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Terrell Owens: I'm better than Chris Carter

Cruzin : 2/17/2017 7:33 am
ďEven you think about guys that have gone and really tried to attack my character and called me a flawed candidate, a guy like Cris Carter. Trust me, Iím better than Cris Carter,Ē Owens said. ďIíll tell him that. He knows that Iím not a fan of him. . . .

ďDonít throw stones when you live in a glass house. He wants me to wait because he had to wait. I did more with less. I was better than Cris Carter. So he shouldnít mention anything about anybody, especially me, about being a flawed candidate when hereís a guy who got released, flunked three drug tests from Philly ó cocaine and alcohol addiction ó and then there was somewhere down the road heís telling guys to ask somebody to be a fall guy. What kind of character is that? So címon man. Címon.Ēk

Lonk - ( New Window )
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It's not just the football HOF,  
Doomster : 2/17/2017 10:23 am : link
it's all of them.....they have become watered down, and it becomes more of a popularity contest than anything else.....

Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....
RE: Was talking to Kenny Hill about this today  
Greg from LI : 2/17/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13364048 Vin R said:
Quote:
First thing he said before getting into more details..

"I hated Cris Carter." lol


Why were you talking to Kenny Hill?
RE: Maybe -- just MAYBE  
Greg from LI : 2/17/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13364095 David B. said:
Quote:
I think that's MORE than appropriate given his notorious status as a locker room cancer and a ME-FIRST, show-boating diva in the ultimate team-sport.


He certainly didn't lack for ego, but can you really call a guy me-first when he played in the Super Bowl with a fractured leg - and played damned well to boot?
If character matters...  
Chris in Philly : 2/17/2017 10:30 am : link
than it should matter consistently. It doesn't. And that's bullshit. And TO IS better than Carter...
I mean...  
arcarsenal : 2/17/2017 10:30 am : link
The guy is 2nd all-time in career receiving yards and 3rd in receiving TD's.

I'm sorry, but he should have been a first ballot lock. Enough with the bullshit.
Sure I can  
David B. : 2/17/2017 10:41 am : link
Quote:
can you really call a guy me-first when he played in the Super Bowl with a fractured leg - and played damned well to boot?


It was a gutsy performance, no doubt, but it doesn't erase all the other things that he was. ME-first guys still want to win. They are not mutually exclusive attributes.
Owens also never needed...  
EricJ : 2/17/2017 10:50 am : link
a "fall guy".
Chris in Philly, you're right  
David B. : 2/17/2017 10:53 am : link
Quote:
than it should matter consistently. It doesn't.


You're right. It doesn't. Phil Simms has better passing stats than 23 QBs who are already in the HOF, plus a SB MVP, and a second ring for a season where he won 10 of the games that season. One would think that would be enough. He ain't in.

Committees that give awards and induct people into HOFs are notoriously personal and inconsistent about it. As human beings usually are.

It's not hard to imagine that Owens' antics rubbed some of those on the committee the wrong way, and he's paying for it now.

BOO FUCKING HOO.

He can get his popcorn ready, love him some him, and try and keep up with his child support payments till he gets in.



RE: If character matters...  
NoPeanutz : 2/17/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13364112 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
than it should matter consistently. It doesn't. And that's bullshit. And TO IS better than Carter...

Well the absurd thing about all this is that he's being held up next to Cris Carter. Not exactly a Walter Payton Award winner. /(checks wikipedia to be sure.)
I mean except for 1999, when he won the Walter Payton award.
But to be fair, CC is plenty slimey- by his own admission.
Right now would you take a 23-year-old TO  
Beezer : 2/17/2017 11:15 am : link
or a 23-year-old CC as your WR choice.

I grab TO.
RE: Right now would you take a 23-year-old TO  
Brown Recluse : 2/17/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13364202 Beezer said:
Quote:
or a 23-year-old CC as your WR choice.

I grab TO.


Gay.
With the exception of that highly publicized matter with McNabb  
jcn56 : 2/17/2017 11:19 am : link
I don't recall any of TO's teammates disliking him, at least not publicly.
RE: RE: Was talking to Kenny Hill about this today  
Vin R : 2/17/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13364106 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13364048 Vin R said:


Quote:


First thing he said before getting into more details..

"I hated Cris Carter." lol



Why were you talking to Kenny Hill?


I see him every week
Is TO gay?  
Beezer : 2/17/2017 11:21 am : link
I did not know that.
TO was better  
KWALL2 : 2/17/2017 11:25 am : link
His peak was much better. He dominated the NFL. That should get you in.

Voters not putting this guy in are idiots.
Can anyone really argue that point?  
Mike from Ohio : 2/17/2017 11:44 am : link
Of course he was better than Chris Carter. By a pretty substantial margin.
RE: I don't know why people complain about HOF voting.  
Ned In Atlanta : 2/17/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13363893 Keith said:
Quote:
Character matters. You can question carters character early in his career, but he turned himself around. Owens will get it at some point, but he was a POS his whole career and now he will see the consequences by waiting a few years to get in. BFD



So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that
RE: I would agree with him  
santacruzom : 2/17/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13363882 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Owens' numbers beat Carter's career easily, and in fewer games played. He was just a better player.

And they both had off-field issues, but if you want to nitpick, at least Owens never had drug issues.


I absolutely agree that by every reasonable, meaningful measure, Owens was a much better receiver and overall player than Carter.

I just think the idea that "not having drug issues" should merit special consideration is a bit funny. From a teammate perspective, I think Carter was "better" than Owens despite Carter struggling with drugs and Owens staying clean.
RE: RE: I don't know why people complain about HOF voting.  
Keith : 2/17/2017 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13364234 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 13363893 Keith said:


Quote:


Character matters. You can question carters character early in his career, but he turned himself around. Owens will get it at some point, but he was a POS his whole career and now he will see the consequences by waiting a few years to get in. BFD




So I guess LT shouldn't be in, right? Oh wait he was a Giant so we ignore that


I get what you are trying to do, it just doesn't make any sense. If LT was not in the HOF and I was on the thread defending LT and suggesting that he should be in and TO shouldn't, maybe your cute little post would have a point. That's not the case. In fact, I am well aware that TO is the best wr not in the pro bowl and based on his career, he should be. All I am saying is that he made his own bed. The idea that he only fought with mcNabb is ridiculous, he fought with every QB and coach. He was a prick that shun his teammates and coaches and now he can cry about it all he wants. I don't feel bad for him. He will get in.
You really can't argue with him  
Matt M. : 2/17/2017 2:29 pm : link
His production far exceeds Carter and in less games. Then off the field, while he has had some issues, Carter had more and more serious ones. To me, as much as I didn't like him, Owens should be a no-brainer for the HoF. He is one of the top 5 WRs to have played in my lifetime, in my opinion.
RE: It's not just the football HOF,  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/17/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13364099 Doomster said:
Quote:
it's all of them.....they have become watered down, and it becomes more of a popularity contest than anything else.....

Has there ever been a year when no one was voted in? You will get a year where there are nothing but fringe players, who have missed on successive years, and get voted in because they are the best of the bunch....then, the next year, when a better player comes up for nomination and doesn't get in, the fireworks start....


This is factually incorrect. If you look at the data in baseball and football (I haven't looked into NBA or NHL Halls of Fame) you will find that players from prior generations are the ones who are over-represented in the Halls of Fame. If anything, it is far, far harder to get in the Halls now than it was in the past.
Terrell Owens: I'm better than Chris Carter...  
Torrag : 2/17/2017 3:45 pm : link
...he is correct. He is better than Chris Carter.
RE: Terrell Owens: I'm better than Chris Carter...  
Section331 : 2/17/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13364498 Torrag said:
Quote:
...he is correct. He is better than Chris Carter.


Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.
there have been many more injustices  
djm : 2/17/2017 4:44 pm : link
than Owens not making it to Canton on his first go around. I am shocked at the outcry about this guy. He going to get in...relax. OWens was porbably the biggest pain in the ass, diva WR of ALL TIME. He was a pain in the ass in the huddle, locker room and sidelines for every team he played for. He's going to get in and he should get in but it's not a crime against humanity when any great player gets shut down on the first try into the HOF, let alone a guy like Owens.

Joe Dimaggio didn't make it in to Cooperstown on the first vote. Strahan didn't. Owens will be fine. So will all of die hard supporters. Funny how the guy was a punchline for most of his career and everyone couldn't wait to label the guy a cancer. Now he's a martyr. WTF.
RE: RE: Terrell Owens: I'm better than Chris Carter...  
Brick72 : 2/17/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13364548 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13364498 Torrag said:
Quote:
...he is correct. He is better than Chris Carter.

Ha ha, I hopped on this thread to say the exact same thing. I wasn't a fan of TO's antics, but he was a great player, and I think him getting snubbed for the HOF is a joke. Some writers said they didn't vote for him because he was too much of a distraction. Well, this distraction played a SB on a broken leg, and the Pats still couldn't cover him.

Agreed. Never liked TO as a person. He was and still is a complete a**hole. But he was an exceptional player by any definition and his statistics are HOF worthy compared to others who are in there. He should be in.
Gary Myers on TO vs Michael Irvin  
Cruzin : 2/20/2017 7:09 am : link
I think I know what a Hall of Famer looks like. T.O. will be in the Hall of Fame. Just because he didnít get into the HOF the first or second year doesnít mean the process needs to be overhauled. Michael Irvin didnít get in the HOF until his third year and I could easily make a case he was a better player than T.O. For sure, if I had a choice of having one of them on my team, I would take Irvin. Not even close in my mind.

...

As far as the comparison to Irvin, just as far as their playing ability, Irvin played on three Super Bowl championship teams. He was a leader and a winner. He had much better hands. Owens dropped an awful lot of passes. Irvin imposed his will on games while Owens was carrying a Sharpie in his sock and eating popcorn with the cheerleaders.

I was not on the committee when Irvin was a candidate, but my guess is his off the field problems are why it took him three years to get in, although the mandate from the HOF is not to consider issues away from the field like arrests and drug use. In the case of Owens and others who were considered distractions, the locker room is considered an extension of the field.

All that being said, I think Owens is a HOFer. Thereís some great players who had to exhibit patience before they were elected. In my opinion, the case for Owens being a first or second ballot HOFer would have been strengthened if he played on a Super Bowl championship team.

Lonk - ( New Window )
I don't think it's fair to claim Irvin imposed his will on games  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/20/2017 9:09 am : link
And TO didn't. TO absolutely took over games. Did Myers not see him play in the super bowl on one ankle?
RE: I don't think it's fair to claim Irvin imposed his will on games  
Cruzin : 2/20/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13365587 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And TO didn't. TO absolutely took over games. Did Myers not see him play in the super bowl on one ankle?


Actually, Myers mentions that in the article, noted that the Eagles lost so I don't think he's counting that as a plus for TO.
Irvin is a good comp  
WideRight : 2/20/2017 9:33 am : link
I give TO the slight edge over Irvin, which would put him in the HOF at year two.....
I just don't understand the logic of saying  
eclipz928 : 2/20/2017 9:41 am : link
that his personal conduct in the locker room hurt teams when the most contentious issues he had were when he was with a team that went 13-3 and made it to the Super Bowl.

Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.

And btw, every thing he said about Cris Carter is accurate. I've always believed that although there is a lot you can ridicule T.O. about, the one thing you can't say about him is that he lies. He certainly talked too much, but he was consistently pretty honest.
RE: Irvin is a good comp  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/20/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13365606 WideRight said:
Quote:
I give TO the slight edge over Irvin, which would put him in the HOF at year two.....

This just was year two. I guess everyone missed his comments last year when he also didn't make the HoF. This is two years in a row that he's been passed over, so for everyone on the thread who has suggested that the voters got their pound of flesh by ensuring that he would not be a first-ballot HoF-er, just note that they've renewed their vows. This is at least slightly beyond a symbolic gesture at this point, IMO.
Funny. TO was at times an ass.  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/20/2017 3:10 pm : link
Carter is always an ass. TO should be in. Some of the voters are being dishonest dicks
He's not wrong  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/20/2017 3:17 pm : link
.

Owens is a HOFer. If he's not, I have no idea what constitutes one nowadays.
RE: I just don't understand the logic of saying  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 2/20/2017 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13365611 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
that his personal conduct in the locker room hurt teams when the most contentious issues he had were when he was with a team that went 13-3 and made it to the Super Bowl.

Some times I question if it's even a matter of fact that TO was a locker room cancer. He's criticized Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo publicly while he was playing with them, and he had the scuffle with Hugh Douglas - but I haven't heard much about him causing any other issues with any of his other teammates.


The Eagles thing is great because Douglas wasn't even an active player and talked shit to Owens in the training room after going to the media in preseason about T.O.'s holdout. It went down exactly the way it would've went down if it was Michael Irvin in say 92-93.
I've reserved judgement  
Cruzin : 2/20/2017 9:33 pm : link

since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.

Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.
Hahaha...  
Route 9 : 2/21/2017 1:25 am : link
Funny thing was T.O. 100% correct on everything he said about McNabb. Watch that Super Bowl from 2005 and tell me who played their heart out and who got fatigued, played an awful sloppy game. I think McNabb also had a pissy attitude as well when the T.O. takeover happened, it was T.O. getting the Philly love and his name chanted. McNabb seemed jealous.

I love that Super Bowl. Classic Andy Reid, McNabb and the Eagles losing ...again. T.O. is a HOFer. To even consider McNabb a HOF is laughable.
I can't really compare the two guys until T.O.  
Jimmy Googs : 2/21/2017 7:23 am : link
becomes a mentor to OBJ...
RE: I've reserved judgement  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/21/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13366089 Cruzin said:
Quote:

since I am tainted against TO because he played for SF and the Eagles but the more I hear that the locker room is an extension of the field I can't actually disagree with him having to wait 3 years to get in.

Lord knows I have no love for Gary Myers but he actually makes sense here. TO will have to wait, he was a bad influence to his teammates. His talent justifies his place in NFL history but other tangibles make it equally justifiable to keep him waiting.


So if McNabb doesn't throw up and Brady isn't so damn good, Owens is in the HOF already?

Ridiculous. Owens became a 1st ballot HOFer when he nearly carried his team to a SB win coming off of a broken leg. Myers is a fucking idiot if he shits on Owens for not being a Champion after the legendary performance Owens put up in the SB.
again  
djm : 2/21/2017 9:48 am : link
if this was 20 years after and TO was still kept out of Canton I could see the backlash. But it's been once friggin vote. One. TO can wait a few years. He will be ok. Strahan waited. Harry Carson waited. Irvin waited. Most of them wait.
Osi  
djm : 2/21/2017 9:50 am : link
OWens didn't have a perfect career. I think we can all agree on that. Why is this so hard to understand? First ballot should only be reserved for perfect players. Guys that were 100% indispensable. Owens talked his way off of teams not once, not twice not three times...the guy was not perfect. He was a beast. At times he was probably the best WR playing but he had flaws that came with him. HE can wait.

The process is far from perfect. This is not one of the imperfections.
I'm sorry  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/21/2017 10:01 am : link
but I feel like this is open and shut.

The man had 160 TDs in his career and dominated with a broken leg in the Super Bowl against the defining franchise/team of this era (Pats).

All the attention whoring in the world did not bring enough negatives to the table to keep him off the 1st ballot.

It's an easy choice, but HOF voters once again prove what blowhards they are.
RE: RE: Yeah but the police isn't voting for the HOF.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/21/2017 10:19 am : link
In comment 13364014 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
Lewis isn't a criminal. He's a snitch.

You have that backwards. Lewis was a criminal because he wasn't a snitch.
RE: I'm sorry  
djm : 2/21/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13366360 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
but I feel like this is open and shut.

The man had 160 TDs in his career and dominated with a broken leg in the Super Bowl against the defining franchise/team of this era (Pats).

All the attention whoring in the world did not bring enough negatives to the table to keep him off the 1st ballot.

It's an easy choice, but HOF voters once again prove what blowhards they are.


If it was such an easy choice how come TO played on five or six teams?

He's going to get in. I just understand the backlash in making the guy wait a year or two. You act like he's never going to make it Canton based on this vote.

Did TO have a perfect career? Simple question.
who had more impact on his team's overall success?  
djm : 2/21/2017 10:47 am : link
Mark Bavaro or Terrell Owens? The results say Bavaro. If Owens swapped places with Bavaro from 85-90 would the Giants still win 2 super bowls? Can you prove that they would? Is it possible they don't win two super bowls? I think it is, despite how good Owens truly was.

IT's a team sport. Owens doesn't have the hardware that many of the HOF WRs possess. Owens was universally known as a problem in the locker room. A problem in the huddle. his career was far from perfect. He can wait.
ill say it again  
djm : 2/21/2017 10:52 am : link
first ballot guys should only be perfect players. Jason Taylor shouldn't be a first ballot HOF player. Strahan should have been but the voters mess up sometimes. Taylor wasn't great at the POA. Strahan was.

Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.
perfect player?  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/21/2017 10:58 am : link
You realize there isn't a single perfect player in NFL history right?

According to your post, Jerry Rice is the only WR in NFL history who deserves 1st ballot.

Hell considering his off-the field BS, using your argument you could say that LT isn't first ballot. He certainly wasn't perfect.

5 teams?

He played his last 2 years with the Bills and Bengals respectively. He was past his prime but still decently productive. He really played for 3 teams in his prime. He had some issues with Garcia but tHe only team that he really caused locker room problems with was Philly, and a lot of the players sided with him over McNabb in that ordeal. Hugh Douglas is also a clown.
Jerry Rice  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/21/2017 11:01 am : link
should be thrown out of the Hall of Fame for admitting to using stickum based on this criteria.

If we only care about perfect players and character is an important factor, then his career is marred by cheating.
RE: ill say it again  
Chris in Philly : 2/21/2017 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13366430 djm said:
Quote:
first ballot guys should only be perfect players. Jason Taylor shouldn't be a first ballot HOF player. Strahan should have been but the voters mess up sometimes. Taylor wasn't great at the POA. Strahan was.

Owens was a gifted WR. A true stud at the position. But he was batshit crazy and at times this impacted his teams in a negative fashion. And he seemed to relish this act. HE can wait.


You keep arguing the point about first ballots, but TO has been kept off two years now. Its no longer a first ballot issue. It's a petulant sportswriter issue...
RE: I don't think it's fair to claim Irvin imposed his will on games  
JOrthman : 2/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13365587 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And TO didn't. TO absolutely took over games. Did Myers not see him play in the super bowl on one ankle?


Not to mention Irvin played around a bunch of HOFers his whole career.
Well played TO  
Mad Mike : 2/27/2017 3:36 pm : link
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