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Joe Thomas: Would you trade a second round pick?

NYG27 : 2/16/2017 5:04 pm
Browns were reported to be asking for a second round pick for Thomas at the trade deadline. If that is still their current asking price, would you trade the Giants second round pick for him?
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We are not winning a championship with this offensive line..  
EricJ : 2/16/2017 7:55 pm : link
or even if we draft one with our first pick this year. We need 2-3 quality starters.

So you can dick around with finding a tight end, another receiver, or whatever you think this team needs... but we are not going anywhere until the line is fixed. Not some half assed attempt and patching a hole or two.
RE: RE: RE: No, a third and a fifth is the highest I go.  
est1986 : 2/16/2017 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13363635 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13363615 Earl the goat said:


Quote:


In comment 13363515 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


There are a bunch of guys that should be available in the second that I think would be great fits for us.



Well. Guess we are lucky you are not the GM



No, lucky that I wouldn't pay a first. A second this year is not like prior years. This draft is loaded.


Okay this draft "might" be loaded but we are picking later than we have picked since the year after our most recent SB, meaning our picks this year are less valuable than our picks of recent years... unless this draft is truly, ALOT stronger than recent drafts, I don't get your point.. and btw there was a guy in the second round of every single draft that would fit really nice here..
My point is there are other ways to fix the OL and still have yothe pi  
robbieballs2003 : 2/16/2017 8:04 pm : link
I like what I am hearing with Reiff. I think Pugh is a good LT. I would add another vet guard for competition. I would let Reiff, Pugh, and Flowers battle it out. I personally believe that Flowers will be no better at RT than LT because of his flaws. RT will not hide them. He has also played his whole life on the left side. Going to the right side will not be easier. Therefore, I would like to see him working between LT and LG. I think pur best combination would be Pugh at LT, Flowers at LG, vet RG, and Reiff at RT. This would allow us to keep our pick and possibly save money against the cap to keep JPP. We can also look for another vet DB. Bring back Robinson. Also, maybe get a TE like Sims. Keeping our pick would also give us another young cheap player for 5 years.
How set are the Browns at CB?  
KeoweeFan : 2/16/2017 8:16 pm : link
Could the NYG structure this as a trade (DRC) with a draft pick making up any difference in value?

If so, what pick would be reasonable in THAT situation? 4, 5?
no  
micky : 2/16/2017 8:28 pm : link
wouldn't trade a 2nd for him.

Have to find one thru draft...maybe not this off season but maybe in next yrs draft or 19'

Can't knee jerk because you are desperate for a LT.
RE: I would trade Sterling Shepard for Thomas right now  
djm : 2/16/2017 8:57 pm : link
In comment 13363551 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wouldn't think twice.


No fucking way. You're trading a cost controller good young player with upside for a great but expensive older player. Young productive cost controlled players are worth their weight in gold.

I'd trade the second rounder but in no way am I trading an established player with only one year in the league. That is a panic move if there ever was one. Someone else said flowers and a second? What are you high?
Even trading the second rounder sucks balls  
djm : 2/16/2017 9:01 pm : link
You're trading resources and spending a lot of money for a player you know little about. Grass isn't always greener. If you want a left tackle that badly blow whitworth out of the water. At least you keep the pick.

The whole point in acquiring a LT is if they can find a better place along the OL for flowers to flourish. In essence you hope and expect to upgrade two spots along the OL if you can land the LT.
Rob  
djm : 2/16/2017 9:08 pm : link
I've been beating the reiff drum for a couple of weeks now. For one thing he actually might leave Detroit unlike a guy like whitworth who seems likely to stay and joe Thomas isn't even worthy of saying he's a pipe dream. He's a fantasy. He isn't even a FA and the cost will be too high.

Reiff actually played LT for some time and apparently wasn't terrible but the lions drafted the better player, moved Reiff to RT and he flourished. He also said all the right things upon being moved. He can push flowers and play either side. Perfect.
Would you trade Collins for him ?  
joeinpa : 2/16/2017 9:13 pm : link
Didn't think so.
He's missed zero snaps  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 9:23 pm : link
almost 10000 or some craziness. And he's lost like over a 100 games.

Welcome aboard Joe!

He'd murder people here.
If it were true  
Torn Tendon : 2/16/2017 9:53 pm : link
Then some team would have made an offer. None did so the price was probably more than a 2nd.
in  
blue42 : 2/16/2017 9:54 pm : link
a naonosecond....
the  
blue42 : 2/16/2017 9:56 pm : link
lack of offers might be the contract....our qb is 38....we aren't grooming OL right now.
RE: the  
phillygiant : 2/16/2017 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13363754 blue42 said:
Quote:
lack of offers might be the contract....our qb is 38....we aren't grooming OL right now.


36

Not 38
Yeah no way in hell am I trading Shepard  
Keith : 2/16/2017 10:47 pm : link
for him. Shepard is going to be a baller for this team for a long time.
Considering we spent a first on Flowers  
OdellBeckhamJr : 2/16/2017 11:51 pm : link
Yes
RE: I would trade Sterling Shepard for Thomas right now  
B in ALB : 2/16/2017 11:53 pm : link
In comment 13363551 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wouldn't think twice.


Come on. That's absurd, Terps.

Are you ok?
Yes  
TyreeHelmet : 2/17/2017 12:01 am : link
Its a no brainer. All Pro who never misses a snap? Aligns with the end of Eli's career. Yes you do it and don't think twice. Not happening though- he's worth more.
/...  
Peppers : 2/17/2017 12:12 am : link
Hugh Jackson on Joe Thomas trade: "yea that's not happening"
The Universe on  
B in ALB : 2/17/2017 12:17 am : link
Hugh Jackson winning a Super Bowl, "Yeah, that's not happening."
RE: The Universe on  
Peppers : 2/17/2017 12:45 am : link
In comment 13363825 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Hugh Jackson winning a Super Bowl, "Yeah, that's not happening."


really going on there on the limb with that joke huh
Going out on a limb?  
B in ALB : 2/17/2017 12:48 am : link
Uh. Yeah? No? Er, I don't know what the fuck you're babbling about?
I don't think so. Would rather just overspend to ensure  
Jimmy Googs : 2/17/2017 1:08 am : link
we win contest for best free agent LT available.

Not sure who that is though yet?

Keep our picks...
RE: Yeah no way in hell am I trading Shepard  
CromartiesKid21 : 2/17/2017 1:59 am : link
In comment 13363777 Keith said:
Quote:
for him. Shepard is going to be a baller for this team for a long time.

Nah prolly like 2 more years, similar to every "baller" receiver we've had past 10 years that's flawed out thanks to injuries
RE: RE: In a heartbeat  
Big_Pete : 2/17/2017 3:47 am : link
In comment 13363538 AcidTest said:
Quote:


Great analysis. The problem is that I don't think the Browns would do it. Aside from his obvious talent, Spotrac says they'd have an $11.5M cap hit if they traded him.


Actually that is not quite correct. Joe Thomas's contract for 2017 2018 according to spotrac has an $8.8m base salary, a $2.5m roster bonus and a $200k workout bonus. There is no attributed portion of his signing bonus against the salary cap and there is no guaranteed money left in his deal.

What this means is should Joe Thomas be traded before the roster bonus is due, Thomas would be off the books for the Browns, freeing up $11.5m

Apparently the 2018 portion of his contract is structured the same to the 2017 potion other than the roster bonus being lower at $1m.

If we were to trade for Joe Thomas it would be for $11.5m in 2017 and $10m in 2018 without any guaranteed money. There is of course the option of reworking the deal should that be desirable.
roster bonus  
Big_Pete : 2/17/2017 3:52 am : link
Looking a little further, Joe Thomas's $2.5m roster bonus is due the 13th March 2017.

March 9: Trading period for 2017 begins at 4:00 p.m., New York time.

So if a trade involving Joe Thomas was to happen, it almost certainly would take place in the window between the 9th and 12th March.

That of course assumes Cleveland is willing to make a deal.
Its interesting  
Tom in DC : 2/17/2017 7:44 am : link
It would improve both our LT and RT, as Flowers would move to the right side.

We proved we are a pretty decent team this year. Rather than rebuild, we shoudl reload and try for one more before Eli declines. Either a 2nd or maybe a 3rd and Bobby Hart.
Thomas  
stretch234 : 2/17/2017 8:06 am : link
Why would Cleveland trade him - yes they are bad and need assets, but how are they better off getting rid of a top level LT that they will have to replace. They are not getting Joe Thomas back to play LT

I will sign Whitworth first and save the pick

RE: Thomas  
Big Blue '56 : 2/17/2017 8:08 am : link
In comment 13363919 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Why would Cleveland trade him - yes they are bad and need assets, but how are they better off getting rid of a top level LT that they will have to replace. They are not getting Joe Thomas back to play LT

I will sign Whitworth first and save the pick


I'm in for that. Problem APPEARS TO BE that Whitworth wants to stay in Cincy and the Bengals do as well..
RE: My point is there are other ways to fix the OL and still have yothe pi  
Beer Man : 2/17/2017 9:21 am : link
In comment 13363653 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I like what I am hearing with Reiff. I think Pugh is a good LT. I would add another vet guard for competition. I would let Reiff, Pugh, and Flowers battle it out. I personally believe that Flowers will be no better at RT than LT because of his flaws. RT will not hide them. He has also played his whole life on the left side. Going to the right side will not be easier. Therefore, I would like to see him working between LT and LG. I think pur best combination would be Pugh at LT, Flowers at LG, vet RG, and Reiff at RT. This would allow us to keep our pick and possibly save money against the cap to keep JPP. We can also look for another vet DB. Bring back Robinson. Also, maybe get a TE like Sims. Keeping our pick would also give us another young cheap player for 5 years.
But we have been told that Pugh's arms are too short to play LT. (8>
Pugh played left tackle and wasn't very good at it.  
Brown Recluse : 2/17/2017 9:40 am : link
He was better than Flowers...but so are just about 31 other left tackles.
Yes.  
Stratman : 2/17/2017 9:53 am : link
Move Pugh to RT and Flowers to RG. Find a LG to fill in for Pugh.
I posted in another thread but also works here- Joe Staley  
Brandon Walsh : 2/17/2017 10:08 am : link
I have to wonder if Joe Staley can be had for a third rounder (I don't think NYG would give up anything higher and that may be pushing given how they value their draft picks)

The 49ers have a new regime with unprecedented six year contracts so they have the time on their side to re-build that thing.

Staley is 32, still playing at an elite level, only making 8 million per year and locked up at the number for three years. NYG also liked him pre-draft. He would make a ton of sense if the trade demands aren't higher than a third and a maybe a conditional late pick.
RE: I posted in another thread but also works here- Joe Staley  
jcn56 : 2/17/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13364073 Brandon Walsh said:
Quote:
I have to wonder if Joe Staley can be had for a third rounder (I don't think NYG would give up anything higher and that may be pushing given how they value their draft picks)

The 49ers have a new regime with unprecedented six year contracts so they have the time on their side to re-build that thing.

Staley is 32, still playing at an elite level, only making 8 million per year and locked up at the number for three years. NYG also liked him pre-draft. He would make a ton of sense if the trade demands aren't higher than a third and a maybe a conditional late pick.


Why would the Niners make this trade? Why would you open a hole at LT, when the result is only $8M returned in cap space and a third round pick?
RE: RE: I posted in another thread but also works here- Joe Staley  
Big Blue '56 : 2/17/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13364092 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13364073 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


I have to wonder if Joe Staley can be had for a third rounder (I don't think NYG would give up anything higher and that may be pushing given how they value their draft picks)

The 49ers have a new regime with unprecedented six year contracts so they have the time on their side to re-build that thing.

Staley is 32, still playing at an elite level, only making 8 million per year and locked up at the number for three years. NYG also liked him pre-draft. He would make a ton of sense if the trade demands aren't higher than a third and a maybe a conditional late pick.



Why would the Niners make this trade? Why would you open a hole at LT, when the result is only $8M returned in cap space and a third round pick?


Given that they do not appear to be contenders ( though with parity you never know from one year to the next) similar to the Browns, why not get younger and build through the draft?
Also to be accurate,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/17/2017 11:01 am : link
Staley will enter the 2017 season at age 33
'56 - do you see how many holes we have to fill?  
jcn56 : 2/17/2017 11:07 am : link
It's not easy filling a number of vacant or practically vacant positions every season.

Now think about what the Browns or 49ers have to do. Do you really think their priority list includes opening up a hole at LT for minimal resources in return, all in the name of 'getting younger'?

Another thing to consider - anyone see the lousy list of available FAs for the OT position last season? And the slightly better list of guys available this year? With tackle play around the league being relatively poor, why would either of these teams trade away a guy considered to be very good, healthy, and playing for a reasonable amount of money when the chances of drafting or signing his replacement aren't in their favor? And if they were going to trade him, why would they do it for so little in return when the demand is so high?

Makes no sense - which is why it hasn't happened.
RE: RE: I posted in another thread but also works here- Joe Staley  
Brandon Walsh : 2/17/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13364092 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13364073 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


I have to wonder if Joe Staley can be had for a third rounder (I don't think NYG would give up anything higher and that may be pushing given how they value their draft picks)

The 49ers have a new regime with unprecedented six year contracts so they have the time on their side to re-build that thing.

Staley is 32, still playing at an elite level, only making 8 million per year and locked up at the number for three years. NYG also liked him pre-draft. He would make a ton of sense if the trade demands aren't higher than a third and a maybe a conditional late pick.



Why would the Niners make this trade? Why would you open a hole at LT, when the result is only $8M returned in cap space and a third round pick?


Because they are in a total re-build, not far off from Cleveland Browns level with a whole new regime that has a clean slate and time on their side. A total re-build means accumulate as many premium draft picks as possible and that would equate to rounds 1-3. With Staley as one of the only (maybe only) valuable assets they have that can return such premium draft picks, that goes hand and hand. Make sense? Also, by the time they are actually somewhat close to even being an 8-8 team, Staley will probably be close to done. Why hold your most valuable asset and get nothing in return for it when it doesn't fit their current situation

Would they prefer a 2nd rounder? Duh. But since its a compromise and the Giants wouldn't give a 2nd rounder, thus my 3rd round scenario.

Do I think it will happen? Probably not, but a helluva lot more realistic than Joe Thomas or half the other nonsense thrown around here.
No, it still doesn't make sense  
jcn56 : 2/17/2017 5:01 pm : link
Quote:
Because they are in a total re-build, not far off from Cleveland Browns level with a whole new regime that has a clean slate and time on their side. A total re-build means accumulate as many premium draft picks as possible and that would equate to rounds 1-3. With Staley as one of the only (maybe only) valuable assets they have that can return such premium draft picks, that goes hand and hand. Make sense? Also, by the time they are actually somewhat close to even being an 8-8 team, Staley will probably be close to done. Why hold your most valuable asset and get nothing in return for it when it doesn't fit their current situation


For starters, this is the NFL, not the NBA - it's not going to take these guys 5 years to rebuild if they do it right.

Second - the first order of business is going to be getting a QB. You know what you need for a QB before anything else? You guessed it - a LT. How far do you think that 3rd rounder is going to go towards them adding an LT? Or the $8M that they'd free up? With the cap going up this season and next, that's going to be peanuts by the end of next season.

Finally - he's 32 now, and hasn't had any health issues. Who's to say that he won't play for another 4-5 years?

Staley isn't going anywhere for a 3rd. Neither is Thomas. There's a reason these guys get mentioned on rumor mills and never move - because the hole you open by moving them either needs (a) a capable player already on the roster who can develop into the next LT or (b) enough in return to justify creating another hole that you have to fill. A 3rd rounder isn't going to do that in any way, shape or form.
Joe Thomas-would you trade a 2nd Round pick?  
johnboyw : 2/17/2017 5:07 pm : link
Given that it's a late 2nd round pick (#55), absolutely. There is no player they can draft there who would have anywhere near the impact Thomas would have this year. They fix that LT problem and a lot of other things will get better.
Problem is Reese won't do it. He doesn't want to let down his scouts who work so hard all year by dumping a premium pick they won't have the opportunity to make then. He's way too sensitive to this. Someone needs to tell him he's the GM. That doesn't involve sensitivity awareness.
RE: Joe Thomas-would you trade a 2nd Round pick?  
jcn56 : 2/17/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13364573 johnboyw said:
Quote:
Given that it's a late 2nd round pick (#55), absolutely. There is no player they can draft there who would have anywhere near the impact Thomas would have this year. They fix that LT problem and a lot of other things will get better.
Problem is Reese won't do it. He doesn't want to let down his scouts who work so hard all year by dumping a premium pick they won't have the opportunity to make then. He's way too sensitive to this. Someone needs to tell him he's the GM. That doesn't involve sensitivity awareness.


Absolutely, he's way too sensitive, just like the 20 or so other NFL GMs that also need a top flight LT and would only have to part with a late 2nd round pick to get him. They're all just a bunch of pansies.
RE: Joe Thomas-would you trade a 2nd Round pick?  
Big Blue '56 : 2/17/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13364573 johnboyw said:
Quote:
Given that it's a late 2nd round pick (#55), absolutely. There is no player they can draft there who would have anywhere near the impact Thomas would have this year. They fix that LT problem and a lot of other things will get better.
Problem is Reese won't do it. He doesn't want to let down his scouts who work so hard all year by dumping a premium pick they won't have the opportunity to make then. He's way too sensitive to this. Someone needs to tell him he's the GM. That doesn't involve sensitivity awareness.


Quote:

Problem is Reese won't do it. He doesn't want to let down his scouts who work so hard all year by dumping a premium pick they won't have the opportunity to make then. He's way too sensitive to this. Someone needs to tell him he's the GM. That doesn't involve sensitivity awareness.



Where do you come up with this shit? You state this as you know for fact this is the case..

Re: Joe Thomas  
johnboyw : 2/17/2017 10:02 pm : link
Where do I get this? Reese admitted it a couple of years ago when someone asked him about trading a pick for a player. His response, and I'll paraphrase, was "...we don't like to trade those picks. Our scouts work too hard to not be able to make those picks on draft day". His words.
John, I do remember Reese saying that (while working for Ernie A) ....  
Manny in CA : 2/17/2017 11:34 pm : link

I believe that was 2003, when the Giants had 11 draft picks (the William Joseph year) .....

Everybody thought, for sure, he was going to parlay his three #6s & three #7s to move up in the draft. The only player in that lower group that worked out was David Tyree.

(It's still a head-scratcher for me)
RE: Re: Joe Thomas  
jcn56 : 2/18/2017 1:10 am : link
In comment 13364722 johnboyw said:
Quote:
Where do I get this? Reese admitted it a couple of years ago when someone asked him about trading a pick for a player. His response, and I'll paraphrase, was "...we don't like to trade those picks. Our scouts work too hard to not be able to make those picks on draft day". His words.


Where did you see those words? Let's see a link.
The Browns have two 1sts and two 2s this year  
Big Blue '56 : 2/18/2017 11:18 am : link
and already have two 2s next year..So much for a 2 getting it done
RE: The Browns have two 1sts and two 2s this year  
mrvax : 2/18/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13364879 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
and already have two 2s next year..So much for a 2 getting it done


3 number 2's is considered a full house.
RE: How set are the Browns at CB?  
giantgiantfan : 2/18/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13363671 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
Could the NYG structure this as a trade (DRC) with a draft pick making up any difference in value?

If so, what pick would be reasonable in THAT situation? 4, 5?


Why would they want a rental at CB? That franchise is and has been in rebuild mode for as long as I can remember, they need picks. Not a CB who will be out of the league in a two or three years.

I'd give them a 2nd yesterday. Giants are win now.
I don't see this happening.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/18/2017 2:34 pm : link
Reese is a scout at by trade. He values his picks.

A GM like Mike Tannenbaum would do this. He doesn't mind burning picks for star players.
the Giants aren't trading  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/19/2017 11:17 am : link
premium draft picks for Joe Thomas -- they are committed to building the Giants through the draft and judicious signings in FA --

it makes zero sense to buy Thomas for one or two years for a pick that is favorably salary fixed for four years

not going to happen - nor should it


trading sheppard for thomas -- is epically insane - that's like drawing on twenty in black jack -- you simply don't -- you know what you have in sheppard -- you are guessing to an extent with thomas
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