“Even you think about guys that have gone and really tried to attack my character and called me a flawed candidate, a guy like Cris Carter. Trust me, I’m better than Cris Carter,” Owens said. “I’ll tell him that. He knows that I’m not a fan of him. . . .
“Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. He wants me to wait because he had to wait. I did more with less. I was better than Cris Carter. So he shouldn’t mention anything about anybody, especially me, about being a flawed candidate when here’s a guy who got released, flunked three drug tests from Philly — cocaine and alcohol addiction — and then there was somewhere down the road he’s telling guys to ask somebody to be a fall guy. What kind of character is that? So c’mon man. C’mon.”k Lonk - ( New Window )
it's all of them.....they have become watered down, and it becomes more of a popularity contest than anything else.....
Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....
I think that's MORE than appropriate given his notorious status as a locker room cancer and a ME-FIRST, show-boating diva in the ultimate team-sport.
He certainly didn't lack for ego, but can you really call a guy me-first when he played in the Super Bowl with a fractured leg - and played damned well to boot?
can you really call a guy me-first when he played in the Super Bowl with a fractured leg - and played damned well to boot?
It was a gutsy performance, no doubt, but it doesn't erase all the other things that he was. ME-first guys still want to win. They are not mutually exclusive attributes.
You're right. It doesn't. Phil Simms has better passing stats than 23 QBs who are already in the HOF, plus a SB MVP, and a second ring for a season where he won 10 of the games that season. One would think that would be enough. He ain't in.
Committees that give awards and induct people into HOFs are notoriously personal and inconsistent about it. As human beings usually are.
It's not hard to imagine that Owens' antics rubbed some of those on the committee the wrong way, and he's paying for it now.
BOO FUCKING HOO.
He can get his popcorn ready, love him some him, and try and keep up with his child support payments till he gets in.
than it should matter consistently. It doesn't. And that's bullshit. And TO IS better than Carter...
Well the absurd thing about all this is that he's being held up next to Cris Carter. Not exactly a Walter Payton Award winner. /(checks wikipedia to be sure.)
I mean except for 1999, when he won the Walter Payton award.
But to be fair, CC is plenty slimey- by his own admission.
Character matters. You can question carters character early in his career, but he turned himself around. Owens will get it at some point, but he was a POS his whole career and now he will see the consequences by waiting a few years to get in. BFD
So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that
Owens' numbers beat Carter's career easily, and in fewer games played. He was just a better player.
And they both had off-field issues, but if you want to nitpick, at least Owens never had drug issues.
I absolutely agree that by every reasonable, meaningful measure, Owens was a much better receiver and overall player than Carter.
I just think the idea that "not having drug issues" should merit special consideration is a bit funny. From a teammate perspective, I think Carter was "better" than Owens despite Carter struggling with drugs and Owens staying clean.
RE: RE: I don't know why people complain about HOF voting. Â
Character matters. You can question carters character early in his career, but he turned himself around. Owens will get it at some point, but he was a POS his whole career and now he will see the consequences by waiting a few years to get in. BFD
So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that
I get what you are trying to do, it just doesn't make any sense. If LT was not in the HOF and I was on the thread defending LT and suggesting that he should be in and TO shouldn't, maybe your cute little post would have a point. That's not the case. In fact, I am well aware that TO is the best wr not in the pro bowl and based on his career, he should be. All I am saying is that he made his own bed. The idea that he only fought with mcNabb is ridiculous, he fought with every QB and coach. He was a prick that shun his teammates and coaches and now he can cry about it all he wants. I don't feel bad for him. He will get in.
His production far exceeds Carter and in less games. Then off the field, while he has had some issues, Carter had more and more serious ones. To me, as much as I didn't like him, Owens should be a no-brainer for the HoF. He is one of the top 5 WRs to have played in my lifetime, in my opinion.
it's all of them.....they have become watered down, and it becomes more of a popularity contest than anything else.....
Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....
This is factually incorrect. If you look at the data in baseball and football (I haven't looked into NBA or NHL Halls of Fame) you will find that players from prior generations are the ones who are over-represented in the Halls of Fame. If anything, it is far, far harder to get in the Halls now than it was in the past.
Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.
than Owens not making it to Canton on his first go around. I am shocked at the outcry about this guy. He going to get in...relax. OWens was porbably the biggest pain in the ass, diva WR of ALL TIME. He was a pain in the ass in the huddle, locker room and sidelines for every team he played for. He's going to get in and he should get in but it's not a crime against humanity when any great player gets shut down on the first try into the HOF, let alone a guy like Owens.
Joe Dimaggio didn't make it in to Cooperstown on the first vote. Strahan didn't. Owens will be fine. So will all of die hard supporters. Funny how the guy was a punchline for most of his career and everyone couldn't wait to label the guy a cancer. Now he's a martyr. WTF.
RE: RE: Terrell Owens: I'm better than Chris Carter... Â
In comment 13364498 Torrag said:
Quote:
...he is correct. He is better than Chris Carter.
Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.
Agreed. Never liked TO as a person. He was and still is a complete a**hole. But he was an exceptional player by any definition and his statistics are HOF worthy compared to others who are in there. He should be in.
I think I know what a Hall of Famer looks like. T.O. will be in the Hall of Fame. Just because he didn’t get into the HOF the first or second year doesn’t mean the process needs to be overhauled. Michael Irvin didn’t get in the HOF until his third year and I could easily make a case he was a better player than T.O. For sure, if I had a choice of having one of them on my team, I would take Irvin. Not even close in my mind.
...
As far as the comparison to Irvin, just as far as their playing ability, Irvin played on three Super Bowl championship teams. He was a leader and a winner. He had much better hands. Owens dropped an awful lot of passes. Irvin imposed his will on games while Owens was carrying a Sharpie in his sock and eating popcorn with the cheerleaders.
I was not on the committee when Irvin was a candidate, but my guess is his off the field problems are why it took him three years to get in, although the mandate from the HOF is not to consider issues away from the field like arrests and drug use. In the case of Owens and others who were considered distractions, the locker room is considered an extension of the field.
All that being said, I think Owens is a HOFer. There’s some great players who had to exhibit patience before they were elected. In my opinion, the case for Owens being a first or second ballot HOFer would have been strengthened if he played on a Super Bowl championship team. Lonk - ( New Window )
I don't think it's fair to claim Irvin imposed his will on games Â
that his personal conduct in the locker room hurt teams when the most contentious issues he had were when he was with a team that went 13-3 and made it to the Super Bowl.
Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.
And btw, every thing he said about Cris Carter is accurate. I've always believed that although there is a lot you can ridicule T.O. about, the one thing you can't say about him is that he lies. He certainly talked too much, but he was consistently pretty honest.
I give TO the slight edge over Irvin, which would put him in the HOF at year two.....
This just was year two. I guess everyone missed his comments last year when he also didn't make the HoF. This is two years in a row that he's been passed over, so for everyone on the thread who has suggested that the voters got their pound of flesh by ensuring that he would not be a first-ballot HoF-er, just note that they've renewed their vows. This is at least slightly beyond a symbolic gesture at this point, IMO.
that his personal conduct in the locker room hurt teams when the most contentious issues he had were when he was with a team that went 13-3 and made it to the Super Bowl.
Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.
The Eagles thing is great because Douglas wasn't even an active player and talked shit to Owens in the training room after going to the media in preseason about T.O.'s holdout. It went down exactly the way it would've went down if it was Michael Irvin in say 92-93.
since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.
Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.
Funny thing was T.O. 100% correct on everything he said about McNabb. Watch that Super Bowl from 2005 and tell me who played their heart out and who got fatigued, played an awful sloppy game. I think McNabb also had a pissy attitude as well when the T.O. takeover happened, it was T.O. getting the Philly love and his name chanted. McNabb seemed jealous.
I love that Super Bowl. Classic Andy Reid, McNabb and the Eagles losing ...again. T.O. is a HOFer. To even consider McNabb a HOF is laughable.
since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.
Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.
So if McNabb doesn't throw up and Brady isn't so damn good, Owens is in the HOF already?
Ridiculous. Owens became a 1st ballot HOFer when he nearly carried his team to a SB win coming off of a broken leg. Myers is a fucking idiot if he shits on Owens for not being a Champion after the legendary performance Owens put up in the SB.
if this was 20 years after and TO was still kept out of Canton I could see the backlash. But it's been once friggin vote. One. TO can wait a few years. He will be ok. Strahan waited. Harry Carson waited. Irvin waited. Most of them wait.
OWens didn't have a perfect career. I think we can all agree on that. Why is this so hard to understand? First ballot should only be reserved for perfect players. Guys that were 100% indispensable. Owens talked his way off of teams not once, not twice not three times...the guy was not perfect. He was a beast. At times he was probably the best WR playing but he had flaws that came with him. HE can wait.
The process is far from perfect. This is not one of the imperfections.
The man had 160 TDs in his career and dominated with a broken leg in the Super Bowl against the defining franchise/team of this era (Pats).
All the attention whoring in the world did not bring enough negatives to the table to keep him off the 1st ballot.
It's an easy choice, but HOF voters once again prove what blowhards they are.
If it was such an easy choice how come TO played on five or six teams?
He's going to get in. I just understand the backlash in making the guy wait a year or two. You act like he's never going to make it Canton based on this vote.
Did TO have a perfect career? Simple question.
who had more impact on his team's overall success? Â
Mark Bavaro or Terrell Owens? The results say Bavaro. If Owens swapped places with Bavaro from 85-90 would the Giants still win 2 super bowls? Can you prove that they would? Is it possible they don't win two super bowls? I think it is, despite how good Owens truly was.
IT's a team sport. Owens doesn't have the hardware that many of the HOF WRs possess. Owens was universally known as a problem in the locker room. A problem in the huddle. his career was far from perfect. He can wait.
first ballot guys should only be perfect players. Jason Taylor shouldn't be a first ballot HOF player. Strahan should have been but the voters mess up sometimes. Taylor wasn't great at the POA. Strahan was.
Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.
You realize there isn't a single perfect player in NFL history right?
According to your post, Jerry Rice is the only WR in NFL history who deserves 1st ballot.
Hell considering his off-the field BS, using your argument you could say that LT isn't first ballot. He certainly wasn't perfect.
5 teams?
He played his last 2 years with the Bills and Bengals respectively. He was past his prime but still decently productive. He really played for 3 teams in his prime. He had some issues with Garcia but tHe only team that he really caused locker room problems with was Philly, and a lot of the players sided with him over McNabb in that ordeal. Hugh Douglas is also a clown.
first ballot guys should only be perfect players. Jason Taylor shouldn't be a first ballot HOF player. Strahan should have been but the voters mess up sometimes. Taylor wasn't great at the POA. Strahan was.
Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.
You keep arguing the point about first ballots, but TO has been kept off two years now. Its no longer a first ballot issue. It's a petulant sportswriter issue...
RE: I don't think it's fair to claim Irvin imposed his will on games Â
Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....
"I hated Cris Carter." lol
Why were you talking to Kenny Hill?
He certainly didn't lack for ego, but can you really call a guy me-first when he played in the Super Bowl with a fractured leg - and played damned well to boot?
I'm sorry, but he should have been a first ballot lock. Enough with the bullshit.
It was a gutsy performance, no doubt, but it doesn't erase all the other things that he was. ME-first guys still want to win. They are not mutually exclusive attributes.
You're right. It doesn't. Phil Simms has better passing stats than 23 QBs who are already in the HOF, plus a SB MVP, and a second ring for a season where he won 10 of the games that season. One would think that would be enough. He ain't in.
Committees that give awards and induct people into HOFs are notoriously personal and inconsistent about it. As human beings usually are.
It's not hard to imagine that Owens' antics rubbed some of those on the committee the wrong way, and he's paying for it now.
BOO FUCKING HOO.
He can get his popcorn ready, love him some him, and try and keep up with his child support payments till he gets in.
Well the absurd thing about all this is that he's being held up next to Cris Carter. Not exactly a Walter Payton Award winner. /(checks wikipedia to be sure.)
I mean except for 1999, when he won the Walter Payton award.
But to be fair, CC is plenty slimey- by his own admission.
I grab TO.
I grab TO.
Gay.
Quote:
First thing he said before getting into more details..
"I hated Cris Carter." lol
Why were you talking to Kenny Hill?
I see him every week
Voters not putting this guy in are idiots.
So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that
And they both had off-field issues, but if you want to nitpick, at least Owens never had drug issues.
I absolutely agree that by every reasonable, meaningful measure, Owens was a much better receiver and overall player than Carter.
I just think the idea that "not having drug issues" should merit special consideration is a bit funny. From a teammate perspective, I think Carter was "better" than Owens despite Carter struggling with drugs and Owens staying clean.
Quote:
Character matters. You can question carters character early in his career, but he turned himself around. Owens will get it at some point, but he was a POS his whole career and now he will see the consequences by waiting a few years to get in. BFD
So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that
I get what you are trying to do, it just doesn't make any sense. If LT was not in the HOF and I was on the thread defending LT and suggesting that he should be in and TO shouldn't, maybe your cute little post would have a point. That's not the case. In fact, I am well aware that TO is the best wr not in the pro bowl and based on his career, he should be. All I am saying is that he made his own bed. The idea that he only fought with mcNabb is ridiculous, he fought with every QB and coach. He was a prick that shun his teammates and coaches and now he can cry about it all he wants. I don't feel bad for him. He will get in.
Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....
This is factually incorrect. If you look at the data in baseball and football (I haven't looked into NBA or NHL Halls of Fame) you will find that players from prior generations are the ones who are over-represented in the Halls of Fame. If anything, it is far, far harder to get in the Halls now than it was in the past.
Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.
Joe Dimaggio didn't make it in to Cooperstown on the first vote. Strahan didn't. Owens will be fine. So will all of die hard supporters. Funny how the guy was a punchline for most of his career and everyone couldn't wait to label the guy a cancer. Now he's a martyr. WTF.
Quote:
...he is correct. He is better than Chris Carter.
Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.
Agreed. Never liked TO as a person. He was and still is a complete a**hole. But he was an exceptional player by any definition and his statistics are HOF worthy compared to others who are in there. He should be in.
...
As far as the comparison to Irvin, just as far as their playing ability, Irvin played on three Super Bowl championship teams. He was a leader and a winner. He had much better hands. Owens dropped an awful lot of passes. Irvin imposed his will on games while Owens was carrying a Sharpie in his sock and eating popcorn with the cheerleaders.
I was not on the committee when Irvin was a candidate, but my guess is his off the field problems are why it took him three years to get in, although the mandate from the HOF is not to consider issues away from the field like arrests and drug use. In the case of Owens and others who were considered distractions, the locker room is considered an extension of the field.
All that being said, I think Owens is a HOFer. There’s some great players who had to exhibit patience before they were elected. In my opinion, the case for Owens being a first or second ballot HOFer would have been strengthened if he played on a Super Bowl championship team.
Lonk - ( New Window )
Actually, Myers mentions that in the article, noted that the Eagles lost so I don't think he's counting that as a plus for TO.
Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.
And btw, every thing he said about Cris Carter is accurate. I've always believed that although there is a lot you can ridicule T.O. about, the one thing you can't say about him is that he lies. He certainly talked too much, but he was consistently pretty honest.
This just was year two. I guess everyone missed his comments last year when he also didn't make the HoF. This is two years in a row that he's been passed over, so for everyone on the thread who has suggested that the voters got their pound of flesh by ensuring that he would not be a first-ballot HoF-er, just note that they've renewed their vows. This is at least slightly beyond a symbolic gesture at this point, IMO.
Owens is a HOFer. If he's not, I have no idea what constitutes one nowadays.
Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.
The Eagles thing is great because Douglas wasn't even an active player and talked shit to Owens in the training room after going to the media in preseason about T.O.'s holdout. It went down exactly the way it would've went down if it was Michael Irvin in say 92-93.
since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.
Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.
I love that Super Bowl. Classic Andy Reid, McNabb and the Eagles losing ...again. T.O. is a HOFer. To even consider McNabb a HOF is laughable.
since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.
Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.
So if McNabb doesn't throw up and Brady isn't so damn good, Owens is in the HOF already?
Ridiculous. Owens became a 1st ballot HOFer when he nearly carried his team to a SB win coming off of a broken leg. Myers is a fucking idiot if he shits on Owens for not being a Champion after the legendary performance Owens put up in the SB.
The process is far from perfect. This is not one of the imperfections.
The man had 160 TDs in his career and dominated with a broken leg in the Super Bowl against the defining franchise/team of this era (Pats).
All the attention whoring in the world did not bring enough negatives to the table to keep him off the 1st ballot.
It's an easy choice, but HOF voters once again prove what blowhards they are.
You have that backwards. Lewis was a criminal because he wasn't a snitch.
The man had 160 TDs in his career and dominated with a broken leg in the Super Bowl against the defining franchise/team of this era (Pats).
All the attention whoring in the world did not bring enough negatives to the table to keep him off the 1st ballot.
It's an easy choice, but HOF voters once again prove what blowhards they are.
If it was such an easy choice how come TO played on five or six teams?
He's going to get in. I just understand the backlash in making the guy wait a year or two. You act like he's never going to make it Canton based on this vote.
Did TO have a perfect career? Simple question.
IT's a team sport. Owens doesn't have the hardware that many of the HOF WRs possess. Owens was universally known as a problem in the locker room. A problem in the huddle. his career was far from perfect. He can wait.
Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.
According to your post, Jerry Rice is the only WR in NFL history who deserves 1st ballot.
Hell considering his off-the field BS, using your argument you could say that LT isn't first ballot. He certainly wasn't perfect.
5 teams?
He played his last 2 years with the Bills and Bengals respectively. He was past his prime but still decently productive. He really played for 3 teams in his prime. He had some issues with Garcia but tHe only team that he really caused locker room problems with was Philly, and a lot of the players sided with him over McNabb in that ordeal. Hugh Douglas is also a clown.
If we only care about perfect players and character is an important factor, then his career is marred by cheating.
Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.
You keep arguing the point about first ballots, but TO has been kept off two years now. Its no longer a first ballot issue. It's a petulant sportswriter issue...
Not to mention Irvin played around a bunch of HOFers his whole career.