Jordan Raanan had a facebook live sesh. He stressed this point that I thought was very edifying:
He's heard the Giants very very much want to bring back the defensive pieces form last year. He mentioned JPP, Hankins, and Robinson by name as guys they very much want back in blue.
Just a FYI and something to keep in mind as we approach FA. I like the sound of this.
Scroll down a bit and it's there - ( New Window )
This actually might be the one time they should think about it, not because of the 3 above specifically, but in actuality where Manning is in his career.
Good. They are thinking like I am.
I too see the risk with investing too much with JPP. However, let's look at this situation in a positive light. JPP was having a very good season, and seemed more mature and worked his ass off last off season. There is just as much a chance of him having 4-5 good years left ala Michael Strahan as there is of having a heavy decline.
He is not the same JPP from 3 years ago and that is a good thing. The only question I have is " how much " will get it done.
1. I think he means the key FA's.
2. I doubt the Giants are actively shopping DRC, but I think they'd listed if called.
No it won't, you know that..😎
Take what they have now - 33+M in space - add JT thomas and get you to 37M. You also have Pugh to sign long term and provide more
JPP 4-62 22M SB 42G
Hankins 5-40 12M SB 20G could go 4-32
Pugh 5-42 15M SB 24G
SB allocation is 11M - you can give each 3M salary for 2017 and still have absolute minimum 17M left.
Take what they have now - 33+M in space - add JT thomas and get you to 37M. You also have Pugh to sign long term and provide more
JPP 4-62 22M SB 42G
Hankins 5-40 12M SB 20G could go 4-32
Pugh 5-42 15M SB 24G
SB allocation is 11M - you can give each 3M salary for 2017 and still have absolute minimum 17M left.
I think those are realistic estimates for JPP and hank. JPP gets Vernon money just 4 years instead of 5. Hankins seems high to me, but he is young.
I think you are low on Pugh. He should get closer to what osemele got last year(5/58, 25 guaranteed).
the trade/cut DRC crowd will point to the savings so that Giants can bring back JPP+JHank+KRob. never mind that the savings are mostly an illusion, as now you have to replace DRC. The draft is supposedly deep in DB, so there is an argument to be made that DRC can be replaced cheaper in the draft.
the gotta keep him crowd will point out that the Giants want to keep the D band together.
my initial reaction to your post was to wonder which side thinks the issue is put to rest?
However, they won't have much room to do much by way of new acquisitions.
Unless there's a can't miss FA out there, DO NOT mortgage the future by redoing contracts. It's one of the ways we got into cap hell a couple years ago.
... and constantly hurt. Pugh is our best OL, but the bar is set so low that he stands out. His 5th year option 8+ mil cap hit can't stand. He either needs to be extended or cut.
An extension should be a short term to allow him to prove he can stay healthy and allow him to earn another payday in the short term. It should include escalators for performance and game starts.
If he does not want to agree to a prove it deal, then we can move on before the start of the season with a zero cap hit. We own his rights, but the 5th year option is guaranteed for injury only. If he gets hurt in OTAs or training camp, we are on the hook for the 8+ mil.
With Pugh's rights retained, we should look to upgrade his position. If we are content at paying 8mil/yr, then we might as well upgrade the position in FA and tell Pugh to find his own money.
I don't really see the love for Pugh. He's more than a JAG, but not really much to write home about. As you said 'best of' is a really low bar to reach on this team. Seems to me he's a middle of the road guy, not someone you spend 8 mil a year on. then again, maybe 8 mil is the going price for middle of the road guards.
I think the Hank number is reasonable - he is not the top level, but with yearly salary increases, it moves him up from Linjo type numbers. He would be in top 10 4-3 DT
I think Pugh or Zeitler will get Osemele type money in guarantees only (25M). Pugh at 5-42 gets him top 5 and 24M guaranteed is slightly under Osemele
The way Reese front loaded the contracts last year of the FA, the Giants are not going into cap hell. After 2017
Vernon has 29M of 40M paid
Snacks has 15.5M of 24M paid
jenkins has 23M of 28M paid
If they keep Vernon in 2018, 46 of his 52M will be paid and he will be 27. The deals were essentially 3 year deals 16-18. There is no money other than SB allocation that will be left after 2018.
I don't really see the love for Pugh. He's more than a JAG, but not really much to write home about. As you said 'best of' is a really low bar to reach on this team. Seems to me he's a middle of the road guy, not someone you spend 8 mil a year on. then again, maybe 8 mil is the going price for middle of the road guards.
Also agree. Pugh isn't worth $8.8M, but what choice do we have? The whole OL is in flux. Extending him is more likely than cutting him, but we'd probably have to overpay to do so. My guess is we just eat the $8.8M. Sometimes teams have to do so. Eli is an immobile QB on the "back nine" of his career. I can't see the Giants removing the one stable piece of his otherwise shaky OL.
JPP is the most likely of the other three to leave. A few teams have a gargantuan amount of cap space, and at least one may well make him an offer Reese won't match. That seems less likely with Hankins and Robinson. I want JPP back, but am OK letting him go because of his age and injury history.
Enough to sign JPP Hank and Krob and still have a easy 20+m's. But then our biggest needs are a OL , a CB, a WR.
Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. As long as they beefed up the offense in the draft.
Enough to sign JPP Hank and Krob and still have a easy 20+m's. But then our biggest needs are a OL , a CB, a WR.
Not quite. Cutting those guys gets us to about 37.5 in space. You are only saving 4-5m max extending Pugh. So we will be much closer to 40m than 50m in space.
This actually might be the one time they should think about it, not because of the 3 above specifically, but in actuality where Manning is in his career.
Eli shouldnt have taken the contract he did. Easy to say in my shoes but the guy's been rich his entire life. Has never worried about one bill. He's made enough money and comes from enough money where that will be the case. Did he really need another 100 million contract? Not just eli, a lot of these quarterbacks who have made a disgusting amount of money should take half on their last deal to help the organization out.
The Giants can still make one major splash on the OL and bolster other areas with the remaining space and flexibility.
Darian Thompson back is like getting an impact free agent. Goodson replacing Sheppard should realize improvement.
And the overall group having another year in the scheme is further gains.
This actually might be the one time they should think about it, not because of the 3 above specifically, but in actuality where Manning is in his career.
Why? Signing OV, Jackrabbit, Snacks, Robinson, Hall, Rainey, Sheppard and Sensabaugh cost us 34 million last year.
Hankins & JPP aren't getting OV & Jackrabbit money. We can sign all 3 of them and have plenty of money to sign free agents.
Then you draft a QB once that is achieved.
Unlike most other DCs, who prefer that their personnel is constantly changing, I suppose.
It's a good thing the great ones come with signs on their backs letting you know that they truly are great.
Lovely.
Lovely.
Just wondering when you'll give us another insightful mock draft that looks like this:
1. G
2. G
3. TE
4. TE
5. WR
6. WR
7. RB
Next up, getting JPP to play for vet minimum.
Got it. Send Jerry a letter, I'm sure your request will hit home for him.
You do understand that you have to pay other people on the team right? You'd be the guy bitching and moaning about the DL if the OL was perfect.
I think the Giants are hesitant, to sign Pugh long term, because of injury problems....
I don't think they can afford both Hankins and JPP....both are going for there first big multi year contracts, and will not be cheap, especially if when FAcy starts, a couple of GM's start overpaying players....
As for the draft, we will be lucky to get one starter from it, picking in the 23rd position...
But, I don't know how Reese can just let this offense go on with marginal players, and expect better results from Eli....
Reese is fixing the offense AND the defense again(because of our own FA's)....there is also the matter of another CB, LB, and FS needs...
If he doesn't get the right guys, and doesn't get lucky in the draft, it could be matter of 2 steps forward, and one step back, for this team in the upcoming season....
Keith...Eli was running for his life at times that year, and got absolutely destroyed throw after throw against the Niners in the playoffs. That OL was not good.
That offensive line was still better than this one.
Which should tell you how bad this line is.
Beatty/Diehl > Flowers
Diehl/Boothe = Pugh (Even if you favor Pugh, its not by much)
Baas < Richburg
Snee >>>> Jerry
McKenzie > Hart/Newhouse
That being said, you can't ignore the 17 other positions on the team.
Then you draft a QB once that is achieved.
Agree 10,00000 percent
So when people point to how poor the O-Line was in 2011, I think they forget that aspect that majority of the regular season, we didn't have all 5 healthy at the same time.
When we did, then we got on a roll and their level of play was elevated with a healthy O-Line in the playoffs.
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I know lots of numbers have been thrown out as to what is available, or will be if...., but are those numbers before or after the 6M for draft picks and about 3M for injury settlements? That reserve alone is one pretty good player.
Klaatu : 10:15 am : link : reply
In comment 13364079 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Am I going to have a yapping pug dog snapping at my heels now?
Lovely.
Just wondering when you'll give us another insightful mock draft that looks like this:
1. G
2. G
3. TE
4. TE
5. WR
6. WR
7. RB''
Hehe, very lacking in detail to say the least on that one, hehehe. Still laughing here right now.
That said, you did 'instruct and correct' me for pasting in TOO MUCH information and opinion in another thread, a combine related thread, just yesterday, so there is that. I had been minding my own business.
But, that said again, I did laugh at myself on that one above, brief would be an understatement. Then, that said x3, if we do it, we will probably win more next year.
Reese has tried to rebuild the OL over the past few years a few steps at a time with decent success. It's certainly not the shit show it was in 2013 and 2014, but it still needs work. We'll get there.
I mean, he may come here because he is comforted by the predictability and banality of the usual discourse, and the assumption that he is a man among boys when it comes to football drafting acumen. Which is all just fine.
However, he may have been discomforted to a certain degree when I DID post more data and opinion, in a different thread, because, at that time, rather than engaging in discourse about the prospects, he resorted to playing Hall Monitor, saying, in short, 'that is not allowed.'
If you look back, if anything, I have posted TOO much data and specifics this time of year, and have never been short on opinions.
Yet from the NCAA:
Estimated probability of competing in professional football
NCAA Participants (A)
Approximate # Draft Eligible (B)
# Draft Slots (C)
# NCAA Drafted
% NCAA to Major Pro* %
NCAA to Total Pro^
(A)72,788
(B)16,175 (draft eligible!)
(C)256
256
1.6%
1.9%
Yet there are (46?) regional combines.
So, obviously if pro scouts were just or mainly looking to the combine, they are / would be letting the NFL select players for them to a certain degree, which would seem to fly in the face of the numbers.
Therefor blabbing away about top prospects ad infinitum would seem silly.
Then frankly I wouldn't care which of the other two guys we inked. We do well with DT's in the draft and free agency(which has a very strong group this year) so I'm confident we can find a worthy partner for Snacks. LB on the other hand has been a problem for a loooong time. I'd rather not take a step back after we finally made some progress there with competent play as a whole.
The whole FA thing is fluid and predicated on so many variables, cap room is one of them but it's hardly the only one. I firmly believe that.
Keep this D together if you can do so. If these three NYG FAs want to chance things and shop around for the biggest offer there's only so much the Giants should do, but they should definitely offer these guys legit deals. Nothing crazy but fair. If they leave so be it...at least the Giants tried. I would think all three guys stay as long as the Giants offer fair value.
Quote:
Cutting Veeren and JT plus extending Pugh and trading DRC puts us around 50 m's.
Enough to sign JPP Hank and Krob and still have a easy 20+m's. But then our biggest needs are a OL , a CB, a WR.
Not quite. Cutting those guys gets us to about 37.5 in space. You are only saving 4-5m max extending Pugh. So we will be much closer to 40m than 50m in space.
3 mil from JT, 3 mil from Veeren, 5 mil from DRC that's 11 mil on top of 34 mil plus Pugh's extension.. I think that's closer to 50 than 40 but we will see..
Point is, I agree with you that we should be able to retain the three and still have 'plenty' to make another splash or two.
Think to now. No one on the OL is making any money. Pugh and Richburg will soon. Maybe Flowers will if he improves. Who else? No one. And Pugh and Burg aren't even making that much yet. TE? No one. WR? No one but Beckum will soon. RB? Not really. Vereen makes a bit but no one else.
The Giants have plenty of money to spend. Spend it on the known commodities and worry about other FAs when the time comes. You don't even know if any of the so called FAs of need out there are even on the Giants radar or vice versa.
The Giants rebooted this thing in 2014 for this exact reason. They drafted well, now it's time to reap the rewards and build some continuity. They'd be nuts not to make fair market value offers to these guys. Other teams should have to exceed those offers to land them. Hopefully logic prevails and they stay.
Take Flowers for instance, that pick is looking troublesome, to say the least.
We're in the market right now for Reuben '2nd Rounder' Randle's replacement. Great pick.
Oh where, o where is the JPP of Tight Ends when you need him. Oh yeah another 3rd rounder on the scrap heap.
I find this one stunning, noone from the 2011 and 2012 combined drafts, that's right all 15 picks, both entire drafts was on the Giants roster this past season.
I'd hate to see poor drafting if that was good. Factor in the potential Flowers miss with a Top Ten selection and the offensive talent evaluation comes into serious question. Which is where free agency comes into play.
It's doubtful we can find solutions to all these offensive problems in one draft.
JT may get cut, but all this talk of Vereen getting cut makes no sense. He showed he can make a contribution. He got hurt, he will stick around another at least.
Every year there is a guy that inexplicably gets talked up as a cut, usually a guy that got injured. This year's guy is Vereen.
It would be nice to have 40m in cap space rather than 35.
Its a thing in football, RBs sometimes have to retire.
look, they probably rehabbed Cruz for a damn long time, that is about helping Cruz be healthy as much as anything else.
for RB's especially, be safe.