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NFT: Two teachers fired for playing Eff, Marry, Kill in a bar....

Britt in VA : 2/16/2017 11:24 am
with the subjects being their peers. Somebody decided to secretly film their conversation, then post it on Youtube. Predictable outrage followed, then dismissals.

Quote:
In January, gathered at the Bangor Tavern Bar and Grill in Michigan, several teachers and a secretary employed by the Bangor public school system decided to play a game. The game has been played in many bars many times before, normally in the context of celebrities or popular television characters. But the faculty chose to substitute their co-workers for Chris Pratt and Khal Drogo, discussing which of their colleagues they would kill, marry or sleep with (although they used a cruder verb than that). They also made fun of their pupils in ways that one parent would later describe as “heartbreaking.”

Unknown to the staff members and teachers, a nearby patron was recording the game. A six-minute video found its way to YouTube, and spread to the computer screens of Bangor parents and beyond.

An attorney for the school district, Robert Huber, told Michigan Live that the teachers did not discuss having sex with students, contrary to some reports. “The false impression that was created is that teachers were talking about whether they would marry, ‘f’ or kill students,” Huber said. “There’s no truth to that at all.”

Rather, the video showed three school employees naming co-workers to kill or sleep with, Huber said. The administration had known about the video for several weeks, he said; the footage showed seven Bangor employees at the bar, including four other teachers who were present but did not participate. The administrative secretary was the only participant who mentioned students, according to Huber.

On Feb. 13, during a school board meeting, outrage over the contents came to a head. Parents expressed concern that the school had known about the video and asked board members to explain what they knew.

“It’s disturbing to know that these are our educators,” said Jennifer Prentice, a parent in the school district, to western Michigan’s Fox 17. “They are in charge of protecting our children, keeping our children safe, and the fact that they just blew that out of the water shows their character and shows that maybe they’re not right for this job.”

“It was heartbreaking,” Amanda Reprogal, who said her 15-year-old son was mentioned in the video, also told Fox 17. “My heart sank, and I was disgusted.”

The only thing that wound up killed, in the end, were jobs. A few of the school employees — as of Tuesday, two teachers — have handed in resignation papers. The school secretary also resigned Monday.

One school staffer, who felt the video contained threats, filed a complaint with Bangor police. Bangor’s police chief, Tommy Simpson, reviewed the footage, according to WZZM 13. The police chief did not follow up with charges but noted the school was conducting an internal assessment. Fox 17 reported that the four teachers said to have witnessed the game were given verbal reprimands.


What a world we live in now....

Washington Post - ( New Window )
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I have no problem with it.  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:28 am : link
I don't think its a concern that the teachers were playing it, we all do shit like that when we are in a social setting and drinking, but you run the risk of this happening. How can you not fire them after that? Yes, it's a fun game, but they are saying who they would fuck and kill in public and then it went viral. What choice do they have?
OH NO  
Bockman : 2/16/2017 11:28 am : link
Won't someone think of the CHILDREN??!!??!

Fucking yuck.
Firing is appropriate...  
Dunedin81 : 2/16/2017 11:29 am : link
calling the police because you felt threatened? What the fuck?
You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Britt in VA : 2/16/2017 11:30 am : link
They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?
RE: Firing is appropriate...  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13362853 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
calling the police because you felt threatened? What the fuck?


I'm going to guess that the police report was filed with the idea of a lawsuit coming.
RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?


I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.
RE: Firing is appropriate...  
Mad Mike : 2/16/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13362853 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
calling the police because you felt threatened? What the fuck?

Yeah, that really stood out to me. I guess I wouldn't be too happy if I found out people I knew had me in the "kill" column, but feeling threatened? C'mon now, get a grip.
RE: RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Britt in VA : 2/16/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13362864 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?



I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.


The subjects were other teachers, not students.
RE: RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Mad Mike : 2/16/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13362864 Keith said:
Quote:
I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.

They were absolutely not using students in the game. The article is crystal clear about that. (Though they apparently did mention students in some other context).
RE: RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Bockman : 2/16/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13362864 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?



I don't see how they couldn't be fired. If you are going to play a "game" where as teachers, you are openly joking about which students you would fuck, marry and kill, then you absolutely should get fired if it becomes public.


Except it was already proven that they did NOT talk about students?
I believe that's what they said later to defend themselves  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:33 am : link
and I could be wrong, but the subjects are believed to be students.
Oh ok,  
Keith : 2/16/2017 11:34 am : link
if it's been proven that the students were not the subject, then I agree, firing is over the top.
RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Deej : 2/16/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?


Your right to privacy in a bar?
That's just ridiculous  
jcn56 : 2/16/2017 11:39 am : link
I wonder what the legal folks would say about an expectation of privacy here. The bar is technically a public place, but does someone have the right to capture your conversation without your permission and reproduce it?

I get that someone standing nearby could hear everything you said, but have we really reached the point where you should expect you're being recorded everywhere but your own home?
Your right to privacy from having your conversation recorded....  
Britt in VA : 2/16/2017 11:39 am : link
and distributed publicly without consent.
Over the Top, Knee Jerk Reaction  
Bob in Vt : 2/16/2017 11:40 am : link
I hope they sue the school.

Jesus Christ, this was just a game, at a bar. People get their panties knotted up over the stupidest things.
By far the bigger issue  
English Alaister : 2/16/2017 11:41 am : link
is the ridiculing of the students.
I think firing is a bridge too far...  
BMac : 2/16/2017 11:41 am : link
...A formal reprimand maybe. As for their "rights," they are in a public place with no realistic expectation of privacy.

I'm appalled that someone would record this and post it, but there a lot of assholes floating around and people have to adjust how they act in public. This sucks, but we're living in the real world and have to be aware that this is on its way to becoming the norm.
RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
Joey in VA : 2/16/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?
What rights? Are they paid with taxpayer money? That makes them accountable to the public, I'm sorry. Conduct yourself appropriately and none of this happens. If you want to be a disgusting fuck do it at home not out in public. (not you..the royal you)
I don't care about the game or the firing  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2017 11:45 am : link
it's really poor judgment to have a conversation like this in a public place in hearing distance of strangers. Should they have been fired? I don't care I could go either way on that.

but the bigger problem is one of the mothers actually believes this.

Quote:
“It’s disturbing to know that these are our educators,” said Jennifer Prentice, a parent in the school district, to western Michigan’s Fox 17. “They are in charge of protecting our children, keeping our children safe, and the fact that they just blew that out of the water shows their character and shows that maybe they’re not right for this job.”


a parent really believes teachers are in charge of protecting children and keeping them safe and someone with "bad character" may not be right for the job.
RE: Your right to privacy from having your conversation recorded....  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13362882 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and distributed publicly without consent.



I haven't seen the tape but sounds like if recorded and gone viral, they weren't exactly keeping their voices down. Pretty stupid and they're paying the price for it.

I'm also guessing if they were exceptional teachers, they would have been reprimanded or suspended (with apologies made to those other faculty impacted). sounds like a case of mediocre faculty being let go with cause.

Britt  
Joey in VA : 2/16/2017 11:45 am : link
This to me is analogous to the porn teacher situation which you agreed she should be fired for. Be the parent of a kid watching that and think, do I want this person educating my child? For me, it's a big fat no.
RE: I think firing is a bridge too far...  
Ira : 2/16/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13362889 BMac said:
Quote:
...A formal reprimand maybe. As for their "rights," they are in a public place with no realistic expectation of privacy.

I'm appalled that someone would record this and post it, but there a lot of assholes floating around and people have to adjust how they act in public. This sucks, but we're living in the real world and have to be aware that this is on its way to becoming the norm.


That pretty much covers it. People do stupid things, but, in this case, a reprimand or a short suspension would be more appropriate.
RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
HomerJones45 : 2/16/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13362854 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They were having a conversation over beers in a bar and being secretly filmed. What about their rights?
I am with you on this one. The asshole is the one who engaged in voyeurism and then posted it on youtube.
I'm almost always on the side of the school/public  
Britt in VA : 2/16/2017 11:46 am : link
when teachers are fired for misconduct, like when the teacher was fired last week for being an adult film actress 13 years prior, or when they get a DUI and get their face plastered on the news.

I understand that you work for the taxpayers and have to be held accountable.

This, to me, is not acceptable. The person that should be facing charges is the person that secretly filmed them.
Adults talking about  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 11:49 am : link
having sex with minors?

They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.
RE: I'm almost always on the side of the school/public  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13362905 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
when teachers are fired for misconduct, like when the teacher was fired last week for being an adult film actress 13 years prior, or when they get a DUI and get their face plastered on the news.

I understand that you work for the taxpayers and have to be held accountable.

This, to me, is not acceptable. The person that should be facing charges is the person that secretly filmed them.


What charge? Is there a law against recording people in public?

RE: RE: You guys think firing is appropriate?  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13362904 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
The asshole is the one who engaged in voyeurism and then posted it on youtube.



Where does it say the recording person derived sexual pleasure from taping this?
RE: Adults talking about  
BMac : 2/16/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13362910 B in ALB said:
Quote:
having sex with minors?

They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.


I thought this had been debunked above?
RE: Adults talking about  
mfsd : 2/16/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13362910 B in ALB said:
Quote:
having sex with minors?

They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.


Try reading the article before posting. It was made clear they never talked about sex with students or any other minors
RE: OH NO  
Brown Recluse : 2/16/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13362852 Bockman said:
Quote:
Won't someone think of the CHILDREN??!!??!

Fucking yuck.


Yes, someone probably should. Don't you think?
true msfd  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2017 11:58 am : link
but the article also made clear that they made fun of specific pupils "in heartbreaking ways" to at least one parent. Whether the parent is being a drama queen or not, if a teacher made fun of one of my kids I'd be pretty pissed off too.
I agree with Britt  
fkap : 2/16/2017 11:58 am : link
in that this shouldn't be grounds for dismissal.

You should expect that if you get caught engaging in an innocuous, but in very poor taste, game there's going to be repercussions. It calls into question character, and somehow or other that will seep into performance evaluation. but outright firing for something that happened outside of the school property? no.

But you can't expect privacy in a bar. if it were so loud and so ongoing that someone takes the time to record it, you're probably well over the line in terms of civility and conduct.

There's a lot of job situations where you piss off the wrong person, your job is in jeopardy. teaching in a non union environment is one of them. it's nothing unique, except that the number of people you can piss off is a little larger than at a local gas station.

hope the teachers sue...  
GMAN4LIFE : 2/16/2017 12:03 pm : link
this was done at a bar and didnt involve students.

real stupid
What a world we live in now  
njm : 2/16/2017 12:04 pm : link
True, but in many different ways. Sitting in a bar, a public space, and playing that game disqualifies all from the Einstein Award. Mocking students, though not through the game, in their hometown might have involved information that should remain private is equally if not more stupid.

On the other hand, we seems to have reached a point where privacy and the freedom from surveilence has vanished.
If they were talking  
dep026 : 2/16/2017 12:11 pm : link
about kids - firing is appropriate.

If they were talking about co-workers - they should not be fired.

Classic overreaction just to appease the public.
RE: RE: Adults talking about  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13362924 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13362910 B in ALB said:


Quote:


having sex with minors?

They should never be allowed to teach again. How about having some fucking standards and class? The fact that they somehow view children as sexual objects is absolutely foul. I wouldn't want them teaching my kids, that's for damned sure.



Try reading the article before posting. It was made clear they never talked about sex with students or any other minors


Try eating shit pal.

I saw the video a couple days ago and it showed them saying that they'd "F so-and-so" multiple times. Was that made up or something? Is that what happened?
And btw  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 12:21 pm : link
playing MARRY, FUCK, KILL about kids is fucking abhorrent. Are there no standards anymore? Holy shit.
Tatle tales hang out at bars?  
Ned In Atlanta : 2/16/2017 12:23 pm : link
Weird
RE: And btw  
njm : 2/16/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13362966 B in ALB said:
Quote:
playing MARRY, FUCK, KILL about kids is fucking abhorrent. Are there no standards anymore? Holy shit.


And if they were talking about middle school students they'd all be dead.
There should be a liist, I suppose,  
Bill L : 2/16/2017 12:24 pm : link
of things you can and cannot do or say to prevent you from being fired. Taking the sex with minors part off the table, this comes down to drunken babble about co-workers.

It's interesting to me in the sense that in the workplace, an expression of which co-worker you'd like to eff would get you a visit to HR. But the same conversation in a bar, but seen by workmates via youtube...is that the same? Clear ly context is everything.
RE: And btw  
Ned In Atlanta : 2/16/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13362966 B in ALB said:
Quote:
playing MARRY, FUCK, KILL about kids is fucking abhorrent. Are there no standards anymore? Holy shit.




Your reading comprehension is abhorrent. The article clearly states they weren't talking about kids
RE: There should be a liist, I suppose,  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13362973 Bill L said:
Quote:
an expression of which co-worker you'd like to eff would get you a visit to HR.



Not sure what company you work for but at mine, unless your performance has been exemplary for a decade, and even then, if you're caught doing that here they send security and a box to gather your things by EOD.
Put yourself involved with this conversation  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 12:27 pm : link
would you feel comfortable talking about kids this way?

I'm anti-pussification of america too - but this is substandard behavior from educators/adults, imo.
RE: RE: And btw  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13362976 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
The article clearly states they weren't talking about kids



Wrong, so I wouldn't be casting stones. The article merely says the teachers weren't talking about having sex or killing kids. The article clearly says they were making fun of various students (not game related), hence "they were talking about kids"
RE: RE: There should be a liist, I suppose,  
Bill L : 2/16/2017 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13362977 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13362973 Bill L said:


Quote:


an expression of which co-worker you'd like to eff would get you a visit to HR.




Not sure what company you work for but at mine, unless your performance has been exemplary for a decade, and even then, if you're caught doing that here they send security and a box to gather your things by EOD.
Well, I don't think I've seen it actually put to a test here.

I haven't been caught yet anyway.

Actually, I work in a science lab. Trust me, the answer is always going to be "no one" to that question, no matter who gets asked.
Relax Ned.  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 12:31 pm : link
I was referring to the video first - then the article states that one of the employees did mention kids. Regardless, juvenile and shit behavior by educators. I deal with instructors and professors every day and I would be pretty surprised that they would act this way.

I wouldn't expect you to have any standards at all, Ned.
RE: RE: RE: And btw  
Bill L : 2/16/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13362982 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13362976 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


The article clearly states they weren't talking about kids




Wrong, so I wouldn't be casting stones. The article merely says the teachers weren't talking about having sex or killing kids. The article clearly says they were making fun of various students (not game related), hence "they were talking about kids"
Even if you're just mocking kids, and not talking about having sex with the, I think that's a serious betrayal of trust which would make it hard to do your job effectively.
Our school district has warned us repeatedly...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/16/2017 12:35 pm : link
not to have conversations about students away from school. Period. Full Stop. It's just something you don't do. Students have a right to privacy.

I hate that bars have become this. Used to be you could go to a bar and engage in adult behaviors that children and others who were easily offended would be shielded from. Today you go into a bar and half the people in there are staring at their phones. You never know who's watching you or taking pictures of you.

As a teacher in conservative small-town Idaho I can't deal with the drama that would follow if pictures of me in a bar surfaced on social media. I bet more people are learning to avoid bars altogether. If you can't misbehave in them, what are they good for? (Just kidding - kind of)
No real opinion on this...but...  
RC02XX : 2/16/2017 12:36 pm : link
This phrase comes to mind...

"Play stupid gamess. Win stupid prizes."
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