could then release Vereen if you say signed Peterson and drafted a guy like McCaffery. BBI would implode...let it.
And totally appreciate that he's trying to help but I'd much rather have a fresh legged late draft pick than an old beat up AP who's running on fumes. This is a very rich RB class, they should be able to get someone like James Connor, Brian Hill or Donnel Pumphrey in around the 5th round.
The odds of a fifth rd pick being anywhere near as good as AP next year are slim to none. They are slimmer than slim to none when you consider the Giants are a team that will have a legit shot to win it all next yr.
Slimmer than none, really? So a broken down 32 year old, coming off of a catastrophic injury who wasn't playing well be before the injury is guaranteed to be better than a 22 year old with fresh legs in a deep RB class.
it might be worth thinking about but he is looking to get paid and they need to sort out that mess of an OL before they look for a running back which they should have done instead of picking wilson a few years ago
thats before you consider the injury prone and reduced output of peterson last couple of years but it might pull the safety out of double high to defend him thou which could pen things up for OBJ and shepard so its not a totally deft idea altogether
This place never stops amazing me..
The Jets signed Ladanian Tomlinson after his worst statistical season with the Chargers at age 31 and he churned out a couple of decent years before his legs completely fell off.
There are plenty of other RB's playing productive football into their 30's. Granted, they aren't churning out 1500 yard seasons - but that isn't why you sign one anyway.
I can definitely see Peterson going somewhere next season and playing well. And if our running game sucks, fans will do what they always do - blame Jerry Reese for not signing him.
When you look at the person and player though, its just not a good fit.
- OJ Anderson
2880 carres.
Only 3 games missed.
For a player at that position, thats pretty insane.
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
He is far from a stud RB. He wasn't a stud right before he injured himself..At best he's a 1990 OJ Andersen at this point, which was pretty good
He then had 6 carries for 22 yards (3.7 y/c) when he returned despite an even worse OL (they loss like 4 OTs to injury) and an offense that couldn't complete a pass beyond 15 yards. And his return was basically the bare minimum for what was estimated. I think he had 2 weeks of practice time before hitting the field.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see AP come back and rush for 1200+ yards next year. That's not to say he doesn't have flaws (blitz pickups suck, stone hands, beats kids), just that he can still probably crack the top 5-10 in rushing.
He looks very solid but there isn't any strong evidence that he is a game changer. Is he a threat to break off a huge run? Is a he a goal-line touchdown producing power runner? He brings a lot to the game, yes. But it would be a mistake to think "We've got Perkins, we're good."
The team needs a back to pair with Perkins, a back at least as talented as he is. Vereen is not that guy, nor is Darkwa, and I assume Rainey is gone. Vereen is the third down guy. Perkins and Vereen are proven quality, and then what? Nothing on the roster at this point in time. Darkwa is a guy that is always going to be "on the bubble". He's a fringe NFL player.
I would very much like to see the Giants pick up a strong RB, either in free agency or the draft.
I doubt AP is the guy, too much wear and tear. But the Giants need a quality back to pair with Perkins.
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like his character fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking this guy isn't a stud RB.
Part of what frustrated the Giants O was a 6 on 6 situation getting stuffed in the run game with both S's back. The back has a lot of room to create in that situation. A.P. knows how to beat that look and he's used to running behind poor offensive lines
He is far from a stud RB. He wasn't a stud right before he injured himself..At best he's a 1990 OJ Andersen at this point, which was pretty good
He led the entire league in rush yards and TD's in 2015.. so I don't really agree.
We could do worse but to say that Peterson comes with a huge warning would be an understatement. He's a stop gap at this point but maybe, just maybe we catch lighting in a bottle and get 2 good years out of him. I'd take one. If he checked out medically and wasn't too pricey...I guess I could live with it. You're not going to get a stud young FA RB anyway...unless you love and get Lacy who himself comes with risk.
We could do worse...I guess.
1. How was he not a stud in 2015? He led the league in rushing yds and TDs? And that was with an awful OL and minimal production from the Vikings passing game (i.e. everyone's #1 priority was stopping AP). Bridgewater threw for a whopping 3200 yds and 14 TDs in 2015...
2. His other major injury was in 2011, after which he returned and nearly set the all time NFL rushing record with 2097 yards in 2012. He missed 2014 due to a suspension, not an injury.
You guys really wouldn't want to at least see? Jesus Christ.
You are not getting the AP of five years ago. Besides, we don't need that kind of inflated ego in our team.
PASS!
That is not a JR move anyway.
If not for the PR and Josh Brown, I'd agree with you.
At this point I'd say no. Too many other expenses to outlay for O improvement. If DE/DT were settled, we'd have a better read..What exactly do people think he'd settle for at this point? 7 per? 8? 5 or 6? And would it be worth it given the fixes that await? Of course only the Giants can properly evaluate him, that's a given for any position..4 mill or what RJ was slated to make? Perhaps, but is it realistic from his POV and ego?
You guys really wouldn't want to at least see? Jesus Christ.
It kills me man..
No... He's retired and been retired for some time now..
Now that I think of it, he was inducted into the Hall of Fame..
Work him out and see what he's got, but got to think his recent troubles combined with the Josh Brown fiasco might be a non-starter for the team.
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
I don't really agree. Perkins did better than Jennings since he actually can create room for himself. Jennings simply reached the point of his career where he ran out of gas.
Not every good RB is behind a good OL. Just look at Jordan Howard who had a higher YPC than Elliot behind a far inferior OL.
We need youth at RB, we see it almost everywhere else across the league.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
Haha, he's fresh? I'm guessing his agent is hoping to use that to pull a fast one in negotiations.
Him being hurt last year suggests he's more likely to get hurt this year.
This place never stops amazing me..
LOL.
In addition to the child abuse strike.
Key to remember is that vision is the most important element for an aging RB, and a highly underrated skill for RBs in general.
I guess you could call vision, the "route running" parallel from WR to RB. You get a guy like Jerry Rice who is not even top 10 all time in the 40 for a WR, and maybe there were 5 other WRs who had better hands...but nobody ran routes better, and knew how to get RAC based on skill alone. Put it all together and he was the GOAT, even post SF.
So when evaluating an RBs ability to navigate through a wall, pound for pound factoring in strength and speed, it's all about patience and vision:
Top 3 of last 5 years in that category are:
Petersen
Gore
Bell
Gore doing decent in Indy. Very few RBs will be as good as he is at his current age (33 going on 34), if they're even in the league at all by then. Lynch was done at 30, Charles at 31 not sure where he stands...
Based on that Petersen should be pretty good on a lot of teams. He's still got decent breakaway speed. Just need to put him on a team that won't have 8-9 in the box all the time if you want legit production from him.
Of all the current stud RBs, I envision Bell having the longest career at a high level of production.
In addition to the child abuse strike.
A proper WCO shouldn't be out of the gun that much, and even less running from it.
Falcons offense in 2016: lowest percentage of shotgun snaps overall. Interesting correlation with being the #1 offense.
Shotgun got way overused in recent years. It is to under center what passing became to running the ball 10 years ago.
A regression to the old mean will hopefully become fashionable again.
If you're gonna run a lot of shotgun, then the zone read needs to be a staple of the offense.
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You bring him in and work him out, it's not difficult to test his numbers and compare them to what the team uses as a base line for RBs. I don't trust anyone here to evaluate his play or physical ability after that long layoff, I do trust our scouting staff to do that though.
At this point I'd say no. Too many other expenses to outlay for O improvement. If DE/DT were settled, we'd have a better read..What exactly do people think he'd settle for at this point? 7 per? 8? 5 or 6? And would it be worth it given the fixes that await? Of course only the Giants can properly evaluate him, that's a given for any position..4 mill or what RJ was slated to make? Perhaps, but is it realistic from his POV and ego?
Only possibility allowing it would be to get the best WR, TE, and blocking FB available, FA or draft.Even at that it'd only be to mask a poor OL.
This is false bc perkins did better than jennings. If your statement was true jennings was unjustly cut
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Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
A-There was doubt when we signed OV, doubt when we signed Snacks, doubt when we signed JackRabbit...
B-I think we will have 40 million to play with... we can do it, so lets do it.
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In comment 13363061 est1986 said:
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Would not be our best running back since Tiki is shitting themselves. Him being hurt last year means he's fresh. We are talking about one of the most gifted RB's ever, he can play at a high level still, no doubt.
A-There IS a doubt
B-How much do you take away from adding important pieces by signing him to far above the vet league minimum?
A-There was doubt when we signed OV, doubt when we signed Snacks, doubt when we signed JackRabbit...
B-I think we will have 40 million to play with... we can do it, so lets do it.
There was NO DOUBT when they signed those players who are significantly younger than AP and had no injury history, unlike AP..Apples and oranges..
We're not talking about the doubt concerning ANY FA who gets huge contracts, that's a given..The Giants had no doubts as to their playing ability then and for years in the future..There has to be plenty of doubt with AP's injury history and that he was injured for VIRTUALLY all of last year..
I would be shocked if they signed him at any price, given that he's a child abuser and they were left with egg on their faces relative to Josh Brown
The odds of a fifth rd pick being anywhere near as good as AP next year are slim to none. They are slimmer than slim to none when you consider the Giants are a team that will have a legit shot to win it all next yr.
Spending FA money on a RB and then drafting one high seems crazy but I would be thrilled. Let Perkins prove everyone wrong and emerge over the two hot RBs. Fine with me...I just want to be sure we finally have a bad ass RB on this team. Actually you need two anyway. And you could then release Vereen if you say signed Peterson and drafted a guy like McCaffery. BBI would implode...let it.
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And totally appreciate that he's trying to help but I'd much rather have a fresh legged late draft pick than an old beat up AP who's running on fumes. This is a very rich RB class, they should be able to get someone like James Connor, Brian Hill or Donnel Pumphrey in around the 5th round.
The odds of a fifth rd pick being anywhere near as good as AP next year are slim to none. They are slimmer than slim to none when you consider the Giants are a team that will have a legit shot to win it all next yr.
Slimmer than none, really? So a broken down 32 year old, coming off of a catastrophic injury who wasn't playing well be before the injury is guaranteed to be better than a 22 year old with fresh legs in a deep RB class.
thats before you consider the injury prone and reduced output of peterson last couple of years but it might pull the safety out of double high to defend him thou which could pen things up for OBJ and shepard so its not a totally deft idea altogether
& I don't we'll get him on the cheap. He probably wants one last fat contract.