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| In January, gathered at the Bangor Tavern Bar and Grill in Michigan, several teachers and a secretary employed by the Bangor public school system decided to play a game. The game has been played in many bars many times before, normally in the context of celebrities or popular television characters. But the faculty chose to substitute their co-workers for Chris Pratt and Khal Drogo, discussing which of their colleagues they would kill, marry or sleep with (although they used a cruder verb than that). They also made fun of their pupils in ways that one parent would later describe as “heartbreaking.” Unknown to the staff members and teachers, a nearby patron was recording the game. A six-minute video found its way to YouTube, and spread to the computer screens of Bangor parents and beyond. An attorney for the school district, Robert Huber, told Michigan Live that the teachers did not discuss having sex with students, contrary to some reports. “The false impression that was created is that teachers were talking about whether they would marry, ‘f’ or kill students,” Huber said. “There’s no truth to that at all.” Rather, the video showed three school employees naming co-workers to kill or sleep with, Huber said. The administration had known about the video for several weeks, he said; the footage showed seven Bangor employees at the bar, including four other teachers who were present but did not participate. The administrative secretary was the only participant who mentioned students, according to Huber. On Feb. 13, during a school board meeting, outrage over the contents came to a head. Parents expressed concern that the school had known about the video and asked board members to explain what they knew. “It’s disturbing to know that these are our educators,” said Jennifer Prentice, a parent in the school district, to western Michigan’s Fox 17. “They are in charge of protecting our children, keeping our children safe, and the fact that they just blew that out of the water shows their character and shows that maybe they’re not right for this job.” “It was heartbreaking,” Amanda Reprogal, who said her 15-year-old son was mentioned in the video, also told Fox 17. “My heart sank, and I was disgusted.” The only thing that wound up killed, in the end, were jobs. A few of the school employees — as of Tuesday, two teachers — have handed in resignation papers. The school secretary also resigned Monday. One school staffer, who felt the video contained threats, filed a complaint with Bangor police. Bangor’s police chief, Tommy Simpson, reviewed the footage, according to WZZM 13. The police chief did not follow up with charges but noted the school was conducting an internal assessment. Fox 17 reported that the four teachers said to have witnessed the game were given verbal reprimands. |
Fucking yuck.
I'm going to guess that the police report was filed with the idea of a lawsuit coming.
I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.
Yeah, that really stood out to me. I guess I wouldn't be too happy if I found out people I knew had me in the "kill" column, but feeling threatened? C'mon now, get a grip.
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They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?
I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.
The subjects were other teachers, not students.
They were absolutely not using students in the game. The article is crystal clear about that. (Though they apparently did mention students in some other context).
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They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?
I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.
Except it was already proven that they did NOT talk about students?
Your right to privacy in a bar?
I get that someone standing nearby could hear everything you said, but have we really reached the point where you should expect you're being recorded everywhere but your own home?
Jesus Christ, this was just a game, at a bar. People get their panties knotted up over the stupidest things.
I'm appalled that someone would record this and post it, but there a lot of assholes floating around and people have to adjust how they act in public. This sucks, but we're living in the real world and have to be aware that this is on its way to becoming the norm.
but the bigger problem is one of the mothers actually believes this.
a parent really believes teachers are in charge of protecting children and keeping them safe and someone with "bad character" may not be right for the job.
I haven't seen the tape but sounds like if recorded and gone viral, they weren't exactly keeping their voices down. Pretty stupid and they're paying the price for it.
I'm also guessing if they were exceptional teachers, they would have been reprimanded or suspended (with apologies made to those other faculty impacted). sounds like a case of mediocre faculty being let go with cause.
I'm appalled that someone would record this and post it, but there a lot of assholes floating around and people have to adjust how they act in public. This sucks, but we're living in the real world and have to be aware that this is on its way to becoming the norm.
That pretty much covers it. People do stupid things, but, in this case, a reprimand or a short suspension would be more appropriate.
I understand that you work for the taxpayers and have to be held accountable.
This, to me, is not acceptable. The person that should be facing charges is the person that secretly filmed them.
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
I understand that you work for the taxpayers and have to be held accountable.
This, to me, is not acceptable. The person that should be facing charges is the person that secretly filmed them.
What charge? Is there a law against recording people in public?
Where does it say the recording person derived sexual pleasure from taping this?
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
I thought this had been debunked above?
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
Try reading the article before posting. It was made clear they never talked about sex with students or any other minors
Fucking yuck.
Yes, someone probably should. Don't you think?
You should expect that if you get caught engaging in an innocuous, but in very poor taste, game there's going to be repercussions. It calls into question character, and somehow or other that will seep into performance evaluation. but outright firing for something that happened outside of the school property? no.
But you can't expect privacy in a bar. if it were so loud and so ongoing that someone takes the time to record it, you're probably well over the line in terms of civility and conduct.
There's a lot of job situations where you piss off the wrong person, your job is in jeopardy. teaching in a non union environment is one of them. it's nothing unique, except that the number of people you can piss off is a little larger than at a local gas station.
real stupid
On the other hand, we seems to have reached a point where privacy and the freedom from surveilence has vanished.
If they were talking about co-workers - they should not be fired.
Classic overreaction just to appease the public.
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having sex with minors?
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
Try reading the article before posting. It was made clear they never talked about sex with students or any other minors
Try eating shit pal.
I saw the video a couple days ago and it showed them saying that they'd "F so-and-so" multiple times. Was that made up or something? Is that what happened?
And if they were talking about middle school students they'd all be dead.
It's interesting to me in the sense that in the workplace, an expression of which co-worker you'd like to eff would get you a visit to HR. But the same conversation in a bar, but seen by workmates via youtube...is that the same? Clear ly context is everything.
Your reading comprehension is abhorrent. The article clearly states they weren't talking about kids
Not sure what company you work for but at mine, unless your performance has been exemplary for a decade, and even then, if you're caught doing that here they send security and a box to gather your things by EOD.
I'm anti-pussification of america too - but this is substandard behavior from educators/adults, imo.
Wrong, so I wouldn't be casting stones. The article merely says the teachers weren't talking about having sex or killing kids. The article clearly says they were making fun of various students (not game related), hence "they were talking about kids"
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an expression of which co-worker you'd like to eff would get you a visit to HR.
Not sure what company you work for but at mine, unless your performance has been exemplary for a decade, and even then, if you're caught doing that here they send security and a box to gather your things by EOD.
I haven't been caught yet anyway.
Actually, I work in a science lab. Trust me, the answer is always going to be "no one" to that question, no matter who gets asked.
I wouldn't expect you to have any standards at all, Ned.
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The article clearly states they weren't talking about kids
Wrong, so I wouldn't be casting stones. The article merely says the teachers weren't talking about having sex or killing kids. The article clearly says they were making fun of various students (not game related), hence "they were talking about kids"
I hate that bars have become this. Used to be you could go to a bar and engage in adult behaviors that children and others who were easily offended would be shielded from. Today you go into a bar and half the people in there are staring at their phones. You never know who's watching you or taking pictures of you.
As a teacher in conservative small-town Idaho I can't deal with the drama that would follow if pictures of me in a bar surfaced on social media. I bet more people are learning to avoid bars altogether. If you can't misbehave in them, what are they good for? (Just kidding - kind of)
"Play stupid gamess. Win stupid prizes."
You should expect that if you get caught engaging in an innocuous, but in very poor taste, game there's going to be repercussions. It calls into question character, and somehow or other that will seep into performance evaluation. but outright firing for something that happened outside of the school property? no.
But you can't expect privacy in a bar. if it were so loud and so ongoing that someone takes the time to record it, you're probably well over the line in terms of civility and conduct.
There's a lot of job situations where you piss off the wrong person, your job is in jeopardy. teaching in a non union environment is one of them. it's nothing unique, except that the number of people you can piss off is a little larger than at a local gas station.
I agree I do not believe they should be fired over free speech. These are the parents who say do not discipline my kids, give them all participation trophies. They were out hanging out playing a game that celebrities have all played. I can understand the relationships with some of the people they were talking about could become strained. Firing these people to me is wrong. Suspend them reprimand them. Verbal, or written reprimand to me is fine. If there is criminal charges then every celebrity who has played this game should be charged too. Did they show bad taste in this, sure they did but no way they should be fired.
I hate that bars have become this. Used to be you could go to a bar and engage in adult behaviors that children and others who were easily offended would be shielded from. Today you go into a bar and half the people in there are staring at their phones. You never know who's watching you or taking pictures of you.
As a teacher in conservative small-town Idaho I can't deal with the drama that would follow if pictures of me in a bar surfaced on social media. I bet more people are learning to avoid bars altogether. If you can't misbehave in them, what are they good for? (Just kidding - kind of)
Dan my brother-in-law lives in Hope Idaho
I wouldn't expect you to have any standards at all, Ned.
I'm sure you've never said anything crude while drinking at a bar with friends.
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The asshole is the one who engaged in voyeurism and then posted it on youtube.
Where does it say the recording person derived sexual pleasure from taping this?
Exactly. Who the hell goes to a bar and video tapes peoples private conversations? What a miserable existence
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I was referring to the video first - then the article states that one of the employees did mention kids. Regardless, juvenile and shit behavior by educators. I deal with instructors and professors every day and I would be pretty surprised that they would act this way.
I wouldn't expect you to have any standards at all, Ned.
I'm sure you've never said anything crude while drinking at a bar with friends.
Not about kids or my coworkers who I've worked with for 12 years. Sorry, but I have some respect for my peers.
This is absolutely true.
I think any of the educators or employees making fun of the students should be fired, full stop. The ones playing FMK and talking only about co-workers? I don't think that requires firing. To me, a big overreaction.
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Tedious
This is absolutely true.
I don't but we live in an age where people love to see other people fired over anything.
50 weight gear oil?
People need to get off their high horses and punishing others that have done no harm..
Let's try this a different way. If you were told that you weren't allowed to discuss your company's upcoming merger plans with anyone, but you decided to do so in a bar, while drinking, in a manner that you weren't even aware that you were being recorded, would you expect your job to be protected?
How about if your doctor was talking about your medical issues in a bar in public? It just can't be allowed.
Teachers KNOW that student information is privileged and private. You cannot discuss them, even with coworkers unless they have a legitimate school-related reason to have those discussions. Teachers may choose to violate this on their own, but they do so at their own peril.
I feel bad because a few people have shown that they think the bar gives you special privilege to act in a way that otherwise isn't accepted. This used to be true, but it isn't anymore, and people need to realize this and accept it.
I really think it would be a good idea for someone to build a franchise of bars where no personal electronic devices are allowed, so that at least one place could exist where people could feel relatively free from surveillance and recording while they socialize.
I don't think the game is that big of a deal. However, talking about students in a public settings is a breach of the children's privacy.
Do you always comment on articles without reading them?
Right. I get it - teachers get tired of their students and need to vent. The thing is, they get warned about this and they should know better.
Teachers want to be thought of as professionals, but so many of the ones I've met don't act professionally. This group didn't get it.
I'm not trying to be holier than thou. One time I was traveling on business with a coworker. We got stuck in the Cleveland airport due to a weather delay for 12 hours. Not long enough to bother going someplace else, especially in the bad weather, so we just sat and waited it out. They have a Victoria's Secret in the airport there, and we were seated across from it. We were probably over 20 hours into our day and getting very punchy. We started making fun of the people coming in and out - commenting on their body types and the lingerie they might be buying. Stupid, silly, immature humor born out of poor judgment. Thing is, we forgot, but we were still wearing our work ID's. After a while, some other traveler speaks up to us - do all the workers at your bank talk like you two?
YIKES!
Thank goodness this happened before everything public was recorded and posted online, or I can guarantee you my career would have been cut short. It was a good lesson to me. As a teacher, I'm always "on-stage" and my behavior must always be guarded.
I've also found that venting doesn't really improve situations in the long-term.
the only time I've ever seen, or heard of, it played is in cheesy movies.
How many people really play this stupid game? show of hands?
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
Um...read the article?
And a society that can't read more than two sentences of a news articles before zoning out.
Was talking to a friend with a 5 year old who was accosted by another 5 year old who 'jokingly' threatened to put a finger up his butt hole. There isn't a doubt in my mind that this is a red flag that should be reported. Some people would call that snitching.
a lot of BBI has a very playground notion about 'snitching'.
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In comment 13362910 B in ALB said:
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having sex with minors?
They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
Try reading the article before posting. It was made clear they never talked about sex with students or any other minors
Try eating shit pal.
I saw the video a couple days ago and it showed them saying that they'd "F so-and-so" multiple times. Was that made up or something? Is that what happened?
Sounds like you still haven't read the article. I merely suggested you do so, so you don't sound like such an idiot when you comment on something without having all the facts.
But sure I'll have a nice pile of shit for an afternoon snack, I'm hungry anyway
and secondly:
In summary:
The teachers were talking about co-workers, not students in regards to the game.
The SECRETARY was the only employee to mention any students. The teachers did not discuss the students.
Was talking to a friend with a 5 year old who was accosted by another 5 year old who 'jokingly' threatened to put a finger up his butt hole. There isn't a doubt in my mind that this is a red flag that should be reported. Some people would call that snitching.
a lot of BBI has a very playground notion about 'snitching'.
I tend to agree but in this case the 'snitch' went to Youtube not the Board of Education. That makes me think they recorded it for enjoyment/self-righteous reasons. Also, he/she could have told the table they were being over heard and should watch what they say. Also remember that nothing said was a crime, inappropriate yes, but not illegal.
There were two punishments in this case. One was the dismissal and reprimands. The second was the notoriety gained from the video. The first was warranted and followed due process. The second was done by a single person simply because they could. The second may be more harsh than the first as millions know of it and it will not go away. It will always be there on Youtube.
I didn't see the tape. you say you did. were the teachers talking about sex with students? or sex with co-workers?
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An attorney for the school district, Robert Huber, told Michigan Live that the teachers did not discuss having sex with students, contrary to some reports. “The false impression that was created is that teachers were talking about whether they would marry, ‘f’ or kill students,” Huber said. “There’s no truth to that at all.”
and secondly:
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The administrative secretary was the only participant who mentioned students, according to Huber.
In summary:
The teachers were talking about co-workers, not students in regards to the game.
The SECRETARY was the only employee to mention any students. The teachers did not discuss the students.
Yeah, that's an important part of this case.
As is the fact that nobody was fired either.
But even though the attorney for the school district clearly stated that no sexual comments were made about students, it was clear that at least one student was discussed. Were reprimands not in order?
He surely does. But since the video is on Youtube any false claim should be easily discovered. And if it did I doubt it would be go well for the school or the attorney.
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Do you think the school attorney has a vested interest in making that statement?
He surely does. But since the video is on Youtube any false claim should be easily discovered. And if it did I doubt it would be go well for the school or the attorney.
Exactly. The attorney for the school is not going to come out and call something blatantly false without merit, because the public has seen the video and could easily call them out on it if they were lying.
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An attorney for the school district, Robert Huber, told Michigan Live that the teachers did not discuss having sex with students, contrary to some reports. “The false impression that was created is that teachers were talking about whether they would marry, ‘f’ or kill students,” Huber said. “There’s no truth to that at all.”
and secondly:
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The administrative secretary was the only participant who mentioned students, according to Huber.
In summary:
The teachers were talking about co-workers, not students in regards to the game.
The SECRETARY was the only employee to mention any students. The teachers did not discuss the students.
Yeah, that's an important part of this case.
As is the fact that nobody was fired either.
But even though the attorney for the school district clearly stated that no sexual comments were made about students, it was clear that at least one student was discussed. Were reprimands not in order?
Two teachers, and the secretary that mentioned students, were fired.
Unless you think they willingly "resigned".
"(child's name) is cool. I would totally marry her. Plus she loves the Tigers. And she didn't even bring it up when I was wasted on the bus trip. She's cool." (nice, a teacher wasted on a bus trip)
Another teacher says, "I would totally fuck (child's name)."
Another says, "I would kill (child's name)."
Now throughout the video "(child's name)" is substituted in the captions for the a real name, presumably to protect the kid's real name - but who knows?
The person who recorded the video would have had to lie about who was being mentioned in the video in order for us to believe that they were talking about co-workers. Why would they do that? Makes no sense.
Did she say "so and so is dumb, or fat, or whatever...." Poor choice? Yes.
Or did she say "so and so is so dumb, have you seen their IEP? That dipshit has so many learning disabilities it's not even funny, and the meds they're shoving down his throat didn't help either." Fire-able offense, and probably more in line with what you mentioned in your previous posts. But even then, only the person making those comments should have been reprimanded.
Three people were fired.... so far.
The person who recorded the video would have had to lie about who was being mentioned in the video in order for us to believe that they were talking about co-workers. Why would they do that? Makes no sense.
Why would they do that? The same reason they were secretly filming and then posted the video to begin with. To get somebody in trouble/fired.
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The person who recorded the video would have had to lie about who was being mentioned in the video in order for us to believe that they were talking about co-workers. Why would they do that? Makes no sense.
Why would they do that? The same reason they were secretly filming and then posted the video to begin with. To get somebody in trouble/fired.
I just don't understand that mentality - sitting there and recording, then altering the video to the point where it changes the entire context of the conversation.
I assume the authorities saw the unaltered version of the video? Where is the statement on that?
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In comment 13363226 B in ALB said:
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The person who recorded the video would have had to lie about who was being mentioned in the video in order for us to believe that they were talking about co-workers. Why would they do that? Makes no sense.
Why would they do that? The same reason they were secretly filming and then posted the video to begin with. To get somebody in trouble/fired.
I just don't understand that mentality - sitting there and recording, then altering the video to the point where it changes the entire context of the conversation.
I assume the authorities saw the unaltered version of the video? Where is the statement on that?
I guess to understand that mentality, you'd have to understand the mentality that would drive somebody to tape a conversation and post it on youtube to begin with.
Where is that mentioned?
And is it mentioned anywhere that the attorney has in fact seen the unedited video? Or is that just a guess at this point?
I'm anti-pussification of america too - but this is substandard behavior from educators/adults, imo.
Holy shit. I can't read this thread any more.
They weren't fucking talking about children, for fuck's sake!!! They were talking about co-workers!!!
One person - a secretary, mentioned a 15-year-old student. That's all. Not the teachers.
Jesus Christ. READ, people. READ!
But someone said, if you want to do this, do it in your own home.
What if you were filmed there by an onlooker......
The privacy thing is an interesting question.
Where is that mentioned?
And is it mentioned anywhere that the attorney has in fact seen the unedited video? Or is that just a guess at this point?
That's a strong statement, from an attorney, for a guess.
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would you feel comfortable talking about kids this way?
I'm anti-pussification of america too - but this is substandard behavior from educators/adults, imo.
Holy shit. I can't read this thread any more.
They weren't fucking talking about children, for fuck's sake!!! They were talking about co-workers!!!
One person - a secretary, mentioned a 15-year-old student. That's all. Not the teachers.
Jesus Christ. READ, people. READ!
You need to read the thread and relax. Have a drink or something.
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Whoever subbed in (child's name) be on the hook for misleading authorities?
Where is that mentioned?
And is it mentioned anywhere that the attorney has in fact seen the unedited video? Or is that just a guess at this point?
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“The false impression that was created is that teachers were talking about whether they would marry, ‘f’ or kill students,” Huber said. “There’s no truth to that at all.”
That's a strong statement, from an attorney, for a guess.
Plus a woman said her 15 year old was mentioned in the video. If all names were removed how could she know?
And there is some question about the current superintendent using the school credit card to make 12 purchases of $500 at a gas station for a total of $6,000. Parents want to know what all the money was spent on. Nice school district they're running over there.
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In comment 13362978 B in ALB said:
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would you feel comfortable talking about kids this way?
I'm anti-pussification of america too - but this is substandard behavior from educators/adults, imo.
Holy shit. I can't read this thread any more.
They weren't fucking talking about children, for fuck's sake!!! They were talking about co-workers!!!
One person - a secretary, mentioned a 15-year-old student. That's all. Not the teachers.
Jesus Christ. READ, people. READ!
You need to read the thread and relax. Have a drink or something.
Like what??? COFFEE!!! lol
"Play stupid gamess. Win stupid prizes."
[/thread] [/over]
A shit sandwich, if B is ordering
Two teachers, and the secretary that mentioned students, were fired.
Unless you think they willingly "resigned".
That's not what the attorney said or the papers reported. At least not the article linked or other articles I read about.
Why would they resign? Perhaps they couldn't stand the thought of going back to work with people they had spoken so openly about. Maybe they didn't really like working there anyway. I don't know. I know a lot of people I work with are on the edge of quitting anyway, and something like this could easily push them over it.
On the other hand, we have the people who have read the EXACT SAME source with a very clear statement that three people have resigned. Those people interpreted this fact as false, as the only logical solution is that they were fired.
Same set of facts, different biases, different interpretation of facts. No wonder we can't all agree on anything.
There are alternatives, you know.
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of what actually constitutes a fact.
There are alternatives, you know.
Oh yeah. Forgot about those.
Deangelo Russel?
Other than that, I think this is ridiculous and I think the person who secretly recorded their conversation at the bar and then put it on Youtube is a terrible person, worse than any of the teachers. To ruin these teachers' careers and lives because of a harmless game they played at a bar about coworkers that has likely been played by over a million people is just reprehensible.
On the other hand, we have the people who have read the EXACT SAME source with a very clear statement that three people have resigned. Those people interpreted this fact as false, as the only logical solution is that they were fired.
Same set of facts, different biases, different interpretation of facts. No wonder we can't all agree on anything.
But if you think about 99% of teachers and administrators haven't had private conversations along the lines of "Johnny is an asshole" or "Jane needs to get her shit together", you're pretty naive.
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
Exactly. You can barely even make out the conversation.
A travesty of justice that this cost teachers their jobs.
The social media mob at it again.
I'm not a teacher, but yeah, that's simply common sense. My wife teaches fitness classes to kids, and she tells me horror stories about the bad kids all the time.
But if you think about 99% of teachers and administrators haven't had private conversations along the lines of "Johnny is an asshole" or "Jane needs to get her shit together", you're pretty naive.
Problem is people have to learn that an open group discussion in a bar isn't a private conversation. Of course teachers have private conversations, just like everyone else. The bar isn't the forum for these conversations, and we're constantly being warned about this stuff.
Especially since Facebook - teachers at first were posting their private thoughts about students online and that resulted in real trouble - so districts have been warning educators everywhere about the need to protect the privacy of students.
Haven't you had that discussion already in Michigan?
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
As for the bystanders, I don't think they were responsible to putting a stop to anything.
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on youtube if anyone cares to see it before commenting like they know it.
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
pjcas - The people present who worked with them have some responsibility. If they were on work property and time, that would be more true. It becomes difficult and unpopular to enforce fully, but employees witnessing harassment, discrimination, etc. are considered responsible to report it at the least in most institutions. The marry, F, kill game would fall under sexual harassment. Given this was in public on their own time, it becomes less of a requirement, but more of a moral obligation.
As for the bystanders, I don't think they were responsible to putting a stop to anything.
disagree completely. You (and I) are not authorities to say anyone has a moral obligation to do anything. That's called being judgmental and no one has a moral obligation to do anything.
That's what morals are, they're decided by the person, not you telling them what is right and wrong.
lastly, is it possible to sexually harass someone who isn't present?
if so, there's a lot of apologizing you should be doing to Hollywood, news "personalities" and others for commentary from others on this site. since it's your moral obligation to stop it.
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In comment 13364108 pjcas18 said:
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disagree completely. You (and I) are not authorities to say anyone has a moral obligation to do anything. That's called being judgmental and no one has a moral obligation to do anything.
That's what morals are, they're decided by the person, not you telling them what is right and wrong.
lastly, is it possible to sexually harass someone who isn't present?
if so, there's a lot of apologizing you should be doing to Hollywood, news "personalities" and others for commentary from others on this site. since it's your moral obligation to stop it.
I disagree. Morals are not part of your DNA. They are overtly taught by parents, relatives, school and clergy. They are also learned by experience and observation. So in affect society is the authority on morals.
You statement that
In the case with the teachers there was some moral obligation based on their relationship. They were co-workers and possibly friends. They felt comfortable enough with each other to share work gossip and join in a very insensitive game that they knew would not be taken lightly by their superiors. In doing so they trusted each other not to say anything to expose their game to their superiors. In affect they assumed there was a moral obligation not to snitch on each other. The moral obligation not to snitch could be be extended to include they should warn the group that the game may be over heard by strangers that then would report it.
Again, this is all predicated on the assumption that they knew they were engaged in behavior detrimental to their employment. Though I find that hard to believe.
Not because you or society tell me I have a moral obligation to stop colleagues from having a vulgar conversation. It is beyond ludicrous to find an abstaining but present party responsible in any way for not stopping this conversation based on what you think is morally right to do.
You do not get to tell me what I have a moral obligation to do or not do, and neither does society. That's between me and my maker.
and I won't get any deeper than that because the thread will get deleted.
Not because you or society tell me I have a moral obligation to stop colleagues from having a vulgar conversation. It is beyond ludicrous to find an abstaining but present party responsible in any way for not stopping this conversation based on what you think is morally right to do.
You do not get to tell me what I have a moral obligation to do or not do, and neither does society. That's between me and my maker.
and I won't get any deeper than that because the thread will get deleted.
If you want to continue the thread in a manner that is against the BBI code of conduct so it is deleted that is on you. You can always walk away, but I don't think any poster should have the right to have threads deleted simply because they don't agree.
This is not directed at you. I don't know you and I don't doubt that people who do would say you are a good man.
But whether we like it or not, if anyone does something outside the social norm people will have opinions about it. If it is far outside of the norms people will judge that person's morals. This is how society works. Positive actions get rewards, negative actions get punishment.
The person who recorded this and posted it is a dick.
The person who recorded this and posted it is a dick.
Agreed. If they were truly concerned only for the kids they would have turned the recording over to the school district. Going straight to Youtube was a just a dick move.
It's sad. One stupid mistake and it may follow them forever.
Obviously in a public space you have no presumption of privacy, but how pathetic.
When the person who posted this is inevitably outed, they deserve the massive shaming they will get.
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In comment 13364108 pjcas18 said:
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on youtube if anyone cares to see it before commenting like they know it.
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
pjcas - The people present who worked with them have some responsibility. If they were on work property and time, that would be more true. It becomes difficult and unpopular to enforce fully, but employees witnessing harassment, discrimination, etc. are considered responsible to report it at the least in most institutions. The marry, F, kill game would fall under sexual harassment. Given this was in public on their own time, it becomes less of a requirement, but more of a moral obligation.
As for the bystanders, I don't think they were responsible to putting a stop to anything.
disagree completely. You (and I) are not authorities to say anyone has a moral obligation to do anything. That's called being judgmental and no one has a moral obligation to do anything.
That's what morals are, they're decided by the person, not you telling them what is right and wrong.
lastly, is it possible to sexually harass someone who isn't present?
if so, there's a lot of apologizing you should be doing to Hollywood, news "personalities" and others for commentary from others on this site. since it's your moral obligation to stop it.
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In comment 13364410 Matt M. said:
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In comment 13364108 pjcas18 said:
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on youtube if anyone cares to see it before commenting like they know it.
And to be honest without knowing any of the people being discussed, which you can barely even hear anyway, the video is 100% meaningless.
and to Matt M, that is absolutely ridiculous to say the people present, but not participating in the conversation are responsible for not putting a stop to it.
WTF? who are you, the moral police? You think you can judge someone as a responsible participant for not stopping other grown adults from having a vulgar conversation?
I'd hate to be that self righteous. Such a high standard for yourself.
pjcas - The people present who worked with them have some responsibility. If they were on work property and time, that would be more true. It becomes difficult and unpopular to enforce fully, but employees witnessing harassment, discrimination, etc. are considered responsible to report it at the least in most institutions. The marry, F, kill game would fall under sexual harassment. Given this was in public on their own time, it becomes less of a requirement, but more of a moral obligation.
As for the bystanders, I don't think they were responsible to putting a stop to anything.
disagree completely. You (and I) are not authorities to say anyone has a moral obligation to do anything. That's called being judgmental and no one has a moral obligation to do anything.
That's what morals are, they're decided by the person, not you telling them what is right and wrong.
lastly, is it possible to sexually harass someone who isn't present?
if so, there's a lot of apologizing you should be doing to Hollywood, news "personalities" and others for commentary from others on this site. since it's your moral obligation to stop it.
pjcas - It is sexual harassment to make sexually charge comments to co-workers. They don't have to be about the person spoken to in order to be considered harassment.