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NFT: Knicks Chat: We stink

DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 9:34 am
-KP was reportedly ill (he played an awful game)

-Jennings reportedly achillies soreness

-Leonard 22 and 5

-Undertaker with another double-double, 11 and 10... +32 for the game!

-Vucevic 16 and 10 in 28 minutes

-Super Mario 8 points 1 rebound 1 assist, 25 minutes... he's not exactly a stat sheet filler...


-Saric 20 and 11, 9-18 from the field, 1 block 1 steal averaging 21 and 7 over his last 5 games, 53/37 shooting

-Smart 21 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 8 steals... wow. He's been excellent in a starting role recently.

-Kaminsky 27, 5 and 3, 11-18

-Maker 4 and 4 in 14 minutes

-Giannis 33 points, 9 boards, 3 assists, 4 steals

-Suddenly relevant Michael Beasley 7-9 shooting, 14 and 3 in 22 minutes

-Lopez 36... and 4

-Dirk 24 and 10

-Marc Gasol 15 points, 12 boards, 9 assists

-Harden 38, 12 and 12

-Wiggins 40, 4 and 2 on 15-26. Kid can flat out score the basketball. Last 5 games...33.6 points 4.4 boards 3.2 assists on 57/46... BEAST MODE.

-Towns 24 and 19

-Jokic 15 points, 14 boards 4 assists 1 steal 4 blocks

-Hayward 22, 6 and 7

-Ingram... 1-7 from the field 3 points, 2 boards... had a few nice games, last 3 however 4-17 from the field, 9 rebounds over 86 minutes of play...

-Chriss 15 and 8, 2 blocks, 2 steals
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Another notable  
Deej : 2/16/2017 9:38 am : link
Nurkic 13 points (5-5; 3-4) 7 reb, 3 steal, 1 assist, 1 block in 21 minute POR debut
You're  
AcidTest : 2/16/2017 9:39 am : link
being too kind.

I'd rather be a Sixers fan right now.

Knicks are the Jets.
Kevin O'Conner (the Ringer) on the state of the East  
Deej : 2/16/2017 9:47 am : link
worthwhile read. Suggests a Melo-Thomas pick and roll could work well for Boston in the playoffs. But the pull quote is:

Quote:
The shelving of Okafor was likely meant to flush out the best offers around the league, sources speculate. Its not uncommon for teams to use leaks to stir interest. The Nuggets and Blazers werent pursuing Okafor. The Bulls likely arent either. No one is buying what Bryan Colangelo is selling: a one-dimensional center who cant defend, rebound, or pass on a roster loaded with big men.
draft wise...it was a good night  
JOMO25 : 2/16/2017 9:53 am : link
We won't catch Brooklyn but only 2 games behind Orlando and Philly (with Ben Simmons coming back soon). In the west, we are nearly tied w Portland, Minny, NO and Dallas. LAL and Phoenix are unlikely. So where does that put us? Somewhere in the 4-7 range in a great draft.

Rose, Jennings, KOQ I believe are likely to be traded.

Melo far less than likely.
If philly wants any real value..  
Italianju : 2/16/2017 9:59 am : link
for Okafor they would have to include more assets then just him. He isnt bringing back much at all. I guess the hope when you draft him is that he can improve in some of the areas that people were worried about, but he hasnt. He is an absolutely horrible defensive player and for his size a horrible rebounder. His NBA value to a good team would be as a bench scorer.
RE: You're  
nygiants16 : 2/16/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13362690 AcidTest said:
Quote:
being too kind.

I'd rather be a Sixers fan right now.

Knicks are the Jets.


knicks have their draft pick, which will be a top pick, they have 2 young pieces going forward...

they have 3 picks coming in a loaded draft...

by next year they could be a young fun team
I'll do the negative side of Philly  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 10:06 am : link
1. Embiid just cant get healthy.
2. Simmons hasnt proven anything, yet....
3. Okafor was a gigantic bust.
4. They still have 0 guards on the roster worth a damn...

Now as far as potential, they definitely have it - but Minnesota had potential too and its not going as planned.
the stuff they're saying about  
Enzo : 2/16/2017 10:09 am : link
Okafar reminds me of what used to be said about Eddy Curry. Of course Curry had zero finesse to his game, but it sure seems like the results, are lack thereof, are pretty similar.
I doubt Embiid is ever healthy for too long at one time  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2017 10:11 am : link
Philly needs to nail the draft this year. They're not going to be picking as high as they have, and if Embiid continues to struggle to stay on the court then they have Simmons and a collection of nothing-special players.
RE: the stuff they're saying about  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13362731 Enzo said:
Quote:
Okafar reminds me of what used to be said about Eddy Curry. Of course Curry had zero finesse to his game, but it sure seems like the results, are lack thereof, are pretty similar.


So what you're saying is that the Knicks are going to trade two first round picks for him?

That still makes me want to throw up a decade later.
RE: RE: the stuff they're saying about  
nygiants16 : 2/16/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13362736 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13362731 Enzo said:


Quote:


Okafar reminds me of what used to be said about Eddy Curry. Of course Curry had zero finesse to his game, but it sure seems like the results, are lack thereof, are pretty similar.



So what you're saying is that the Knicks are going to trade two first round picks for him?

That still makes me want to throw up a decade later.


makes it even worse those 2 draft picks were aldridge and noah
RE: RE: the stuff they're saying about  
Joey in VA : 2/16/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13362736 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13362731 Enzo said:


Quote:


Okafar reminds me of what used to be said about Eddy Curry. Of course Curry had zero finesse to his game, but it sure seems like the results, are lack thereof, are pretty similar.



So what you're saying is that the Knicks are going to trade two first round picks for him?

That still makes me want to throw up a decade later.
THanks for the reminder. Good lord I'm not going to eat for 3 days now
Porzingis really struggled last night.  
Heisenberg : 2/16/2017 10:17 am : link
I only watched the first half, but he was a real liability. And Oladipo absolutely torched Courtney Lee.
RE: I doubt Embiid is ever healthy for too long at one time  
nygiants16 : 2/16/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13362735 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Philly needs to nail the draft this year. They're not going to be picking as high as they have, and if Embiid continues to struggle to stay on the court then they have Simmons and a collection of nothing-special players.


roght now they have an injured embiid, an injured simmons and 2 back up centers to show for "the process"

brett brown refuses to play 2 of his bigs together..

And this is new information to you?  
PatersonPlank : 2/16/2017 10:18 am : link
They have sucked for a long time
Middleton with  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 10:19 am : link
20 points and 7 assists. Just in time for a Milwaukee playof push.

College:

Future Knick Jayson Tatum: 28 points 8 boards

Future knick Dennis smith: 27 6 and 4

Future knick Luke Kennard: 16 3 and 7
Right now  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 10:21 am : link
I'd be very worried about the 76ers.

They held onto their bigs way too long. Could have traded Okafor or Noel before the season started and gotten at least something for them. Now they wont get shit. Even with Noel playing better, he is still a huge injury risk.
Jesus, dude, enough of the Dookie shit  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2017 10:22 am : link
You wanna go on about Tatum, fine, but fuck Luke Kennard. He's not going to be anything worth drafting for the next level.
Draymond  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 10:30 am : link
"When you look at what's going on now with the Melo situation in their organization and now how you do a legend in Charles Oakley, I don't know a free agent that would want to go there. I don't know someone who would really want to go there."
Way back in 1998  
Joey in VA : 2/16/2017 10:31 am : link
I was at my first job and my boss was a native NYer and huge Knick fan. I was all excited about the team with Camby and Sprewell playing big roles and he told me that as long as the Dolan's owned the Knicks they would never be good. I was about 24 and I followed sports way more closely and we debated it daily during that playoff run and his point was that corporate ownership would do enough to keep seats full and generate headlines but would never truly stomach losing long enough to really re-build. He said they would make splashy moves to generate headlines but never really build a decent team as long as tickets sold out and tickets will always sell out in NYC. I wish I could find him and tell him how very right he was.
RE: Draymond  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13362766 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
"When you look at what's going on now with the Melo situation in their organization and now how you do a legend in Charles Oakley, I don't know a free agent that would want to go there. I don't know someone who would really want to go there."


Draymond Green is a joke at this point. Tied this situation with slavery. Act like a complete shithead on the floor. He's a very good role player - but he is someone I cant stand to watch or root for.
While everyone was talking about the Oakley BS  
bceagle05 : 2/16/2017 10:37 am : link
in the aftermath of Dolan's interview with Michael Kay, the quote that really stuck with me is when Jimmy said (paraphrasing), "The fans I talk to just want to come to the Garden and see a good game." I guess that's the mission statement in a nutshell - as long as John McEnroe is entertained and the place is sold out, who cares if we're losing more games than we're winning?

It truly is just an awful franchise. The Clippers were, too, for the longest time, but they managed to stay in the lottery and draft Griffin, Jordan and the pieces necessary to make the Chris Paul trade (with an assist from David Stern). If we just stay in the lottery for a couple of years we might find our way out of this.
RE: Jesus, dude, enough of the Dookie shit  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13362751 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You wanna go on about Tatum, fine, but fuck Luke Kennard. He's not going to be anything worth drafting for the next level.


Lol.
RE: RE: You're  
AcidTest : 2/16/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13362722 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13362690 AcidTest said:


Quote:


being too kind.

I'd rather be a Sixers fan right now.

Knicks are the Jets.



knicks have their draft pick, which will be a top pick, they have 2 young pieces going forward...

they have 3 picks coming in a loaded draft...

by next year they could be a young fun team


I am not a Sixers fan. Just pointing out that their fans should be more hopeful right now. What you say is all true, but the Knicks will likely somehow mess it up.
Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 10:53 am : link
the Grizzlies are looking for a backup for Conley. A Grizzlies blogger suggested Vince Carter, Jarrell Martin and 2 2nd round picks (the Grizzlies own the Heat's 2017 2nd and Charlotte's 2018 pick) for Lou Williams. If we could even sniff that for Rose or Jennings I'd 100% pull the trigger.
A top 6 pick in this draft  
Reeses Pieces : 2/16/2017 10:54 am : link
is the way to go. I want to see them build from the ground up. Whether Porzingis is a franchise player or not he is an excellent young talent. Adding Fultz, Ball, Smith, Jackson, Fox, or Monk would certainly be a step in the right direction.
And what is also rings true now....  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 11:00 am : link
is the TWolves need to trade Lavine, even though now his value decreases big time. You cant have both Lavine/Wiggins playing with Towns.

That wing dynamic doesnt seem to work.
RE: And what is also rings true now....  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13362811 dep026 said:
Quote:
is the TWolves need to trade Lavine, even though now his value decreases big time. You cant have both Lavine/Wiggins playing with Towns.

That wing dynamic doesnt seem to work.


Yup. I can't help but think someone like Aaron Gordon would fit perfectly next to Towns. An all out defender, can hit corner 3s. You'll be able to rely on Wiggins/Towns for offense every night, just put 3 good defenders around those two and they'll be just fine.
RE: Apparently  
Deej : 2/16/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13362799 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Grizzlies are looking for a backup for Conley. A Grizzlies blogger suggested Vince Carter, Jarrell Martin and 2 2nd round picks (the Grizzlies own the Heat's 2017 2nd and Charlotte's 2018 pick) for Lou Williams. If we could even sniff that for Rose or Jennings I'd 100% pull the trigger.


Williams is more than just a backup PG. He is more valuable than Jennings. I'd take a bit less for Jennings. I'd probably be fine with the Miami #2 they own (protected this year, unprotected next).
RE: Way back in 1998  
Enzo : 2/16/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13362768 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
I was at my first job and my boss was a native NYer and huge Knick fan. I was all excited about the team with Camby and Sprewell playing big roles and he told me that as long as the Dolan's owned the Knicks they would never be good. I was about 24 and I followed sports way more closely and we debated it daily during that playoff run and his point was that corporate ownership would do enough to keep seats full and generate headlines but would never truly stomach losing long enough to really re-build. He said they would make splashy moves to generate headlines but never really build a decent team as long as tickets sold out and tickets will always sell out in NYC. I wish I could find him and tell him how very right he was.

Knicks were under corporate ownership prior to Dolan when they were a perennial contender.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 11:16 am : link
0% a Shabazz Muhammad fan but I'm surprised the Suns passed on him for PJ Tucker.
Everyone likes to shit on Ingram and Bender  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 11:27 am : link
(Me included) but Dunn has arguably been worse than those 3 and he's 3 years older.

Ugly debate, but do you take Dunn over Mudiay? Dunn has at least the makings of a good defender and if the 3 point shot comes around he could be alright. But that's a bummer. MIN thought they were landing a well-rounded PG but might end up with another Marcus smart.
RE: You're  
Elisthebest : 2/16/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13362690 AcidTest said:
Quote:
being too kind.

I'd rather be a Sixers fan right now.

Knicks are the Jets.


You're too cruel (not the Sixers comeent, the Jets one)
It's a stupid comparison anyway.  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:35 am : link
The Knicks wish they could be the Jets.
RE: RE: Way back in 1998  
Joey in VA : 2/16/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13362833 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13362768 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


I was at my first job and my boss was a native NYer and huge Knick fan. I was all excited about the team with Camby and Sprewell playing big roles and he told me that as long as the Dolan's owned the Knicks they would never be good. I was about 24 and I followed sports way more closely and we debated it daily during that playoff run and his point was that corporate ownership would do enough to keep seats full and generate headlines but would never truly stomach losing long enough to really re-build. He said they would make splashy moves to generate headlines but never really build a decent team as long as tickets sold out and tickets will always sell out in NYC. I wish I could find him and tell him how very right he was.


Knicks were under corporate ownership prior to Dolan when they were a perennial contender.
They won a title under Gulf Western in 1977 sure, but the point is modern corporate ownership in a basketball crazy town will look at $ only and not truly build to win because you can't afford to be out of the papers and not generating buzz. You can slice however you see fit but he was dead right about these idiots.
RE: RE: RE: Way back in 1998  
Enzo : 2/16/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13362886 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13362833 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13362768 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


I was at my first job and my boss was a native NYer and huge Knick fan. I was all excited about the team with Camby and Sprewell playing big roles and he told me that as long as the Dolan's owned the Knicks they would never be good. I was about 24 and I followed sports way more closely and we debated it daily during that playoff run and his point was that corporate ownership would do enough to keep seats full and generate headlines but would never truly stomach losing long enough to really re-build. He said they would make splashy moves to generate headlines but never really build a decent team as long as tickets sold out and tickets will always sell out in NYC. I wish I could find him and tell him how very right he was.


Knicks were under corporate ownership prior to Dolan when they were a perennial contender.

They won a title under Gulf Western in 1977 sure, but the point is modern corporate ownership in a basketball crazy town will look at $ only and not truly build to win because you can't afford to be out of the papers and not generating buzz. You can slice however you see fit but he was dead right about these idiots.

huh? They didn't win the title in 1977..and they weren't owned by Gulf + Western when they did win titles. Regardless, "corporate ownership" in an of itself is not always a bad thing. And having your team owned by one guy is not always a good thing. Yes, this particular owner has been awful for the Knicks, but it's been working out just fine for the Rangers.
Great to see Wiggins play well  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/16/2017 11:53 am : link
It feels like people have been down on him forever. His scoring potential has always been otherworldly, I expect a shit ton more 40 point outbursts this next decade.
RE: Great to see Wiggins play well  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13362916 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
It feels like people have been down on him forever. His scoring potential has always been otherworldly, I expect a shit ton more 40 point outbursts this next decade.


No one questioned his scoring ability. I'd still like to see him create for his teammates and play defense. He's a black hole on offense, it's just he's hitting mid range shots at an unsustainable rate right now. I don't see why he couldn't be a 5-6 apg player if he didn't look to hit a step back mid range jumper everytime he touched the ball.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 12:29 pm : link
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Porzingis doesn't set screens and just can't create his own shot. If he's not making jumpers, he is ineffective. Still a lot of work to do.
RE: .  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13362983 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
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Porzingis doesn't set screens and just can't create his own shot. If he's not making jumpers, he is ineffective. Still a lot of work to do.


He could create his shot...when he was healthy
RE: .  
Mason : 2/16/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13362983 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
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Porzingis doesn't set screens and just can't create his own shot. If he's not making jumpers, he is ineffective. Still a lot of work to do.


Porzingis' screens are a complete joked. Sometimes he doesn't even make contact with the guard and starts to run to get the ball back towards. LOL, Wally calls him out when he does the game. "Soft screens"
I don't know what people are expecting  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 12:38 pm : link
He extremely similar to Dirk at age 21 and more efficient than Love was offensively at the same age. If they were expecting the development of a rookie from age 20 to 21 to be the difference in a 32 win team and a 50 win team, I don't know what to tell you.

I've seen enough from KP when he was healthy at the start of the season to know he will make multiple all star games and be in the discussion for All NBA teams.
RE: RE: .  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13362999 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 13362983 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Alan HahnVerified account
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Porzingis doesn't set screens and just can't create his own shot. If he's not making jumpers, he is ineffective. Still a lot of work to do.



Porzingis' screens are a complete joked. Sometimes he doesn't even make contact with the guard and starts to run to get the ball back towards. LOL, Wally calls him out when he does the game. "Soft screens"


Which is why he's not a center in the NBA.
If you want to feel better about KP  
bceagle05 : 2/16/2017 12:49 pm : link
take a look at Okafor, Mudiay, Russell, Winslow, Hezonja, Kaminsky, etc. - KP and Willy are both better than most of those guys. We made out like bandits during that draft, and we can only hope and pray Phil and Co. have an encore performance during this year's draft. We desperately need it.
Oakley  
DanMetroMan : 2/16/2017 1:23 pm : link
vs. Dolan 2.0

Sports Illustrated ✔ @SInow
Charles Oakley joined our @SInowLIVE today:

'Do you consider James Dolan on that same level as a Donald Sterling?'

Oakley: 'Yes'
Oak is generous  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2017 1:32 pm : link
In some ways, he's worse than Sterling

RE: Oak is generous  
Deej : 2/16/2017 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13363126 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In some ways, he's worse than Sterling



I mean, Sterling's issue was effectively a personal matter, right? Dolan himself decided to fire Anucha Browne Sanders.
Luke Kennard?  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 1:41 pm : link
Hahahahaha. Dude is like a fringe DLeague player, if that.
RE: Luke Kennard?  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13363139 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Hahahahaha. Dude is like a fringe DLeague player, if that.


He has a desirable trait needed in the NBA.

Hell look at how long Singler has been there and he has none.
RE: RE: Luke Kennard?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/16/2017 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13363179 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13363139 B in ALB said:


Quote:


Hahahahaha. Dude is like a fringe DLeague player, if that.



He has a desirable trait needed in the NBA.

Hell look at how long Singler has been there and he has none.


If McDermott can carve out a nice rotational role I don't see why Kennard can't. Hell if buddy Hield went top 10 I would think Kennard is a fringe 1st rounder in a good draft.
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